There isn't even a deal that has been finalized yet and there is a good chance still that one won't happen so people should just chill out. If this deal does happen and it is followed as explained it is a very good deal.
The only other option will be bombing and the experts say that at best we can set them back 5 years and if Israel do it themselves maybe 3 years and then they will be right back where they are now. If there is any collateral damage during such bombing then we turn into the bad guys and galvanize the Iranian people against us and unite them with their government.
If anyone thinks more and tougher sanctions will work keep dreaming. They will dig in and speed up their nuke program if we were to increase sanctions and that is if we even could. In order for sanctions to work we need the same cooperation from a bunch of other countries some which we don't like and that don't like us. Very doubtful those countries continue to sanction and increase sanctions if they feel a good deal was passed up and from what I understand most if not all of those countries think of this if it is finalized as described as a very good deal, much better than originally expected and much better than how the Republicans are trying to spin it.
I wonder if, when Iran is a nuclear power, which is likely to happen, and the rest of the Middle East has gone nuclear as well, if you will be willing to concede that perhaps this wasn't such a good idea. I promise if peace breaks out allover I will concede my fears were misplaced. I think thsat is exceedingly unlikely.
Whatever happens, we won't ever know what the long term results would have been for the alternative. There are no guarantees that a more hard line approach would keep Iran from developing a nuclear bomb, in fact there is a case to be made that a hard line approach would make it even more likely for many reasons, not the least of which is that there would be no way to verify what they are or are not doing...unless of course the hard line approach leads to war and war leads to simply blowing Iran off the map, which might keep them from having (or at least deploying) nuclear weapons but I think you might agree that a result like that would come with a whole other set of undesirable outcomes.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by gondicar]
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad news. We reached a peaceful deal with Iran that will prevent them from getting the bomb. What a disgrace....negotiating a peace deal. Only a weak leader would do such a thing. Obama clearly supports terrorism by reaching such a deal. It's only a matter of time before this peace deal backfires and Iran arms ISIS and Al-queda with nukes, and we all die. A strong leader like Putin would increase tensions with more animosity, and never work towards peace wth these animals. Where's Putin and Netanyahu when you need them?In all seriousness, I'm glad our hard work paid off. Lets hope both sides hold up their end of the bargain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------In what universe is this a " a peaceful deal with Iran that will prevent them from getting a bomb"? Please explain how this is 1. a deal 2. will prevent Iran from getting a bomb. I am very interested to hear. And if you think only Fox News and Republicans think this is an unmitigated disaster you haven't read very much.
People think this one of Obama's projects is a disaster? You don't say!!! I didn't see this coming at all! I guess only time will be able to answer our questions. And only an arrogant fool would believe they know for sure how this will play out. It seems like a good start, rather than more sanctions, increased tensions, hostility, etc.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by BoytonBrother]
There is no deal.
So far there is an unsigned agreement on a framework for a preliminary agreement.
That’s diplo-speak for nothing and nothing is what Obama and Kerry have accomplished.
Notice that everyone involved has a different version of what the unsigned agreement states?
Outside of a tentative agreement to reconvene prior to June 30th the clock will keep ticking while Iran continues to develop nuclear weapons.
France went home days before this latest almost an agreement stopped the meetings.
The German participants refused to even speak for the last week of the show.
Israel, not invited to participate, are not all that happy with what they know will be bad for their very existence.
Obama and Kerry are running to the TV cameras with their “oh look what I have accomplished” speeches.
Congress, both Republicans and Democrats are within two votes to override any veto on sanctions and the polls show The American People do not want the sanctions lifted prior to actual, verified action by Iran to disassemble all nuclear weapons development to include the destruction of the centrifuges and snap inspections by a team that includes Americans.
The U.N. hasn’t a clue.
Just another day with a failed foreign policy agenda by the Obama administration.
Anyone vacationing in Syria, Yemen or Kenya this summer?
I reached a deal with my Lamborghini dealer this morning. The car is mine in my favorite color, green!!!!!!!!
All I have left to do is pass the credit check, agree on the price, put down a substantial deposit, get my insurance company to issue proof of insurance, need my parents and in-laws to co-sign my loan, get my friend to lie to the bank that I have a steady job, find employment, hope to sell my screenplay and land a big deal this spring.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by OriginalGoober]
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by OriginalGoober]
I reached a deal with my Lamborghini dealer this morning. The car is mine in my favorite color, green!!!!!!!!
All I have left to do is pass the credit check, agree on the price, put down a substantial deposit, get my insurance company to issue proof of insurance, need my parents and in-laws to co-sign my loan, get my friend to lie to the bank that I have a steady job, find employment, hope to sell my screenplay and land a big deal this spring.
To take your analogy a little farther...which is actually not bad considering all the conditions that will be a part of any deal with Iran if/when a deal ever gets finalized/signed. What are the chances that ALL of the conditions you listed are met? I would bet that the dealer has sized you up and already knows as well as you do that the chances are slim. If you do somehow manage to meet them all, then good deal for all, yes? If you don't meet them, do you get to take the car anyway? That would be no. And if you can't meet all the conditions (or try to lie about 1 or more and the dealer inevitably finds out) then no car for you and what little credibility you might have built up during negotiations with the dealer is gone as well (if you try to take the car anyway, chances are you'll be met with a forceful response which is why you probably won't try to do that). And whether you meet all the conditions or not, the dealer will know that and take appropriate action to make sure you either don't ever get to even sit in the car, or you get to drive it home and everyone is happy...all depending on whether the conditions set as part of the deal are met.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by gondicar]
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
_________________________________________________________________________
Your assumption that we are war mongers is your usual ignorant rant.
Of course you would never lift up and defend the mass murder of people, unless of course they are babies in the womb and killing them is just fine with your type.
Cowards like you are fine to let other people defend their rights while you sit back and live off the freebies working people provide you.
Have you ever done anything to earn the freedoms and freebies you enjoy on the backs of other people?
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
_________________________________________________________________________
Your assumption that we are war mongers is your usual ignorant rant.
Of course you would never lift up and defend the mass murder of people, unless of course they are babies in the womb and killing them is just fine with your type.
Cowards like you are fine to let other people defend their rights while you sit back and live off the freebies working people provide you.
Have you ever done anything to earn the freedoms and freebies you enjoy on the backs of other people?
You are a chicken-hawk lying sack of shit, who never served a second in the armed services, and lied about doing so.
_____________________________________________________________________
You are too stupid to form an opinion Pops as evidenced by you not posting anything on the actual topic of the thread.
Your lack of respect for those who put on the uniform and defend their country is so typical of the liberal cowards.
More enlightening prose from the muledouche.
Go away and leave the adults to talk.
When we need a court jester for a bit of foolishness, we'll rattle your cage.
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
_________________________________________________________________________
Your assumption that we are war mongers is your usual ignorant rant.
Of course you would never lift up and defend the mass murder of people, unless of course they are babies in the womb and killing them is just fine with your type.
Cowards like you are fine to let other people defend their rights while you sit back and live off the freebies working people provide you.
Have you ever done anything to earn the freedoms and freebies you enjoy on the backs of other people?
You are a chicken-hawk lying sack of shit, who never served a second in the armed services, and lied about doing so.
_____________________________________________________________________
You are too stupid to form an opinion Pops as evidenced by you not posting anything on the actual topic of the thread.
Your lack of respect for those who put on the uniform and defend their country is so typical of the liberal cowards.
I have a lack of respect for you son, not those who have served.
_________________________________________________________________________
So, you cannot form an opinion of the actual thread; you simply attack me.
Ignorant and useless is no way to go through life junior.
More enlightening prose from the muledouche.
Go away and leave the adults to talk.
When we need a court jester for a bit of foolishness, we'll rattle your cage.
C'mon Ron...haven't you missed the "typical of liberals"? I mean how many days since the last time?
More enlightening prose from the muledouche.
Go away and leave the adults to talk.
When we need a court jester for a bit of foolishness, we'll rattle your cage.
C'mon Ron...haven't you missed the "typical of liberals"? I mean how many days since the last time?
_____________________________________________________________________
Look, Martin tried to from a thought.
Failure is so Obama.
Still no opinion on this threads topic?
So the bomb shelter is almost done but the wife and I are arguing over what color to paint the walls.
I want Yankee blue but she want a soft shade of yellow to cheer things up when the Iranian ICBM's come raining down on us.
We will be down there for a long time when that happens so do you all think I should give in to the Mrs.?
You're going through a lot of trouble - why not just go to the nearest FEMA camp? 😛
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
_________________________________________________________________________
Your assumption that we are war mongers is your usual ignorant rant.
Of course you would never lift up and defend the mass murder of people, unless of course they are babies in the womb and killing them is just fine with your type.
Cowards like you are fine to let other people defend their rights while you sit back and live off the freebies working people provide you.
Have you ever done anything to earn the freedoms and freebies you enjoy on the backs of other people?
You are a chicken-hawk lying sack of shit, who never served a second in the armed services, and lied about doing so.
_____________________________________________________________________
You are too stupid to form an opinion Pops as evidenced by you not posting anything on the actual topic of the thread.
Your lack of respect for those who put on the uniform and defend their country is so typical of the liberal cowards.
I have a lack of respect for you son, not those who have served.
_________________________________________________________________________
Ignorant and useless is no way to go through life junior.
nobody knows better than you fat boy.
______________________________________________________
Still can't make a complete thought?
Did they teach you how to be an uninformed bottom-feeder in the socialist reeducation camp?
Children, please. Just stop.
There isn't even a deal that has been finalized yet and there is a good chance still that one won't happen so people should just chill out. If this deal does happen and it is followed as explained it is a very good deal.
The only other option will be bombing and the experts say that at best we can set them back 5 years and if Israel do it themselves maybe 3 years and then they will be right back where they are now. If there is any collateral damage during such bombing then we turn into the bad guys and galvanize the Iranian people against us and unite them with their government.
If anyone thinks more and tougher sanctions will work keep dreaming. They will dig in and speed up their nuke program if we were to increase sanctions and that is if we even could. In order for sanctions to work we need the same cooperation from a bunch of other countries some which we don't like and that don't like us. Very doubtful those countries continue to sanction and increase sanctions if they feel a good deal was passed up and from what I understand most if not all of those countries think of this if it is finalized as described as a very good deal, much better than originally expected and much better than how the Republicans are trying to spin it.
I wonder if, when Iran is a nuclear power, which is likely to happen, and the rest of the Middle East has gone nuclear as well, if you will be willing to concede that perhaps this wasn't such a good idea. I promise if peace breaks out allover I will concede my fears were misplaced. I think thsat is exceedingly unlikely.
Whatever happens, we won't ever know what the long term results would have been for the alternative. There are no guarantees that a more hard line approach would keep Iran from developing a nuclear bomb, in fact there is a case to be made that a hard line approach would make it even more likely for many reasons, not the least of which is that there would be no way to verify what they are or are not doing...unless of course the hard line approach leads to war and war leads to simply blowing Iran off the map, which might keep them from having (or at least deploying) nuclear weapons but I think you might agree that a result like that would come with a whole other set of undesirable outcomes.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by gondicar]
No there are no guarantees that a hardline approach (whatever you think that means) would have prevented them from getting a bomb. One guarantee is that if this "deal" actually goes into effect they will indeed have a bomb and will also continue to breed mischief and foment violence and chaos throughout the region with greater and greater impunity. ANother guarantee is that a Middle Eastern arms race will erupt.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad news. We reached a peaceful deal with Iran that will prevent them from getting the bomb. What a disgrace....negotiating a peace deal. Only a weak leader would do such a thing. Obama clearly supports terrorism by reaching such a deal. It's only a matter of time before this peace deal backfires and Iran arms ISIS and Al-queda with nukes, and we all die. A strong leader like Putin would increase tensions with more animosity, and never work towards peace wth these animals. Where's Putin and Netanyahu when you need them?In all seriousness, I'm glad our hard work paid off. Lets hope both sides hold up their end of the bargain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------In what universe is this a " a peaceful deal with Iran that will prevent them from getting a bomb"? Please explain how this is 1. a deal 2. will prevent Iran from getting a bomb. I am very interested to hear. And if you think only Fox News and Republicans think this is an unmitigated disaster you haven't read very much.
People think this one of Obama's projects is a disaster? You don't say!!! I didn't see this coming at all! I guess only time will be able to answer our questions. And only an arrogant fool would believe they know for sure how this will play out. It seems like a good start, rather than more sanctions, increased tensions, hostility, etc.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by BoytonBrother]
You mean an arrogant fool like our president who is always totally sure of everything he does even after the fact when history has proven him wrong. If you think that opposition to this is driven by partisan hatred of Obama then you really need to do some more reading. The Washington Post and the NY Daily News do not strike me as natutally hostile to Obama. Both endorsed him twice.
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
As usual, unable to form a cogent argument the last desparate resort of the scoundrel is the ad hominum attack.
[Edited on 4/7/2015 by dougrhon]
There isn't even a deal that has been finalized yet and there is a good chance still that one won't happen so people should just chill out. If this deal does happen and it is followed as explained it is a very good deal.
The only other option will be bombing and the experts say that at best we can set them back 5 years and if Israel do it themselves maybe 3 years and then they will be right back where they are now. If there is any collateral damage during such bombing then we turn into the bad guys and galvanize the Iranian people against us and unite them with their government.
If anyone thinks more and tougher sanctions will work keep dreaming. They will dig in and speed up their nuke program if we were to increase sanctions and that is if we even could. In order for sanctions to work we need the same cooperation from a bunch of other countries some which we don't like and that don't like us. Very doubtful those countries continue to sanction and increase sanctions if they feel a good deal was passed up and from what I understand most if not all of those countries think of this if it is finalized as described as a very good deal, much better than originally expected and much better than how the Republicans are trying to spin it.
I wonder if, when Iran is a nuclear power, which is likely to happen, and the rest of the Middle East has gone nuclear as well, if you will be willing to concede that perhaps this wasn't such a good idea. I promise if peace breaks out allover I will concede my fears were misplaced. I think thsat is exceedingly unlikely.
Whatever happens, we won't ever know what the long term results would have been for the alternative. There are no guarantees that a more hard line approach would keep Iran from developing a nuclear bomb, in fact there is a case to be made that a hard line approach would make it even more likely for many reasons, not the least of which is that there would be no way to verify what they are or are not doing...unless of course the hard line approach leads to war and war leads to simply blowing Iran off the map, which might keep them from having (or at least deploying) nuclear weapons but I think you might agree that a result like that would come with a whole other set of undesirable outcomes.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by gondicar]
No there are no guarantees that a hardline approach (whatever you think that means) would have prevented them from getting a bomb. One guarantee is that if this "deal" actually goes into effect they will indeed have a bomb and will also continue to breed mischief and foment violence and chaos throughout the region with greater and greater impunity. ANother guarantee is that a Middle Eastern arms race will erupt.
None of the things you say are guaranteed, are. And all of them are LESS likely, not more, if the framework produces a deal. You can certainly argue the opposite is true, but you cannot argue with any credibility that your dire predictions are guaranteed to happen...when you do, you just end up sounding like another clueless politician.
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
As usual, unable to form a cogent argument the last desparate resort of the scoundrel is the ad hominum attack.
[Edited on 4/7/2015 by dougrhon]
That's ironic given your initial response... 😮
These negotians sound like something that should of happend a long time ago. If they work and prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons I hope it starts the process of getting rid of all the nuclear weapons in the world. It is the 21st century, why do we need them anymore?
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
As usual, unable to form a cogent argument the last desparate resort of the scoundrel is the ad hominum attack.
[Edited on 4/7/2015 by dougrhon]
I agree in a way. I personally think two things should happen before we ever send ground troops to war, especially preemptively.
Number one we should reinstitute the draft with no exemptions for the well off as has been in the past. Either that or have mandatory military service like they have in Israel without exemptions so when we make these decisions to go to war everybody has some flesh in the game. I know this will never happen because the wealthy in this country control everything and like being able to shield themselves and those close to them while pushing for everyone else's kids to go and fight for them.
Number two. There need to be assurances made that the cost of whatever war we enter into and the cost of the aftermath is paid for either by other countries in our coalition who we are helping but who never ante up for our help or by American tax increases for everyone. You want war than it and it's aftermath have to be paid for for decades and it should be paid for by everybody, not by cutting any programs needed by American citizens. If the right want war fine, but don't use it as an excuse to cut programs many Americans need to get by. That is exactly what they will try to do though.
Senior Democrats see Obama’s Iran “deal” is bad for The U.S., dangerous for The World:
Chuck Schumer bucks White House on Iran
The top Democrat throws his weight behind legislation to give Congress power to reject a deal.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/chuck-schumer-bucks-white-house-on-iran-116713.html
So the bomb shelter is almost done but the wife and I are arguing over what color to paint the walls.
I want Yankee blue but she want a soft shade of yellow to cheer things up when the Iranian ICBM's come raining down on us.
We will be down there for a long time when that happens so do you all think I should give in to the Mrs.?
You should make it yellow, but bring the blue can down there with you. After the attack, when you get sick of yellow, you can put a little blue on it, make it green, like an oasis. But if you start with blue, it will be harder to cover it. If you have to cover blue, you would need purple.
I reached a deal with my Lamborghini dealer this morning. The car is mine in my favorite color, green!!!!!!!!
All I have left to do is pass the credit check, agree on the price, put down a substantial deposit, get my insurance company to issue proof of insurance, need my parents and in-laws to co-sign my loan, get my friend to lie to the bank that I have a steady job, find employment, hope to sell my screenplay and land a big deal this spring.
Well if your friend at the bank will lie for you, that can fix the credit report. See if he can report your "job" to the credit bureau before the dealer runs the report, if you have good credit, people always want to give you more, so don't be modest.
As to the rest of you arguing, you all sound like Congress during budget negotiations. What about Iran, what should be done differently than the deal Obama/Kerry hammered out with them?
There isn't even a deal that has been finalized yet and there is a good chance still that one won't happen so people should just chill out. If this deal does happen and it is followed as explained it is a very good deal.
The only other option will be bombing and the experts say that at best we can set them back 5 years and if Israel do it themselves maybe 3 years and then they will be right back where they are now. If there is any collateral damage during such bombing then we turn into the bad guys and galvanize the Iranian people against us and unite them with their government.
If anyone thinks more and tougher sanctions will work keep dreaming. They will dig in and speed up their nuke program if we were to increase sanctions and that is if we even could. In order for sanctions to work we need the same cooperation from a bunch of other countries some which we don't like and that don't like us. Very doubtful those countries continue to sanction and increase sanctions if they feel a good deal was passed up and from what I understand most if not all of those countries think of this if it is finalized as described as a very good deal, much better than originally expected and much better than how the Republicans are trying to spin it.
I wonder if, when Iran is a nuclear power, which is likely to happen, and the rest of the Middle East has gone nuclear as well, if you will be willing to concede that perhaps this wasn't such a good idea. I promise if peace breaks out allover I will concede my fears were misplaced. I think thsat is exceedingly unlikely.
Whatever happens, we won't ever know what the long term results would have been for the alternative. There are no guarantees that a more hard line approach would keep Iran from developing a nuclear bomb, in fact there is a case to be made that a hard line approach would make it even more likely for many reasons, not the least of which is that there would be no way to verify what they are or are not doing...unless of course the hard line approach leads to war and war leads to simply blowing Iran off the map, which might keep them from having (or at least deploying) nuclear weapons but I think you might agree that a result like that would come with a whole other set of undesirable outcomes.
[Edited on 4/6/2015 by gondicar]
No there are no guarantees that a hardline approach (whatever you think that means) would have prevented them from getting a bomb. One guarantee is that if this "deal" actually goes into effect they will indeed have a bomb and will also continue to breed mischief and foment violence and chaos throughout the region with greater and greater impunity. ANother guarantee is that a Middle Eastern arms race will erupt.
None of the things you say are guaranteed, are. And all of them are LESS likely, not more, if the framework produces a deal. You can certainly argue the opposite is true, but you cannot argue with any credibility that your dire predictions are guaranteed to happen...when you do, you just end up sounding like another clueless politician.
I think logic and history says unless something else intervenes they are likely to happen. I cannot conceive of a reason why Iran will not end up with a nuclear bomb based on this.
These negotians sound like something that should of happend a long time ago. If they work and prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons I hope it starts the process of getting rid of all the nuclear weapons in the world. It is the 21st century, why do we need them anymore?
Brother it is the exact opposite. It will be the start of every enemy of Iran in the region obtaining them including but not limited to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Also Turkey will likely end up with them. I would also predict that at some point Japan will no longer feel comfortable behind the American protective shield given how this administration has acted and will develop them as well.
I think those who are in favor of a war with Iran, should enlist to fight in it!. all the chicken-sh!t chicken -hawks, goober, mule turd, doug, oakie, and sign your kids up too.
As usual, unable to form a cogent argument the last desparate resort of the scoundrel is the ad hominum attack.
[Edited on 4/7/2015 by dougrhon]
I agree in a way. I personally think two things should happen before we ever send ground troops to war, especially preemptively.
Number one we should reinstitute the draft with no exemptions for the well off as has been in the past. Either that or have mandatory military service like they have in Israel without exemptions so when we make these decisions to go to war everybody has some flesh in the game. I know this will never happen because the wealthy in this country control everything and like being able to shield themselves and those close to them while pushing for everyone else's kids to go and fight for them.
Number two. There need to be assurances made that the cost of whatever war we enter into and the cost of the aftermath is paid for either by other countries in our coalition who we are helping but who never ante up for our help or by American tax increases for everyone. You want war than it and it's aftermath have to be paid for for decades and it should be paid for by everybody, not by cutting any programs needed by American citizens. If the right want war fine, but don't use it as an excuse to cut programs many Americans need to get by. That is exactly what they will try to do though.
Israel has six million people. The United States has 300 million. The way modern wars are fought there is absolutely no reason for a military draft. Israel has no choice. If it ends up in even a relatively minor war, it has to mobilize its reserves. The entire country is on permanent reserve duty until 45. That is what is necessary when a nation of six million is surrounded by one hundred million brutal enemies.
The United States military has said over and over it does not WANT a military draft and that such a thing would weaken the forces. To institute a draft for the political purpose of preventing or limiting military action is inappropriate.
That said I have long favored some sort of national service requirement for all Americans, not necessarily military. I would be interested to see how those calling for a draft (knowing it won't happen) would react to that.
