A couple of articles from the Chicago Tribune from the last few days:
The folly of Trump's 'buy American and hire American'
Now that the campaign is over, Donald Trump is no longer willing to fake it. Last year, he insisted, "I love free trade. But I want to make great deals." In his inaugural address, he dropped the masquerade.
"We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs," he said. "Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength." His formula is simple: "Buy American and hire American." In his vision of the future, we may export but we will never import.
Trump is never more certain than when he is completely clueless. The truth is that protection against foreign trade leads away from prosperity and strength. A country that deprives itself of foreign goods is doing to itself what an enemy might try to do in wartime — cut it off from outside commerce. It is volunteering to impoverish itself.
Countries don't "ravage" us when they make "our" products; they help us. At the risk of belaboring the obvious, the essence of trade — foreign or domestic — is that it makes both buyer and seller better off. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother.
But preventing such mutually agreeable transactions is Trump's dream. Already he has announced he will renegotiate NAFTA and has walked away from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a 12-nation deal that President Barack Obama signed but Congress had yet to approve.
Trump may promise "great deals," but he is likely to get — and would probably be content with — no deals. What foreign government will rush to sign an agreement stipulating that our companies will only "buy American and hire American"?
His belief that international commerce is bad for Americans and protection is good for us is not a theory but an ancient superstition. One of the most irrefutable insights of economics is that if a country can buy something abroad for less than the cost of making it at home, it's better off buying it. That transaction allows citizens to consume more for each dollar spent. It makes them richer.
The United States could grow all its fresh fruits and vegetables rather than buy some from Mexico — just as Mexico could grow all the corn and soybeans it needs rather than purchase from us. But the costs would be higher on either side. Open trade allows people in each country to eat more and better.
It also allows each economy to produce more. Trump fantasizes that American companies and workers would be better off without foreign competition. But the steel that goes into American cars and the lumber that goes into American houses would be more expensive if it all had to be produced within our borders. In industries deprived of imported supplies, prices would rise, sales would decline and employment would shrink.
The U.S. auto industry has plants in Mexico that make cars sold in the U.S., to the horror of the new president. But if he guts NAFTA, those jobs won't all move here.
A study by the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich., said that American firms that ship car parts to Mexico could lose out to suppliers in other countries. Overall, scrapping the accord and setting high tariffs would destroy 31,000 jobs in the U.S. automotive sector.
Trump defends his protectionism by asserting that "every decision on trade" should "be made to benefit American workers and American families." But free trade does exactly that. It's the classic example of a policy that benefits the many while harming the few.
Only about 14,000 Americans are employed making footwear. About 324 million Americans, on the other hand, wear shoes. Putting up barriers to foreign-made shoes would injure far more American workers and families than it would help.
It would also be a drain on the economy. When President Obama slapped heavy tariffs on Chinese tires, the Peterson Institute for International Economics found, he saved no more than 1,200 jobs — at an annual cost to consumers of $900,000 per job.
Spending nearly a million dollars to save a job that typically pays $41,000 a year is not a recipe for prosperity. It's the equivalent of selling $20 bills for a dollar apiece. Trump's dream of "buy American and hire American" would work exactly the same way.
Trump, of course, is a business magnate whose companies have sold products made everywhere from China to Honduras. In this case, wisdom lies in following his example, not his advice.
Steve Chapman, a member of the Tribune Editorial Board, blogs at www.chicagotribune.com/chapman
Daniel W. Drezner
Special to The Washington Post
Trump administration needs to get up to speed on the auto industry
On Tuesday, President Donald Trump met with the chief executives of Detroit's Big Three auto manufacturers. You can vaguely sense what he was looking for from them when he tweeted:
“Will be meeting at 9:00 with top automobile executives concerning jobs in America. I want new plants to be built here for cars sold here!”
The CEOs of the auto firms said nice things about Trump afterward. But buried in the Detroit Free Press’ write-up of the meeting were these interesting paragraphs:
“In recent months, automakers have announced plans to invest billions of new dollars in the U.S. and create thousands of new jobs — developments for which Trump has, at least in part, taken credit.
“However, in nearly every case those investments were either in the planning stages for months or were made possible by changing market conditions, though (Ford CEO Mark) Fields has said that a belief that Trump will improve the business climate in the U.S. has also played a role in Ford’s decisions.”
Apparently, it's even more complicated than that. Bloomberg News reports that given where the United States is in the current business cycle, the last thing auto manufacturers want to do is go on a huge domestic investment splurge:
“New assembly plants cost General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. or Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV about $1 billion — the sort of investment companies look to avoid making as a market peaks. And while factories boost jobs, economic gains from building them are being undercut by automation and pressure to compete with lower-wage countries including Mexico.
“ ‘This is the nightmare scenario for auto companies, which are being asked to make huge capital investments right before a slowdown in sales,’ said Dan Luria, an analyst who has advised the United Auto Workers union. ‘It seems like hardly the time to spend billions on new plants.’ …
“After the U.S. auto market's 68 percent surge since 2009, sales will be roughly flat through 2020, researcher LMC Automotive said in a report last week. After setting a record with nearly 17.6 million vehicles last year, the industry will keep coming up short of that level through the end of the decade, LMC said.”
Then there's the awkward issue of what the Big Three will do if Trump really does try to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement with higher trade barriers against Mexico. Mexico is an attractive manufacturing hub in part because of lower wages but also because of its plethora of free-trade agreements with other countries. Unless and until Trump's trade negotiators can get duty-free access to the same number of countries that Mexico can, it's not terribly logical for auto manufacturers to relocate their plants to the United States.
Trump’s economic vision seems to be that any car bought in the United States should be made in the United States. But as a previous Detroit Free Press story noted, it's just not economically feasible to produce, say, the Chevrolet Cruze in the United States:
“There probably wouldn't be a Cruze hatchback if GM had to build it in the United States. The Cruze hatch is the poster child for why interconnected global manufacturing footprints make automakers stronger. Chevy sold about 184,300 Cruze sedans in America last year — all built in Lordstown, Ohio. It brought 4,500 hatchbacks in from Mexico. GM wouldn't have invested millions of dollars for that few vehicles at its plant in Lordstown, Ohio, but it makes sense to build them in Mexico, where that body style is popular and they sell well. Without Mexican production, the 4,500 Americans who bought Cruze hatchbacks might be lost to other car brands.”
I bring all of this up because it illustrates the abject lack of knowledge that Trump and his trade/economic advisers seem to display when it comes to the automobile sector. And this is during an economic upswing.
Imagine what happens if the economy starts to run out of steam.
Washington Post
Daniel W. Drezner is a professor of international politics at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University.
Copyright © 2017, Chicago Tribune
Of course, both of these are opinion pieces/commentary
i posted this once before.......
Mercantilism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Mercantilism.html
Not sure where I saw this, might even had been one of the threads here. After Trump had his meeting with business leaders and the union, I saw a quote from a businessman who said something to the effect that 'we build factories for 40-50 years of life - we aren't going to move factories because one party comes into power - the policies could quickly change in 4 years. We plan for the future for our company.'
So Trump can say what he want and may have some influence, but I don't see a big rush of factories coming back... just a lot of added costs to consumers.....
Lots of things go into it. Trade law in this country has been steady, the only changes have been up to this point, more trade deals with more nations giving US companies freedom to easily move and operate where they wish.
Nobody pitched NAFTA as a means for a company like SquareD (make electrical breakers/fuses, switches, etc) to close manufacturing plants here, build a plant in Mexico and then sell the exact same stuff at US stores that was once made in USA, but now comes from Mexico. Maybe this was the corporate dream all along, but that is not what we were told would happen.
And the thing is, you don't always save money with a foreign made good. When you keep up with this stuff and look at all the labels where it is made, you see the old stock, you see the new stock and you see the price is the same...somebody isn't passing that savings along.
I have lots of examples for lots of things on this issue.
eLittle over a year ago I was buying some Peerless mounts to put a TV on the wall because they were made in USA (only one of two companies I found that made them here). I was buying them from a local small TV shop. Some months later I needed another, so I called George up and said I need another and he tells me "no problem, the price went up, but I will give you the old price", I go to pick it up and it is in a new shiny cardboard box, kind of a give away on country, packaging can tip me off alot. The old ones were just plain brown cardboard box with a logo and a USA flag and made in statement. The new one, yup, made in China. Price wasn't any lower. Maybe old George was making more money on it, he says he wasn't. Maybe the distributor was making more money, maybe Peerless themselves was making more money. One things is for certain, the savings did not get passed on to the consumer. And this is not isolated case. I see it alot when a brand outsources, they don't pass the savings on to the consumer.
Just start paying attention to things. I walk around the store with my wife and all I do is look at labels and what they have on their shelf. Hardware stores where ever. Need some drill bits? How about Made in USA and made in China drill bits the same price? Yeah, right next to each other 3/8 drill bit made in USA same price as a 7/16 drill bit made in China, old stock vs new stock. They changed suppliers or sources, but the prices stayed the same.
Some times it will cost more, other times it won't. Like I said before, nothing is true across the board. And in my jeans example, a US producer of a good that can now compete on a level playing field can increase sales, expand distribution, buy materials cheaper, maybe lower their price. Are we talking in circles on this stuff or do you not read things I reply to you. I know sometimes we talk past eachother here, both trying to make our points by glossing over someone else's. I think it was in the Liberal/Russia thread from a week or two ago I took up the higher prices thing.
So anyway...
big rush of companies coming back? I'm not sure, maybe. Certainly not at once, true. What I'd hope is we can change new investments in manufacturing plants from there (any foreign country) to here (USA any state, take your pick no matter to me). It won't be all at once and surely they are waiting to see what policy might change, see if their is a penalty or reward for doing so. But they will make their investments where it is wise for them to make it and if we can convince them that they are better off here (by carrot or stick) it certainly could have an effect.
How about the Stanley CEO recently:
"It’s going to be advisable to have more manufacturing in the U.S,"
http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/stanley-black-decker-trump/
I don't know exactly why the Stanley CEO would feel this way, but whatever the reason I like the sentiment. I want more foreign and US companies to feel that way, and if they think it is in their financial interest to invest here and make more things here that is ultimately a good thing for our country.
If it means i have to pay 20% more for guac and tequila, so be it.
but not health care.......lol
Well, the difference is one can avoid Mexican produced goods if they choose, there is little I can think of that Mexico has a monopoly on. China? That would be harder, but Mexico...if you didn't want to subject yourself to potentially higher priced goods because of the tariff, then you could find substitutes for alot of things made in Mexico that you could buy from another country to not subject yourself to that produce with a tariff on it.
Thing with this compared to healthcare, and I get the playful jab, but here, the consumer can choose to buy products from one country or another, pay more or pay less, whatever you know. But with healthcare, the options are limited (or even singular depending where you live) and you have to buy it...and when it keeps going up and you get less in return for it, easier to have a negative attitude towards that compared to say buying a widget from Mexico, or not buying it, or finding it made somewhere else.
And assuming a duty or tariff gets passed onto the consumer, as it likely would, it is the exact same thing as mandated minimum wage increases, but that cost impact has a much broader effect across the entire economy, and not just for minimum wage workers because some higher wage workers often have their wage as some step up from the minimum wage, so then it has an effect of creating raises across much of the workforce - which if it leads employers to shrink their workforce due to higher wage requirement, then that is ultimately a bad thing.
It all gets passed on one way or the other. But people subscribing to a certain side of the political philosophy seem to push the living wage thing without a hint of what impact is has on good and service prices, but talk of a tariff getting passed on, why.... it leads to a recession!
I'll check out the news articles tomorrow. Super tired right now.
Some times it will cost more, other times it won't. Like I said before, nothing is true across the board. And in my jeans example, a US producer of a good that can now compete on a level playing field can increase sales, expand distribution, buy materials cheaper, maybe lower their price. Are we talking in circles on this stuff or do you not read things I reply to you. I know sometimes we talk past each other here, both trying to make our points by glossing over someone else's. I think it was in the Liberal/Russia thread from a week or two ago I took up the higher prices thing.
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Not sure if the comment about not reading things and talking past someone was directed at me, I just saw 2 articles in my paper that were about the topic you wanted to discuss and I posted them without comment, other than they were opinions/commentary. I didn't say I believed everything in them, just thought I would post some other viewpoints that are out there about this topic.
Some times it will cost more, other times it won't. Like I said before, nothing is true across the board. And in my jeans example, a US producer of a good that can now compete on a level playing field can increase sales, expand distribution, buy materials cheaper, maybe lower their price. Are we talking in circles on this stuff or do you not read things I reply to you. I know sometimes we talk past each other here, both trying to make our points by glossing over someone else's. I think it was in the Liberal/Russia thread from a week or two ago I took up the higher prices thing.
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Not sure if the comment about not reading things and talking past someone was directed at me, I just saw 2 articles in my paper that were about the topic you wanted to discuss and I posted them without comment, other than they were opinions/commentary. I didn't say I believed everything in them, just thought I would post some other viewpoints that are out there about this topic.
Hi Sang. The second part of that was just kind of a general glossing over people seem to do on other's post, myself included sometime.
The first part was addressing you saying that you thought it would just add more cost to consumers, which is a concern you raised previously as well, which I tried to counter. Now, just because I say something may or may not happen isn't reason enough for you to change your mind - I mean who am I just somebody on an internet forum. But if I didn't make my point well or clear enough I am always willing to take another crack at it.
I don't always have to be right and the other side doesn't always have to be wrong. I come here because I enjoy it and hopefully we can all raise a point from time to time that others gain a bit of a different perspective from.
i posted this once before.......
Mercantilism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Mercantilism.html/blockquote >
An irony I find is that Asian countries like Korea, Japan and to some degree China all engage or have engaged in mercantilistic policies to build up their nations, build up their industry - much to their benefit, all while eroding our industrial base as we embraced free trade without barriers coming into our country (with rare exception for dumping).
I do want a strong "state". I want a strong and financially healthy United States of America, which I see our population and communities as a whole benefiting from. My views on trade are a means to that end.
Some times it will cost more, other times it won't. Like I said before, nothing is true across the board. And in my jeans example, a US producer of a good that can now compete on a level playing field can increase sales, expand distribution, buy materials cheaper, maybe lower their price. Are we talking in circles on this stuff or do you not read things I reply to you. I know sometimes we talk past each other here, both trying to make our points by glossing over someone else's. I think it was in the Liberal/Russia thread from a week or two ago I took up the higher prices thing.
.
Not sure if the comment about not reading things and talking past someone was directed at me, I just saw 2 articles in my paper that were about the topic you wanted to discuss and I posted them without comment, other than they were opinions/commentary. I didn't say I believed everything in them, just thought I would post some other viewpoints that are out there about this topic.
Hi Sang. The second part of that was just kind of a general glossing over people seem to do on other's post, myself included sometime.
The first part was addressing you saying that you thought it would just add more cost to consumers, which is a concern you raised previously as well, which I tried to counter. Now, just because I say something may or may not happen isn't reason enough for you to change your mind - I mean who am I just somebody on an internet forum. But if I didn't make my point well or clear enough I am always willing to take another crack at it.
I don't always have to be right and the other side doesn't always have to be wrong. I come here because I enjoy it and hopefully we can all raise a point from time to time that others gain a bit of a different perspective from.
My point was that if tariffs are enforced, somebody will pay for it - and according to what you said above about companies 'not passing along the savings', I don't see anybody but the consumer paying for it.
I will try to talk to one of my neighbors - a big Obama hater and Trump lover - who owns a plant in Mexico for the product his company produces. I'll get his take on what he thinks of the tariffs and what he would do.....
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/ct-trump-clueless-trade- jobs-trade-nafta-perspec-0126-20170125-column.html
For those singing the virtues of free trade, they better not be the ones up in arms about the wage gap between blue collar and white collar workers. And they better not be the ones with all those percentages thrown around comparing CEO pay to average worker pay. When and why did this great divide in wages begin? You can thank outsourcing work to foreign countries...companies being able to produce cheaper, pay workers less, make more profit and where does the profit go - alot of places, but one place it goes is to the high (or disproportionate) management salaries? Other people can make this case better than I can, but opening cheap labor markets for US corporations to exploit is a driving factor of this...absent from the story there. Looking at past articles written by Mr Chapman...has he ever said anything positive about Trump or about his proposals?
Daniel W. Drezner
Special to The Washington PostTrump administration needs to get up to speed on the auto industry
Trump’s economic vision seems to be that any car bought in the United States should be made in the United States. But as a previous Detroit Free Press story noted, it's just not economically feasible to produce, say, the Chevrolet Cruze in the United States:
“There probably wouldn't be a Cruze hatchback if GM had to build it in the United States. The Cruze hatch is the poster child for why interconnected global manufacturing footprints make automakers stronger. Chevy sold about 184,300 Cruze sedans in America last year — all built in Lordstown, Ohio. It brought 4,500 hatchbacks in from Mexico. GM wouldn't have invested millions of dollars for that few vehicles at its plant in Lordstown, Ohio, but it makes sense to build them in Mexico, where that body style is popular and they sell well. Without Mexican production, the 4,500 Americans who bought Cruze hatchbacks might be lost to other car brands.”
I bring all of this up because it illustrates the abject lack of knowledge that Trump and his trade/economic advisers seem to display when it comes to the automobile sector. And this is during an economic upswing.
That part in bold and underlined there, that is wrong, Trump was right in his tweets, it is all illustrated below. GM had to come out and correct themselves. Trust me there are Mexican built Chevy Cruze sedans on dealer lots. Lordstown just down the road a bit from me, you can imagine the controversy.
AND the 4500 Cruze hatchbacks sold in 2016 is misleading, so is the statement that if they had to be made in Lordstown the model may not have ever been produced.
Because the hatchback model just began shipping in 4th qrt 2016, a very late arriving model for sale. Let's see what sales are over an entire fiscal or calendar year. Ford Focus and Mazda 3 hatchbacks sell 100,000 models a year combined per year, so there is sales potential there for this new Cruze model. Using early sales from initial shipments at the end of the year and using it to say that not enough sales exist to make the car in the US is at best misleading and at worst a agenda based lie. Maybe the Trib needs to get more up to speed on the auto industry? 
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/19/news/economy/donald-trump-chevy-cruze-mexico/
Trump was right about Mexican-made GM cars
by Heather Long @byHeatherLong January 19, 2017: 10:03 AM ET
Can Trump take credit for new jobs?
Donald Trump doesn't like things made in Mexico.On January 3, he slammed GM, one of America's big three automakers, for manufacturing cars in Mexico to sell across the border in the U.S. He focused his firepower on the Chevy Cruze, one of GM's signature small cars.
"General Motors is sending Mexican made model of Chevy Cruze to U.S. car dealers-tax free across border. Make in U.S.A. or pay big border tax!" Trump tweeted at the time.
A huge debate ensued: Did Trump have his facts right? GM (GM) was quick to say no. The company issued a statement claiming it makes all Cruze sedans sold in the U.S. at a big factory in Lordstown, Ohio. (Read the full statement at the end of this article).
But it turns out, what Trump tweeted was true.
Right now in the United States, there are Chevy Cruze sedans for sale at GM dealerships that were made in Mexico.
In fact, CNNMoney even found a Mexican-made Cruze sedan for sale at a GM dealership in Lordstown, Ohio.
No wonder workers at the GM Assembly Plant in Lordstown are livid. The plant is facing 1,200 layoffs this Friday, the day of Trump's inauguration.
GM told the workers there were too many Cruze sedans on car lots. They weren't selling, so GM had to cut some of the 4,500 workers at the Lordstown plant.
"It's the ultimate insult: Chevy Cruzes with Mexican VIN numbers shipped to Lordstown," says Heather Lexso, a worker at the GM plant in Lordstown. She is losing her job putting carpets in the trunk as GM eliminates the entire third shift.
Related: 2,000 GM workers to lose jobs on Trump Inauguration Day
Mexican-made Cruzes are for sale, even in Lordstown
Lexso is referring to the ID number every car gets when it's build. It's known as the Vehicle Identification Number, or VIN. Car analyst and blogger E.W. Niedermeyer was the first to point out GM wasn't being totally honest. He explained that any Chevy Cruze made in Ohio has a number that begins with a "1," which is the VIN country code for the U.S. Any Chevy Cruze made in Mexico has a number that begins with "3," the VIN country code for Mexico.
Using that information, Niedermeyer found numerous examples of Chevy Cruze sedans for sale online that were made in Mexico. His discovery caught the attention of Car and Driver magazine, which confirmed there was a 2017 Chevy Cruze sedan for sale in Portland, Oregon that was clearly made in Mexico, not Ohio.
Over the weekend, CNNMoney traveled to Lordstown and stopped by the main GM dealership there known as Spitzer Chevrolet Lordstown. It's located about 5 miles from the factory where Cruze sedans are made and workers are losing jobs.
Spitzer had about 30 Cruze sedans for sale on its main lot. Sure enough, CNNMoney found that one had a Mexican VIN number. The sale tag on the window of the car even says "Final Assembly Point: Ramos Arizpe, Mexico."
Related: GM, Chrysler have more workers in Mexico than Ford
chevy cruze mexico 2
The tag on the window of a 2017 Chevy Cruze sedan for sale at the Spitzer Chevrolet dealedership in Lordstown, Ohio.GM confirms Mexican-made Cruze sedans
This week, GM admitted to CNNMoney that at least 8,400 Chevy Cruze sedans were built in Mexico at the end of last year and brought to the U.S. for sale. It's a small fraction of the 188,876 Cruzes the company says it sold in the U.S. last year, but the Mexican imports did happen.
"A small number of Mexico-made Chevrolet Cruze sedans were produced in 2016 for sale in the U.S. This supplemental production ended in December. Lordstown is now the sole source for the Cruze sedans," said GM spokesman Tom Wickham.
The frustration in Lordstown is palpable. Everyone is talking about Trump's tweet and how it's true that Mexican-made Cruzes are being sold there. They hope Trump will save their 1,200 jobs.
"How messed up is it that someone in Lordstown could be driving a Mexican-made Cruze?" says Robert Sheridan, another GM worker about to lose his job.
What GM sent CNNMoney on January 3:
"General Motors manufactures the Chevrolet Cruze sedan in Lordstown, Ohio. All Chevrolet Cruze sedans sold in the U.S. are built in GM's assembly plant in Lordstown, Ohio. GM builds the Chevrolet Cruze hatchback for global markets in Mexico, with a small number sold in the U.S."
What GM sent CNNMoney on January 17:
"A small number of Mexico-made Chevrolet Cruze sedans were produced in 2016 for sale in the U.S. This supplemental production ended in December. Lordstown is now the sole source for the Cruze sedans."
Finally, on the auto issue, we need only look at the explosion of growth Korean built autos have had in our market. Sure Kia and Hyundai throw us a bone and build a couple of their models here, while importing 3/4 of what they sell here. Good for Koreans, bad for US workers.
I'll be visiting the Cleveland autoshow end of this month. My favorite thing to do is look at MSRP and country of origin data on window stickers. Tells you alot about what is going on in the auto industry, where things come from. Last year I saw a large number of Korean tires on US branded cars and trucks. First time I had saw such a thing. You know normally you'd have Goodyear, Firestone, Cooper, Michelin, the normal household type names, some of those are US companies, some of those are made in USA, some are not. But everyone has to watch out now, here come the Korean tires ready to race the big boys to the bottom. Wonder if we'll be seeing more job losses at US tire plants as a result?
Here is an excerpt from a story relating to Ford halting the 1.6 billion facility in Mexico:
The loss to the economy, Eaves calculates, could run into the hundreds of millions of dollars, and maybe even into the billions, over the next five years, as manufacturing, contracting and indirect jobs all fall short of plans. Officials say they are still analyzing the economic impact of the Ford decision.
Hmm, sure would be nice to have hundreds of millions of dollars or maybe into the billions over the next five years as manufacturing, contracting and indirect jobs here in the US wouldn't it?
That is what they are saying the loss of that plant cost Mexico, and all of that shot in the arm of the surrounding economy, but it certainly illustrates the overall impact the auto industry has when they decide where they want to build their next plant.
The US didn't gain a new plant in this Ford decision, but did get some investment to expand an existing facility and 700 created jobs. I'll take that as a good trade off for us.
In that article it also states:
Ford's chief executive Mark Fields said market forces had swayed Ford's decision to not build the San Luis Potosi plant, with low gas prices and low interest rates hampering small car sales.
Fields also noted President-elect Donald Trump's promises to make the US more competitive by lowering taxes and easing regulations.
"We believe these tax and regulatory reforms are necessary to boost US competitiveness," Fields said, speaking in Flat Rock, Michigan, where the assembly plant is located.
During his presidential campaign, Trump said that if elected, he would not allow Ford to open its plant in Mexico and threatened to add tariffs to any vehicles Ford imported from the US' southern neighbor.
Should Trump take credit for that? He can't take credit for "market forces", but he certainly could take credit for painting a picture of a more competitive industry with less tax and regulations - then the whole tariff boarder tax thing is just there in the corner, play a role? Really it may not matter in light of the tax and regulatory changes Ford CEO is hoping for, which Trump has stated.
My point was that if tariffs are enforced, somebody will pay for it - and according to what you said above about companies 'not passing along the savings', I don't see anybody but the consumer paying for it.
Or it might cost Mexico really...cost them jobs. If consumers buy products from other countries instead, or if ultimately companies look to locate somewhere else to evade the tariff. There is a financial cost with the tax being applied to the product and passed along and then there are other costs that the country of Mexico could bear.
I will try to talk to one of my neighbors - a big Obama hater and Trump lover - who owns a plant in Mexico for the product his company produces. I'll get his take on what he thinks of the tariffs and what he would do.....
Great, I look forward to it. If he is anti-Trump on this issue, spin it around like you are pro-Trump on it, that sounds like it would be a hoot of a conversation!
"During his presidential campaign, Trump said that if elected, he would not allow Ford to open its plant in Mexico and threatened to add tariffs to any vehicles Ford imported from the US' southern neighbor."
So this is where some of the wheels fall off for me.... he would not allow a company to open a plant in Mexico? How? Why?
Republicans and conservatives usually go nuts about the government (or president) 'picking winners and losers' and hampering market forces. How is this different?
"During his presidential campaign, Trump said that if elected, he would not allow Ford to open its plant in Mexico and threatened to add tariffs to any vehicles Ford imported from the US' southern neighbor."
So this is where some of the wheels fall off for me.... he would not allow a company to open a plant in Mexico? How? Why?
Republicans and conservatives usually go nuts about the government (or president) 'picking winners and losers' and hampering market forces. How is this different?
It's Trump...everything is different...LOL.
He isn't subscribing to any kind of ideological view on trade, that much is clear. If the bought and paid for suits in Washington who do listen to their lobbyists and corporate puppet masters follow Trump time will tell.
Everything is different.
I took some photos at Target today until my wife told me to stop I was embarrassing her.
Made in USA bandages cheaper than made in Brazil band-aids
Made in USA bags cheaper than made in Canada (beware of Zip Lock bags made in Thailand which I have increasingly seen).
will trump stop walmart from buying all their goods from china???.
...or Home Depot, or Best Buy, or your local hardware store, or any store...
There is no pure store, big box or otherwise when it comes to products from China or anywhere.
The Walmart example...if I have time I would like to post the number of made in USA products that can be found at Walmart. I would bet anyone that I could easily find dozens upon dozens, perhaps even hundreds (when adding all up all individual skus) of made in USA products at Walmart. I guarantee it, wanna bet? Trust me, I look at origin labels like it is my job. You go do it. Go to your Walmart. You would be surprised how much you can buy at Walmart that is made in USA.
will trump stop walmart from buying all their goods from china???.
...or Home Depot, or Best Buy, or your local hardware store, or any store...
There is no pure store, big box or otherwise when it comes to products from China or anywhere.
The Walmart example...if I have time I would like to post the number of made in USA products that can be found at Walmart. I would bet anyone that I could easily find dozens upon dozens, perhaps even hundreds (when adding all up all individual skus) of made in USA products at Walmart. I guarantee it, wanna bet? Trust me, I look at origin labels like it is my job. You go do it. Go to your Walmart. You would be surprised how much you can buy at Walmart that is made in USA.
If trump insisted they sell "Made in USA" only, they would ALL close their doors.
That just isn't realistic. Who has ever said that Walmart or any retailer must only sell made in USA exclusively? Nobody has. That is not a position that Donald Trump has insisted or even hinted upon. Why are we going down that path? What I think we can do as consumers and what our country should do in policy is incentivize more goods and services being made and originating here, locating production and job centers here and favor the products made in our own communities with our own workers instead of those made abroad. I have been consistent on that since I began posting in these forums many years ago.
What I did in reply to your initial post this morning is to dispel this myth that everything at Walmart is made in China, or somehow Walmart is worse in this respect compared to other box store retailers. My point was that you could do quite well buying a large variety household and garage items at Walmart, not to mention the grocery aspect or the cosmetic/personal hygiene departments of their stores that are chock full of USA items.
Back to your question, currently the availability and capacity to fill an entire big box retail store with exclusively made in USA product does not exist.
That is not to mean that the product in question may not exist elsewhere, just that for a variety of reasons, if such product does exist is often isn't found in your neighborhood box store. Still, it is true you can find alot of USA product in these box stores, and it is true that you may not even realize the product you are buying is imported while passing up a US produced item next to it on the shelf. And sometimes that USA item is cheaper than the import. And it is also true that if you can't find a specific item in your local store that is made in the USA, chances are with some time and effort you can find and buy that product online or elsewhere. But it is also true that some items just are not made or assembled here and then it adds to the impossibility of having a retailer exclusively rely upon domestically made items for their shelves.
I'm surprised that this concept gets such pushback from people falling closer to the left side of the political spectrum. I guess Trump is making those more liberal minded people free market capitalist in favor of outsourcing all of a sudden? Before it was the Republicans and free trade, free market conservatives, you know the business interests, who oppose efforts and fought policy and initiatives for more USA made policy. Now the other side wants to attack the buy American sentiment? Confused. Doesn't matter to me who the President is, if my views align with their views that is something I support. I guess if Trump is for it, everyone else has to be against it now. But he has never said and I can't imagine him ever saying that Walmart must only sell USA made stuff.
I just am right now buying a lot of made in USA new old stock radiator caps for $10 each off of ebay because I can't find them in the USA anymore. Stant, Delco, Napa, and other brands started making them in Mexico and elsewhere a handful of years ago. You can still buy Stant and other branded thermostats that are US, but not radiator caps in the US.
So even if it isn't available in a store, or isn't produced any more I go to great lengths to source a USA made item before I consider settling for what else may be out there in terms of an import.
I've said before it is like a religion and for my friends, family and people that know me, it is important I walk the walk because I can't expect anyone else to care if the person who preaches USA to them doesn't back it up when nobody is looking.
I just am right now buying a lot of made in USA new old stock radiator caps for $10 each off of ebay because I can't find them in the USA anymore. Stant, Delco, Napa, and other brands started making them in Mexico and elsewhere a handful of years ago. You can still buy Stant and other branded thermostats that are US, but not radiator caps in the US.
So even if it isn't available in a store, or isn't produced any more I go to great lengths to source a USA made item before I consider settling for what else may be out there in terms of an import.
I've said before it is like a religion and for my friends, family and people that know me, it is important I walk the walk because I can't expect anyone else to care if the person who preaches USA to them doesn't back it up when nobody is looking.
Im with you on this I am all for buying american. the recent trend of companies going back to "made in USA" has nothing to do with any political party, they decided in the past few years, its better and more cost effective to make it here. CEO's make over 400x the average worker, because of union busting, and outsourcing starting around the time reagan was elected.
Pops my friend, I just knew that we had agreement on the root issue.
There may be some aspect of the "political sentiment" or the vague comments by Trump that has led to some thinking about "reshoring" or where their investment dollars will go. But otherwise I agree, businesses do things for reasons of cost and efficiency and location. Back in 2008 when oil/diesel/gas there was a big problem for people relying on overseas shipping that had now skyrocketed due to high fuel costs. And then we have the labor costs that have risen in some areas. When it comes to "better and more cost effective", it is good PR for them to do it if they can market it right, but then there are also the tax and regulatory aspects, which we needed not get into at the moment to kill the buzz...
We could debate the merits of unionized workforce some other time or some other place. But I would say that I want what all labor union workers want. They want good pay, good working conditions, good benefits, job security and future opportunity - that is what I want for US workers as well and I see creating more demand for labor as the means to achieve it (not mandated upon employers who would then consider just outsourcing production as a result). And I know we agree on the outsourcing aspect and the impact it has had on the average or median worker pay compared to CEO pay.
Let's not even mention the name of the POTUS, we are on the same page, Buy American! 😉
When it comes to toys, just about all toys kids like and want are the cheapo crap you see in the toy aisle which is almost always made in China.
We have found that there are some decent alternatives out there that kids actually like and to want to play with. Our grandkids got a some of this stuff for Christmas and it is pretty cool stuff. They claim 100% recycled and 100% made in USA.
Check them out!
http://www.greentoys.com/our-passion#3?show=content
I certainly do read labels of most everything I buy, although it sounds like you go to greater lengths to find that Made in USA item when one isn't readily available there on the shelf.
It amazes me to see country of origin on some stuff, tooth brushes for example - I refuse to buy/use a toothbrush made in China, but check it out next time you shop, you too will be amazed where these things are made these days.
Frustrating to read labels only to find it doesn't say where it was made. It may say distributed by or simply give the corporate address of the company, but I am looking for Made in USA, so if it doesn't say that, one can guess what they are hiding.
Edit: and I bookmarked that green toys site, thanks !
[Edited on 2/15/2017 by heineken515]
I certainly do read labels of most everything I buy, although it sounds like you go to greater lengths to find that Made in USA item when one isn't readily available there on the shelf.
It amazes me to see country of origin on some stuff, tooth brushes for example - I refuse to buy/use a toothbrush made in China, but check it out next time you shop, you too will be amazed where these things are made these days.
Frustrating to read labels only to find it doesn't say where it was made. It may say distributed by or simply give the corporate address of the company, but I am looking for Made in USA, so if it doesn't say that, one can guess what they are hiding.
Edit: and I bookmarked that green toys site, thanks !
[Edited on 2/15/2017 by heineken515]
Sometimes items that are boxed in a case, the individual items may not say where they are made, but the case box would say were they are from. I have seen this in auto parts warehouses, where the product or the individual product box said nothing of country, but if you saw the case box still on the warehouse shelf you may see the country there. When it is on a retail shelf you lose that opportunity to see the case box of course.
Just us buying things that are made in USA without telling people about it and why it is important to us doesn't really do anything. I mean, really my own efforts likely won't effect anything big picture, but we can plant seeds in the minds of people we come in contact with.
This will sound crazy, but sometimes I take something to the register that I saw was imported, but when I'm at check out I pretend I just saw that it was imported right then and there and I tell the cashier that I don't want it and that I try to buy as many things made in USA as possible. This usually gets 3 reactions. The confident "I'm with you on that", or the debbie-downers "nothing is made here anymore", or the always rewarding reaction of "that's fine whatever".
The border adjustment tax is shaping up to be the vehicle in which Washington may address the import / export trade imbalance and outsourcing issue. A massive tax plan is expected and it would be rolled into that. Alot of Republicans are against it, not surprising given their views of free markets and free trade. Border adjustment tax on it's own, I suspect many Democrats will support, but rolled into a larger tax reform bill, I doubt that all that many Democrats will find favor with the overall bill based on the historical push-pull Ds and Rs have on taxes.
Companies with large manufacturing and assembly operations in the US would be for it. Most retailers (who have a large portion of imported goods on their shelf) are against it. Although former Walmart CEO is for it (on big picture principle rather than individual effects it has on one company or anther):
“[The CEOs in opposition to the tax] are making their decisions based on the tax code as it is set up today, and what’s being proposed is a complete reform of the tax code where the incentives to export jobs and export businesses that have existed for years would be turned around so that the incentives to build capability and jobs in the U.S. would exist,” Bill Simon, former Walmart U.S. president and CEO, said during an interview with FOX Business’ Stuart Varney Wednesday.
A company like Autozone for instance a strongly against it. But this is a key point to be made here, auto parts and accessories are increasingly getting harder and harder to find made in the US. So autozone looks at it's skus and where they come from and conclude that the cost of what they sell will go up and they may have less sales, less profit or be less competitive. BUT, what if some of these companies making the parts begin to make the parts here again to avoid the tax? Then we get the benefit of manufacturing facilities and the jobs and all the local and state taxes that come with it to benefit our communities.
Some calculations have it raising a trillion dollars over some period of time, which will offset a reduction in corporate incomes.
The government may just be happy collecting the tax, but as I have stated, the idea is to incentivize more companies both US and foreign to produce their products in our country with our workers.
We'll see where it goes.
Here is an article on border adjustment tax vs targeted tariffs
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/02/paul_ryans_border_adjustment_tax_vs_donald_trumps_targeted_tariffs.html
Lots of articles around right now that you can find on the issue.
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514650890/trump-gop-at-odds-over-border-adjustment-tax
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-breakingviews-idUSKBN15920G
[Edited on 2/19/2017 by nebish]
just another FYI
My salesman just got back from a week in Mexico visiting customers. General consensus was they are not coming back and are willing to let the US consumer pay higher prices for parts. CNC machines aren't made in the USA, nor are alot of cutting tools. Other supplies required for manufacturing can be purchased from sources outside the USA also. Workers there in general have been getting a 5% raise each year for the last few years. A lot of what's made down there is sold south of the border anyhow. Now i'm not talking about every manufacturer, just the ones I deal with.
just another FYI
My salesman just got back from a week in Mexico visiting customers. General consensus was they are not coming back and are willing to let the US consumer pay higher prices for parts. CNC machines aren't made in the USA, nor are alot of cutting tools. Other supplies required for manufacturing can be purchased from sources outside the USA also. Workers there in general have been getting a 5% raise each year for the last few years. A lot of what's made down there is sold south of the border anyhow. Now i'm not talking about every manufacturer, just the ones I deal with.
Haas
Today, Haas manufactures four major product lines: vertical machining centers (VMCs), horizontal machining centers (HMCs), CNC lathes and rotary tables, as well as a number of large five-axis and specialty machines. All Haas products are manufactured at the company's expansive facility in Oxnard, California – the largest, most modern machine tool manufacturing operation in the United States.
http://www.haascnc.com/about_history.asp#gsc.tab=0
I knew Haas was USA. Not sure if anyone else is. Where are the Japanese machines made? I know they are regarded for very high quality. They build those in Asia or Mexico?
Holding fixtures -
Orange Vise 100% USA
http://orangevise.com/
Kurt's website says made in USA
http://www.kurt.com/product_solutions/kurt-workholding-solutions
Granger shows 2,229 machine tool related items with USA country of origin.
Haas are good machines but......not for 24/7 manufacturing. they are fairly weak throw away machines compared to mazak and okuma etc.
the workholding companies you name don't do integrated turnkey systems integrated i mean they may do some, but not the type automotive need for a lot of parts. i don't want to give away too much....NDA's and all
lol, i do workholding....we are american
You are certainly more qualified than me on the day-to-day use of CNCs. I've been around many machine tools, but have never used a mill, lathe or CNC.
Funny, did I link to two of your competitors? That would be weird! What if I unknowingly linked to your company?
My friend is a machinist and has taught machine trades at the high school and career/vocational school level.
Haas sponsored a competitive rock crawling Jeep his students built. Haas is also part owner of a very good nascar team. You are about to learn alot more about nascar this year!
LOL, no those guys not close to my competitors. Haas makes good stuff for smaller shops....thats why they advertise in Nascar. they also make good CNC controls. they are not a bad company but i have never owned one, which means absolutely nothing.
i will say a CNC that can do multiple operations is worthless if you don't have workholding to hold the part while it happens. its always a struggle between theory and reality.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hasbro-to-make-play-doh-american-again-1488031202
By Paul Ziobro
Feb. 25, 2017 9:00 a.m. ET
93 COMMENTSPlay-Doh will soon be squeezed out of a factory in the U.S. again, as Hasbro Inc. brings manufacturing of the popular moldable clay back to America for the first time in years.
Hasbro said it is working with a manufacturing partner to make Play-Doh at a facility in East Longmeadow, Mass., starting in the second half of 2018. Although the preschool clay was invented in Cincinnati in the 1950s, it hasn’t been made in the U.S. since 2004.
Play-doh moves to the approved grandchild gift list next year!
Same article:
Companies are exploring new places to make toys as the Trump administration and Congress weigh a dramatic overhaul of U.S. tax policy. One proposal from House Republicans would prevent companies from deducting the cost of imports when calculating their taxes, while exempting proceeds from exports. That plan has been under attack from retailers, senators and oil refiners. Mr. Trump has offered ambivalent positions on the border-adjustment idea, but he has consistently said he wants policies that favor domestic manufacturing.
Such a change would have serious implications for the $25 billion U.S. toy industry, which has long made the vast majority of its product overseas. The research firm IBISWorld estimates that 98.5% of all toys sold in the U.S. last year were made elsewhere.
Toy companies are assessing the different scenarios. Mattel Inc. executives said last month that if the government imposes a major tax on imported products, the company would have to adjust its manufacturing footprint. Mattel closed its last U.S. production site—a Fisher-Price factory in Murray, Ky.—in 2002.
“Shorter term, there’s not much we can do about that,” said Kevin Farr, Mattel’s finance chief, on an earnings conference call. “Longer term, I think we would react to it.”
"have to adjust it's manufacturing footprint"...Taxing imports can yield the desired results.
