Because my complaint and the thread discussion is about guns, I assumed you were referring to the Second.
No. I am always attempting to reference the unfortunate scenarios that exist because of freedom and that no new Law or "extra steps" in registering or the acquisition of a firearm deemed "over the top" is going to in anyway keep weapons out of the hands of criminals as long as there is a Black Market.
I have or offer no solutions, just pointing out what I feel will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....
I have or offer no solutions, just pointing out what I feel will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....
That is exactly what I was doing when I said the gun nuts have ruined the place.
I am not sure why I would need to leave the country for that.
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.
"Every" public place?....or just schools?
Do you like the fact that we have mass shootings all of the time?
What part of Dont Like It Here Move dont you understand?
[Edited on 11/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]
I can't believe I had the nerve to say that I would prefer this country to have fewer gun deaths. I should have just left.
Nah, don't do that. I don't want more gun deaths, and would prefer to see a lot less.
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.
Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?
That's called painting with a broad brush.
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.
Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?
That's called painting with a broad brush.
I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
I don’t think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.
"Every" public place?....or just schools?
Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.
Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?
That's called painting with a broad brush.
I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________________________There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.
Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
I don’t think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Read back to what you posted. You never refer to "those who are", just to "gun nuts". you don't differentiate at all, you include all. So what are we supposed to infer from your posts?
Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. If their moral and religious beliefs are against them owning them, then they should do some type of compulsory social work in "distressed" areas to help teach and mentor kids on social manners and how to avoid being put into a situation where using a gun is not the answer.
Do you think that would help, or do you think gun confiscation is the answer?
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.
"Every" public place?....or just schools?
Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.
Also airports
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.
"Every" public place?....or just schools?
Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.
Also airports
They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.
Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.
Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?
That's called painting with a broad brush.
I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________________________There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.
Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
I don’t think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Read back to what you posted. You never refer to "those who are", just to "gun nuts". you don't differentiate at all, you include all. So what are we supposed to infer from your posts?
Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. If their moral and religious beliefs are against them owning them, then they should do some type of compulsory social work in "distressed" areas to help teach and mentor kids on social manners and how to avoid being put into a situation where using a gun is not the answer.
Do you think that would help, or do you think gun confiscation is the answer?
I did not say originally that gun nuts are anyone who owns a gun. V asked and I clarified.
My 75 year old mother is 4’10” and uses a cain because her inner ear balance mechanisms have been destroyed by chemotherapy. I don’t know what benefits she would get from a pistol and a rifle and a shotgun. My older brother is a high school football coach who at the age of 45 still acts like a high school football player ready to show anybody who challenges him how tough he is. I am thrilled that he owns neither a pistol nor a rifle nor a shotgun.
If somebody wants to own a rifle to hunt, I am all for it.
Saying that ALL adults should own guns is ridiculous. Most people can’t manage their own diets or not be sh!tty parents, why would we want to trust them with guns?
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.
"Every" public place?....or just schools?
Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.
Also airports
They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.
Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.
Again, they also crapped in a hole in their front yard and assumed it was as good as it was going to get. Again, times change... hopefully in ways that make the public safer.
[Edited on 11/28/2019 by adhill58]
I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________________________There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.
Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.
?
This is not the discussion that needs to happen. I doubt the NRA and Senate Republicans are going to say, “You know Jerry and Adam and V had some good points over on the ABB forum.”
Also there have been over 200 people in this country this year that have wanted some place to endure a mass shooting incident and acted on their wishes.
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.
"Every" public place?....or just schools?
Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.
Also airports
They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.
Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.
Again, they also crapped in a whole in their front yard and assumed it was as good as it was going to get. Again, times change... hopefully in ways that make the public safer.
They would go in the barn or stable.
In Germany during WWII some downed crewmen were captured because they couldn't follow the tradition of the local train station toilet was a long bench with holes in it over what the military calls a "slit trench" out in the open with males and females using it side by side. No walls, no dividers.
Which is a good story to learn while in Escape and Evasion school, but it has as much to do with the subject as the last line in your post.
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws
You have the floor...Where would you start?
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws
You have the floor...Where would you start?
How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws
You have the floor...Where would you start?
How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.
I think the issue here is the application of any penalty for selling your gun. How do you prove it if the owner can just claim he never used it and one day it was just ...gone? Is the owner then as guilty as the individual who actually committed a crime in the form of a shooting?
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws
You have the floor...Where would you start?
How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.
I think the issue here is the application of any penalty for selling your gun. How do you prove it if the owner can just claim he never used it and one day it was just ...gone? Is the owner then as guilty as the individual who actually committed a crime in the form of a shooting?
Not as guilty. More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents. If the black market and inability to enforce existing laws are two problems that most people can agree on, wouldn’t this go a long way? Most people don’t want every adult to own three guns. Domestic abusers, parolees, people with mental illness, etc. can all buy guns without background checks in private sales right now.
Early education in the form of appropriate positive-based hands-on info that grade school-aged kids could understand, would be a sound first step IMO
As a kid I always played cops & robbers, cowboys & Indians & games like that w/cap guns or just toy guns - you knew that’s what they were & to stay away from the real thing lest you end up like a bad guy..... 😉
The black market (private sales) is part&parcel of free enterprise - laws could be passed, yes - enforcing them, doubtful
[Edited on 11/28/2019 by Stephen]
More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents.
Not the best example: "there is a presumption that individuals should be responsible for how much alcohol they consume".
I agree wholeheartedly. People should be held fully responsible for their own actions. "If" a Bartender were to serve someone who is obviously incredibly intoxicated, this might hold water, just as if within the guidelines of the current background checks a Gun store were to sell a weapon of any kind to a person with a violent criminal history.....
More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents.
Not the best example: "there is a presumption that individuals should be responsible for how much alcohol they consume".
I agree wholeheartedly. People should be held fully responsible for their own actions. "If" a Bartender were to serve someone who is obviously incredibly intoxicated, this might hold water, just as if within the guidelines of the current background checks a Gun store were to sell a weapon of any kind to a person with a violent criminal history.....
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon, why should a private individual be able to sell the weapon to the same person - knowingly or unknowingly?
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon
I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon
I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.
For private sales, you simply outlaw them. Enforcement may be tough, but it would at least make most people stop.
You are right that a black market will always exist, but shutting down the gray market should be a reasonable step.
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon
I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.
For private sales, you simply outlaw them. Enforcement may be tough, but it would at least make most people stop.
You are right that a black market will always exist, but shutting down the gray market should be a reasonable step.
Mmmmmmm, NO. Let's get the mistaken use of "private sales=black market" out of the vernacular. There are private sales, then there is the black market.
There have been discussions of making private sales go through an FFL dealer. problems with that is that not everyone lives close to an FFL dealer that can do a background check.
If you looked at the ATF form 4473 you will see that there is a provision (Question 21) that does not require the background check if the buyer has the state permit.
The permits have their own background check and are to be issued from the local law enforcement agency. Problem is that some states and counties do not follow the shall issue and have a much cavalier attitude about issuing the permits.
NY sate and California are two of the worst offenders. Several county departments have had arrests due to everything from bribery to personal attacks toward those who file for permits.
WHEN, not if, this problem is taken care of, those who have the permits have no problem purchasing a firearm.
I have bought and sold firearms privately, but only if I can see their permit. If not, they have to purchase from a dealer.
Second reason that proposal was shut down was that if you gave a firearm to your son, daughter, wife, husband, or if any of them inherited your firearms, the legislation said you would have to turn it over to a dealer and have background checks run on the people you were giving, or willed them to.
Here's a little factoid for you about how far criminals will go to acquire firearms.
A few, well actually about 30 years ago, convicts at Reidsville prison were found to be manufacturing reasonably
well made single shot pistols and rifles in the prison machine shop. A shakedown found several dozen hidden in places around the prison.
So, you could shut down every gun shop, gun show, private sale, confiscate every known firearm in the country, and criminals would still find a way to get a firearm.
Anytime I see a politico fervently pushing "gun control", I think back about Leland Yee and his unabashed support for getting firearms out of the hands of the general public.
https://huffpost.com/entry/leland-yee-gun-trafficing_n_5038152
I also think about how Nancy Pelosi has a concealed carry permit when few in her district can't get one.
Oh, and you can go to:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/california-state-sen-leland-yee-indicted-weapons-charges/story?id=23082339
If you haven't figured it out yet, he was trying to get in full automatic weapons and shoulder fire missiles (RPGs) and other types of weapons for a Chinese gang.
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence"
When reasonable gun measures are proposed
Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?
Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?
7 out of the 10 worst mass shootings in U.S. history occurred in red states, so yeah, one can argue that point if they want to be irrelevant. TX is by far the king of mass shootings, but I would never suggest that it's because of the Republican leadership, because that would be stupid.
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence"
Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence", which contributes nothing to the conversation and is counterproductive to finding a way to combat an epidemic unique to the United States. When reasonable gun measures are proposed, Republicans in Washington sell out to the NRA and the pro-gun base. Despite the fact that there are many Americans who suffer from a wide variety of mental disorders who go their whole lives untreated, who had very sh*tty parents, there's a significant portion of our population, as we've heard in this thread, that would sell them firearms. You guys win - go ahead and sell, sell, sell.
Pretty crazy that the Republican base is condoning the President's repeated attacks on distinguished military heroes, undermining all intelligence agencies, praising foreign dictator adversaries, collaboration with foreign entities to attack an American, and now proposing armed guards in our schools, and a society where all adults are carrying loaded firearms in public to protect against domestic terrorism - just how the Founding Fathers envisioned it!
Got that out of your system now?
Please get a spell check on your browser, or at least correct the words it highlights if you already have one.
Then again, you might be typing faster than your brain can register "Oh, I misspelled that word."
I've never come across a school system that didn't have armed guards on campus. You posted that most do not. I asked you where those systems were, but you have as yet given any information of those locations, not the first one.
So, yes, there armed guards at schools, and have been for a long time.
I have not seen any type of "reasonable" gun measures proposed since the 1968 GCA which stopped the mail order business of firearms except for muzzle loaders.
Every "reasonable" proposal since then has been more and more restrictions on law abiding citizens, not criminals. Some "reasonable" proposals would have made some citizens criminals, and even would have violated SEVERAL amendments in the Bill Of Rights.
Some were even proposed by Republicans.
I hope to God that our representatives keep selling out to the gun base. We're of BOTH parties, all walks of life, all income brackets, all races, and most religions. Some are even politicians. Which means, NO, I don't hate democrats for gun violence. I despise the ones who wish to disarm by small measures. Constant increments of denying the gun rights are in use in several places around the country. Little bit by little bit the hue and cry of "we must do this about gun violence" and there actually isn't anything in the proposals to help curb violence. No provisions of longer jail terms, stiffer fines, or anything that might result in lower crime rates with firearms.
I posted about California and New York due to their attitude of issuing state gun permits. Why don't they issue them? A full background check is done before it can be issued, so that objection is moot.
BUT, very few are issued to civilians, even when they pass the background checks. Now if you could give me an answer why the Dems now keep proposing background checks as a measure to purchase a firearm when the
program is already in effect for those who wish to purchase a firearm?
Note: I have yet to bring up Chicago. I will, and include several other Michigan towns if you wish.
Did you enjoy the links to why I distrust any politician who is rabidly fervent about civilian disarmament?
Or do you think it was ok for former senator Yee to keep firearms out of the hands of civilians while he was negotiating with a Chinese Tong to illegally bring in actual machine guns, rocket launchers, and RPGs for criminals to use and/or sell on the actual Black Market?
You couldn't keep up the dialog so you included a diatribe about the President?
By the way, I'm not a member of the NRA. They don't go far enough to protect the rights of the American citizen.
AND, I'm still waiting for you to let me know who "they" are that knows where those millions of untreated mentally ill
citizens are that "they" know are going to purchase firearms and go about creating mass havoc.
Last note on this post: Gun control is aiming true on your target, letting out a breath, slowly pulling on the trigger, and hitting the target you are aiming for.
Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?
I don't know what your point is, but my issue was with Jerry's post. No need to take it any other way.
My "Point" is that the States you've listed are among the ones with the most stringent Gun Laws, yet they are all high firearm related crime states. If the "argument" is both moral and legal, then countering with "7 out of 10" is pretty weak if your defense is anyway trying to push across the image that "More nuts are to be found in Red States"....
Too Funny
Good for you!
Does this mean no answers to questions?
