.Let's start holding the Parents responsible for the actions of their Minor children.....
THAT is a GOOD solution.
Shooter was the son of an alcoholic father who had recently committed suicide.
Definitely liberal parenting. There’s no conservative alcoholics and conservatives don’t commit suicide.
Look man I realized how bad the post looked immediately and edited it to indicate that. I could have deleted that part but felt like it would be dishonest. So I poked at my own flaw. You sound like an excellent parent. I am sorry that your political beliefs are flawed, But clearly mine are as well. Perhaps somewhere in middle....yeah not likely, I've seen a lot of your posts and you have seen a lot of mine.
Some friends of ours go to school at Saugus High. Fortunately, they don't have a first period class so they were on there way there when the shooting happened. They returned home and are safe. Right now, that's all the matters to me and my family.
Amen to that.
The words Republican & Democrat don’t belong here
Amen to that too.
Look man I realized how bad the post looked immediately and edited it to indicate that. I could have deleted that part but felt like it would be dishonest. So I poked at my own flaw. You sound like an excellent parent. I am sorry that your political beliefs are flawed, But clearly mine are as well. Perhaps somewhere in middle....yeah not likely, I've seen a lot of your posts and you have seen a lot of mine.
There's no reason for any lingering bad blood. Wasn't even comparing my worth as a parent to you. We've never met.
But, politics is very mean and very nasty these days. We all make our own choices when it comes to responses. I used to give a lot of thought to them and at one time I was committed to finding better conversations. Sure, there were always swipes at each other, but some of the best conversations I've ever had about a lot of political issues I've had on this website.
Over time, people cared less and less about the longer, more analytical responses, I realized no one cares, so I gave up. Why bother if no one reads it?
The only way to survive in political discourse is to always reply in kind. Rush Limbaugh went on air 30 years ago and the demonization of liberals hasn't stopped since. I wish more liberals would stand up for themselves and reply with the same vitriol that they receive, just as much as I wish that more liberals would realize that the right will always hate them. Always. No matter what, nothing trumps that hatred, and nothing ever will. Pun intended.
But, in the end, I'm only one schmo with an opinion.
I wish you well.
Look man I realized how bad the post looked immediately and edited it to indicate that. I could have deleted that part but felt like it would be dishonest. So I poked at my own flaw. You sound like an excellent parent. I am sorry that your political beliefs are flawed, But clearly mine are as well. Perhaps somewhere in middle....yeah not likely, I've seen a lot of your posts and you have seen a lot of mine.
There's no reason for any lingering bad blood. Wasn't even comparing my worth as a parent to you. We've never met.
But, politics is very mean and very nasty these days. We all make our own choices when it comes to responses. I used to give a lot of thought to them and at one time I was committed to finding better conversations. Sure, there were always swipes at each other, but some of the best conversations I've ever had about a lot of political issues I've had on this website.
Over time, people cared less and less about the longer, more analytical responses, I realized no one cares, so I gave up. Why bother if no one reads it?
The only way to survive in political discourse is to always reply in kind. Rush Limbaugh went on air 30 years ago and the demonization of liberals hasn't stopped since. I wish more liberals would stand up for themselves and reply with the same vitriol that they receive, just as much as I wish that more liberals would realize that the right will always hate them. Always. No matter what, nothing trumps that hatred, and nothing ever will. Pun intended.
But, in the end, I'm only one schmo with an opinion.
I wish you well.
Back at ya again. I couldn't find one damn thing to disagree with in that post. I might add a vice-versa to the 2nd to last paragraph.(That's wice-wersa in Russian) Guess I'll look somewhere else for conflict. 😉
But it's NOT a Mental Heath issue...
Who is saying this? Any links? Or is this just more huffing and puffing about Democrats?
It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns. I have yet to hear somebody who thinks these shootings are due to mental health issues propose that the government put more resources into treating mental illness, and most also oppose expanded background checks to keep guns out of the hands of those with mental illness.
It basically means that I support the status quo, it's not the guns, so just move along.
It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns.
No. "It's a way" of saying the gun is not to blame when someone with Mental health challenges turns a gun on innocent people...
His condition was initially listed as “grave” but the shooter has now been upgraded to critical & might survive
There was no apparent mental illness on his part, it took everyone by complete surprise
On a more positive note an apparently-credible threat at another school was thwarted, so mayb some of the anti mass-shooting measures in place, are proving out
There was no apparent mental illness on his part, it took everyone by complete surprise
"Took everyone by complete surprise"....."no apparent mental illness"
What other possible reason could there be that does not lead back to Mental illness?
I get ya, for sure - mayb he had some sort of undetected dormant imbalance that got activated who knows how - was described in one account as “a quiet dude” - they found other guns at his house apparently
It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns.
No. "It's a way" of saying the gun is not to blame when someone with Mental health challenges turns a gun on innocent people...
Yet I see you propose zero solutions to the problem. You oppose increased background checks. I haven't seen you propose additional resources going toward mental health. So, what is your solution?
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.
If you say you only want compromise, they’ll never believe you anyway.
The core tenet of hyper-polarization and hyper-partisanship is that the “other” lives their lives in a way that is unacceptable...it’s about how people live their lives.
That’s why phrases like “agree to disagree” and “honest, respectful debate” have become so silly and quaint.
There’s no going back.
Guns became a problem the minute they were invented. They continue to be today, always will be & no rhetoric, conversation or legislation will change things
One media outlet is reporting that the shooter has passed away
Yes he did, & the grim possibilities portrayed by you & he of armed squads in public places/classrooms, as part of national martial law in addressing Gun Violence/Mass Shootings
....we saw the makings of it in airports after 9/11, with armed US marshals & federal lawmen posted in every major airport & on some flights - it was very intense the one or two times I went to an airport (Logan) around then - soldiers in fatigues & berets, machine gun in hand
We can only Monitor, not control the ebb & flow of GV/MS - continued communication/conversation (brainstorming as skydog3210 said) is also paramount
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.
What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?
It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns.
No. "It's a way" of saying the gun is not to blame when someone with Mental health challenges turns a gun on innocent people...
Yet I see you propose zero solutions to the problem. You oppose increased background checks. I haven't seen you propose additional resources going toward mental health. So, what is your solution?
I am not opposed to increased background checks, I do however feel they are not the solution, because more Laws are never the answer. Imho, this is an issue that can not be "fixed" until the public takes individual responsibility....which at this rate will never happen.
I am not a Legislator.
I suggest you purchase a gun and protect you and yours.
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.
What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?
Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.
Gunfire erupted at a high school football game yesterday in NJ, leaving a 10 year old boy caught in the crossfire & in critical condition
It’s sick - yes am convinced it’s an epidemic - all the recent one-year stories of the Pittsburgh synagogue & Ft. Hood massacres, now these most recent two
It’s an epidemic for which there’s no cure or end in sight
Clearly the only solution is to require all school children to be armed as is their right under the second amendment.
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.
What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?
Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I look forward to your future defense of the opaque "leadership" as conferred by the "geniuses" of the Democratic Party.
There was a backyard cookout yesterday in Fresno Calif w/people watching football etc
Four shot dead at this BBQ - people showed up, starting shooting, fled - other circumstances unclear
These last two incidents may not be charted on the graph adhill58 provided as ‘mass shootings’ but they should be
nothing abstract or mysterious about it, this is a horrendous thing that is happening all the time
Jerry mentioned the Eddie the Eagle program that used to be offered in elementary schools
Something like that needs to be reintroduced into grade school in an effort to properly educate youngsters about guns - that yes, they’re toys now but as grownups they’re not toys anymore
Otherwise the scenario described in 2112’s most recent post, may not be so far fetched
David Ortiz was the victim of gun violence but has completely recovered, & happy birthday Big Papi - 44 today
[Edited on 11/18/2019 by Stephen]
So who exactly is the "Well regulated militia" can anyone point to those people?? "Well regulated" doesn't seem to be the way it is. Nor is there a militia. We have local, county, state, federal police, FBI, CIA, Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force, National Guard, Coast Guard did I leave out any of the "Well regulated militia".
I think the founders would have found those institutions to be the one covered in the 2A not a bunch of fat phucks who want to jerk off at the shooting range with military grade weapons until they become another of the "law abiding citizen" that suddenly have "mental health" issues or their kids find the weapon and has a "temper tantrum"
Is Joe Blow AR15 gun owner that sits at the end of the bar that spouts nonsense a part of the "Well regulated militia"?
I doubt the founder fathers would have thought so
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.
What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?
Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.
But BIGV proves the very point since he ask rhetorically, thereby implying the extreme sound bite ("hell yes"), but ignores the actual content of Beto's statement ("taking AR-15s, your AK47s"). It was relatively middle ground, but for some reason some people insist on the NRA line that some guns=all guns. If only the Lawn Dart lobby was so strong.
3 DEAD IN SHOOTOUT AT WALMART PARKING LOT IN OKLA
No more reminders necessary, will stop
. . .nothing will change.
If everyone were to arm themselves at all times everything will change.
SOMEthing has to change - WHAT that change is, is the blank area - don’t forget, 22 people were shot dead at a Walmart in El Paso in August
All these scenarios of a fully armed citizenry could happen - you certainly can’t take all the guns away
So who exactly is the "Well regulated militia" can anyone point to those people?? "Well regulated" doesn't seem to be the way it is. Nor is there a militia. We have local, county, state, federal police, FBI, CIA, Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force, National Guard, Coast Guard did I leave out any of the "Well regulated militia".
I think the founders would have found those institutions to be the one covered in the 2A not a bunch of fat phucks who want to jerk off at the shooting range with military grade weapons until they become another of the "law abiding citizen" that suddenly have "mental health" issues or their kids find the weapon and has a "temper tantrum"
Is Joe Blow AR15 gun owner that sits at the end of the bar that spouts nonsense a part of the "Well regulated militia"?
I doubt the founder fathers would have thought so
The "well regulated militia" is not who the founding fathers addressed in the 2nd Amendment.
Here's the 2nd Amendment in full:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. (Caps so you know where the break is.)
It doesn't say the right of the militia, it states the right of the people, you know the same the people as in the first line of the Constitution, and the only line that was in capitol letters throughout the Constitution.
Goldtop, your seemingly hatred for those who own firearms has been noted. I don't believe it to be an opinion, just somehow you don't like firearms and those who own them. I also find your descriptive phrases to be offensive.
In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.
There are militias out there, but you don't have to be a member of a militia to be part of the people.
. . .nothing will change.
If everyone were to arm themselves at all times everything will change. We will live in a ballistic dystopia we can't even conceive of - total military alert, total surveillance, the measure of weapons and personnel in law enforcement will increase in direct proportion to the number of armed citizens carrying.
The only winner in all this is the firearm industry - every massacre increases sales, every sale increases massacres - they are laughing all the way to the bank.
I was having this same discussion with my boss the other day. I stated the point of view of the gun industry like this, "We have sold enough guns to create a problem to which the only solution is selling more guns."
Jerry mentioned the Eddie the Eagle program that used to be offered in elementary schools
Something like that needs to be reintroduced into grade school in an effort to properly educate youngsters about guns - that yes, they’re toys now but as grownups they’re not toys anymore
[Edited on 11/18/2019 by Stephen]
https://eddieeagle.nra.org/about/
It's a great program. Teaches kids what to do if they see a firearm. "STOP, Don't Touch, Run Away, Tell A grownup."
Problem is that so many "enlightened" parents see the dreaded letters NRA and don't want their kids having anything to do with it.
When my kids were little it wasn't available. I started teaching them firearm safety at about three years old. That's when their curiosity sometimes get the better of them and we've seen what sometimes happen when kids get curious about things, even deadly things.
So really, the earlier they learn firearm safety, the better.
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.
What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?
Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.
But BIGV proves the very point since he ask rhetorically, thereby implying the extreme sound bite ("hell yes"), but ignores the actual content of Beto's statement ("taking AR-15s, your AK47s"). It was relatively middle ground, but for some reason some people insist on the NRA line that some guns=all guns. If only the Lawn Dart lobby was so strong.
You left out the part of forced confiscations.
Goldtop, your seemingly hatred for those who own firearms has been noted. I don't believe it to be an opinion, just somehow you don't like firearms and those who own them. I also find your descriptive phrases to be offensive.
In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.
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If you are not one of the "shootin' range" jackasses that Goldtop was referencing, there is no need to be offended. He has a point that a certain percentage (which calculates to millions) of gun-o-philes are stone cold losers. The power of a guns is obviously very attractive to people who cannot find success in normal social operating systems.
In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone crapped into a hole in their yard and thought it was sanitary. Times change... hopefully for the good of public health. By "public health", I mean not having bullet holes in your body at the grocery store.
In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.
True, but what kind of firearms were they? Big difference between muzzleloading flintlock muskets and what is used to shoot up schools today.
I left this out of my earlier posts because I wanted it to stand alone, no modifiers, no protests, no arguing.
My heart lies heavy knowing the pain and suffering of the families involved in any shooting.
The victims ask "why us, him, or her"?
The killers' who ask "Why did he/she do it?
The friends and neighbors say "We didn't see it coming!"
There never is just one reason, but multiples. Could it be drugs, bullying, being left out of groups, frustration of forced to be a loner?
Many times we will never know what, why, or who set off the incident.
Right now there is nothing we can do for the ones left behind except empathy for them and support, until we come together, as a group of people, to find ways to handle the threats of these shootings.
