What's confusing about this is that giving people access to different payment systems is considered choice and because there is individual choice this type of exchange is considered market driven. This seems to be the prevalent mentality and it obscures the fact that in respect to the actual service or product we have very little choice.
In order for any health service or product to be paid for by insurance it has to be related to allopathic care. And the primary party that benefits from allopathic care is big pharma because allopathic doctors extensively use the products of big pharma. This is one of the reasons that big pharma lobbies extensively against any health strategy that is non--allopathic, as these systems seldom use the products of big pharma.
In respect to health care we are conceptually trapped in a system governed by two symbiotic monopolies. The costs of big pharma are high because there is no diversity in the delivery of health care. The salaries of allopathic doctors are high because they are the only health providers paid by most insurers.
If you look at most European health care markets there is a lot of diversity in choice about what type of health care to use. And it is this choice that brings down costs. Homeopathic medicine has been around almost as long as allopathic medicine and yoga and acupuncture are ancient in comparison. And these alternative medicines are mostly safe. I say mostly because there is always going to be some allopathic scribe who will tell you that you'll bleed to death if you go to an acupuncturist.
And the alternate care systems work very well for colds, influenza and most kinds of body pain. These are also the ailments that keep people out of work which lowers productivity. There are plenty of reasons to diversify health care but we are slaves to allopathy and big pharma.
Sad and pathetic that Trump has failed so much so early. Failed executive orders, failed at passing his healthcare reform. Failure! Very bad. Very bad.
Sad and pathetic that Trump has failed so much so early. Failed executive orders, failed at passing his healthcare reform. Failure! Very bad. Very bad.
Not to mention failing to get Mexico to pay for the wall. Who would have ever guessed that Mexico would have refused? But on the bright side his coal mining friends are now allowed to pollute our rivers and streams, so at least he should be happy about that.
Who pays isn't the issue.
It most certainly is in the current state.
If medical costs were reduced by 1/4
How?
I'm no fan of gov't run single payer for the US. It might work in some places, but I seriously doubt it would here (see the VA).
What does single payer have to do with the VA? There's a ton of measures in place by both the VA and CMS that prevent them from paying out anything to providers at all.
That's the legacy of group buying, and a big contributing factor to why providers aren't faced with questions about how much something costs. If we stopped the group coverage, health care consumers would pay a lot more attention to costs, forcing providers to be much more visible in their pricing. Unless we stop the cycle of why one person can get charged 5x more than the next due to what insurance they have, this will never be improved.
This requires the uncoupling of insurance as an employer benefit. Not sure if that's possible after 75 some odd years.
1) Shifting around "who pays" has done nothing to improve care, and only a little to improve the number covered (at very high cost). Even with Obamacare, millions remain uncovered. If we remain locked in the "who pays" discussion, that will just continue.
2) "How" is trusting what the free market does when having to survive based on creating satisfied customers. Health care doesn't have to do that today because the purchase and payment part of the equation is so distorted compared to any other product or service. The Swiss system does this without imposing a heavy gov't hand and they're about a 1/3rd less costly than we are.
3) The point about the VA was simply an example of our gov't running a health care program, and its resulting quality. Single payer fans just ignore that mess and think if instituted countrywide, it would be great. No, it would be a nightmare, and the Federal gov't would never function again because they'd be stuck in an endless loop of health care issues. Just look at how much time they now waste on the relatively small issues of how Obamacare works, then multiply that countless times when adding every single decision about running health care for the nation to their burden.
4) The employee benefit of health care doesn't have to change. Employees would just receive funds to purchase their health care as individuals, the way all other insurance is purchased. Gov't benefits would be rearranged the same way. This is the Swiss system. It forces the consumer to be more involved, but benefits from that in terms of lower costs.
Some very disturbing predictions today from the NY side IF the Obamacare replacement coverage in it's original form were passed.
NY's Governor Cuomo said:
“Life has options, and the hard reality is that Collins and Faso are leaving New York State with only two unacceptable choices,” Cuomo said. “Either we could pass on the devastating cuts to our hospitals, nursing homes and the 40% of New Yorkers who currently receive Medicaid and health benefits. Or, we would be forced to raise state income taxes — either by increasing taxes on all New Yorkers by 10%, or if Collins and Faso have their way in protecting only the wealthy, on the middle class by 26%.”
The shift would add $2.3 billion to the state budget, bringing the total loss the state is looking at under the House bill to $6.9 billion over the next four years, he said.Cuomo said that under the bill, 2.7 million New Yorkers will lose health coverage while hospitals will see funding cut by $355 million.
Cuomo called it “absurd” to ask the state to cover the costs at the same time the health care bill provides a $150 billion tax cut to the 1% richest Americans and a $54 billion increase in defense spending.
“The thought would be somehow our governor, being as inept as he is, can’t find a single dollar of savings in a $63 billion Medicaid program over the next three years, I mean, give me a break, governor,” Collins said.
Cuomo warned that the cuts would affect those who need help the most, including nursing home payments being slashed by $401 million, home care payments by $360 million, and hospital payments by $355 Million.
REMARKS: Contentious? Oh yes. There seem to be a lot of points where Democrats and Republicans are at odds. The states do not have enough money to run their programs, the insurance companies cannot afford to provide 'affordable' coverage to the many people who need the coverage, and it is NOT just New York. Imagine this scenario nationwide. The Democrats said they would filibuster if the Vote was taken on the American Health Care Act, and Trump realized he was 7 votes short on the Republican side, so he had Ryan pull the bill and the vote was not held. Trump does not want to waste time. If the bill has no way of passing, why waste everybody's time? He will work on other things, if the others do not want to seriously work on the bill. I have not seen the specifics of the bill, but have heard criticisms of it from many sources. Bernie Sanders was able to make health care affordable in Vermont, maybe some of the Reps need to meet with Bernie, and dare I say, even Bill Clinton probably has valuable advice. He is smart, balanced a Nationwide budget, and let the country with a surplus. He knows how to do those things.
[Edited on 3/24/2017 by gina]
Just yesterday Republicans were screaming that the Affordable Care Act would destroy America within practically days.....Now that their turd of a bill went down in flames it's, oh well, f*ck it, let's just move on....Or, they could actually work with the other side and actually work to improve the problems (and there certainly are serious problems associated with the Affordable Care Act) now and moving forward long into the future.
But then again healthcare in this country has been a mess for decades and requires true leadership and compromise and not the partisan rhetoric that seems to be the only thing Washington is good at these days.
Lastly, in typical Trump fashion, if he doesn't get his way he just leaves a mess for someone else to clean up. Where are those amazing negotiating skills, little Donnie? Where is the plan that'll provide better coverage for less and for everyone? What a charade con artist we have in the oval office.
Just yesterday Republicans were screaming that the Affordable Care Act would destroy America within practically days.....Now that their turd of a bill went down in flames it's, oh well, f*ck it, let's just move on....Or, they could actually work with the other side and actually work to improve the problems (and there certainly are serious problems associated with the Affordable Care Act) now and moving forward long into the future.
But then again healthcare in this country has been a mess for decades and requires true leadership and compromise and not the partisan rhetoric that seems to be the only thing Washington is good at these days.
Lastly, in typical Trump fashion, if he doesn't get his way he just leaves a mess for someone else to clean up. Where are those amazing negotiating skills, little Donnie? Where is the plan that'll provide better coverage for less and for everyone? What a charade con artist we have in the oval office.
The emperor is learning he is not quite the deal maker that he's bragged about being. Instead Trump/ Ryan Care doesn't get off the ground and would be easily compared to the Trump's bankruptcies. They both share about the same amount of success.
The irony is that the GOP attempted to repeal Obamacare what 40, 50, 60 some times, and now that they had the chance to actually do it they failed. It goes to show that 8 years of doing nothing but saying "no" does not translate on how to govern.
Oh well...on to building the wall that the American taxpayers will foot the bill for if it ever gets built. Who will Donnie blame when he FAILS to get Mexico to pay for it as he promised if it does get built?
Just yesterday Republicans were screaming that the Affordable Care Act would destroy America within practically days.....Now that their turd of a bill went down in flames it's, oh well, f*ck it, let's just move on....Or, they could actually work with the other side and actually work to improve the problems (and there certainly are serious problems associated with the Affordable Care Act) now and moving forward long into the future.
But then again healthcare in this country has been a mess for decades and requires true leadership and compromise and not the partisan rhetoric that seems to be the only thing Washington is good at these days.
Lastly, in typical Trump fashion, if he doesn't get his way he just leaves a mess for someone else to clean up. Where are those amazing negotiating skills, little Donnie? Where is the plan that'll provide better coverage for less and for everyone? What a charade con artist we have in the oval office.
The emperor is learning he is not quite the deal maker that he's bragged about being. Instead Trump/ Ryan Care doesn't get off the ground and would be easily compared to the Trump's bankruptcies. They both share about the same amount of success.
The irony is that the GOP attempted to repeal Obamacare what 40, 50, 60 some times, and now that they had the chance to actually do it they failed. It goes to show that 8 years of doing nothing but saying "no" does not translate on how to govern.
Oh well...on to building the wall that the American taxpayers will foot the bill for if it ever gets built. Who will Donnie blame when he FAILS to get Mexico to pay for it as he promised if it does get built?
No doubt he'll blame most everything he fails at (and I suspect his list of failures will be long before he's booted out of the White House) on Obama, the Dems, and the courts. Oh, and the left wing media....
He has the demeanor of someone who doesn't want to be there.
Trump doesn't like defeat. He needs to win. Since the Republican side was 7 votes short of passage, they had 20 yes votes, they needed 7 more; he has decided to just walk away from it. When Obamacare 'implodes' as he calls it, he figures everyone will be more cooperative. The subsidies for people buying into the exchange to get insurance were only legislated for one year, so if somebody signed up for Obamacare, they got subsidized for one year, then they might have to pay the full premiums themselves, what then? They can't, they lose insurance, get hit with tax penalties and do not get health care. Many of the insurance companies already realized they cannot afford to provide care under the reimbursement rates for people insured through the exchange, so there is crisis there also.
The act that they put forward as a replacement still left 24 million people without insurance so it did not totally fix the problem. I mentioned the problems the states could face with New York as an example, so the health care crisis will not be just resolving itself.
Trump's next project is Tax Reform. Ohhh boy. This will be an even hotter debate among Congress.
I wonder if Trump will reach the point if he cannot get things done where he just says fuk y'all, see how you like it when things get worse. When they get bad enough then you will work to fix them.
Meanwhile we are on the verge of world war, you just have not heard about it yet.
Trump doesn't like defeat. He needs to win. Since the Republican side was 7 votes short of passage, they had 20 yes votes, they needed 7 more; he has decided to just walk away from it. When Obamacare 'implodes' as he calls it, he figures everyone will be more cooperative. The subsidies for people buying into the exchange to get insurance were only legislated for one year, so if somebody signed up for Obamacare, they got subsidized for one year, then they might have to pay the full premiums themselves, what then? They can't, they lose insurance, get hit with tax penalties and do not get health care. Many of the insurance companies already realized they cannot afford to provide care under the reimbursement rates for people insured through the exchange, so there is crisis there also.
The act that they put forward as a replacement still left 24 million people without insurance so it did not totally fix the problem. I mentioned the problems the states could face with New York as an example, so the health care crisis will not be just resolving itself.
Trump's next project is Tax Reform. Ohhh boy. This will be an even hotter debate among Congress.
I wonder if Trump will reach the point if he cannot get things done where he just says fuk y'all, see how you like it when things get worse. When they get bad enough then you will work to fix them.
Meanwhile we are on the verge of world war, you just have not heard about it yet.
You say that the emperor doesn't like defeat & needs to win. Newsflash - under his ownership & leadership, he just suffered a MAJOR DEFEAT. Quite frankly, if one listens to his talks and rants, he really never seemed to talk as if he understood much of the policy nor details of the plan. What was in the plan went against much of his campaign rhetoric. In the end & as usual, he blamed the democrats, yet it was his own GOP that trashed this bad piece of legislation.
As ACA needs some enhancements / maintenance, the GOP plan would have destroyed the lives of millions. The GOP had 7 or 8 years to get their act together, and look what happened.
Now he's on to another of his campaign issues. Wait until tax reform when the rich get major relief and the middle class & the poor get leftover crumbs. The policy and details will end up far from his campaign promises. He's not delivering on much of his promises. That's why he's < 40% in favorability ratings and probably heading south.
The GOP had 7 years to figure out the healthcare thing and it was an epic failure right out of the gate. Trump's comments after yesterday's defeat were classic Donald Trump. No depth, no eloquence, no ownership, no class, no truth, no leadership. No president. With his companies, now is when he usually declares bankruptcy and moves on...the country won't be so lucky, but he still might not be around much longer #russia
He has the demeanor of someone who doesn't want to be there.
Agree....In fact, right from the moment he was declared the winner it was very obvious that he not only didn't want to be president, but that he knew he was WAY over his head. He had that "deer in the headlights" look on his face.
The guy simply hasn't the intellect, curiosity, demeanor, maturity or passion for governing to be POTUS. It's more and more evident that entering the race was always about getting attention, building his brand, and monetizing that attention. It was never about actually being president.
What I don't understand is why some in the Republican party back this turd of a president despite his obvious ineptness when Pence is far more their conservative stool pigeon and would be their wet dream occupant of the White House if Trump were booted. I think it's this scenario that many within the party are coming to terms with.
While I'm not a fan of Pence and his platform, at least the guy is an adult and somewhat intelligent beyond just marketing, real estate, and bankruptcy law.
[Edited on 3/25/2017 by Chain]
A question for the far brighter folks on this site than I (and there are lots of you here...which is why I hang here....I've learned a lot over the years from many sides to a lot of issues...Thank you all, by the way). If Trump were to be impeached, I can't help but wonder given this was the actual election, not a few years in like Nixon or as I like to call him, "Sweet William Now" Billy Clinton, would Pence also be susceptible to impeachment? What does the actual Constitution dictate?
Especially if he colluded once he was chosen for the ticket, should they prove he did? Assume a felony and thus the first impeachment proceedings against a VP? Or am I wrong, has a VP previously been impeached?
Chime in everyone....Or as Willie Nelson would say, "Let me hear you Micky"
😛
[Edited on 3/25/2017 by Chain]
[Edited on 3/25/2017 by Chain]
[Edited on 3/25/2017 by Chain]
[Edited on 3/25/2017 by Chain]
Spiro Agnew resigned...
Less than a year before Richard M. Nixon’s resignation as president of the United States, Spiro Agnew becomes the first U.S. vice president to resign in disgrace. The same day, he pleaded no contest to a charge of federal income tax evasion in exchange for the dropping of charges of political corruption. He was subsequently fined $10,000, sentenced to three years probation, and disbarred by the Maryland court of appeals.
Ah, I see...Thank you Sang. Now we know the blind devotion to the Idiot in Chief, Little Donnie....Pence might not survive either and thus all hands on deck no matter how nuts the Captain might be.
Could Trump be our Caligula? Seriously?
Actually, Caligula was far brighter than Trump....I retract the question... 😛
[Edited on 3/25/2017 by Chain]
I do feel sorry for people like this guy who bought into the Trump Train campaign lies and now regret it, but for the life of me I just can't understand how they could have been so badly duped in the first place...these are not dumb people, yet it was so obvious...now we all are paying for it. 🙁
I have no idea why so many bought into Don the Cons' lies, but Crooked Hillary's emails don't seem to be such a big deal now.
The Trump supporters weren't duped. They never cared whether he could enact his policies or not. They just admired someone who was willing to be as hostile as he was/is. They just want the hostility - nothing more, nothing less. Accomplishments? not important.
I think many Trump voters probably knew the guy is and has always been a lying con artist. I mean, really, how could anyone not who did the most basic research on him? His past is littered with broken promises, screwing contractors, outright lying, failed business ventures, etc....I think many voters were and are still simply frustrated with Washington and the two party system that is corrupt as hell and simply wanted someone, anyone, to blow it up.
Then of course there's those who believe government should be run like a business, even if their chosen candidate isn't actually very good at running actual businesses despite said candidate portraying himself as being a successful business man. He's a master marketer/shyster who plays the con of being a good business man.
I saw Kathleen Sebelius on Don Lemon I think it was the other night. And Lemon posed her a question, "some people complain that they are forced to pay for things they don't need or want in their insurance policies, as in mental health care, maternity care for a man, etc". Sebelius' response is "those people don't understand how insurance works" (kind of laughing while she is saying it).
With all due respect to Mrs Sebelius, I remember how private health insurance plans worked before ACA when premiums were lower and when many people got the appropriate coverage for their needs (without having ACA mandated provisions in the plan).
I wonder if Mrs Sebelius understands how insurance works? Because choice in what you want to pay for and what you want covered is found in all other forms of major insurance.
Take home insurance. First of all, wide ranging choice of deductibles are available, in either dollar amounts or percentage of home value (and when deductibles go up, the premium goes down - in inverse was true with ACA). Then, you can insure the home for market value or replacement cost; and within this you the homeowner can submit a professional appraisal or quote from a certified home builder to determine the replace cost coverage you want (as in you don't just have to rely upon the insurance company to tell you how much it will take to rebuild your home). You can work to set a customized value for contents, with special provisions for collectables. You can choose different coverage levels of liability coverage. You can purchase earthquake coverage, or special policies for additional high wind/hail or flood/water backup coverage. Mold remediation coverage can be increased. If you have detached building on the property, coverage levels for those buildings can be selected. So many varied choices to customized coverage to suit one's needs or wants with different price points along the way.
Let's look at auto coverage. Again, off the bat, you can choose a deducible that fulfills your objective and the premiums is priced accordingly (higher deductible = lower premium, the way insurance pricing is supposed to work). I can have comprehensive, liability only, or fire & theft only. I can determine what extent of liability coverage I want to pay for. I can select or reject under insured / uninsured motorist coverage. I can pick certain coverage for hail damage or cracked windshield replacement. I can get a premium discount for safe driving record.
There is alot of choice in home and auto policies and alot of opportunity to save in not paying for coverage that one doesn't need or want. It doesn't sound to me like Mrs Sebelius is very familiar with how other insurance works. Thankfully she wasn't in charge of changing the home or auto insurance industry.
The Trump supporters weren't duped. They never cared whether he could enact his policies or not. They just admired someone who was willing to be as hostile as he was/is. They just want the hostility - nothing more, nothing less. Accomplishments? not important.
Not so, he had and has a platform of changes he wants to make, and that is why people voted for him. People want tax reform, and he is on that right now. People want the illegal immigration to be effectively dealt with, it is my understanding bids will be accepted in April for the building of the wall, and construction can begin within 6 months. Trump is a man of action, and he will try his hardest to make America great again. I will concede that the health care proposal needs more work.
I saw Kathleen Sebelius on Don Lemon I think it was the other night. And Lemon posed her a question, "some people complain that they are forced to pay for things they don't need or want in their insurance policies, as in mental health care, maternity care for a man, etc". Sebelius' response is "those people don't understand how insurance works" (kind of laughing while she is saying it).
With all due respect to Mrs Sebelius, I remember how private health insurance plans worked before ACA when premiums were lower and when many people got the appropriate coverage for their needs (without having ACA mandated provisions in the plan).
I wonder if Mrs Sebelius understands how insurance works? Because choice in what you want to pay for and what you want covered is found in all other forms of major insurance.
Take home insurance. First of all, wide ranging choice of deductibles are available, in either dollar amounts or percentage of home value (and when deductibles go up, the premium goes down - in inverse was true with ACA). Then, you can insure the home for market value or replacement cost; and within this you the homeowner can submit a professional appraisal or quote from a certified home builder to determine the replace cost coverage you want (as in you don't just have to rely upon the insurance company to tell you how much it will take to rebuild your home). You can work to set a customized value for contents, with special provisions for collectables. You can choose different coverage levels of liability coverage. You can purchase earthquake coverage, or special policies for additional high wind/hail or flood/water backup coverage. Mold remediation coverage can be increased. If you have detached building on the property, coverage levels for those buildings can be selected. So many varied choices to customized coverage to suit one's needs or wants with different price points along the way.
Let's look at auto coverage. Again, off the bat, you can choose a deducible that fulfills your objective and the premiums is priced accordingly (higher deductible = lower premium, the way insurance pricing is supposed to work). I can have comprehensive, liability only, or fire & theft only. I can determine what extent of liability coverage I want to pay for. I can select or reject under insured / uninsured motorist coverage. I can pick certain coverage for hail damage or cracked windshield replacement. I can get a premium discount for safe driving record.
There is alot of choice in home and auto policies and alot of opportunity to save in not paying for coverage that one doesn't need or want. It doesn't sound to me like Mrs Sebelius is very familiar with how other insurance works. Thankfully she wasn't in charge of changing the home or auto insurance industry.
Not to repeat myself too much (which I've been known to do) but if you elect not to insure your car for replacement value and it is totaled you are not driving away with a new one. If you underinsure your health and show up at the ER at 3:00AM you are going to be treated by the hospital and its physicians for whatever ails you. Yes; it may bankrupt you. But one can't get blood from a stone.
And down to detail. If a Jehovah's witness signs up for insurance that doesn't cover blood transfusions and/or organ transplantation and changes their mind it is malpractice to deny them the service
The Trump supporters weren't duped. They never cared whether he could enact his policies or not. They just admired someone who was willing to be as hostile as he was/is. They just want the hostility - nothing more, nothing less. Accomplishments? not important.
Not so, he had and has a platform of changes he wants to make, and that is why people voted for him. People want tax reform, and he is on that right now. People want the illegal immigration to be effectively dealt with, it is my understanding bids will be accepted in April for the building of the wall, and construction can begin within 6 months. Trump is a man of action, and he will try his hardest to make America great again. I will concede that the health care proposal needs more work.
For 8 years the Republicans made it priority #1 to repeal, and sometimes, to repeal and replace "Obamacare". And Donald Trump is the Republican President, the Republicans have a majority in the House of Representatives and have previously passed ACA repeal bills.
I'm not vested in this, but Trump and the Republicans are certainly vested in this...neck deep. 8 years, Eight Years...they told people they would do this, and they - or he - couldn't. "People" may want tax reform and "people" may want immigration reform, those issues strike much closer to my area of interest, but you just can't say 'oh well' and move on now and act like nobody else is watching or cares.
Not to repeat myself too much (which I've been known to do) but if you elect not to insure your car for replacement value and it is totaled you are not driving away with a new one. If you underinsure your health and show up at the ER at 3:00AM you are going to be treated by the hospital and its physicians for whatever ails you. Yes; it may bankrupt you. But one can't get blood from a stone.
And down to detail. If a Jehovah's witness signs up for insurance that doesn't cover blood transfusions and/or organ transplantation and changes their mind it is malpractice to deny them the service
I don't mind repetitive posts as it shows conviction and consistency and helps remind people who quickly scroll through posts of important points you want to make.
The current health insurance industry in this country is not capable of enacting the kind of changes that a person like Kathleen Sebelus wants to set forth. She says 'we' don't understand how insurance works, well if she was setting the parameters for home owners insurance 'we' would all have hurricane and earthquake coverage on our homes, regardless of location. That is the same thing as requiring me to pay for drug rehab or maternity costs - something I will never use.
People need to have skin in the game, people need to budget and save for their medical costs. Nobody should get a free ride. If you have income of 20k or 200k some portion of that should go towards medical expenses that you incur.
You know really, alot of the people complaining about ACA now are complaining because their deductibles are too high and they can't "use" the insurance, as in they are having to pay for too much.
That is a good thing, people having to be accountable for their costs up to the deductible and make decisions and form habits accordingly. Health insurance should not be an all-expenses-paid vehicle. It should cover events and circumstances that are unforseen and unexpected in our lives.
The problem that I see with the ACA is that if you are searching for an individual policy and make too much money to get a subsidy then you find premiums on $6000 deductible plans too high. I mean, why we have to subsidize up to 400% of federal poverty level points to another underlying problem, the sh:t is too damn expense in the first place. 400%. I think federal poverty level is 12,500, so if you make $50k as an individual you are still eligible for subsidy. Why? A $6000 deductible plan should have relatively low premiums, that essentially is a catastrophic plan and should be billed as such. But no, we have some people paying several hundred dollars per month for that and then still have to pay out of pocket for everything up to that point. I don't know exactly, I think I have an idea, but something after ACA made high deductible plans have the same premium as previous lower deductible plans. And as deductibles rise, premiums should decrease - the inverse was true with ACA. People paid more and got less - atleast some of them.
And then there is that. This is hardily the first time and won't be the last time, but ACA has divided us as so many other things in our history has.
Middle class people buying individual plans not eligible for subsidy assistance are seeing their premiums go up and they get pinched more, while somebody on Medicaid can just walk into the ER and get what they need and walk out with no bills.
Resentment is building from the middle down. Surely we've had resentment from the lower tier of society upwards, and to an extent alot of people resent somebody else for what they have or where they are in life.
But here the example is, work hard, save when you can for your medical expenses and then somebody else in society doesn't have to work and doesn't have to save for their expenses. Medicaid certainly has it's drawbacks, but then again, when you look at it this way it has it's benefits too. When working middle class people would rather have Medicaid then their private plans we have a problem with how this system is constructed.
Why I understand what you are saying, this line from you always bothers me about republicans/conservatives...
"But here the example is, work hard, save when you can for your medical expenses and then somebody else in society doesn't have to work and doesn't have to save for their expenses."
This seems to always be code for 'lazy people' and usually minorities... I hear all the time from a few libertarians that I know that 'I worked hard for my money, why can't they'.... well, maybe they weren't a privileged white person who was able to get a good education and had a network of friends and relatives to help them get a good job.....
It's always "they" that just don't want to work .... and I don't think it's that simple.
I know that's not what you meant...... but if you listen to Paul Ryan and the other republican mouthpieces on the healthcare issue, you wonder if they know how the real world works and how most people struggle to pay just their very basic bills....
I think that something we rarely stop to do or talk about is that there are all different types of people in any group. Not every person in whatever category is the same with the same circumstances or background or feelings.
So ofcourse, there are many people that have been less fortunate in their lives which hasn't been of their own doing. Life's circumstances, or luck as it is, has put them where they are - not that they want to be there, or stay there...it's just the facts of life. They aren't bad in any way. Just like there are many people who through no good special efforts of their own have found themselves in better circumstances, these people aren't better in any way. It is just the way life works.
What I feel related to medical expenses is that everyone needs to have an appreciation and exposure to the costs they are creating through their use of products and services in our health care system.
Even if a medicaid recipient was responsible for say 10% of their billed cost and the government would pick up some larger portion...it doesn't have to be the same % or amount that somebody more financially stable is responsible for, it just has to be some amount that makes people realize and think about their actions and the consequences of choices and different types of services they use. There should not be a total disconnect between the ones receiving the care and the ones paying for the care.
Almost all Insurance companies now make the consumer responsible for an increasing amounts of their bill - for just the reason you stated. Charging Medicaid participants even $5 would make them more responsible. A few don't have even that.
I think we all agree that the system is broken; the question is how to fix it. I think the middle class felt a bit thrown under the bus with ACA when it found out it was going to pay the bill for the poor. The definition of rich is akin to the definition of promiscuity (AKA anyone who gets laid more than you do.) Everyone thinks those who make more than they do should pay.
A $5 fee to someone living on $7,000 per year is not reasonable. That's what public assistance recipients in New York have who are on assistance only and covered by Medicaid receive. Medicaid is income based. There are working poor people and families, the qualifying income is not much above migrant worker incomes.
The insurance companies need to stop the greed, and their executives do not need triple digit incomes off the backs of the poor and the working class. Just like the oil executives who were getting 300-400% profits back in 2008, I don't even know what it is now, it is wrong.
Here's a novel idea, insurance and housing costs based on a person's income. So if you have almost nothing, you do not pay the same as someone else who has a lot more. Minimum wages need to be indexed to the costs of living in different parts of the country, one size does not fit all.
http://www.universallivingwage.org/
If people earned a LIVING WAGE, they could pay something towards their health care, as things are now, they cannot. Multiple problems, common sense solutions.
[Edited on 3/28/2017 by gina]
The New York Times reinforces President Trump on ObamaCare being on the brink of collapse.
Obamacare Choices Could Go From One to Zero in Some Areas
The NYT agrees with President Trump.
Things are really changing.
On the verge of a vote in the House on the Republican American Health Care Act.
Wondering of the forum members who participate here...
who has insurance through their employer, who is retired on medicare or has health insurance through a pension plan, who purchases individual plans, who has coverage through ACA provisions?
And does anyone care to share their plan details or out-of-pocket payments? I've mentioned some of mine here or in other threads, but would be happy to do so again for comparison purposes with others.
