...And then do it over again 8 times................
Eight times? In your dreams. They fight the process every step of the way. Their first
story was "rogue agents" being responsible, which was shot down in flames. Then the
hard drives started melting down, as if that fooled anyone. Are you really this gullible?
From PBS:
The House Intelligence Committee report was released with little fanfare on the Friday before Thanksgiving week. Many of its findings echo those of six previous investigations by various congressional committees and a State Department panel. The eighth Benghazi investigation is being carried out by a House Select Committee appointed in May.
...And then do it over again 8 times................
Eight times? In your dreams. They fight the process every step of the way. Their first
story was "rogue agents" being responsible, which was shot down in flames. Then the
hard drives started melting down, as if that fooled anyone. Are you really this gullible?From PBS:
The House Intelligence Committee report was released with little fanfare on the Friday before Thanksgiving week. Many of its findings echo those of six previous investigations by various congressional committees and a State Department panel. The eighth Benghazi investigation is being carried out by a House Select Committee appointed in May.
Great, but my comments that you responded to dealt with the IRS matter.
...And then do it over again 8 times................
Eight times? In your dreams. They fight the process every step of the way. Their first
story was "rogue agents" being responsible, which was shot down in flames. Then the
hard drives started melting down, as if that fooled anyone. Are you really this gullible?If you think there isn't a witch hunt going on, it would be safe to assume that you are gullible.
A witch hunt means there is no guilt, correct? Fine, then end the witch hunt.....Don't fight the process, cooperate!
Seems like such a simple solution being that there is no guilt. Talk about being your own worst
enemy.If someone resists being investigated, they are automatically guilty?
In the cases relevant to this discussion, it's known as spoliation, and in certain cases guilt can be inferred as a result.
...And then do it over again 8 times................
Eight times? In your dreams. They fight the process every step of the way. Their first
story was "rogue agents" being responsible, which was shot down in flames. Then the
hard drives started melting down, as if that fooled anyone. Are you really this gullible?If you think there isn't a witch hunt going on, it would be safe to assume that you are gullible.
A witch hunt means there is no guilt, correct? Fine, then end the witch hunt.....Don't fight the process, cooperate!
Seems like such a simple solution being that there is no guilt. Talk about being your own worst
enemy.If someone resists being investigated, they are automatically guilty?
In the cases relevant to this discussion, it's known as spoliation, and in certain cases guilt can be inferred as a result.
If you had quoted everything i said, you would have gotten the answer to your dumb remark. Again, in the US, there is a presumption of innocence. Always. Not just when it suits you.
In certain cases guilt can be inferred?
So the legal process is usurped?
Again - Benghazi 8 investigations to find nothing. Millions and Millions of tax payer dollars to find nothing. Hasn't this been investigated already?
Ever hear the story about the little boy that cried wolf?
Can't you see why folks are a little distrustful of Republican investigations?
My feelings and opinion on the matter can be summed up as follows. Regardless of who is in power, if there are messes in the government that need cleaning up I want to see it done. Whether it's Republicans or Democrats -- Don't stonewall investigations, answer the questions, provide any documents and evidence that are requested without delay.
I can't begin to fathom the rationalization and unconditional devotion to a political party where foul play might be involved. My ONLY concern is to see the messes cleaned up and all the questions answered. I can tell you with 100% honesty that if the GOP is involved in wrongdoing of any kind, I urge full cooperation with any investigation and the guilty parties punished to the full extent of the Law.
We deserve a much more effective, honest, and accountable government than we're getting. I'm strongly in favor of anything that moves us in that direction, regardless of the situation. We deserve that.
My feelings and opinion on the matter can be summed up as follows. Regardless of who is in power, if there are messes in the government that need cleaning up I want to see it done. Whether it's Republicans or Democrats -- Don't stonewall investigations, answer the questions, provide any documents and evidence that are requested without delay.
I can't begin to fathom the rationalization and unconditional devotion to a political party where foul play might be involved. My ONLY concern is to see the messes cleaned up and all the questions answered. I can tell you with 100% honesty that if the GOP is involved in wrongdoing of any kind, I urge full cooperation with any investigation and the guilty parties punished to the full extent of the Law.
We deserve a much more effective, honest, and accountable government than we're getting. I'm strongly in favor of anything that moves us in that direction, regardless of the situation. We deserve that.
I am calling BS on this. You are a staunch defender of the Republican Party in all things. You have never blamed the GOP for anything other than these vague proclamations that you make.
SHOW ME THE EMAILS!
Anyone who doesn't think any of these scandals should be investigated until all the information comes out is so delusional it isn't funny. Why doesn't Obama step in and demand these agencies release the documentation so we can move on?. If they don't have anything to hide why stonewall? The fact that it continues is because it(all of the scandals) has been stonewalled at every point possible. IRS, EPA, Secretary of State, Justice department There have been so many lies and deceit on these issues it is pathetic. And the BIAS from the main stream media is disgusting. I have to laugh at all you liberals bashing Fox news. By the way I think Boehner and McConnell suck also.
Not a smidgen of corruption?
My feelings and opinion on the matter can be summed up as follows. Regardless of who is in power, if there are messes in the government that need cleaning up I want to see it done. Whether it's Republicans or Democrats -- Don't stonewall investigations, answer the questions, provide any documents and evidence that are requested without delay.
I can't begin to fathom the rationalization and unconditional devotion to a political party where foul play might be involved. My ONLY concern is to see the messes cleaned up and all the questions answered. I can tell you with 100% honesty that if the GOP is involved in wrongdoing of any kind, I urge full cooperation with any investigation and the guilty parties punished to the full extent of the Law.
We deserve a much more effective, honest, and accountable government than we're getting. I'm strongly in favor of anything that moves us in that direction, regardless of the situation. We deserve that.
Here's the problem: how do you separate the political witch hunts and smear campaigns from cases that actually deserve the type of scrutiny that you are describing? Should anyone who is accused simply roll over and accept an investigation when they know they did nothing wrong and the purpose of that investigation is only to foster accusations as part of a political smear campaign? How many investigations does someone need to accept before before a particular incident or accusation is considered settled? One? Five? Eight? Who holds the investigators accountable? On some level I agree with everything you say above, but at the same time I see it as an over simplification of political and legal system that is tremendously complicated and nuanced and will never be as black and white as you suggest no matter how honest and accountable we want it to be.
"We deserve that"
I go back and forth on this. I don't disagree that "we" as individuals, each one of us, deserves better, and each of us has every right to expect better. But then again, "we" as a collective keep electing the same people and/or same types of people over and over again which just keeps on feeding the monster and on that level I can't help but think that we are getting exactly what we deserve.
Here's the problem: how do you separate the political witch hunts and smear campaigns from cases that actually deserve the type of scrutiny that you are describing? Should anyone who is accused simply roll over and accept an investigation when they know they did nothing wrong and the purpose of that investigation is only to foster accusations as part of a political smear campaign? How many investigations does someone need to accept before before a particular incident or accusation is considered settled? One? Five? Eight? Who holds the investigators accountable? On some level I agree with everything you say above, but at the same time I see it as an over simplification of political and legal system that is tremendously complicated and nuanced and will never be as black and white as you suggest no matter how honest and accountable we want it to be.
I echo this sentiment. Especially in today's society when the accusation, the smear, is enough for large swaths of the population to determine "guilt".
I want all white collar criminals held accountable. But I don't want to finance political party smear campaigns.
Didn't the IRS also investigate the tax returns of "liberal" organizations?
And again, why are any of these rat bastids tax exempt? Politics is big money. Just ask Sarah Palin or Donald Trump how much money they "earn" while "running" for President.
My feelings and opinion on the matter can be summed up as follows. Regardless of who is in power, if there are messes in the government that need cleaning up I want to see it done. Whether it's Republicans or Democrats -- Don't stonewall investigations, answer the questions, provide any documents and evidence that are requested without delay.
I can't begin to fathom the rationalization and unconditional devotion to a political party where foul play might be involved. My ONLY concern is to see the messes cleaned up and all the questions answered. I can tell you with 100% honesty that if the GOP is involved in wrongdoing of any kind, I urge full cooperation with any investigation and the guilty parties punished to the full extent of the Law.
We deserve a much more effective, honest, and accountable government than we're getting. I'm strongly in favor of anything that moves us in that direction, regardless of the situation. We deserve that.
I am calling BS on this. You are a staunch defender of the Republican Party in all things. You have never blamed the GOP for anything other than these vague proclamations that you make.
I'm going to back up Alloak here. Although he is obviously a partisan GOP defender, I've never seen him back up a Republican involved in a scandal that I can remember. Unlike some of the other conservative posters here, I don't put him in the category of those who will defend his party when they are obviously guilty of something. I'm not, however, sure that he would be calling for investigations quit as loudly if it was a Republican administration, but let's not lump Alloak in with Muleboy who doesn't think any Republican has done anything wrong ever.
The tone of rhetoric may differ, but there's not much difference between the bold and the subtle. Don't be fooled.
Here's the problem: how do you separate the political witch hunts and smear campaigns from cases that actually deserve the type of scrutiny that you are describing?
You can't. Ask Ken Starr.
The witch hunt in the case of the IRS , was the IRS targeting conservative groups and working with the justice department to see it they could find anything. They got caught, they also got caught releasing the tax information and sharing it with others, which is a felony. That was the witch hunt. And then trying to destroy, hide the evidence and lie is the coverup. The president himself became involved when he said there wasn't a smidgen of corruption. How would he know? Why don't they just release the emails between the white house and IRS and Justice department?
nothing to see here folks
My feelings and opinion on the matter can be summed up as follows. Regardless of who is in power, if there are messes in the government that need cleaning up I want to see it done. Whether it's Republicans or Democrats -- Don't stonewall investigations, answer the questions, provide any documents and evidence that are requested without delay.
I can't begin to fathom the rationalization and unconditional devotion to a political party where foul play might be involved. My ONLY concern is to see the messes cleaned up and all the questions answered. I can tell you with 100% honesty that if the GOP is involved in wrongdoing of any kind, I urge full cooperation with any investigation and the guilty parties punished to the full extent of the Law.
We deserve a much more effective, honest, and accountable government than we're getting. I'm strongly in favor of anything that moves us in that direction, regardless of the situation. We deserve that.
Here's the problem: how do you separate the political witch hunts and smear campaigns from cases that actually deserve the type of scrutiny that you are describing? Should anyone who is accused simply roll over and accept an investigation when they know they did nothing wrong and the purpose of that investigation is only to foster accusations as part of a political smear campaign? How many investigations does someone need to accept before before a particular incident or accusation is considered settled? One? Five? Eight? Who holds the investigators accountable? On some level I agree with everything you say above, but at the same time I see it as an over simplification of political and legal system that is tremendously complicated and nuanced and will never be as black and white as you suggest no matter how honest and accountable we want it to be.
"We deserve that"
I go back and forth on this. I don't disagree that "we" as individuals, each one of us, deserves better, and each of us has every right to expect better. But then again, "we" as a collective keep electing the same people and/or same types of people over and over again which just keeps on feeding the monster and on that level I can't help but think that we are getting exactly what we deserve.
Here's where I'm coming from. If some extremely dreadful and dire situation arises, chances are the government will be nowhere to be found (at least not right away.) More than likely, the immediate assistance you're going to receive will come from your neighbors and fellow citizens. And that will very likely come from both Liberals and Conservatives, politics won't matter much.
In that vein, I don't want to set the government up as some kind of enemy but want all citizens regardless of political affiliation to band together and demand ethics, accountability, and honesty from government. Speaking for myself, if the GOP is failing in this regard I would support any investigation into the matter, urge them to cooperate 100%. I would hope the situation is rectified either through criminal prosecution, resignation, or both if it's warranted. If that hurts the party, so be it. The government will have taken one more step toward integrity and I can live with that.
As far as the "witch hunt" concerns, it would seem that if you have nothing to hide, secrecy and stonewalling only fuels that fire. That's not a logical approach unless you want the witch hunt to continue. An innocent person with nothing to hide can end a witch hunt immediately by being open, cooperative, and honest. Not only that, he comes out smelling like rose while the accusers look like idiots.
As far as the "witch hunt" concerns, it would seem that if you have nothing to hide, secrecy and stonewalling only fuels that fire. That's not a logical approach unless you want the witch hunt to continue. An innocent person with nothing to hide can end a witch hunt immediately by being open, cooperative, and honest. Not only that, he comes out smelling like rose while the accusers look like idiots.
Thanks for clarifying and while I don't really disagree with you in principle on most of this, but I do think that this last paragraph that I have quoted in particular is more than a little naive. It seems akin on some level to telling someone that they should simply accept government monitoring of your email and phone communications or movements because if you have nothing to hide then what's the harm?
[Edited on 3/6/2015 by gondicar]
I want all white collar criminals held accountable. But I don't want to finance political party smear campaigns.
This is baffling. I want to see white collar criminals held accountable too, but they don't work for us. We don't pay them. However, not the case with politicians. The exact opposite is true. They are our employees.
Judging from your posts, it appears that the most crucial aspect to you is the cost of an investigation. Let's say we have a Congressman accepting bribes and illegal contributions, but IYO investigating him is too expensive. But it wouldn't bother you to keep paying his salary, benefits, and eventually his pension, too? Those costs don't bother you? Paying someone to break the Law?
Weeding out this slimeball is well worth the cost IMO. Beats the hell out of paying him for the rest of his life.
"If you've done nothing wrong then there's nothing to worry about."
That phrase is completely conditional on who says it, when they say it, how they say it and the situational context around it.
That exact phrase was used to justify the massive expansion of the Security/Surveillance State.
How's everyone feel about that these days?
"If you've done nothing wrong then there's nothing to worry about."
That phrase is completely conditional on who says it, when they say it, how they say it and the situational context around it.
That exact phrase was used to justify the massive expansion of the Security/Surveillance State.
How's everyone feel about that these days?
Who made that quote? Are you comparing the disposition of someone who is the subject of an ongoing investigation to the disposition of an ordinary citizen just going about the business of living their everyday life and facing no charges?
[Edited on 3/6/2015 by alloak41]
I actually think all these fake scandals help the Democrats. It makes the Republicans look like bloodthirsty idiots throwing all logic out the window, and then they get egg on their face each time when yet again they find nothing. Of course the partisan hacks continue to believe that there's something there when there isn't, but those people were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway regardless.
I actually think all these fake scandals help the Democrats. It makes the Republicans look like bloodthirsty idiots throwing all logic out the window, and then they get egg on their face each time when yet again they find nothing. Of course the partisan hacks continue to believe that there's something there when there isn't, but those people were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway regardless.
It helps them raise money. There is as much to the agenda of raising money as to the "scandal".
It is amazing that the liberals look past the criminal activity of the obama administration.
Are the liberals so wedded to their false prophet obama they don't care when crimes are committed against American Citizens?
It is amazing that the liberals look past the criminal activity of the obama administration.
Are the liberals so wedded to their false prophet obama they don't care when crimes are committed against American Citizens?
What is amazing is that you can't talk without generalizing. It shows a lack of critical thinking ability.
It is amazing that the liberals look past the criminal activity of the obama administration.
Are the liberals so wedded to their false prophet obama they don't care when crimes are committed against American Citizens?What is amazing is that you can't talk without generalizing. It shows a lack of critical thinking ability.
I saw his statement before I read your response, and I was going to post exactly what you stated. Good one, Keller.
It is amazing that the liberals look past the criminal activity of the obama administration.
Are the liberals so wedded to their false prophet obama they don't care when crimes are committed against American Citizens?
Maybe if some criminal activityis actually proven, they'll care. So far I'm not aware of any actual criminal activity, only parisan allegations that keep proving to be wrong.
Nothing can be a scandal if you get away with it. Getting away with it makes everything OK no matter what, not the truth.
Nothing can be a scandal if you get away with it. Getting away with it makes everything OK no matter what, not the truth.
Nothing can be a scandal if it is based on unfounded allegations. It becomes a scandal when illegality is proven, no matter what you, muledope or Fox News say.
When a government official gets into a tough spot, sometimes the path of least resistance has to be chosen. Option A is getting some heat over missing emails. Option B is getting into real trouble over what the emails might contain. Since B can't be proven without A, Option A is the easy choice. As long as they can get away without any serious charges, what do some stupid missing emails really matter?
Nothing can be a scandal if you get away with it. Getting away with it makes everything OK no matter what, not the truth.
Nothing can be a scandal if it is based on unfounded allegations. It becomes a scandal when illegality is proven, no matter what you, muledope or Fox News say.
_____________________________________________________________
It was The N.Y. Times that broke the email scandal.
It was The N.Y. Times that broke the foreign donations scandal.
It was CBS News that broke the Benghazi scandal.
It was The Washington Post that broke The Whitewater scandal.
It was The Washington Post that broke The Travelgate scandal.
etc... etc... etc...
Nothing can be a scandal if you get away with it. Getting away with it makes everything OK no matter what, not the truth.
Nothing can be a scandal if it is based on unfounded allegations. It becomes a scandal when illegality is proven, no matter what you, muledope or Fox News say.
_____________________________________________________________
It was The N.Y. Times that broke the email scandal.
It was The N.Y. Times that broke the foreign donations scandal.
It was CBS News that broke the Benghazi scandal.
It was The Washington Post that broke The Whitewater scandal.
It was The Washington Post that broke The Travelgate scandal.etc... etc... etc...
Which means nothing.
