I have been wondering about something in the last week. I live in the south and there have been a lot of confederate flag rally's by "southerners" saying it's not about race. As hard as I look, I never seem to see any African Americans southerners in any of these rally's?
If it's about "southern" pride, why is that?Because where African Americans are offended by the flag because the KKK adopted it in the 1960's
I guess if there was a historical slavery flag African Americans could rally behind, it would make everyone happy.
White people with southern pride could walk down the sidewalks of "black neighborhoods" on the nice side of town (see evolve), and not feel any anger in seeing the flag which historically reminds African Americans of the southern pride felt for their ancestors who were owned by white men.
At this point I really wish Warren would have just commented on paint drying or the weather.
You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
You evidently didn't read what I wrote or you are simply an idiot and I'm beginning to think it's the latter. I was born in 1955 and best to my knowledge there was no slavery and I wasn;t doing anything to enslave anybody and I didn't know anyone who was. We just grew up in a sleepy, quiet, and happy time. It was Happy Days. Nobody thought anything really bad or good about the Conderate flag except that it hung around like a backdrop as the symbol of the good old life down in the South.
Now see if you can get this concept - I know it's hard for stupid people, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Because of how and where I grew up, that flag conjures up a lot of good feelings for ME and a lot of other good people like me down here who don't hate anybody or want to offend people. I realize it affects some people differently and as I have ALREADY STATED ABOUT !4 times in this thread, I don't want to offend people and I am glad my General Assembly has removed the flag from our Statehouse grounds. But that flag means different things to different people and not all people who love the flag are the narrow way you think they are. I don't know if you can accept that people can agree to disagree and tolerate each other and still be friends. That's the way I wish it were and think it ought to be but I suppose geniuses like you who claim to be experts about people and objects about which you know nothing know better. NOT!
Because where African Americans are offended by the flag because the KKK adopted it in the 1960's
And what did the KKK use before the Confederate battle flag?
Let's see...While we are cleaning house here and reconsidering symbols that have been embraced by the KKK....Here is an early illustration of the KKK (judging by the cars early 1900's) that contains several reprehensible symbols that we might do well to do away with:
Excuse me, are you a member of the KKK? I wouldn't advertise that if I were you. Obviously, you are a racist hate monger. And oh my God, Hitler ate cabbage and you ate cabbage, therefore you must be a Nazi!
[Edited on 7/13/2015 by wearly89]
or the weather.
There are symbols for that! 
You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
You evidently didn't read what I wrote or you are simply an idiot and I'm beginning to think it's the latter. I was born in 1955 and best to my knowledge there was no slavery and I wasn;t doing anything to enslave anybody and I didn't know anyone who was. We just grew up in a sleepy, quiet, and happy time. It was Happy Days. Nobody thought anything really bad or good about the Conderate flag except that it hung around like a backdrop as the symbol of the good old life down in the South.
Now see if you can get this concept - I know it's hard for stupid people, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Because of how and where I grew up, that flag conjures up a lot of good feelings for ME and a lot of other good people like me down here who don't hate anybody or want to offend people. I realize it affects some people differently and as I have ALREADY STATED ABOUT !4 times in this thread, I don't want to offend people and I am glad my General Assembly has removed the flag from our Statehouse grounds. But that flag means different things to different people and not all people who love the flag are the narrow way you think they are. I don't know if you can accept that people can agree to disagree and tolerate each other and still be friends. That's the way I wish it were and think it ought to be but I suppose geniuses like you who claim to be experts about people and objects about which you know nothing know better. NOT!
Sounds like the Idiots are the people who wrapped you in good feeling about a flag of treason...sort of like Hitler youth and the swastika....Since you were born in 1955 then you should very aware of what that flag truly represents and the fact that you hide behind it with good feelings really shows who the idiot is....
You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.
Two points:
1. No one is outlawing the Confederate Flag in the State of South Carolina, nor in any other State.
2. The specific flag taken down in South Carolina was initially raised as a symbol of hate and racism. It was a giant FU to the Civil Rights Act.
You keep missing that point Wearly. As I, and several others have stated, we don't care if you fly the flag.
Right here, North of Fredericksburg, there is a move afoot to change the name of Jefferson Davis Highway. I find this a ridiculous reaction. That said, I do not have to show tolerance to people displaying the Confederate Flag as a symbol of White Supremacy, racism or hate.
The flag in South Carolina was hoisted as a symbol of all those things.
You are flat out wrong or simply misguided on both of your points, ok?
#1) I never said that the flag was outlawed anywhere so I don't even know where you're going with that.
#2) I would add that the flag was raised over the State Capitol building by Democratic Governor and subsequent US Senator for 38 years, Fritz Hollings. His wife died two years ago and I was at her funeral. He's a good man who was defending some principals which he later bailed on for political expediency. However, accepting that, he and a lot of other people genuinely supported the advancement of black people but disagreed that Federal forced integration, forced bussing of children sometimes over 50 miles from home to acheive racial quotas, and giant wealth transfer programs financed by limitless debt was the right way to achieve it.
If you think that race relations are significantly better today than the day that flag was raised over our Statehouse, I don't know what world you're living in. Perhaps you could offer me some evidence that Federal intrusion into this realm has been at all successful between 1964 and now because I don't see a shred. There is still aberrantly high unemployment, poor education, poor health, more dependency, more crime, more unwed mothers, and more poverty among the black population than perhaps even in 1964. Add to that all the crushing debt we have placed on our children and grandchilren by unrestrained Federal spending now financed by borrowing 42 cents of every dollar spent. Do you think there were other ways we could have achieved better results? I do. The flag was raised defiantly toward the Federal encroachment at that time. It was not perceived as a symbol of hate - beligerance toward the Federal government certainly, but not as White Supremacy, racism, or hate by the great majority of South Carolinians. Opposing a pending disasterous Federal law like the Civil Rights Act, which was and is a horrible piece of legislation, or equally destructive Obamacare, does not denote of any of that crap. There are other ideas which I and many many other people believe would achieve the desired goals with better results.
It's as simple as that, my friend, honest differences of opinion which you prefer to call that other stuff. I guess it makes you feel superior to condescend to people with whom you disagree or something. It might work for you but the stuff you progressives support is so spectacularly disastrous and unsuccessful it laughable to me that you would condescend to anyone. It's a remarkable combination of ignorance and arrogance coming from your side of the fence. I really don't understand why people like you think the Federal government is infallible and that anyone who believes a much more limited role for the Federal government would be greatly beneficial to everyone of all races, beliefs, religions, sexual orientations, etc., are racists, homophobes, hate mongers, white supremecists, klansmen, misogynists, or the rest of the tiresome litany of ridiculous labels you use from issue to issue. Why isn't there room for other ideas and opinions? Why can't people just tolerate each others differences? I don't get it. Perhaps you could explain that. Having lived here for 60 years I think I know at least a little bit more about living in South Carolina than you do, but apparently you think you know more. I meet with clients and people from all walks of life every day and I have never ever heard anything nearly as hateful as the stuff you have said here in this thread about me and people I live with. You make white supremecist, racists and hate mongers look like Mother Theresa.
You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
You evidently didn't read what I wrote or you are simply an idiot and I'm beginning to think it's the latter. I was born in 1955 and best to my knowledge there was no slavery and I wasn;t doing anything to enslave anybody and I didn't know anyone who was. We just grew up in a sleepy, quiet, and happy time. It was Happy Days. Nobody thought anything really bad or good about the Conderate flag except that it hung around like a backdrop as the symbol of the good old life down in the South.
Now see if you can get this concept - I know it's hard for stupid people, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Because of how and where I grew up, that flag conjures up a lot of good feelings for ME and a lot of other good people like me down here who don't hate anybody or want to offend people. I realize it affects some people differently and as I have ALREADY STATED ABOUT !4 times in this thread, I don't want to offend people and I am glad my General Assembly has removed the flag from our Statehouse grounds. But that flag means different things to different people and not all people who love the flag are the narrow way you think they are. I don't know if you can accept that people can agree to disagree and tolerate each other and still be friends. That's the way I wish it were and think it ought to be but I suppose geniuses like you who claim to be experts about people and objects about which you know nothing know better. NOT!
Sounds like the Idiots are the people who wrapped you in good feeling about a flag of treason...sort of like Hitler youth and the swastika....Since you were born in 1955 then you should very aware of what that flag truly represents and the fact that you hide behind it with good feelings really shows who the idiot is....
It ain't me. It's you!
You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.
Two points:
1. No one is outlawing the Confederate Flag in the State of South Carolina, nor in any other State.
2. The specific flag taken down in South Carolina was initially raised as a symbol of hate and racism. It was a giant FU to the Civil Rights Act.
You keep missing that point Wearly. As I, and several others have stated, we don't care if you fly the flag.
Right here, North of Fredericksburg, there is a move afoot to change the name of Jefferson Davis Highway. I find this a ridiculous reaction. That said, I do not have to show tolerance to people displaying the Confederate Flag as a symbol of White Supremacy, racism or hate.
The flag in South Carolina was hoisted as a symbol of all those things.
You are flat out wrong or simply misguided on both of your points, ok?
#1) I never said that the flag was outlawed anywhere so I don't even know where you're going with that.
#2) I would add that the flag was raised over the State Capitol building by Democratic Governor and subsequent US Senator for 38 years, Fritz Hollings. His wife died two years ago and I was at her funeral. He's a good man who was defending some principals which he later bailed on for political expediency. However, accepting that, he and a lot of other people genuinely supported the advancement of black people but disagreed that Federal forced integration, forced bussing of children sometimes over 50 miles from home to acheive racial quotas, and giant wealth transfer programs financed by limitless debt was the right way to achieve it.If you think that race relations are significantly better today than the day that flag was raised over our Statehouse, I don't know what world you're living in. Perhaps you could offer me some evidence that Federal intrusion into this realm has been at all successful between 1964 and now because I don't see a shred. There is still aberrantly high unemployment, poor education, poor health, more dependency, more crime, more unwed mothers, and more poverty among the black population than perhaps even in 1964. Add to that all the crushing debt we have placed on our children and grandchilren by unrestrained Federal spending now financed by borrowing 42 cents of every dollar spent. Do you think there were other ways we could have achieved better results? I do. The flag was raised defiantly toward the Federal encroachment at that time. It was not perceived as a symbol of hate - beligerance toward the Federal government certainly, but not as White Supremacy, racism, or hate by the great majority of South Carolinians. Opposing a pending disasterous Federal law like the Civil Rights Act, which was and is a horrible piece of legislation, or equally destructive Obamacare, does not denote of any of that crap. There are other ideas which I and many many other people believe would achieve the desired goals with better results.
It's as simple as that, my friend, honest differences of opinion which you prefer to call that other stuff. I guess it makes you feel superior to condescend to people with whom you disagree or something. It might work for you but the stuff you progressives support is so spectacularly disastrous and unsuccessful it is laughable to me that you would condescend to anyone. It's a remarkable combination of ignorance and arrogance coming from your side of the fence. I really don't understand why people like you think the Federal government is infallible and that anyone who believes a much more limited role for the Federal government would be greatly beneficial to everyone of all races, beliefs, religions, sexual orientations, etc., are racists, homophobes, hate mongers, white supremecists, klansmen, misogynists, or the rest of the tiresome litany of ridiculous labels you use from issue to issue. Why isn't there room for other ideas and opinions? Why can't people just tolerate each others differences? I don't get it. Perhaps you could explain that. Having lived here for 60 years I think I know at least a little bit more about living in South Carolina than you do, but apparently you think you know more. I meet with clients and people from all walks of life every day and I have never ever heard anything nearly as hateful as the stuff you have said here in this thread about me and people I live with. You make white supremecist, racists and hate mongers look like Mother Theresa.
Excuse me, are you a member of the KKK? I wouldn't advertise that if I were you. Obviously, you are a racist hate monger. And oh my God, Hitler ate cabbage and you ate cabbage, therefore you must be a Nazi!
Nope. About as far from KKK as you can get. Did you hear that whooshing sound when you read my post? That was the irony of my post flying right over your head. Cabbage? This is turning into classic Whipping Post material, wearly you'll feel right at home there! Bring along a sense of humor tho, believe me you will feel better about it all.
Anyway, sorry for topping this thread again folks... it is an insult to Anything Goes, and I will be more than happy to continue this brawl in the Whipping Post!
Time to move this over to the Whipping Post, gentlemen! There's a perfectly adequate Confederate flag thread going there too, just as nauseating, plenty of opportunity for everyone to vent their spleen and prove that yes, we are all idiots.
[Edited on 7/14/2015 by BrerRabbit]
You flying over my head when you were too stupid to see how perfectly my metaphor exposed the fallacy of your jello logic? I think not!
Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis both wrote after the Civil war that the confederate flag should be taken down & put away... It was brought back in the 60's by those wishing to spread hate & fight against civil rights for all...
Wearly89 this is the same kind of crap you used to start over on Dickey's site years ago... please crawl back under your flag draped rock...
The thing is: It is KNOWN that the flag causes bad feelings with many
Oh the horror! There’s those hurt feelings again!
Bird72 - Sorry for the sarcasm but please step back from the emotion and critically think about what you just said. is saying a lot more about himself than about any other group of people. Laugh it off.
You don't "get" what I said. I have no "emotion" going on, strictly logic. Black people in general are offended by the flag is my point. "hurt" was a choice of words. the POINT is, why would anyone do something that they KNOW "OFFENDS" (happy now?) someone else? Unless they DO NOT CARE about that someone else. You can laugh off whatever you want, I am not. Offending blacks seems to mean something to me. Respond directly to this, not estimating my mental state while writing.
Tony, ........ Could it be that you are just another of the giant gaping rectal crevices around here?
Thank you for proving my point. I never called you a derogatory juvenile insult. You do me. Shows your emotional maturity and mental state. I am done with you. You are at a level I won't interact on. 8th grade, fellow. Grow up. Say stuff like that to people's faces in life, see how that goes. Be Mohammed Ali of the keyboard, whatever. But please, work on your responses. I left 7th grade a long effin time ago. Have a nice life, done with you.
There you go again with your hate mongering white supremacist rebel yelling jargon. You must be a Grand Dragon.
never mind
[Edited on 7/15/2015 by BrerRabbit]
Sounds like the Idiots are the people who wrapped you in good feeling about a flag of treason...sort of like Hitler youth and the swastika....Since you were born in 1955 then you should very aware of what that flag truly represents and the fact that you hide behind it with good feelings really shows who the idiot is....
They split off to form their own country. You may recall The first Revolutionary War? That was treason too. Doesn't mean they weren't right.
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
This is what is so frustrating with this type of thinking. It's so naive. People believe (again, because it makes them feel good) that there was a magical line of altruism. All Americans above that line loved man and decided to give their lives to free slaves. But for some reason they had riots a hundred years later. Guess the magical line lost it's power.
Do some independent reading (not government mandated). Look at the timeline when Lincoln started talking up emancipation. Why didn't he free northern slaves before the war? Why did he jail journalists without trial? The Emancipation Proclamation proposed freeing slaves ONLY in another country.
Regarding not wanting to pay them to work vs. slavery, you do realize this was 150 years ago? You might as well ask why didn't they sanitize their surgical tools! Slavery was common place in that day and age and had been through out human history! They also slaughtered Indians. Do you know who built our railroads? How about the internment camps of WWII? Why don't people get mad at other country's history of slavery? Lot's of peoples have been enslaved. Atrocities have always and continue to happen, but for some reason it's only the American South and African- Americans that continue and constantly get attention.
There are words in our language like bitch and bastard that have legitimate definitions - but their usage is so most often in a derogative manner that the most civilized among us do not use them in mixed public. The confederate flag has come to have equally negative connotations. For some, it might represent dignified history (argue among yourselves) but it is also most certainly a vile symbol to others.
In my opinion, the proper place for this icon is in a museum, though folks are certainly free to display it their own home or even on themselves as clothing.
I will say (or advise) that a public display just might project some very negative stereotypes upon the displayer. Just a few days ago, I saw a young man driving through our village in a pickup truck with two very large confederate flags flying over the truck bed. He parked the vehicle and I walked over for a closer look. As he got out of the vehicle I noticed that he was wearing denim cut-offs and no shirt - revealing a "tourist's tan" (severe sunburn from waist to chin). He reeked of cheap beer.
While I try to refrain from making character assumptions about folks I've just met, I think it was safe to guess that this guy didn't go to Harvard. 😉
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
This is what is so frustrating with this type of thinking. It's so naive. People believe (again, because it makes them feel good) that there was a magical line of altruism. All Americans above that line loved man and decided to give their lives to free slaves. But for some reason they had riots a hundred years later. Guess the magical line lost it's power.
Do some independent reading (not government mandated). Look at the timeline when Lincoln started talking up emancipation. Why didn't he free northern slaves before the war? Why did he jail journalists without trial? The Emancipation Proclamation proposed freeing slaves ONLY in another country.
Regarding not wanting to pay them to work vs. slavery, you do realize this was 150 years ago? You might as well ask why didn't they sanitize their surgical tools! Slavery was common place in that day and age and had been through out human history! They also slaughtered Indians. Do you know who built our railroads? How about the internment camps of WWII? Why don't people get mad at other country's history of slavery? Lot's of peoples have been enslaved. Atrocities have always and continue to happen, but for some reason it's only the American South and African- Americans that continue and constantly get attention.
So what is your point? slavery was o.k. because of the other bad things that happened to other groups of people and this means the atrocity of slavery is being blown out of proportion? Not trying to be a pr*ck but I am not following your logic here.
[Edited on 7/16/2015 by Bill_Graham]
Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis both wrote after the Civil war that the confederate flag should be taken down & put away... It was brought back in the 60's by those wishing to spread hate & fight against civil rights for all...
Wearly89 this is the same kind of crap you used to start over on Dickey's site years ago... please crawl back under your flag draped rock...
And try to be as nice as you, right?
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
This is what is so frustrating with this type of thinking. It's so naive. People believe (again, because it makes them feel good) that there was a magical line of altruism. All Americans above that line loved man and decided to give their lives to free slaves. But for some reason they had riots a hundred years later. Guess the magical line lost it's power.
Do some independent reading (not government mandated). Look at the timeline when Lincoln started talking up emancipation. Why didn't he free northern slaves before the war? Why did he jail journalists without trial? The Emancipation Proclamation proposed freeing slaves ONLY in another country.
Regarding not wanting to pay them to work vs. slavery, you do realize this was 150 years ago? You might as well ask why didn't they sanitize their surgical tools! Slavery was common place in that day and age and had been through out human history! They also slaughtered Indians. Do you know who built our railroads? How about the internment camps of WWII? Why don't people get mad at other country's history of slavery? Lot's of peoples have been enslaved. Atrocities have always and continue to happen, but for some reason it's only the American South and African- Americans that continue and constantly get attention.
So what is your point? slavery was o.k. because of the other bad things that happened to other groups of people and this means the atrocity of slavery is being blown out of proportion? Not trying to be a pr*ck but I am not following your logic here.
[Edited on 7/16/2015 by Bill_Graham]
No, that slavery was one of many things that we TODAY consider wrong. Today we know better, they didn't. Just like blood letting with leeches. It seems completely stupid today. Not allowing women to work, vote, or speak their minds. Killing Indians. All kinds of things in the past are ridiculous in the present. Yet, people look at the South and say, they are evil. My point: it was just how life was at the time. Hell, 10 years ago you wouldn't have Caitlyn (sp?) Jenner winning the Author Ash award. We progress. Quit beating up one group of people for something the whole world did.
We had Chinese slaves build the railroads. Why no outrage? There still hasn't been an Asian President. Or an Asian QB in the NFL. Or first Irish this, or first Indian that.
What we do have is the same old divisive argument about one symbol when really we should have been talking about gun violence. The guy that shot up the church is not a racist. He's a nut. Just like Sandy Hook. Let's keep our eye on the ball.
The civil war ended 250 years ago. The north won, the south LOST. get over it.
i would love to get over it. I'll forget all the murder, rape, and pillage. Just stop kicking me in the balls.
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
This is what is so frustrating with this type of thinking. It's so naive. People believe (again, because it makes them feel good) that there was a magical line of altruism. All Americans above that line loved man and decided to give their lives to free slaves. But for some reason they had riots a hundred years later. Guess the magical line lost it's power.
Do some independent reading (not government mandated). Look at the timeline when Lincoln started talking up emancipation. Why didn't he free northern slaves before the war? Why did he jail journalists without trial? The Emancipation Proclamation proposed freeing slaves ONLY in another country.
Regarding not wanting to pay them to work vs. slavery, you do realize this was 150 years ago? You might as well ask why didn't they sanitize their surgical tools! Slavery was common place in that day and age and had been through out human history! They also slaughtered Indians. Do you know who built our railroads? How about the internment camps of WWII? Why don't people get mad at other country's history of slavery? Lot's of peoples have been enslaved. Atrocities have always and continue to happen, but for some reason it's only the American South and African- Americans that continue and constantly get attention.
So what is your point? slavery was o.k. because of the other bad things that happened to other groups of people and this means the atrocity of slavery is being blown out of proportion? Not trying to be a pr*ck but I am not following your logic here.
[Edited on 7/16/2015 by Bill_Graham]
No, that slavery was one of many things that we TODAY consider wrong. Today we know better, they didn't. Just like blood letting with leeches. It seems completely stupid today. Not allowing women to work, vote, or speak their minds. Killing Indians. All kinds of things in the past are ridiculous in the present. Yet, people look at the South and say, they are evil. My point: it was just how life was at the time. Hell, 10 years ago you wouldn't have Caitlyn (sp?) Jenner winning the Author Ash award. We progress. Quit beating up one group of people for something the whole world did.
We had Chinese slaves build the railroads. Why no outrage? There still hasn't been an Asian President. Or an Asian QB in the NFL. Or first Irish this, or first Indian that.
What we do have is the same old divisive argument about one symbol when really we should have been talking about gun violence. The guy that shot up the church is not a racist. He's a nut. Just like Sandy Hook. Let's keep our eye on the ball.
Come on man you seem plugged into the topic so you must see the reason we are even talking about the flag and slavery because of the tragic church killing and the fact that the person who did it was a racist who used the Confederate battle flag as a backdrop for his hate.
Of course there were other injustices in America and around the world that were equally appalling but this issue has been to the forefront because of the shootings.
Not everybody thinks Southerners are ignorant racists but the #1 thing the flag symbolizes to many people is slavery and racism even though this is not how all southerners view it.
As a result anyone who embraces and celebrates the flag and the Confederacy, will for better or worse, be viewed as possible racist. Maybe it is not fair but it is what it is IMHO
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
This is what is so frustrating with this type of thinking. It's so naive. People believe (again, because it makes them feel good) that there was a magical line of altruism. All Americans above that line loved man and decided to give their lives to free slaves. But for some reason they had riots a hundred years later. Guess the magical line lost it's power.
Do some independent reading (not government mandated). Look at the timeline when Lincoln started talking up emancipation. Why didn't he free northern slaves before the war? Why did he jail journalists without trial? The Emancipation Proclamation proposed freeing slaves ONLY in another country.
Regarding not wanting to pay them to work vs. slavery, you do realize this was 150 years ago? You might as well ask why didn't they sanitize their surgical tools! Slavery was common place in that day and age and had been through out human history! They also slaughtered Indians. Do you know who built our railroads? How about the internment camps of WWII? Why don't people get mad at other country's history of slavery? Lot's of peoples have been enslaved. Atrocities have always and continue to happen, but for some reason it's only the American South and African- Americans that continue and constantly get attention.
So what is your point? slavery was o.k. because of the other bad things that happened to other groups of people and this means the atrocity of slavery is being blown out of proportion? Not trying to be a pr*ck but I am not following your logic here.
[Edited on 7/16/2015 by Bill_Graham]
No, that slavery was one of many things that we TODAY consider wrong. Today we know better, they didn't. Just like blood letting with leeches. It seems completely stupid today. Not allowing women to work, vote, or speak their minds. Killing Indians. All kinds of things in the past are ridiculous in the present. Yet, people look at the South and say, they are evil. My point: it was just how life was at the time. Hell, 10 years ago you wouldn't have Caitlyn (sp?) Jenner winning the Author Ash award. We progress. Quit beating up one group of people for something the whole world did.
We had Chinese slaves build the railroads. Why no outrage? There still hasn't been an Asian President. Or an Asian QB in the NFL. Or first Irish this, or first Indian that.
What we do have is the same old divisive argument about one symbol when really we should have been talking about gun violence. The guy that shot up the church is not a racist. He's a nut. Just like Sandy Hook. Let's keep our eye on the ball.
Come on man you seem plugged into the topic so you must see the reason we are even talking about the flag and slavery because of the tragic church killing and the fact that the person who did it was a racist who used the Confederate battle flag as a backdrop for his hate.
Of course there were other injustices in America and around the world that were equally appalling but this issue has been to the forefront because of the shootings.
Not everybody thinks Southerners are ignorant racists but the #1 thing the flag symbolizes to many people is slavery and racism even though this is not how all southerners view it.
As a result anyone who embraces and celebrates the flag and the Confederacy, will for better or worse, be viewed as possible racist. Maybe it is not fair but it is what it is IMHO
Yeah, i know. But i see no benefit of dubbing him a racist and stirring up the country. What he is is a psychopathic nut job! Same as all the other shooting that unfortunately happen every few months. He didn't kill because he was racist. i'm sure there are lots of closet (or not) racist around that aren't killing. Jeffery Dahlmer hated gay people i think it was, or some such. They are crazy. Their crazy minds lock on to something (like black people in this case) but make no mistake they are nuts. Instead of acting like everybody is offended by a flag (where was all this talk before?) let's talk about early identification of mentally ill, people with the potential for violence, let's talk about gun access, etc.
Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question
It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....
It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery
This is what is so frustrating with this type of thinking. It's so naive. People believe (again, because it makes them feel good) that there was a magical line of altruism. All Americans above that line loved man and decided to give their lives to free slaves. But for some reason they had riots a hundred years later. Guess the magical line lost it's power.
Do some independent reading (not government mandated). Look at the timeline when Lincoln started talking up emancipation. Why didn't he free northern slaves before the war? Why did he jail journalists without trial? The Emancipation Proclamation proposed freeing slaves ONLY in another country.
Regarding not wanting to pay them to work vs. slavery, you do realize this was 150 years ago? You might as well ask why didn't they sanitize their surgical tools! Slavery was common place in that day and age and had been through out human history! They also slaughtered Indians. Do you know who built our railroads? How about the internment camps of WWII? Why don't people get mad at other country's history of slavery? Lot's of peoples have been enslaved. Atrocities have always and continue to happen, but for some reason it's only the American South and African- Americans that continue and constantly get attention.
So what is your point? slavery was o.k. because of the other bad things that happened to other groups of people and this means the atrocity of slavery is being blown out of proportion? Not trying to be a pr*ck but I am not following your logic here.
[Edited on 7/16/2015 by Bill_Graham]
No, that slavery was one of many things that we TODAY consider wrong. Today we know better, they didn't. Just like blood letting with leeches. It seems completely stupid today. Not allowing women to work, vote, or speak their minds. Killing Indians. All kinds of things in the past are ridiculous in the present. Yet, people look at the South and say, they are evil. My point: it was just how life was at the time. Hell, 10 years ago you wouldn't have Caitlyn (sp?) Jenner winning the Author Ash award. We progress. Quit beating up one group of people for something the whole world did.
We had Chinese slaves build the railroads. Why no outrage? There still hasn't been an Asian President. Or an Asian QB in the NFL. Or first Irish this, or first Indian that.
What we do have is the same old divisive argument about one symbol when really we should have been talking about gun violence. The guy that shot up the church is not a racist. He's a nut. Just like Sandy Hook. Let's keep our eye on the ball.
Come on man you seem plugged into the topic so you must see the reason we are even talking about the flag and slavery because of the tragic church killing and the fact that the person who did it was a racist who used the Confederate battle flag as a backdrop for his hate.
Of course there were other injustices in America and around the world that were equally appalling but this issue has been to the forefront because of the shootings.
Not everybody thinks Southerners are ignorant racists but the #1 thing the flag symbolizes to many people is slavery and racism even though this is not how all southerners view it.
As a result anyone who embraces and celebrates the flag and the Confederacy, will for better or worse, be viewed as possible racist. Maybe it is not fair but it is what it is IMHO
Yeah, i know. But i see no benefit of dubbing him a racist and stirring up the country. What he is is a psychopathic nut job! Same as all the other shooting that unfortunately happen every few months. He didn't kill because he was racist. i'm sure there are lots of closet (or not) racist around that aren't killing. Jeffery Dahlmer hated gay people i think it was, or some such. They are crazy. Their crazy minds lock on to something (like black people in this case) but make no mistake they are nuts. Instead of acting like everybody is offended by a flag (where was all this talk before?) let's talk about early identification of mentally ill, people with the potential for violence, let's talk about gun access, etc.
You are on a slippery slope I am afraid. When people kill they must be psychopaths? Or people that kill over X number of victims? Or kill in a certain spectacularly violent manner? Or? This church killer is automatically crazy? and not racist, or at least we must not call him that because alleged crazy trumps racism? Clinically insane is different than a raging political militant, or racial militant. It is beyond armchair analysis of news stories. And sorry, the country IS stirred up. what I will say is the unbelievably opinionated and biased and sensationalistic "news" we have in USA is generally such manipulative garbage that what you say is indeed happening. News stories plying on racist slant, and looking for every potential of it, that try to inflame the peoples, so that in fact they are manipulating the news itself, by outrage triggering action.
what I will say is the unbelievably opinionated and biased and sensationalistic "news" we have in USA is generally such manipulative garbage that what you say is indeed happening. News stories plying on racist slant, and looking for every potential of it, that try to inflame the peoples, so that in fact they are manipulating the news itself, by outrage triggering action.
Bingo...
The civil war ended 250 years ago. The north won, the south LOST. get over it.
Your math skills need work....lots of work
SC Local Klan will hold a rally today because they want to preserve the "White Heritage" of the south
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/confederate-flag-rally-tests-diminished-ku-klux-klan
SC Local Klan will hold a rally today because they want to preserve the "White Heritage" of the south
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/confederate-flag-rally-tests-diminished-ku-klux- klan
----------------------------------/
I guess Weary and slakfish will be busy ... 😛 Just kidding!
