I stumbled upon this a few years ago, and once again the other day when I was looking at the Fed Ex shooting here in Indy.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
In the last 72hours as of 2000hrs est time there have been 90 plus people killed. These are only deaths , not injured. This is sad and sickening.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours?sort=desc&order=%23%20Killed
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
I looked at some of the source articles at random. That webpage is really tapped into the data to accumulate their list so quickly.
One thing that struck me was how many random shootings with no motive and no known suspects at the time. Seems like a lot of cold cases in the making. Then you have the domestic violence ones, the murder-suicide ones, the armed robbery ones...man this can be a sick world when you stop to think how much violence is occurring all the time somewhere at any given moment.
Humbling data alright😣
”Each year in this country, guns are involved in over 6,500 murders. That compares with 30 in England, 99 in Canada, 37 in Japan & 68 in W. Germany”
LBJ, 1968
little has changed
as long as firearms are available, political legislation/gun control enactments etc will be powerless to curb these statistics -
as was pointed out in the other thread, the FedEx shooter was known to police - but still legally purchased his assault rifles w/no problem
Violence will always be around. If someone is determined to do harm, whether it be from a need for vengeance, perceived abuse or threat, or a mental defect, they will find a way to do harm.
Violence will always be around. If someone is determined to do harm, whether it be from a need for vengeance, perceived abuse or threat, or a mental defect, they will find a way to do harm.
This is true.
Although I think the intent by some policy makers is to limit the harm one can inflict. But there are various intentions around.
Violence will always be around. If someone is determined to do harm, whether it be from a need for vengeance, perceived abuse or threat, or a mental defect, they will find a way to do harm.
This is true.
Although I think the intent by some policy makers is to limit the harm one can inflict. But there are various intentions around.
& more & more children are getting caught in the middle as a result of those intentions - today’s GVA entry of the gunfight at a 12 year old’s birthday party in Louisiana, in which 9 kids were struck, is the latest xmpl
police shot & killed a 16 year old black girl in Columbus OH - she was shot four times - all circumstances not yet known, it was just recent
Violence will always be around. If someone is determined to do harm, whether it be from a need for vengeance, perceived abuse or threat, or a mental defect, they will find a way to do harm.
This is true.
Although I think the intent by some policy makers is to limit the harm one can inflict. But there are various intentions around.
& more & more children are getting caught in the middle as a result of those intentions - today’s GVA entry of the gunfight at a 12 year old’s birthday party in Louisiana, in which 9 kids were struck, is the latest xmpl
police shot & killed a 16 year old black girl in Columbus OH - she was shot four times - all circumstances not yet known, it was just recent
It's all different. Still different. Gun yes. Motives and circumstances all different.
Who did the shooting at the party? Who were they shooting at? How did they get their weapons? Nobody knows, and the ones who do ain't talking.
Investigators say more than 60 young people gathered for the party, and that two groups of feuding teens began arguing at the meetup. They say two guns were fired during the altercation.
Despite there being several witnesses at the party, Sheriff Mike Tregre said in a statement that no one has come forward with information.
“Not one person has given a formal statement,” Sheriff Tregre said. “I am asking witnesses to come forward with information to help us learn more about what happened.”
Columbus girl shot was about to stab another person. I guess the police should've just let that happen? The time to stop fighting and stop attacking people is when police show up. You don't attack somebody when the police show up and think they were look away.
That’s one version of events, absolutely
I agree that specific circumstances of all these shootings differ
was deadly force justified in the killing of that student in the bathroom of a TN high school last week
Was it justified in yesterday’s killing of an unarmed man in his vehicle by a deputy sheriff in NC
some will say yes, others no - but one thing can’t be disputed imo - a good many police have Itchy Trigger Fingers when it comes to enforcing the law on people of color
Am Mindful Of The High Stress That Goes W/Being A Police Officer (mentioned this b4)
a poacher was trampled to death by elephants last week as he weasled into their breeding grounds - This To Me Is Justice
Imo, videos like the one of that woman being shot in back of the head in NYC shouldn’t be published -
Black Lives Matter - as of course do ALL lives
Who wants to be a cop in today's America? Celebrities posting photos to social media with a "you're next" message. People expect officers to know the age of the individuals they are encountering - armed "kids" can be just as lethal as an adult. It's one thing to blame the victims and make excuses for the cops,but now the actions of the victims get completely ignored. Waiting for the post-incident isn't good enough now, everyone thinks they know more than the police. All Cops Are-NOT Bastards, yet there are those in the protests and unbelievably in our federal government that believe ACAB. Those people should walk a mile in their shoes first and see what they see and engage in what they engage in. 35 cops have died this year by either assault, gunfire, stabbing, struck by a vehicle or vehicular assault. The respect for their profession and the risk they take has swung too far. Black lives do matter, blue lives matter, all lives matter. There are police officers that act with malice. There are police officers that make mistakes in the heat of the moment in the flash of a second. There are police officers who use force to protect the lives of other or themselves. Figuring out the Derek Chouvin types compared to Kim Potter, Eric Stillman to the Nicholas Reardon to whom ever. Each case needs investigated with the factors that lead up to it considered and ultimately weighing the use of force appropriate or not. But now in the immediate aftermath we have a society ready to be judge,jury and executioner.
@nebish AMEN!!! Well said!
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
All Cops Are-NOT Bastards
@nebish That's a bit of a straw man. Saying that black lives matter does does not mean other lives do not matter. Police officers are granted great power and responsibility, so they should be held to a higher standard. Yes, it's an incredibly demanding job, especially with US's gun culture, and when force is used on a suspect it is more than likely appropriate than not and done in the best interests of the community. Sometimes an officer has to use their weapon, unfortunately, and more often than not it is justified (and I agree that it doesn't always have to be pasted on CNN). But sometimes it is not. Sometimes there are ways to de-escalate a situation that are not pursued.
The fact is there are cops who shouldn't be cops, and we expect them not to protect their own when there is a rotten apple on the force. That is the issue here. Because the stakes are too high if a cop is motivated by prejudice or even negligence. Chauvin was just one cop who got caught abusing his power, and had it not been for a teenager with a camera phone, he'd still be on the street enforcing the law. Ahmed Arbery was murdered by a retired cop - what did his killer get away with while active? Cops are granted power to enforce law, but not with impunity. This is the first step towards accountability, which has been absent in similar cases.
You quoted the part that I referenced the popular saying among protesters - All Cops Are Bastards. You hear the crowd assembled in Minneapolis Tuesday chanting "ACAB - All Cops Are Bastards". That is what some of these people believe. No straw man there. BGOnTheScene posted the video on twitter.
@nebish I think you're taking that phrase on an individual level, it's intent is aimed at the bastardization of the system (though it's clunky).
There's history to the phrase.
https://www.gq.com/story/history-of-acab
https://naeye.net/13558/opinion/acab-explained-part-one/
I agree that each case deserves its own magnifying glass, but the Chauvin conviction is just one case. Far too often there has been no accountability, there's good reason for many people to be angry towards the system.
@nebish I think you're taking that phrase on an individual level, it's intent is aimed at the bastardization of the system (though it's clunky).
There's history to the phrase.
https://www.gq.com/story/history-of-acab
https://naeye.net/13558/opinion/acab-explained-part-one/
I agree that each case deserves its own magnifying glass, but the Chauvin conviction is just one case. Far too often there has been no accountability, there's good reason for many people to be angry towards the system.
You hold the people saying and vandalizing ACAB to a higher standard and knowledge than I do. I don't think most of those people are deep thinkers to the origins and philosophical meaning of it all. When a call and answer chant is initiated and shouted back, I suspect most of the people saying it are doing so literally. That is me suspecting. I can't really know what is in their heads or hearts and neither can you. All we can go by is what they say and what they do. Don't want to be labeled a cop hater? Don't say all cops are bastards.
One thing I was thinking here with the gun violence archive and then the police shootings and all this debate about how to get our arms around this gun violence epidemic. What measures do we take to keep guns out of the hands of people who didn't go through legal channels to get them? Criminals, gangsters? I mean, what additional laws on the books is going to accomplish that? Teenagers at a 12 year olds birthday party start shooting at eachother - they shouldn't have guns anyway. And this anti-police sentiment fomenting around the country, questioning their every move, their motives - does anyone think that makes them more or less likely to try and get dangerous people off the streets and prevent other violence with guns?
Here is something from USA Today regarding the arrest warrant for Duante Wright:
Wright's outstanding warrant was unrelated to address issues
In March, Wright was charged with possession of a pistol without a permit and fleeing a police officer. The case number for these separate charges is 27-CR-21-4400.
On April 2, the court issued a warrant for Wright’s arrest for failing to appear at the hearing. That warrant was active at the time of Wright’s death.
Officer Kim Potter was absolutely wrong to use deadly force in this case. Although one of our elected leaders believes she meant to shoot him. Ugh. Potter was justified to try to subdue him and take him into custody because he had an arrest warrant for failure to appear after having a gun without a permit.
We are talking about gun violence here and there is Daunte Wright who illegally possessed a gun and then didn't show up in court to face his charges and nobody cares about that. Aren't people who illegally possess guns part of the problem we are trying to address here?
No question he should be alive today, and he would've been if not for the grave mistake of Potter to which she will have to face consequences for.
But the point is, Daute Wright is exactly the kind of person who should've been arrested and the police were right to try and arrest him. Que the media making him out to be a saint though when the next story will be how it is bad when people illegally possess firearms.
I think we mostly agree, I just don't think now is the time to feel bad for cops. Not in this moment.
It's one conviction, walk a mile in George Floyd's shoes. I think there are a lot of people who are justified in being angry at the system right now, especially in Minneapolis. At all cops? No, and likely those in the crowd don't know what they are saying, as you say. But no one ever said being a cop is easy, they should be scrutinized. Their team killed a guy in the street, he was judge, jury, executioner. People witnessed it, and the world saw it. The police union chief, Bob Kroll, has blindly defended some questionable actions of officers and blocked attempts at reform. That's his job, but there is an issue that needs to be addressed and the guy at the top is disregarding it. They need to fix their own house first. The three other officers should have seen that what Chauvin was doing was wrong.
it’s not that way everywhere across the board (contempt/disrespect of law enforcement) - am guessing/would believe many places have civil relations w/law enforcement agencies & personnel - like everything else there’s good & bad
But many of these killings shouldn’t’ve happened imo - I understand the opposing POV, police might get killed themselves if they don’t shoot 1st - would guess just their presence has diffused many situations w/out having to use their guns
but the girl in Columbus was shot 4 times - Jacob Blake, 7 times - countless cases where victims were unarmed - a teenager was shot dead recently while his hands were up
that’s when it turns violent - whether from rednecks, racists or police, black citizens are under threat every day - I for one understand their anger & why it manifests itself in violence
No question he should be alive today, and he would've been if not for the grave mistake of Potter to which she will have to face consequences for.
But the point is, Daute Wright is exactly the kind of person who should've been arrested and the police were right to try and arrest him. Que the media making him out to be a saint though when the next story will be how it is bad when people illegally possess firearms.
Yes, he should have been arrested, I don't think anyone is arguing that. I don't see him being made out to be a saint, but there's definitely sympathy considering what happened - even moreso if it was unintentional on the officer's part. I think the point is police have a greater responsibility for the public's safety, even those who break the law, and need to be held accountable when they mess up - intentionally or not.
At the root, I also think we agree even though we are coming at it from different perspectives.
Just as you might agree with some of my feelings if not my approach - I agree that walking a mile in George Floyd's shoes would not be easy, any black man or woman. And that is sad. I have no ill will towards any race or ethic group that means no harm, example I have great disdain for radical muslims, but have no problem with nonradicals. I have much hatred for white supremacists but of course do not hate all white people. I never got racism, never understood how or why a person would feel that way towards others.
Wright's aunt with Ben Crump were on CNN this very morning warning that his character is now going to be assassinated and attacked. And even though at times it may look like it, I am not into character assassination; others unfortunately do plenty of that. I just point out some necessary and pertinent facts. The only thing I know is that he had previously been arrested for having a gun without a permit. And if unlawful possession of a firearm is part of the problem that we are trying to address, then Daute Wright was part of the problem. He didn't shot or kill anyone that I am aware of, but the fact that people are going around carrying unregistered and illegal guns, that is a huge part of the problem - and that is being ignored. He shouldn't have been shot, I want to repeat, he shouldn't be dead. But if we are going to try and address gun violence then everyone and everyone who has a gun unlawfully must be arrested charged and tried for their crimes if we can ever hope to get a handle on this problem.
I said elsewhere, mabye in Rusty's thread, I think after last Thursday's CNN evening reports about Wright that yes, in fact, there have been commentators and guests who were questioning why he was being arrested in the first place and why even a taser was appropriate. Earlier in the week Chris Cuomo said he should've been allowed to flee and just "get him later".
I hate Derek Chauvin. He gives police a bad name. And we know he isn't the only one. And I hate all those bad cops. Every last one of them. I continually think that too much of the attention and national conversation isn't considering that some of these officers get caught up in bad situations that they do not want to be in, it's their job to be in it, but that doesn't mean they relish it. Is Eric Stillman a bad cop because he shot a 13 year old kid who had a gun, no. We ask them to go into harms way and deal with situations that are dangerous and deadly with numerous unknown variables to them and everyone around them. In totality, I think police and law enforcement does the best they can to enforce the law for the general good. When there are errors or ill intent that ends in an unjustified use of force or death it stains everything and I worry that these cracks in the wall are going to reverberate down to the foundation of our lawful society. Make no mistake, I don't want the Chauvins or the Potters of the world to go unpunished, even though those are two very different incidents I think, they each must be held to account for those actions.
But then, the officer in Columbus was justified in using his weapon on Bryant. The officer in Milwaukee was justified in using his weapon on Blake. The officer in Chicago was justified in using his weapon on Toledo. You want to count the number of shots? 1 shot in the right place can kill somebody. It's not like TV where they can just take a shot at the leg to deescalate, deadly force against, or the perception of it, results in deadly force being used. If we get hung up on the number of shots fired, why? If Bryant died of one shot, of Blake was paralyzed after the first shot what does it matter? Does it make it better if fewer shots are fired? Toledo died after one shot, what if he had been shot 6 times - does that make it worse? I think sometimes it gives it a worse optic the number of shots, but the bottom line is should deadly force by used by the police, if the answer is yes the number of shots doesn't matter so much.
I agree, there are no easy answers. Neighborhoods where gun violence is prevalent are the victims on both sides - from violence from within and occasionally excessive force from outside. All it takes is one cop acting like an occupying army with disregard for both the people they are protecting and apprehending to disrupt the balance.
CNN's lead at 2:00 with Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell is the Daunte Wright funeral coverage. Camerota said "Daunte Wright was shot in Brooklyn Center Minnesota after being pulled over for expired plates...police say in an attempt to make an arrest, veteran officer pulled out her gun instead of her taser and fired it". Implication there, he was attempting to be arrested and shot simply for expired plates. There is more to the story they are omitting that puts the entire situation in context - the warrant for his arrest on a weapons charge is what led the police to act the way they did. He wasn't being arrested (attempt to make an arrest as he tried to resist and flee) simply for a traffic violation!
And a few minutes later Camerota says "Daunte Wright was pulled over according to police for expired plates, and really, a few minutes later he was dead. And there is already talk is there a way to do something different than that" (goes on to mention Berkley California and how they might treat traffic violations).
Again no mention of the warrant for his arrest.
The shooting can not be justified and I won't do that. But the reason for the attempted arrest is very important and they make no mention of it. I would certainly wish that our news agencies would accurately depict the situations because how they are doing it now is not just unhelpful, does our entire county a disservice.
Now you, or anyone, I know some here, say 'I don't like the news' or 'I don't watch the news' or 'I get all the facts so it doesn't mean anything to me what they say or don't say' - but what about everyone else? What about everyone else who thinks that some yahoo cops are just trying to arrest black people for expired license plates.
CNN's lead at 2:00 with Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell is the Daunte Wright funeral coverage. Camerota said "Daunte Wright was shot in Brooklyn Center Minnesota after being pulled over for expired plates...police say in an attempt to make an arrest, veteran officer pulled out her gun instead of her taser and fired it". Implication there, he was attempting to be arrested and shot simply for expired plates. There is more to the story they are omitting that puts the entire situation in context - the warrant for his arrest on a weapons charge is what led the police to act the way they did. He wasn't being arrested (attempt to make an arrest as he tried to resist and flee) simply for a traffic violation!
And a few minutes later Camerota says "Daunte Wright was pulled over according to police for expired plates, and really, a few minutes later he was dead. And there is already talk is there a way to do something different than that" (goes on to mention Berkley California and how they might treat traffic violations).
Again no mention of the warrant for his arrest.
The shooting can not be justified and I won't do that. But the reason for the attempted arrest is very important and they make no mention of it. I would certainly wish that our news agencies would accurately depict the situations because how they are doing it now is not just unhelpful, does our entire county a disservice.
Now you, or anyone, I know some here, say 'I don't like the news' or 'I don't watch the news' or 'I get all the facts so it doesn't mean anything to me what they say or don't say' - but what about everyone else? What about everyone else who thinks that some yahoo cops are just trying to arrest black people for expired license plates.
if the media gave the whole story, there would be little interest in the following reports. Problem with that is that some folks just hear the first part, don't bother to, or just don't want to, hear the rest of the story. They then go around thinking, and vocally protesting about their perceived idea of why all this happened.
CNN should be sued by the city for giving out misinformation, doesn't matter if they come out with a "correction" of their "reporting".
Several things to go over though:
When you purchase a firearm and NICS is given the information on the Form 4473, the firearm is registered with the BATFE.
There is no such thing as an illegal firearm, there are firearms illegally owned or carried by those who should not have them.
Such as Hunter Biden. But, that's another thread.
There is no such thing as an illegal firearm, there are firearms illegally owned or carried by those who should not have them.
Yes. I don't mind being corrected when I misspeak.
There is no such thing as an illegal firearm, there are firearms illegally owned or carried by those who should not have them.
Yes. I don't mind being corrected when I misspeak.
I thought about this further and maybe you can clarify, I used to be familiar with the NFA and some of the requirements to buy and own AOLs (all other weapons) and the 1984 pre-ban / post-ban automatic weapons, but it is quite foggy now. So I'll ask this, if somebody buys a semiautomatic rifle and modifies it to fire full auto would that not be an illegal gun? Also, a shotgun that is shortened beyond a certain length by the owner, not purchased as a short barreled shotgun, but modified after purchase to. Certain length, would that not be an illegal gun? A serial number that is removed from a gun, does that become an illegal gun?
All of the cable news channels have their bias. The articles I've read on CNN mention the warrant.
The omission of the warrant on the broadcast you viewed is slightly misleading, even if the broad statement is still true - he was pulled over and was mistakenly killed by an officer moments later. It's not misinformation, the assumption is left up to the viewer, it's meant to be shocking. Does it matter what the warrant was for? I don't think so, he wasn't armed at the time, though it is important to clarify that he wasn't being arrested for expired plates.
I'll admit, CNN can be pretty insufferable, but I've heard far worse omissions or bias from CNN and especially FOX. Life is too short to be upset about cable news.
Part of it that I have admitted, I like cable news. And just like talk radio, I want to know what the various outlets/sides/factions are saying and how they are portraying things. CNN, MSNBC and Fox - I watch or listen to a little of all of them. MSNBC has become increasingly difficult for me to find any joy or redeeming value in though. CNBC is what I watch or listen to when I don't want any of the normal BS and just economic news with a sprinkling of everything else. Washington Journal on CSPAN is good too with the old school newspaper and highlight article text on TV with phone in callers although my wife makes fun of me when I watch that. And I like talk radio, some of it, I like Thom Hartmann, I used to really like Ed Schultz's radio show, but not his TV show at all. I listen to Progressive and "Patriot" satellite radio and the one in the middle with Cuomo's show that also has Smerconish on it - the POTUS channel. Listening to various sides allows me to see the holes in their arguments and what they leave out and why. And some of that I post here, like the detailed recounting of CNN's 2 o'clock lead and how they framed the story yesterday.
Also, not so much now in real life as personal interactions due to covid are limited, or on here these days unfortunately, but how and where people get their information shapes everything in what they say and what they believe. If somebody only gets news from late night comics (sadly I know a couple), or from knee-jerk twitter feeds (again yes I know one) then they are missing out on the entire picture.
Now I may often only post one side of the picture here, but what I really want and really need is for other people to come in and post the other side and then we have an exchange of ideas and information that is really helpful to both parties (and others reading) if we allow it to be. You might imagine the low traffic on the WP has been rough on me in this sense, but I haven't wanted to go elsewhere to find that yet and I don't think I ever will.
Hopefully Jerry can address my earlier questions.
In the meantime in the fallout of the Columbus shooting of Ma'Khia Bryant, some protesters are demanding that The Ohio State University sever ties with the Columbus PD. I choose this quote in a yahoo news article to leave here:
"Organizers told the crowd that the protest wasn’t for police reform but for abolition."
Now I'm sure that is a minority view and others here last year tried to explain what abolish the police really means and that is shouldn't be taken literally. With all due respect to my friends here who tried to explain away that sentiment, in fact there are people that want very much to abolish the police. I almost wish that people who want that could be given their utopia and live with no police, probably the same people who also want no capitalism. How's Portland Oregon sound?
Was it justified in yesterday’s killing of an unarmed man in his vehicle by a deputy sheriff in NC
This one is suspicious and concerning.
Got to call it fairly. If I am going to come out and defend some of the actions of some of the officer involved shootings/incidents in other cases, initially with what we know as of now, I have a bad feeling about this one.
Was it justified in yesterday’s killing of an unarmed man in his vehicle by a deputy sheriff in NC
This one is suspicious and concerning.
Got to call it fairly. If I am going to come out and defend some of the actions of some of the officer involved shootings/incidents in other cases, initially with what we know as of now, I have a bad feeling about this one.
Good post nebish & it dawns on me the same could apply, the other way around, to the Bryant shooting in Ohio - as he arrived he saw someone w/a knife in her hand, looking like she wanted to use it - the sad video does shows that imo
that puts a cop in a no win situation - he wants to stop a knifing & in this case had to react reflexively to do that
Maybe he coulda yelled, Police, Drop The Knife - but instead yelled Get Down, to get a clear shot at her - four shots however was excessive imho, just the 1st one disabling her would’ve been enough - but again....
at this early time, shooting a man 10 times, which is what happened in the most recent case by a Virginia sheriff’s deputy, seems grotesquely excessive & an obvious case of criminal intent-to-murder - but it’s early yet
It’s all the time now - would like to see a statement from the WH acknowledging this Madness & calling for an end to it
There is no such thing as an illegal firearm, there are firearms illegally owned or carried by those who should not have them.
Yes. I don't mind being corrected when I misspeak.
I thought about this further and maybe you can clarify, I used to be familiar with the NFA and some of the requirements to buy and own AOLs (all other weapons) and the 1984 pre-ban / post-ban automatic weapons, but it is quite foggy now. So I'll ask this, if somebody buys a semiautomatic rifle and modifies it to fire full auto would that not be an illegal gun? Also, a shotgun that is shortened beyond a certain length by the owner, not purchased as a short barreled shotgun, but modified after purchase to. Certain length, would that not be an illegal gun? A serial number that is removed from a gun, does that become an illegal gun?
That would be illegal modifications that makes a standard firearm into an AOL.
semi-auto changed to full auto turns the firearm into one that needs federal registration and a tax stamp. No tax stamp, you illegally own a non registered full auto weapon. Even though the firearm would be confiscated, and destroyed, it's because of the illegal modifications done to it.
All other examples, illegal modifications, they are illegal to own due to the modifications.
NFA is kinda hard to figure out sometimes. Does a shotgun/rifle barrel get measured from the end of the chamber, or the end of the barrel?
There used to be a requirement of "overall length" involved in shotguns. It was sometimes argued that the overall length was longer than the regs called for, even if the barrel was a little short.
