1. Should we keep passing more and more laws until nothing bad ever happens and life is perfect?
2. Should we realize that life will always carry some risk, bad things are going to happen, and life will never be perfect?
Keeping the necessary trade-offs in mind, I'll gladly opt for #2.
Wonder if you will feel that way if one of your loved is gunned down senselessly in a trade off for gun rights.
I figured that response was coming. As soon as a loved one is gunned down, I guess we'll find out. Though the odds of that happening in my lifetime is close to zero.
1. Should we keep passing more and more laws until nothing bad ever happens and life is perfect?
2. Should we realize that life will always carry some risk, bad things are going to happen, and life will never be perfect?
Keeping the necessary trade-offs in mind, I'll gladly opt for #2.
Wonder if you will feel that way if one of your loved is gunned down senselessly in a trade off for gun rights.
I figured that response was coming. As soon as a loved one is gunned down, I guess we'll find out. Though the odds of that happening in my lifetime is close to zero.
I don't know you oak, but that comes across as just so cold and callous. The odds for the 294 people killed in mass shootings so far this year were the same. Until they were shot dead.
It is a sad day here in Oregon.
The gun thing has run its course, and a lot more people will get killed whether guns are allowed or not, but we will evolve away from guns at some point. Laws or no, this will sort itself out.
Go ahead, make your day.
1. Should we keep passing more and more laws until nothing bad ever happens and life is perfect?
2. Should we realize that life will always carry some risk, bad things are going to happen, and life will never be perfect?
Keeping the necessary trade-offs in mind, I'll gladly opt for #2.
Wonder if you will feel that way if one of your loved is gunned down senselessly in a trade off for gun rights.
I figured that response was coming. As soon as a loved one is gunned down, I guess we'll find out. Though the odds of that happening in my lifetime is close to zero.
I'm sure this is how these folks felt as well, right up until 10:38am yesterday.
Never mind that though, all Obama knows is that we should go along with his gun control agenda.
More mass shootings in seven years of his Presidency than any other time period prior. I'd say that's a failed agenda.
Mass knifings are way down though, as are mass chokings and mass stonings. I don't recall hardly any of those happening during his presidency so he must be doing something right, right?
Alloak, are you really incapable of determining how you'd feel in that situation? You can't picture your child, spouse, family or friend being shot up in a mall as they shop and how'd you react? Why don't you know? Just curious. Does the pic above clear it up for you a little? Since the odds are small that it happens to YOU, you don't care. Knowing it is bound to happen to others, and you still don't worry about it. That says a lot about your character. Unless you are trolling. And if you are, you are a darn good one. A clever one too.
[Edited on 10/2/2015 by BoytonBrother]
Gun control agenda.......if that's not trolling then I don't know what is. Obama has done jack sh*t on gun control. What country are you living in? You care more about making Obama look bad than the actual topic of the post.
Obviously it's my opinion BigV. The only reason to point out something so obvious is to pick some sort of argument. No thanks. I'd rather figure out a way to prevent irresponsible people from getting guns. You may say it's impossible, but I say it's not. And it's a cause worth fighting for. Those who vote to do nothing are scum and a big part of the problem.
"Those who vote to do nothing are scum and a big part of the problem."
You write things like this that are obviously "Your opinion" and then turn your nose up at what you perceive to be an argument? Please,.....everyone here knows where you stand on this issue; you really don't believe you are going to change anyone's mind here do you?
"I'd rather figure out a way to prevent irresponsible people from getting guns"
Let me guess.......mmmmm, More Laws?
If you know where I stand, you'd know that I support DMV type procedures for gun ownership. 8 hours of classroom training, must pass written exam, must pass physical demonstration to prove you know how to use it, psychological exams that our police use on recruits, license to own, license to carry.....all of which must be renewed every 4 years. Ban assault weapons, stop gun show loop hole. I don't know if these are new ideas or ideas that aren't being enforced. But this is what I propose. No it won't prevent all but I think it will stop some, which makes it all worth it....IMO. I'm certain that doing something is better than doing nothing.
Felons will get guns no matter what but these people aren't felons.
Was he a.muslim following the koran.
If you know where I stand, you'd know that I support DMV type procedures for gun ownership. 8 hours of classroom training, must pass written exam, must pass physical demonstration to prove you know how to use it, psychological exams that our police use on recruits, license to own, license to carry.....all of which must be renewed every 4 years. Ban assault weapons, stop gun show loop hole. I don't know if these are new ideas or ideas that aren't being enforced. But this is what I propose. No it won't prevent all but I think it will stop some, which makes it all worth it....IMO. I'm certain that doing something is better than doing nothing.
Felons will get guns no matter what but these people aren't felons.
Yes Felons will. And when an idiot acquires a gun illegally, walks into a mall and shoots dozens of innocents, what law will you call for next?
How does "more laws won't do anything" square up with having laws in the first place? On this or any other matter?
If you know where I stand, you'd know that I support DMV type procedures for gun ownership. 8 hours of classroom training, must pass written exam, must pass physical demonstration to prove you know how to use it, psychological exams that our police use on recruits, license to own, license to carry.....all of which must be renewed every 4 years. Ban assault weapons, stop gun show loop hole.
The last time the FBI tried to count, they estimated a count of over 500 million guns (handgun and long gun combined) in the U.S.
Those may be noble ideas you have, but perhaps it's just too late to get the horse back in the barn.
BigV, like I said.....it won't prevent all, but I believe it will prevent some, which makes it all worth it. Sadly, many of these mass shootings (probably most), weren't acquired illegally. And as Bhawk pointed out, why are some so opposed to gun laws but ok with all the strict driving laws?
Bhawk, those measures were once discussed by a panel of psychologists that believe these types of laws will create a much-needed passage of time to get your hands on the gun, which could reduce the crimes of passion element. Since most of these shooters are suburban dwellers with no street knowledge, getting a gun illegally is a bit time consuming and dangerous. It might deter a would-be shooter as time passes, versus a clean record getting one instantly.
Bhawk, those measures were once discussed by a panel of psychologists that believe these types of laws will create a much-needed passage of time to get your hands on the gun, which could reduce the crimes of passion element. Since most of these shooters are suburban dwellers with no street knowledge, getting a gun illegally is a bit time consuming and dangerous. It might deter a would-be shooter as time passes, versus a clean record getting one instantly.
Agree that the suggestions you made are all valid. What I can't reconcile is that the families of these guys are not only giving them guns as presents, but taking them target shooting. Unlike the Klebolds and Harrises who profess not to know what their kids were up to, recent families KNOW their kids have mental health problems and give them guns and take them to target practice. The Oregon shooter's mother is quoted as saying her son was mentally ill and had been as far back as high school. So, she gives him guns?????
13 kids are dead, and you care most about tearing down the President. You offer nothing except vitriole. Quite sad to see.
13 kids are dead and the president can't wait 24 hours to attack his opponents and promote his political agenda. Quite sad to see,
"This is a political choice that we make to allow this to happen every few months in America. We collectively are answerable to those families who lose their loves ones because of our inaction. When Americans are killed in mine disasters, we work to make mines safer. When Americans are killed in floods and hurricanes, we make communities safer. When roads are unsafe, we fix them to reduce auto fatalities. We have seatbelt laws because we know it safes lives. The notion that gun violence is somehow different—that our freedom and our Constitution prohibits any modest regulation of how we use a deadly weapon, when there are law-abiding gun owners all across the country who could hunt, and protect their families, and do everything they do under such regulations—doesn't make sense." —President Obama on the shooting in Roseburg, Oregon:
How about the 9 people that died in Chicago over the weekend that no one cares about? Did we make a political choice to not care about that because it ight make he or his ally look bad?
Those who elect to do nothing in the name of preservation of the 2nd amendment, are a major part of the problem.
I don't get it. What do you mean do nothing? Oregon has extremely strict gun control laws. The school was a gun free zone. What exactly should be done? Do you want all guns confiscated and destroyed? What do you want done? Do you want the police to go onto the streets and confiscate illegal guns? New York was doing that very effectively and gun crime dropped exponentially. But the DiBalsio and his radical allies demanded it stop. Now gun crime is rising.
The politicians are dispicable, but it's the citizens that really deserve part of the blame for accepting it. Too many people agree with Trump, the NRA, and the Tea Partiers. They are fooled into believing the 2nd amendment brainwash campaign. We have tough laws for everything, but the NRA has done a great job at communicating their propaganda to the weak-minded sheep who stock the shed with guns and ammo just to feel tough and manly, making them believe it's about rights, rather than protecting innocent Americans. Why don't these same pro-gun people rally against the DMV? Isn't it the same "violation of your rights"? Please. You are being duped - the gun manufactures want profit, and they have you fools believing it's about your rights.
Again this is Oregon with extremely stringent gun cotrol laws. What do you want to see happen? A total ban on all guns?
If you know where I stand, you'd know that I support DMV type procedures for gun ownership. 8 hours of classroom training, must pass written exam, must pass physical demonstration to prove you know how to use it, psychological exams that our police use on recruits, license to own, license to carry.....all of which must be renewed every 4 years. Ban assault weapons, stop gun show loop hole. I don't know if these are new ideas or ideas that aren't being enforced. But this is what I propose. No it won't prevent all but I think it will stop some, which makes it all worth it....IMO. I'm certain that doing something is better than doing nothing.
Felons will get guns no matter what but these people aren't felons.
I favor those things as well. Don't get me wrong. What I can't stand is Obama and allies pretending that if only these things happen these things will magically end. It's nonsense. Can you name one single mass shooting that would have been avoided with even more stringent gun laws? Did these mentally ill shooters walk into a shop and legally buy these guns such that if they were psychologically tested they would not have been allowed to purchase? Maybe so but prove it. Demonstrate something. It reminds me of back in the 80's when Congress pretended it was anti-crime by taking things that were crimes under state law in all 50 states and making them federal crimes. It didn't do ONE thing to stop any of those crimes but it let the COngressman pretend they were actually doing something.
Again this is Oregon with extremely stringent gun cotrol laws. What do you want to see happen? A total ban on all guns?
Extremely stringent? Where are you getting that from? Does not square with what I have been able to find out.
I figured that response was coming. As soon as a loved one is gunned down, I guess we'll find out. Though the odds of that happening in my lifetime is close to zero.
Isn't that an argument against gun ownership? Why do folks need guns to be safe if the odds of loved ones getting gunned down are so low?
What I can't stand is Obama and allies pretending that if only these things happen these things will magically end. It's nonsense. Can you name one single mass shooting that would have been avoided with even more stringent gun laws? Did these mentally ill shooters walk into a shop and legally buy these guns such that if they were psychologically tested they would not have been allowed to purchase? Maybe so but prove it. Demonstrate something. It reminds me of back in the 80's when Congress pretended it was anti-crime by taking things that were crimes under state law in all 50 states and making them federal crimes. It didn't do ONE thing to stop any of those crimes but it let the COngressman pretend they were actually doing something.
Yeah. That's exactly what Obama said. "Gun deaths will magically stop if we make more gun laws."
What a load of pig $hit.
Does it really matter what the gun laws are in NYC if the criminals are buying the guns at gun shows in Virginia and selling them in New York? There have been many proposals that would make it harder for criminals to get guns. I also support a national, even a military effort, to find and arrest every individual who has an unregistered, illegal weapon. If we spent the same type of resources on getting these illegal guns off the streets as we spend on terrorism I believe we would see gun deaths minimized.
"The Second Amendment has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud', on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."
-Warren Burger, Former Chief Justice of The Supreme Court. Quote is from 1991.
What I can't stand is Obama and allies pretending that if only these things happen these things will magically end. It's nonsense. Can you name one single mass shooting that would have been avoided with even more stringent gun laws? Did these mentally ill shooters walk into a shop and legally buy these guns such that if they were psychologically tested they would not have been allowed to purchase? Maybe so but prove it. Demonstrate something. It reminds me of back in the 80's when Congress pretended it was anti-crime by taking things that were crimes under state law in all 50 states and making them federal crimes. It didn't do ONE thing to stop any of those crimes but it let the COngressman pretend they were actually doing something.
What I can't stand is all these politicians since the 1920's who pretend that car accidents are going to magically end. It's nonsense. Can you name one single car accident that would've been avoided with tougher driving laws?
I agree about NYC. It was foolish of them. It doesn't change anything about what I said.
Why are you outraged at proposed gun laws in the wake of our children being massacred but have no issue with our driving laws? Why are you focusing on Obama's reaction instead of what to do about our children being murdered? I'm disgusted as well by Obama's lack of action. But he's 100% right about what he says. But since all he does is talk about it, he's part of the problem too. Enough is enough. Somebody effing do something.
You continue to harp on the fact that it won't prevent them all. But I've said a million times that it could very likely stop some, which makes it worth it, unless you are alloak and don't care since the odds of it happening to HIM are low.
The ones who should be advocating the most for change are the pro-gun crowd. There a bunch of irresponsible parents and children who are taking advantage of the object and its laws. If you value the 2nd amendment and the object, shouldn't you want to ensure that the respect for the hobby is always maintained and preserved? Why do they seem to accept these mass shooters who tarnish the hobby and the object?
The school was a gun free zone.
No, it wasn't. As a matter of fact, there were people on campus at the time with concealed carry permitted guns on their person.
But, yeah, we get it Doug. Obama, leftists, marxists, blah blah blah.
Apparently the guns were obtained legally. Oregon does not, apparently, have very strict gun laws.
WASHINGTON -- Firearms used on Thursday in a mass shooting at a small community college in Oregon were purchased legally, authorities said on Friday. Some weapons may have been purchased by family members.
Although authorities did not name the gunman during Friday's press conference, he has widely been identified as Chris Harper Mercer.
Thursday's shooting at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg left 10 people dead and seven wounded. Mercer, 26, died after a shootout with law enforcement.
Thirteen weapons were recovered, six from the school and seven from Mercer's residence, said Celinez Nunez, assistant special agent in charge at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives.
She confirmed that all of the weapons were purchased legally and traced to a federal firearms dealer. Seven of the weapons were purchased by the shooter or his family members in the last three years, Nunez said. Law enforcement also recovered a jacket with steel plates and additional magazines.
According to the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, the weapons recovered were pistols, rifles and a shotgun. Federal law prohibits felons, drug users, domestic violence misdemeanants and people involuntarily committed to mental institutions from possessing firearms.
Oregon recently tightened gun restrictions in the wake of other shootings in the state. In 2012, a gunman stormed a shopping center in Portland with a stolen AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, killing two people before taking his own life. Family members of those victims backed a measure that went into effect in August, requiring background checks on most private gun sales.
"If we want to keep our kids, schools and communities safe, we must make it harder for dangerous people to get guns," Oregon Gov. Kate Brown (D) said when she signed that law.
Gun control advocates contend that Oregon still has a number of loopholes that make it easy for would-be attackers to obtain weapons. The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence last year awarded the state a "D+" because it does not impose a waiting period prior to firearm purchases, prohibit assault weapons or "significantly" regulate gun dealers, among other issues. Lindsay Nichols, a senior attorney for the organization, told the New Republic on Friday that he would ramp that up to a "C" because of the new background check law.
Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, said in 2012 that "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." His point is often repeated by gun control opponents. But as Think Progress reported, Oregon allows concealed carry on postsecondary campuses and there was at least one armed civilian on campus at the time of the shooting.
Gun control advocates have already pointed to the Umpqua Community College shooting as another reason why America needs to ramp up firearm restrictions. According to Everytown for Gun Safety, which advocates for legislative measures to reduce gun violence, this was the 45th shooting on a school campus this year.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oregon-shooting-weapons_560ec25be4b0dd85030bd1f9?2md9529
13 kids are dead, and you care most about tearing down the President. You offer nothing except vitriole. Quite sad to see.
13 kids are dead and the president can't wait 24 hours to attack his opponents and promote his political agenda. Quite sad to see,
He didn't "attack" any of his "opponents," he took a thinly veiled swipe at the NRA.
"Like all extreme organizations of both the right and left, the NRA sees no middle ground. ANY regulation or control of firearms is opposed by them and demagogued to the fascists wanting to disarm you. That is nonsense. It is also why police organizations have turned against the NRA."
-dougrhon, 2/26/09
Keep on keepin' it fair, old buddy.
But, if you think I'm being unfair to you, please point out where he attacked his opponents...
Statement by the President on the Shootings at Umpqua Community College, Roseburg, Oregon
James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
6:22 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: There’s been another mass shooting in America -- this time, in a community college in Oregon.
That means there are more American families -- moms, dads, children -- whose lives have been changed forever. That means there’s another community stunned with grief, and communities across the country forced to relieve their own anguish, and parents across the country who are scared because they know it might have been their families or their children.
I’ve been to Roseburg, Oregon. There are really good people there. I want to thank all the first responders whose bravery likely saved some lives today. Federal law enforcement has been on the scene in a supporting role, and we’ve offered to stay and help as much as Roseburg needs, for as long as they need.
In the coming days, we’ll learn about the victims -- young men and women who were studying and learning and working hard, their eyes set on the future, their dreams on what they could make of their lives. And America will wrap everyone who’s grieving with our prayers and our love.
But as I said just a few months ago, and I said a few months before that, and I said each time we see one of these mass shootings, our thoughts and prayers are not enough. It’s not enough. It does not capture the heartache and grief and anger that we should feel. And it does nothing to prevent this carnage from being inflicted someplace else in America -- next week, or a couple of months from now.
We don't yet know why this individual did what he did. And it's fair to say that anybody who does this has a sickness in their minds, regardless of what they think their motivations may be. But we are not the only country on Earth that has people with mental illnesses or want to do harm to other people. We are the only advanced country on Earth that sees these kinds of mass shootings every few months.
Earlier this year, I answered a question in an interview by saying, “The United States of America is the one advanced nation on Earth in which we do not have sufficient common-sense gun-safety laws -- even in the face of repeated mass killings.” And later that day, there was a mass shooting at a movie theater in Lafayette, Louisiana. That day! Somehow this has become routine. The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium ends up being routine. The conversation in the aftermath of it. We've become numb to this.
We talked about this after Columbine and Blacksburg, after Tucson, after Newtown, after Aurora, after Charleston. It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun.
And what’s become routine, of course, is the response of those who oppose any kind of common-sense gun legislation. Right now, I can imagine the press releases being cranked out: We need more guns, they’ll argue. Fewer gun safety laws.
Does anybody really believe that? There are scores of responsible gun owners in this country --they know that's not true. We know because of the polling that says the majority of Americans understand we should be changing these laws -- including the majority of responsible, law-abiding gun owners.
There is a gun for roughly every man, woman, and child in America. So how can you, with a straight face, make the argument that more guns will make us safer? We know that states with the most gun laws tend to have the fewest gun deaths. So the notion that gun laws don't work, or just will make it harder for law-abiding citizens and criminals will still get their guns is not borne out by the evidence.
We know that other countries, in response to one mass shooting, have been able to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings. Friends of ours, allies of ours -- Great Britain, Australia, countries like ours. So we know there are ways to prevent it.
And, of course, what’s also routine is that somebody, somewhere will comment and say, Obama politicized this issue. Well, this is something we should politicize. It is relevant to our common life together, to the body politic. I would ask news organizations -- because I won't put these facts forward -- have news organizations tally up the number of Americans who’ve been killed through terrorist attacks over the last decade and the number of Americans who’ve been killed by gun violence, and post those side-by-side on your news reports. This won't be information coming from me; it will be coming from you. We spend over a trillion dollars, and pass countless laws, and devote entire agencies to preventing terrorist attacks on our soil, and rightfully so. And yet, we have a Congress that explicitly blocks us from even collecting data on how we could potentially reduce gun deaths. How can that be?
This is a political choice that we make to allow this to happen every few months in America. We collectively are answerable to those families who lose their loved ones because of our inaction. When Americans are killed in mine disasters, we work to make mines safer. When Americans are killed in floods and hurricanes, we make communities safer. When roads are unsafe, we fix them to reduce auto fatalities. We have seatbelt laws because we know it saves lives. So the notion that gun violence is somehow different, that our freedom and our Constitution prohibits any modest regulation of how we use a deadly weapon, when there are law-abiding gun owners all across the country who could hunt and protect their families and do everything they do under such regulations doesn’t make sense.
So, tonight, as those of us who are lucky enough to hug our kids a little closer are thinking about the families who aren't so fortunate, I’d ask the American people to think about how they can get our government to change these laws, and to save lives, and to let young people grow up. And that will require a change of politics on this issue. And it will require that the American people, individually, whether you are a Democrat or a Republican or an independent, when you decide to vote for somebody, are making a determination as to whether this cause of continuing death for innocent people should be a relevant factor in your decision. If you think this is a problem, then you should expect your elected officials to reflect your views.
And I would particularly ask America’s gun owners -- who are using those guns properly, safely, to hunt, for sport, for protecting their families -- to think about whether your views are properly being represented by the organization that suggests it's speaking for you.
And each time this happens I'm going to bring this up. Each time this happens I am going to say that we can actually do something about it, but we're going to have to change our laws. And this is not something I can do by myself. I've got to have a Congress and I've got to have state legislatures and governors who are willing to work with me on this.
I hope and pray that I don't have to come out again during my tenure as President to offer my condolences to families in these circumstances. But based on my experience as President, I can't guarantee that. And that's terrible to say. And it can change.
May God bless the memories of those who were killed today. May He bring comfort to their families, and courage to the injured as they fight their way back. And may He give us the strength to come together and find the courage to change.
Thank you.
END
6:35 P.M. EDT
Apparently the guns were obtained legally. Oregon does not, apparently, have very strict gun laws.
That assumption was solely made because Oregon is considered a liberal state.
