Freedom sells, and it sells big.
That's freedom? Discrimination? Homophobia? Hatred?
That's your idea of freedom?
I find your exaltation repulsive.
Putting a NO GAYS OR BLACKS ALLOWED in the store window would be repulsive.
The owner plainly stated he was more than glad to serve any customer whatsoever all day long (and they have), but draws the line at being forced to participate in a ceremony. (the hypothetical question was posed as a gay wedding catering scenario)
The ability to make that decision, and not be FORCED by the government making it for him......
That's Freedom.
(and it sells big)
Up to almost $500k. Unbelievable!
Putting a NO GAYS OR BLACKS ALLOWED in the store window would be repulsive.
The owner plainly stated he was more than glad to serve any customer whatsoever all day long (and they have), but draws the line at being forced to participate in a ceremony. (the hypothetical question was posed as a gay wedding catering scenario)
The ability to make that decision, and not be FORCED by the government making it for him......
That's Freedom.
(and it sells big)
Alloak you are a making a distinction where one does not exist. Refusing service because of sexual preference is discriminatory.
That ain't freedom. It ain't Christian. It is reprehensible. Calling it freedom is disgusting.
That's Freedom.
(and it sells big)
It sure does. Now all we need is to have our best charities discriminate against gays, and then they'd raise a ton of money in no time. Democracy at work. I'd love to see a list of all the charities these pizzeria donors have contributed to in the past. My guess is that they care more about promoting discrimination than they do about world hunger and curing disease.
Can people stop already with the "religious freedom" b.s.? This story has nothing to do with religion. It's so sad and pathetic to hear the anti-gay population use religion as an excuse for their behavior. Stop hiding. These same "Christians" violate other Christian principles on a daily basis, but somehow they remain 100% disciplined when it comes to gay rights. Funny how they pick and choose which Christian values to practice. The Bible is a Rorschach Test.....people see what they want to see. If you are a bigot, you will find a message in the Bible that supports your belief. If you are not a bigot, you will read the same passage and it will support your belief. Wake up.
Putting a NO GAYS OR BLACKS ALLOWED in the store window would be repulsive.
The owner plainly stated he was more than glad to serve any customer whatsoever all day long (and they have), but draws the line at being forced to participate in a ceremony. (the hypothetical question was posed as a gay wedding catering scenario)
The ability to make that decision, and not be FORCED by the government making it for him......
That's Freedom.
(and it sells big)
Alloak you are a making a distinction where one does not exist. Refusing service because of sexual preference is discriminatory.
That ain't freedom. It ain't Christian. It is reprehensible. Calling it freedom is disgusting.
1. I'm not the one that's made the distinction. The pizza shop owner did. If it's me, I cater as many gay weddings I can get my hands on and pocket the money. Mama didn't raise no fool.
2. What's reprehensible and disgusting is the reaction to his decision IMO. The gay community has fought for years not to be ridiculed and bullied, to he accepted and respected as people even though they were "different." (as well they should have) Ironically, it looks like they've become exactly what they fought all those years against.
Again, calling people bigots and making death threats and other various threats is NOT the way to win folks over to your side and think like you do.
The pizza restaurant has raised almost 320,000 dollars.
amazingFreedom sells, and it sells big.
Apparently bigotry does too.
2. What's reprehensible and disgusting is the reaction to his decision IMO. The gay community has fought for years not to be ridiculed and bullied, to he accepted and respected as people even though they were "different." (as well they should have) Ironically, it looks like they've become exactly what they fought all those years against.
Your logic here doesn't hold water. Minority groups, such as the gay community, vowed to fight for equal rights, as we both agree they should. And until they finally achieve equality in all 50 states, they should continue to fight. They are fighting/bullying the pizzeria because the pizzeria is discriminating against them, hence the fight, which they should do. You are implying that the pizzeria is minding their own business, harming and discriminating against nobody, and gays come out of nowhere (no pun intended) and start bashing the pizzeria for some random reason. Who asked the pizzeria to make a statement in the first place?
Your logic suggests that a victim is a hypocrite for standing up for themselves. For example, I'm a kid at school getting beat up every day. I complain about it all the time and tell everyone that bullying is wrong. After getting beat up for the 20th time in a month, I decide to fight back and I kick the crap out of my bully. But then I'm labeled a hypocrite for fighting and bullying the bully.
Again, calling people bigots and making death threats and other various threats is NOT the way to win folks over to your side and think like you do.
Agreed. Whoever did that is stupid. Maybe Republicans should start adopting your strategy too.
[Edited on 4/3/2015 by BoytonBrother]
Putting a NO GAYS OR BLACKS ALLOWED in the store window would be repulsive.
The owner plainly stated he was more than glad to serve any customer whatsoever all day long (and they have), but draws the line at being forced to participate in a ceremony. (the hypothetical question was posed as a gay wedding catering scenario)
The ability to make that decision, and not be FORCED by the government making it for him......
That's Freedom.
(and it sells big)
Alloak you are a making a distinction where one does not exist. Refusing service because of sexual preference is discriminatory.
That ain't freedom. It ain't Christian. It is reprehensible. Calling it freedom is disgusting.
1. I'm not the one that's made the distinction. The pizza shop owner did. If it's me, I cater as many gay weddings I can get my hands on and pocket the money. Mama didn't raise no fool.
2. What's reprehensible and disgusting is the reaction to his decision IMO. The gay community has fought for years not to be ridiculed and bullied, to he accepted and respected as people even though they were "different." (as well they should have) Ironically, it looks like they've become exactly what they fought all those years against.
Again, calling people bigots and making death threats and other various threats is NOT the way to win folks over to your side and think like you do.
alloak is showing his hypocritical underbelly again. He seems to have no problem assigning the reprehensible behavior of a few to the entire gay community, which is exactly the kind of thing he has no problem calling out others for (now watch him deny it).
alloak, do you really think that because a few misguided people made threats that the gay community as a whole should be dismissed because "they've become exactly what they fought all those years against"? Really?
alloak, do you really think that because a few misguided people made threats that the gay community as a whole should be dismissed because "they've become exactly what they fought all those years against"? Really?
No. I don't think he's referring to the people who made threats. I think he was referring to the gay community initiating boycotts and criticisms of people and businesses like the pizzeria. In other words, he thinks the gay community should respect and tolerate places like the pizzeria, since gays preach tolerance themselves. It's flawed logic.
It looks like a lot more than just "a few" threats were made against the business. I'm not surprised there are people here that condone it. Maybe a dose of violence would scare the owner of that business into agreeing with them. That's not flawed logic at all.
alloak, do you really think that because a few misguided people made threats that the gay community as a whole should be dismissed because "they've become exactly what they fought all those years against"? Really?
No. I don't think he's referring to the people who made threats. I think he was referring to the gay community initiating boycotts and criticisms of people and businesses like the pizzeria. In other words, he thinks the gay community should respect and tolerate places like the pizzeria, since gays preach tolerance themselves. It's flawed logic.
It's called practicing what you preach. Totally flawed concept.
The making of threats is wrong. As is violence.
The idea that catering a wedding is participating in the vows or the beliefs is complete and utter horse $hit and alloak knows that.
Refusing service because of a person color, beliefs, sexual preference, is discrimination.
The people giving this pizza parlor money are hate filled bigots who want the country to walk in lock step with their beliefs. They are dangerous. They have no right to impose their beliefs on others.
I liked this article
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/opinions/jillette-indiana-law/index.html
Penn Jillette: In Indiana, let them eat gay wedding cake
By Penn Jillette
Updated 7:21 PM ET, Thu April 2, 2015
(CNN)—I'm an atheist, a libertarian and I'm in favor of many, many, many kinds of sex. This puts me in an awkward position with all this chitter chatter about that goofy Indiana law. People want the right to not serve people because their well-established loving religion demands that to get into heaven they not make cake for people who are gay.
I've read the Bible cover to cover, and I've never seen that in there, but, I'm an atheist, so I may have scales over my eyes while I read -- what do I know?
I was listening to some whack job (I should say some other whack job, because I was on the same TV panel) talk about how some Christians might not think gay sex was right and needed the legal right to act on that belief.
It's OK to not like some forms of sex. I'm sure there's some form of sex that I don't like, I just haven't encountered it yet. If anyone invites me to a kind of sex I don't want -- I will say no ... at least after I've tried it a couple times.
My job is doing a Vegas magic show. I bet if I really researched all the people in our audiences, I would find people in our crowds who I had fundamental disagreements with. I would still want to do the show for them. That's my job. I'm trying to sell about a quarter of a million tickets a year to Penn & Teller, and that ain't easy.
I might not agree with Scientologists or chiropractors, but I want them to come to my show. Who knows, just being around us, might wise them up, or even better, might wise me up. I like to change my mind and it's good business to be in business with people you don't agree with.
All that being said, as a libertarian, I believe that people have the right to be stupid and run their businesses in a stupid way. And then the big old invisible hand gets visible and the stupid businesses go out of business. It doesn't always work, but it often does.
I don't think we need a special law that says certain people get to be rude to other people because they think God is on their side, but I also don't want a law that says I have to do business with people I disagree with if I'm a really stupid business person.
If it seems my position is confusing, it's because I'm contradicting myself. I think refusing service to anyone for a theoretical disagreement is stupid, stupid, stupid. And I also think that if we make stupid illegal, everyone goes to prison.
So, I want everyone to be treated equally and I want as much freedom to be stupid as possible.
I'm OK with holding those contrary beliefs and not really deciding, because ... it's not going to be a problem for long. The acceptance of LGBT lifestyle is moving so fast that soon some of these backwards people are going to be worried that they'll need a law to get cake for themselves.
So, yeah, my whole position on this is ... let them eat cake.
It looks like a lot more than just "a few" threats were made against the business.
And every one of them was wrong, but that doesn't mean they are representative of the millions of gay Americans and the millions more (more than half the country according to recent polls) who support their efforts to achieve social justice and equality. And if you believe that they do, then by that same logic you must be a bigot because I've seen and read about more than just a few bigoted signs and comments and threats made by other conservatives against gays, people of color, muslims, etc. (I'm not suggesting you are a bigot in any way, just making a hypothetical example of where your logic leads). Perhaps we could just agree that such behavior is wrong no matter who does it?
I'm not surprised there are people here that condone it.
Like who?
Maybe a dose of violence would scare the owner of that business into agreeing with them. That's not flawed logic at all.
Of course that is flawed logic, are you crazy?
[Edited on 4/3/2015 by gondicar]
These RFRA's have been around for decades and Christians have yet to establish segregated lunch lines. And the Indiana RFRA does nothing to allow discrimination.
This is nothing but the latest attempt of the Left to demonize a group it doesn't like, or views as the opposition. That's all it is.
Settle down, brothers and sisters. There are not hordes of Christians hiding around every corner, waiting to refuse services to any certain group. It's gonna be alright.
no...they're hiding around the corner for other reasons.
catholic priests???
no...al shabbab. Here in the good ol' U. S. of A. we have these freedoms to express ourselves, to worship where we want without the threat of violence. However, I have brothers and sisters around the world who have to be in constant fear, for practicing the same faith that I do, under the constant threat of annihilation. Kenya yesterday, 147 of my brothers and sisters killed for being Christian.
meanwhile, in Madison, Wisconsin, a new law making it illegal to discriminate against atheists. God bless America.
my agape love...indeed tested daily.
my agape love...indeed tested daily.
Who's isn't?
I'm not surprised there are people here that condone it.
You are above statements like this. Don't be like Muleman for God's sake.
It's called practicing what you preach. Totally flawed concept.
Should a victim of schoolyard bullying not defend himself?
my agape love...indeed tested daily.
Who's isn't?
really?
The making of threats is wrong. As is violence.
The idea that catering a wedding is participating in the vows or the beliefs is complete and utter horse $hit and alloak knows that.
Refusing service because of a person color, beliefs, sexual preference, is discrimination.
The people giving this pizza parlor money are hate filled bigots who want the country to walk in lock step with their beliefs. They are dangerous. They have no right to impose their beliefs on others.
1. But both are condoned by leftists to punish people they don't agree with. Obviously.
2. You're telling the wrong person. I can't claim to know what's inside that pizza shop owners head. He could be lying, but I'm not 100% sure.
3. So a Jewish group wants a devout Muslim t-shirt merchant to produce 15 shirts with a picture of Mohammed hanging from a tree. He's not free to turn down the order?
4. Fair enough. Neither should the gay community, then.
aybe a dose of violence would scare the owner of that business into agreeing with them. That's not flawed logic at all.
Of course that is flawed logic, are you crazy?
[Edited on 4/3/2015 by gondicar]
Sarcasm doesn't show on web postings very well. Sorry.
you've got to use this> 😉
of course, those of us who LIVE by this> 😉 understood you some time ago...
😉
Should a victim of schoolyard bullying not defend himself?
Is the act of declining to cater a wedding a violent act, one that causes actual bodily harm, injury, or death?
So let's recap:
-we have a tiny pizzeria in a small town, admittedly Christian oriented, doesn't even offer catering according to yelp.com, pizza probably is mediocre at best, but the locals probably love it because it is a small community.
-we have a REPORTER who decides to make a story out of nothing, ask them a total hypothetical question, to which they answer honestly, according to their beliefs.
-said REPORTER then spreads that answer to a hypothetical question far and wide.
-small pizzeria is subjected to hate phone calls, emails, had their website defaced - decides to shutdown.
Some thoughts:
-what couple would have a pizza joint cater their wedding to begin with?
-I suspect if a person called this pizza joint and simply ordered 50 large pizzas to go, have them ready at 3:00 Saturday, the pizza joint would have been overjoyed and complied happily.
-people who used to make those signs that said "Management reserves the right to refuse service" are quaking in their shoes, reworking their business plans.
I'm not surprised there are people here that condone it.
You are above statements like this.
Yes, that was wrong. I apologize.
my agape love...indeed tested daily.
Who's isn't?
really?
Yes, for people who have agape love in their hearts, I believe so.
3. So a Jewish group wants a devout Muslim t-shirt merchant to produce 15 shirts with a picture of Mohammed hanging from a tree. He's not free to turn down the order?
You have got to be kidding me. You are equating a request to cater a wedding to a request to print images of a God being lynched from a tree?
Here's how I feel about it all. I do see both sides. To be honest, while I abhor the ugliness of our reality, I cannot support any legal punishment of a business or individual if they turn down a request for something specific to religion, like a wedding. If they refuse service to anyone who walks in their store to order a pizza, then they should be shut down and fined.
The real issue for me is the comlete and utter horsesh*t excuse that their decision is based on their so-called religion. If you are going to cite your religion as the excuse, then you better not be violating any other Christian value....no masturbation, no thinking of sex, no swearing, no TV or movies with profanity or nudity, no mixing meat and dairy together (no cheeseburgers), no getting drunk, no lying, no magic shows, be uncircumcised, no clipping the edge of your beard, no planting more than one kind of seed in a field, no women speaking in church, etc.
Funny how Christians allowed some of these rules to evolve...but the homsexual rule stands strong!!!! That is what you call a conscious choice to pick and choose what Christian values are worth practicing.
I'd have much more respect for people like the pizzeria owners if they were simply strong enough to have the courage of their convictions....don't hide behind religion. Just say that you are grossed out by gays and you don't want anything to do with them. I can respect that more.
[Edited on 4/3/2015 by BoytonBrother]
3. So a Jewish group wants a devout Muslim t-shirt merchant to produce 15 shirts with a picture of Mohammed hanging from a tree. He's not free to turn down the order?
You have got to be kidding me. You are equating a request to cater a wedding to a request to print images of a God being lynched from a tree?
Here's how I feel about it all. I do see both sides. To be honest, while I abhor the ugliness of our reality, I cannot support any legal punishment of a business or individual if they turn down a request for something specific to religion, like a wedding. If they refuse service to anyone who walks in their store to order a pizza, then they should be shut down and fined.
The real issue for me is the comlete and utter horsesh*t excuse that their decision is based on their so-called religion. If you are going to cite your religion as the excuse, then you better not be violating any other Christian value....no masturbation, no thinking of sex, no swearing, no TV or movies with profanity or nudity, no mixing meat and dairy together (no cheeseburgers), no getting drunk, no lying, no magic shows, be uncircumcised, no clipping the edge of your beard, no planting more than one kind of seed in a field, no women speaking in church, etc.
Funny how Christians allowed some of these rules to evolve...but the homsexual rule stands strong!!!! That is what you call a conscious choice to pick and choose what Christian values are worth practicing.
I'd have much more respect for people like the pizzeria owners if they were simply strong enough to have the courage of their convictions....don't hide behind religion. Just say that you are grossed out by gays and you don't want anything to do with them. I can respect that more.
[Edited on 4/3/2015 by BoytonBrother]
That meat dairy thing. I wonder if they serve sausage pizza. 😛
quote:
The making of threats is wrong. As is violence.The idea that catering a wedding is participating in the vows or the beliefs is complete and utter horse $hit and alloak knows that.
Refusing service because of a person color, beliefs, sexual preference, is discrimination.
The people giving this pizza parlor money are hate filled bigots who want the country to walk in lock step with their beliefs. They are dangerous. They have no right to impose their beliefs on others.
1. But both are condoned by leftists to punish people they don't agree with. Obviously.
2. You're telling the wrong person. I can't claim to know what's inside that pizza shop owners head. He could be lying, but I'm not 100% sure.
3. So a Jewish group wants a devout Muslim t-shirt merchant to produce 15 shirts with a picture of Mohammed hanging from a tree. He's not free to turn down the order?
4. Fair enough. Neither should the gay community, then.
Nobody is requiring you to have gay sex alloak.
I said the making of threats is wrong as is violence.
You said, " But both are condoned by leftists to punish people they don't agree with. Obviously."
That is a bull$hit, lying attack. Why do you group huge groups of people together to denigrate that entire group? That is exactly bigotry, hatred, and discrimination.
Have people on the right ever condoned punishing people they don't agree with? Obviously???
I guess the bottom line is that your religion tells you to hate and exile gay people from your life. Good job!
You better hope St. Peter isn't gay.
http://wishtv.com/2015/04/03/rfra-has-created-dueling-gofundme-campaigns-in-indiana/
RFRA has created dueling GoFundMe campaigns in Indiana
By Staff Reports
Published: April 3, 2015, 11:50 am
INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The state of Indiana is watching dueling GoFundMe campaigns after the firestorm of RFRA.
One was established for Memories Pizza and the other for LGBT youth in Indiana.
Memories Pizza is the Indiana pizza shop whose owners said their religious beliefs wouldn’t allow them to cater a gay wedding.
Their GoFundMe site, benefiting the restaurant had raised more than $550,000 as of Friday morning.
The Indiana Youth Group had a campaign established to raise funds that is in direct response to the Memories Pizza campaign.
As of Friday morning, they had raised $2,700.
Their GoFundMe site states that “Take a minute after you’re done trolling Memories on Yelp and being angry about it on Facebook and Twitter and put $1 where your mouth is and do something positive that will have a direct impact on LGBT youth in the state of Indiana.”
Hey ! Excellent, now we have something.
Let's give it, what, a month? two months? See which gofundme raises more money.
