Cyclone, why do you say "Americans don't care"?
For precisely the reason you mention - numbness/de-sensitivity. There seems to be a general acceptance that his campaign was built on lies & investigative reporting to confirm that seems only to be important to the writers (in hopes of a Pulitzer) & future historians. Otherwise, it seems - as Jim Sheridan so ably points out - like piling on to both sides. I've not heard one single Trump voter say they regret their vote nor do they expect to vote differently in 2020.
Why would they? If Jesus himself returned as a Democrat they wouldn’t vote for him.
The divide between red and blue is real and things need to reshape around the division. The concept of unity is folly. We do not all want the same things.
Trump ran a scam university, refused to pay subcontractors, declared bankruptcy 5 times, he not only avoided prison, but got elected president.
Correct. Only what you fail to mention is that this was all available for public consumption long before Election Day yet he still won.
Any lesson here? Don't the real reasons for this go just a little deeper than merely placing blame on the voting populace, or worse some kind of armchair psychoanalysis of the voting public?
. . .I've been working in Europe for the past 6 months where fear of Trump's demagoguery, unabashed racism, and admiration for autocrats is high. . . .
88 . . . Cyclone 88 . . . international man of mystery! I know US politics makes waves, but gotta say Europe is facing the same rise in nationalism and racism, really no reason they need to look beyond their own behavior to get concerned, other than to verify this trend as an international problem, as well as the US creating a role model and precedent. Certainly a grave concern but that doesn't remove their responsibility for their same problems.
[Edited on 5/10/2019 by BrerRabbit]
88 . . . Cyclone 88 . . . international man of mystery! I know US politics makes waves, but gotta say Europe is facing the same rise in nationalism and racism, really no reason they need to look beyond their own behavior to get concerned, other than to verify this trend as an international problem, as well as the US creating a role model and precedent.
Right. They're scaring themselves. Which reminds me, the best response to my original question about the NYT investigation into Trump's old taxes led me to re-watch The Omen. The score was Jerry Goldsmith's only Oscar out of 18 nominations.
[Edited on 5/10/2019 by cyclone88]
That was some disturbing music. I should probably delete my last post, its gonzo. I have the flu and am pretty well zonked. Yeah, we all care, I think at some point it hit me that bullsh!t is the new truth. So Im here all dizzy watching "The Blue and the Grey" on dvd, hearing the same noise being made out there right now. Dramas just have to play themselves out I guess. We can vote, whoo-hoo, thats just peachy, but isnt gonna stop the fear and war mongers and their legions who are polishing up rifles and stockpiling ammo in their garages for the Magacalypse.
Cyclone, why do you say "Americans don't care"?
For precisely the reason you mention - numbness/de-sensitivity. There seems to be a general acceptance that his campaign was built on lies & investigative reporting to confirm that seems only to be important to the writers (in hopes of a Pulitzer) & future historians. Otherwise, it seems - as Jim Sheridan so ably points out - like piling on to both sides. I've not heard one single Trump voter say they regret their vote nor do they expect to vote differently in 2020.
My perspective may be skewed because I've been working in Europe for the past 6 months where fear of Trump's demagoguery, unabashed racism, and admiration for autocrats is high. The oft-received question of why, in the face of all that was known before, was he elected and in the face of all the corruption exposed since, is he likely to be re-elected is one I can't answer.
You have heard from atleast single Trump voter who said they plan to vote differently in 2020, me.
Otherwise, the people who might also express the same feelings might be a little reluctant to say they even voted for Trump. You have the circle that is proud and points to all the all the things they like about the President (originalgoober for instance), then you have the group who voted for Trump and might be happy with some actions by the administration but also sees all the nonsense and folly from the President and would rather not have to defend their vote or let anyone know they voted for him. I don't have anything to hide, I'm comfortable with myself and my views and actions. But for a lot of people saying they voted for Trump can be, well, maybe embarrassing. So from those people you might not be getting the "I'm voting different next time" because they don't want to let on how they voted the first time. The vocal supporters who wear MAGA hats and Trump bumper stickers are never going to say that. Of the nearly 63 million people that voted for Trump, how many people are the hardcore Trumpers vs people like me? People that decided to try something different, or blue collar Dems that flipped. And then there must be alot of people that held their nose and voted for their Republican party in 2016 who really weren't Trump supporters. I think odds are that many of those votes will not repeat in 2020.
According to many accepted measures of performance, the country seems to be doing pretty well and that's all most of us care about......
I don't care if folks love Trump or hate him. I just want the country to do well, and it is.
BINGO! We have a BINGO!
If any of you have written off a billion dollars on your taxes over a decade and successfully stayed in business for several more I would love to hear your criticism of Trumps business acumen.
I would imagine that is is actually difficult to accumulate such massive losses, to the point where some of it is purposeful. The IRS allow you to carryover losses to reduce future income.
I do think the country is doing well. However, when I voted for Trump I was hoping he wasn't in fact a Republican and wouldn't govern as a Republican, because if you remember back then, a lot of people were questioning this. My hope was that we would get a "deal makers" who could get a little to get a little and we'd have some bipartisan bills on big issues. I said this immediately after the election. Unfortunately, if Trump wasn't a Republican then, he quickly became one. The only exceptions from the Republican playbook being his views on trade and the growing control by neocons in the party. So this is really my fault I guess more than Trump's fault with politics in Washington being what it is. I hoped to get something that really could never happen, what I want in Washington...as Bhawk so frequently reminds me, just isn't ever happening.
If Jesus himself returned as a Democrat they wouldn’t vote for him.
Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Beto, Mayor Pete, et al., aren't Jesus.
You have heard from atleast single Trump voter who said they plan to vote differently in 2020, me.
Didn't know that.
I've not heard one single Trump voter say they regret their vote nor do they expect to vote differently in 2020.
Other than Nebish, neither have I. But I have heard of a lot who did not vote for him that plan to in 2020. And mostly for the same reasons that Nebish will not.
However, when I voted for Trump I was hoping he wasn't in fact a Republican and wouldn't govern as a Republican, because if you remember back then, a lot of people were questioning this.
This was a fair question at the time because he was a Democrat for so very long. However, Republican or not he is doing (or in some cases trying) exactly what he said he intended to do. Been a while since ANY party put someone in the white house that did that.
If Jesus himself returned as a Democrat they wouldn’t vote for him.
Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Beto, Mayor Pete, et al., aren't Jesus.
I already know you wouldn't vote for any Democrat. 
If Jesus himself returned as a Democrat they wouldn’t vote for him.
Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Beto, Mayor Pete, et al., aren't Jesus.
I already know you wouldn't vote for any Democrat.
I have. Once. A state level legislator that did me a favor. A nice fellow, too. Unfortunately, his rather public fall from grace involved an arrest in a very inebriated state in the wee hours of the morning. He was stopped at a traffic light with a hooker's face in his lap. 😮
I live in upstate, NY in the heart of the dairy industry that is a big part of the overall farming segment of our state and local economy. My area went big for Trump in 2016 (one the few areas of New York that did).
I know of several past Trump supporters that claim they WILL NOT vote for him again due to his lack of support of the dairy industry. They feel the most recent agriculture bill did nothing to protect the dairy industry as seems to have happened for years now. Many also think he has very little comprehension of the difference between dairy and commodity farming.
Also, our Senators' Schumer and Gillibrand and Congresswoman Elise Stefanik (A Republican) have attempted to reform the dairy pricing process and insurance program via congressional legislation. Trump has not only done little to champion such efforts, he seems oblivious that such legislation has even been sponsored or was pushed to be included in the recently passed Ag. bill.
Given New York certainly will go Dem. in 2020, their votes against Trump only add to that inevitability. However, they are examples of voters who at least claim they've turned against Trump. My point is there are long time Republican voters and previous Trump supporters who do feel Trump doesn't deserve a second term.
He doesn’t do the details. He’s never cared about the details. He’s written books on being successful without caring about the details. Hundreds of people that have been in his world for almost fifty years have all said he’ll never work hard at the details.
And yet, the fact that he still doesn’t care about the details still surprises people.
He doesn’t do the details. He’s never cared about the details. He’s written books on being successful without caring about the details. Hundreds of people that have been in his world for almost fifty years have all said he’ll never work hard at the details.
And yet, the fact that he still doesn’t care about the details still surprises people.
So dangerous an impact upon economic issues and foreign policy. Details matter. Why have advisors if one thinks he knows more then advisors and just wings it on gut intuition?
Who would have ever thought that an American President would cozy up with dictators - Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia? Any previous President who did this would have been deemed a traitor by the GOP. Now for them it's just another day at the office to brush it aside, give cover to a despot, and make sure seats are protected in the next election. This is the new America First.
Textbooks will have to be rewritten to reflect the change in normalcy and acceptance once Donald Trump was elected.
But we read here that all is good. I guess I'm missing something.
He doesn’t do the details. He’s never cared about the details. He’s written books on being successful without caring about the details. Hundreds of people that have been in his world for almost fifty years have all said he’ll never work hard at the details.
And yet, the fact that he still doesn’t care about the details still surprises people.
Indeed....Which is why when I speak with local dairy people I ask them point blank why they ever thought Trump would come to their rescue when he has no knowledge or interest whatsoever in agriculture much less the dairy industry?
Many simply reply with the typical "Well he is a businessman isn't he?" Or "I'm a longtime Republican and can't stand Hilary so Trump is the better choice..."
