You can display all those things Wearly.

Do you have any citation that shows the holocaust was caused by political correctness? I've never heard that. I'd certainly like to see the literature if it exists.

Start with "The Road To Serfdom" by Friedrich von Hayek.

I also googled "political correctness in Nazi Germany" and several references popped up. This is an article I just read which explains the process fairly briefly but clearly and thoroughly... http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/

And here is a 3 hour documentary film - The Rise of the Third Reich. I'm going to to watch the first two parts tonight.

Hope you're serious about wanting the information

So the removal of the Stars and Bars from in front of a statehouse is gonna lead to a rise of Nazi-like forces in America?

Hmmmmmm.

The swastika and all Nazi imagery is strictly banned in Germany. Shouldn't the Nazis have risen again because of it? 😉

No, I didn't say that but are you really so obtuse that you don't think that political correctness is not on the march in this country?

This ‘Yankee’ understands what you initially were expressing in your first posts. They were well presented.

Slavery was/is horrible and a pox on HUMAN history, but also was not the ‘cause’ of the civil war as much as the lynch pin catalyst. Slavery is also unfortunately very much still in existence in the world.

That was a fine article on political correctness or as a commentor said “Ideological Obedience”. There is a fine group of people here, many with opposing social views. I wouldn’t expend too much energy trying to convince anyone though. All of liberal ideology is based on emotion vs intellect. Powers use it to beat people into submission all the while saying they are responding to people’s cry for freedom. Yet each law passed to ‘fix’ the human condition is just another brick in the prison we reside in or another moment in the pot for the frog that doesn’t realize the water is coming to a boil. It is many people’s religion, and attempts replace the truth that Jesus is the only ‘fix’. It is a way of assuaging the guilt complex that has been indoctrinated into them by the media and schools. All people are created by God and no race is inferior, or more or less worthwhile than another. And no race has cornered the market on good or bad behavior.

This ‘Yankee’ understands what you initially were expressing in your first posts. They were well presented.

Slavery was/is horrible and a pox on HUMAN history, but also was not the ‘cause’ of the civil war as much as the lynch pin catalyst. Slavery is also unfortunately very much still in existence in the world.

That was a fine article on political correctness or as a commentor said “Ideological Obedience”. There is a fine group of people here, many with opposing social views. I wouldn’t expend too much energy trying to convince anyone though. All of liberal ideology is based on emotion vs intellect. Powers use it to beat people into submission all the while saying they are responding to people’s cry for freedom. Yet each law passed to ‘fix’ the human condition is just another brick in the prison we reside in or another moment in the pot for the frog that doesn’t realize the water is coming to a boil. It is many people’s religion, and attempts replace the truth that Jesus is the only ‘fix’. It is a way of assuaging the guilt complex that has been indoctrinated into them by the media and schools. All people are created by God and no race is inferior, or more or less worthwhile than another. And no race has cornered the market on good or bad behavior.

Great post.

Some views from the Civil War era of the meaning of the Confederate flags, as the flag went through changes:

The original Stars and Bars was disliked because it looked too much like the Union flag:

William T. Thompson, the editor of the Savannah-based Daily Morning News objected to the [Stars and Bars] flag, stating in April 1863 that he was opposed to it "on account of its resemblance to that of the abolition despotism against which we are fighting."

On the "Stainless" flag, mostly a white flag, not adopted because it would look too much like surrender:

W.T. Thompson, the flag's designer, referred to his design as "The White Man's Flag". In referring to the white field that comprised a large part of the flag's design elements, Thompson stated that its color symbolized the "supremacy of the white man":

As a people we are fighting maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.

—William T. Thompson (April 23, 1863), Daily Morning News

As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals.

—William T. Thompson (May 4, 1863), Daily Morning News

General William Bagby saw the blue cross on the battle flag as a "Southern Cross"

"the destiny of the Southern master and his African slave", pointing them southward to "the banks of the Amazon", expressing the desire many Confederates held of expanding slavery southward into Latin America."

SO STOP TRYING TO FEED US YOUR "CIVIL WAR WASN'T ABOUT SLAVERY" BS ! ! !

‘You Don’t Need a Symbol to Be Proud of Who You Are’

That's right, Warren, you don't...

This ‘Yankee’ understands what you initially were expressing in your first posts. They were well presented.

Slavery was/is horrible and a pox on HUMAN history, but also was not the ‘cause’ of the civil war as much as the lynch pin catalyst. Slavery is also unfortunately very much still in existence in the world.

That was a fine article on political correctness or as a commentor said “Ideological Obedience”. There is a fine group of people here, many with opposing social views. I wouldn’t expend too much energy trying to convince anyone though. All of liberal ideology is based on emotion vs intellect. Powers use it to beat people into submission all the while saying they are responding to people’s cry for freedom. Yet each law passed to ‘fix’ the human condition is just another brick in the prison we reside in or another moment in the pot for the frog that doesn’t realize the water is coming to a boil. It is many people’s religion, and attempts replace the truth that Jesus is the only ‘fix’. It is a way of assuaging the guilt complex that has been indoctrinated into them by the media and schools. All people are created by God and no race is inferior, or more or less worthwhile than another. And no race has cornered the market on good or bad behavior.

Great post.

Agreed!

This ‘Yankee’ understands what you initially were expressing in your first posts. They were well presented.

Slavery was/is horrible and a pox on HUMAN history, but also was not the ‘cause’ of the civil war as much as the lynch pin catalyst. Slavery is also unfortunately very much still in existence in the world.

That was a fine article on political correctness or as a commentor said “Ideological Obedience”. There is a fine group of people here, many with opposing social views. I wouldn’t expend too much energy trying to convince anyone though. All of liberal ideology is based on emotion vs intellect. Powers use it to beat people into submission all the while saying they are responding to people’s cry for freedom. Yet each law passed to ‘fix’ the human condition is just another brick in the prison we reside in or another moment in the pot for the frog that doesn’t realize the water is coming to a boil. It is many people’s religion, and attempts replace the truth that Jesus is the only ‘fix’. It is a way of assuaging the guilt complex that has been indoctrinated into them by the media and schools. All people are created by God and no race is inferior, or more or less worthwhile than another. And no race has cornered the market on good or bad behavior.

Thank you very much and I greatly admire your efficiency with language.

I don't believe people will be barred from flying the Confederate flag on their own pwrsonal flagpoles.

"Barred"?.....Last I checked, this was still a free country.

F%$k political correctness

How far will the liberal agenda go?
Apparently it's not enough to blame hatred on a piece of cloth.

It was red necked, right wing, racists who assigned hatred to a piece of cloth. Don't put the cart in front of the horse. You won't get too far.

It was Republicans who freed the slaves and the Democratic states of the South that kept that banner flying.

I agree with Warren. You don't need a symbol.

Explain the Stars and Stripes

I'm from the south and have lived here all my life, but I just don't understand why the confederate flag is such a big deal to some people down here. I'll admit my ignorance as to why there is so much pride in that flag. It's something that I'll likely never understand.

I respectfully disagree with the notion that flag represents our region better than any other symbol. To many even in the south it represents a region that never moved on or moved forward.

I will say all of the people trying to ban the flag has cause the exact opposite reaction than what they wanted by people who are supporters. Now you can't drive to the store without seeing it flying in someone's yard or on a car. Sometimes you can see a brand new flag that has possibly the same value as the car it is flying on.

I do grow tired of the phrase "heritage not hate". I know for some it is accurate and that's fine, but for some it is a crutch that they have leaned on for generations to justify waiving it in the face of those who are offended by it. A big part of the heritage of that flag seems to be built in the hatred of those who opposed the civil rights movement.

However to tie it back to music, I also don't care for what most call southern rock which that flag seems to be the banner most associated with that genre.

Check out Hootie & The Blowfish's song "Drowning" from Cracked Rear View. They were singing about the flag by the capital in SC 20 years ago.

[Edited on 7/9/2015 by WarEagleRK]

I agree with most of what you say and I've never been interested in offending anyone so, while I hate to see the flag summarily cast usunder and degraded by so many people, I'm glad my State removed the flag from the Confederate Memorial on our Statehouse grounds.

I've got to add that the vituperative, hateful and intolerant comments which completely disregarded the content of my initial post are/were equal to the hate and intolerance exhibited by the white supremacists and klansmen whom they find so reprehensible. All I said was why I like the flag, that I oppose political correctness and intolerance, and that I wanted my State to be able to deal with the issue without outside interference.

For that there were some people who implied that I was a racist, a hate monger, or they tried to turn it into a debate on the meaning of the flag. There are many people who feel as you do, many who feel as I do, and a relatively small number of people who have co-opted the flag as a downright evil symbol. Are all Muslims to be tainted simply because there is a fraction of Muslims Jihadists? In the world of political correctness, not no - it's HELL NO. But in the world of the Confederate flag, it's ok.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for not doing any of that.

[Edited on 7/13/2015 by wearly89]

Regarding your diatribe I call BS. South Carolina would not have done crap without "outside agitators."

Funny but the phrase "outside agitators" was the term then Alabama Governor George Wallace and the other racists used in the movie Selma I watched last night.

If it were not for "outside agitators" putting a spotlight on Alabama making it impossible for blacks to register to vote back in the mid 60's who knows if the "Civil Rights Act of 1964" would ever been passed.

It was "outside agitators' like MLK who forced Lyndon Johnson to stop dragging his feet to act and ram that bill through Congress.

[Edited on 7/9/2015 by Bill_Graham]

What's even funnier - though not to me on the receiving end - is that "outside agitators" does not appear in my post. I was misquoted initially, and then again by you. However, if the preponderance of people in my State wanted the flag to remain where it was and our Legislature voted for it, would it not be our right to have it there? I say it's nobody else's business. Nevertheless, they voted to remove it and I support the decision.

I don't give two craps what the flag means to you. I don't care if you fly it, frame it, paint it on the hood of your car, or shove it up your butt.

Hey Billy Blab Off, how about if I shove the flag up your butt, you giant gaping rectal crevice?

[Edited on 7/13/2015 by wearly89]

Regarding your diatribe I call BS. South Carolina would not have done crap without "outside agitators."

Funny but the phrase "outside agitators" was the term then Alabama Governor George Wallace and the other racists used in the movie Selma I watched last night.
7
If it were not for "outside agitators" putting a spotlight on Alabama making it impossible for blacks to register to vote back in the mid 60's who knows if the "Civil Rights Act of 1964" would ever been passed.

It was "outside agitators' like MLK who forced Lyndon Johnson to stop dragging his feet to act and ram that bill through Congress.

[Edited on 7/9/2015 by Bill_Graham]

What's even funnier - though not to me on the receiving end - is that "outside agitators" does not appear in my post. I was misquoted initially, and then again by you. However, if the preponderance of people in my State wanted the flag to remain where it was and our Legislature voted for it, would it not be our right to have it there? I say it's nobody else's business. Nevertheless, they voted to remove it and I support the decision.

But wearly I think you misunderstand as I never quoted you as I was responding to another posters use of the term "outside agitators". I never inferred you said this.

As I stated in another post I think individuals should have the right to fly the flag for their own reasons. I don't think it should be flown over public buildings but that is a local decision as you said.

So the removal of the Stars and Bars from in front of a statehouse

They did not remove the "Stars and Bars".....they took down the battle flag, entirely different banner.

Apologies for the mistake!

You can display all those things Wearly.

Do you have any citation that shows the holocaust was caused by political correctness? I've never heard that. I'd certainly like to see the literature if it exists.

Start with "The Road To Serfdom" by Friedrich von Hayek.

I also googled "political correctness in Nazi Germany" and several references popped up. This is an article I just read which explains the process fairly briefly but clearly and thoroughly... http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/

And here is a 3 hour documentary film - The Rise of the Third Reich. I'm going to to watch the first two parts tonight.

Hope you're serious about wanting the information

So the removal of the Stars and Bars from in front of a statehouse is gonna lead to a rise of Nazi-like forces in America?

Hmmmmmm.

The swastika and all Nazi imagery is strictly banned in Germany. Shouldn't the Nazis have risen again because of it? 😉

No, I didn't say that but are you really so obtuse that you don't think that political correctness is not on the march in this country?

I think that people increasingly being angry a-holes to each other is on the march in this country.

"Political correctness" is extremely loosely defined, always has been.

quote:

I don't give two craps what the flag means to you. I don't care if you fly it, frame it, paint it on the hood of your car, or shove it up your butt.

Hey Billy Blab Off, how about if I shove the flag up your butt, you giant gaping rectal crevice?

[Edited on 7/13/2015 by wearly89]

Again. Nice post.

You want to be tolerated?

For all that love exhibited in South Carolina one vile, putrid, pile of pig excrement embraces the stereotype.

quote:

I don't give two craps what the flag means to you. I don't care if you fly it, frame it, paint it on the hood of your car, or shove it up your butt.

Hey Billy Blab Off, how about if I shove the flag up your butt, you giant gaping rectal crevice?

[Edited on 7/13/2015 by wearly89]

Again. Nice post.

You want to be tolerated?

For all that love exhibited in South Carolina one vile, putrid, pile of pig excrement embraces the stereotype.

Yeah, I was giving back some of that "love" you sent my way. Sounds to me like the culture around you is much less refined than here in the Palmetto State. Do me a favor and stay there. We've had way too many jerks like you to move here already. Guess they don't necessarily agree with your assessment of this place.

I have been wondering about something in the last week. I live in the south and there have been a lot of confederate flag rally's by "southerners" saying it's not about race. As hard as I look, I never seem to see any African Americans southerners in any of these rally's?
If it's about "southern" pride, why is that?

I have been wondering about something in the last week. I live in the south and there have been a lot of confederate flag rally's by "southerners" saying it's not about race. As hard as I look, I never seem to see any African Americans southerners in any of these rally's?
If it's about "southern" pride, why is that?

It is about WHITE southern pride. There may be a rare black that has a flag and displays, who knows.

The thing is: It is KNOWN that the flag causes bad feelings with many / most blacks. It is KNOWN due the framework of slave history (not that long ago), that it is displayed by SOME whites as a sign of racism (fact).

I see these times as being pretty close to the civil rights times of the 60's. We are closer to riots than we have been in years. The next unarmed black killed by an officer (right or wrong) can be the tipping point of parts of a city burning. They are that fed up. So to CHOOSE displaying a flag that KNOWINGLY hurts, offends, and may cause issues, is pretty selfish. I am glad your personal issues are larger than social conscience, it is indeed your choice.

Also Wearly, here is a teaching: You once started out talking calmly, and like I sensed, were a coiled spring waiting for rhetorical jousting. You do know most news sources on line have political blogs under stories? You want to joust with people in a forum who are exactly passionate about this topic there are excellent venues. Going to a music forum with this kind of agenda is like me coming here to discuss vintage Pontiacs. I mean duh! But back to the teaching: Once you started the juvenile name stuff, most folk quit hearing anything you say. You neutered yourself. Took the wind out of your own sails. You are now a hothead name calling out of control antagonist, whose words are like cottonwood fluff floating away in the breeze..... but worth less.....

I see these times as being pretty close to the civil rights times of the 60's. We are closer to riots than we have been in years.

Seems to me local police departments would wanna' see if there is any surplus military equipment available to "protect" the citizens with just in case that does happen.
Oh, wait a minute....

The thing is: It is KNOWN that the flag causes bad feelings with many

Oh the horror! There’s those hurt feelings again!

Bird72 - Sorry for the sarcasm but please step back from the emotion and critically think about what you just said. Maybe it’s time that people just acted like adults and quit waiting to be offended and manipulated by the system. How many liberties are you personally willing to give up to make sure no segment of society ever gets their precious feelings hurt?!

No more God, no Allah, no meat, no petroleum, no authentic history, no football, no rock music ….At what point does it end?

Seriously, the jerk with the swastika tattoo on his neck waiving a flag and being obnoxious is saying a lot more about himself than about any other group of people. Laugh it off.

The thing is: It is KNOWN that the flag causes bad feelings with many

Oh the horror! There’s those hurt feelings again!

Bird72 - Sorry for the sarcasm but please step back from the emotion and critically think about what you just said. Maybe it’s time that people just acted like adults and quit waiting to be offended and manipulated by the system. How many liberties are you personally willing to give up to make sure no segment of society ever gets their precious feelings hurt?!

No more God, no Allah, no meat, no petroleum, no authentic history, no football, no rock music ….At what point does it end?

Seriously, the jerk with the swastika tattoo on his neck waiving a flag and being obnoxious is saying a lot more about himself than about any other group of people. Laugh it off.

Nice!

Regarding your diatribe I call BS. South Carolina would not have done crap without "outside agitators."

Funny but the phrase "outside agitators" was the term then Alabama Governor George Wallace and the other racists used in the movie Selma I watched last night.
7
If it were not for "outside agitators" putting a spotlight on Alabama making it impossible for blacks to register to vote back in the mid 60's who knows if the "Civil Rights Act of 1964" would ever been passed.

It was "outside agitators' like MLK who forced Lyndon Johnson to stop dragging his feet to act and ram that bill through Congress.

[Edited on 7/9/2015 by Bill_Graham]

What's even funnier - though not to me on the receiving end - is that "outside agitators" does not appear in my post. I was misquoted initially, and then again by you. However, if the preponderance of people in my State wanted the flag to remain where it was and our Legislature voted for it, would it not be our right to have it there? I say it's nobody else's business. Nevertheless, they voted to remove it and I support the decision.

But wearly I think you misunderstand as I never quoted you as I was responding to another posters use of the term "outside agitators". I never inferred you said this.

As I stated in another post I think individuals should have the right to fly the flag for their own reasons. I don't think it should be flown over public buildings but that is a local decision as you said.

My apologies to you, sir.

I have been wondering about something in the last week. I live in the south and there have been a lot of confederate flag rally's by "southerners" saying it's not about race. As hard as I look, I never seem to see any African Americans southerners in any of these rally's?
If it's about "southern" pride, why is that?

It is about WHITE southern pride. There may be a rare black that has a flag and displays, who knows.

The thing is: It is KNOWN that the flag causes bad feelings with many / most blacks. It is KNOWN due the framework of slave history (not that long ago), that it is displayed by SOME whites as a sign of racism (fact).

I see these times as being pretty close to the civil rights times of the 60's. We are closer to riots than we have been in years. The next unarmed black killed by an officer (right or wrong) can be the tipping point of parts of a city burning. They are that fed up. So to CHOOSE displaying a flag that KNOWINGLY hurts, offends, and may cause issues, is pretty selfish. I am glad your personal issues are larger than social conscience, it is indeed your choice.

Also Wearly, here is a teaching: You once started out talking calmly, and like I sensed, were a coiled spring waiting for rhetorical jousting. You do know most news sources on line have political blogs under stories? You want to joust with people in a forum who are exactly passionate about this topic there are excellent venues. Going to a music forum with this kind of agenda is like me coming here to discuss vintage Pontiacs. I mean duh! But back to the teaching: Once you started the juvenile name stuff, most folk quit hearing anything you say. You neutered yourself. Took the wind out of your own sails. You are now a hothead name calling out of control antagonist, whose words are like cottonwood fluff floating away in the breeze..... but worth less.....

Tony, why don't you criticize the posters who provoked my caustic responses? Could it be simply that you agree with them and not me? I wasn't the first to get nasty. Could it be that you are just another of the giant gaping rectal crevices around here? I'll have a civil discussion with anyone but if you want to go the other way I'll meet you there, too.

There are many African Americans down here who might not actually like the flag as I do, but they don't have a problem with it like you and other ignorant intolerant people who refuse to accept that it means anything other than abject hatred. I think you are the type person who thinks of himself as tolerant, open minded, and accessible, but in this issue, you are not.

You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.

You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.

Does it simply escape you that all of those are ways of holding on to a culture that was supported by slavery....the battle flag is a flag of treason...the fight was about preserving slavery because I guess giving them a wage and allowing them to pick and choose where they wish to live was simply out of the question

It seems you don't see that the culture you want to hold on to was a culture supported by slaves. That all the singing and flag waving is about holding on to a culture that was supported by slaves....

It seems people want to talk about the culture without exploring what it really was....They kidnapped people brought them here and treated them like stock...when the Federal government said that is not what this country is about the south didn't want to give up slavery...end of subject...The flag and all the culture behind it was/is about preserving slavery

You should understand that growing up as I did in Charleston, SC, the flag was freely flown all over the city and throughout the South without really any controversy I can recall. It was just something which everyone pretty much embraced as part of living in the South. At The Citadel, it was flown on campus, Dixie was sung before every home basketball game and played at every halftime show in football. It was part of our way of life. It's hard to see people who know nothing about it calling it a hateful symbol when it's the farthest thing from that to me. Maybe you should think about that and have a little bit of empathy if that is possible for someone as evidently narrow minded as yourself. It's hard to give it up especially when I know in my heart and soul it is merely being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - a tool to silence a point of view and erase a history and a culture.

Two points:

1. No one is outlawing the Confederate Flag in the State of South Carolina, nor in any other State.

2. The specific flag taken down in South Carolina was initially raised as a symbol of hate and racism. It was a giant FU to the Civil Rights Act.

You keep missing that point Wearly. As I, and several others have stated, we don't care if you fly the flag.

Right here, North of Fredericksburg, there is a move afoot to change the name of Jefferson Davis Highway. I find this a ridiculous reaction. That said, I do not have to show tolerance to people displaying the Confederate Flag as a symbol of White Supremacy, racism or hate.

The flag in South Carolina was hoisted as a symbol of all those things.

Citadel: Est 1842. First black American graduate: Charles D. Foster in 1970. 138 years.
Just sayin'....

(sigh) the topic that frustrates me more than any other (even religion)...

You can't use today's moral values to judge history. Slavery was a normal occurrence in yesterday's world. Women couldn't vote, or work, or even wear pants. Black and white couldn't marry, Gay's were killed, witches were burned, etc. Tons of bad things that appall us today. It just was. That's it. These people weren't evil. No more than people for gay marriage or marijuana legalization are evil today. We evolve (thankfully for the better). The U.S.A was just one place of many where slavery was practiced. It ended everywhere else peacefully with the advent of better technologies. (incidentally the U.S.A. wasn't even the last place slavery was practiced.)

Second, the States were autonomous as the framers planned it. They voted to enter the Union (to get a leg up on Foreign policy and consolidate defense)thus becoming UNITED States. BUT they were still meant to be sovereign states! They had the right to vote to leave it. No matter what. i don't care if it was to kill the first born, they HAD the right. Lincoln, the Nazi, decided they didn't have the right. (Sorry posters, you're Nazi finger pointing at the wrong bunch) Jefferson Davis (among others) wanted to fight in the Supreme Court for this right but Lincoln decided to send in the army.

There are huge volumes of text JUST on the cause of separation. Not the battles, just separation. For one thing the rift between the North and South was there almost from the beginning. By 1861 this rift had been festering for much of our history! It is ignorantly boiled down to one word, "slavery" ,because most of us were educated at a public school where this cause was talked about for thirty minutes. The cliche "the victor writes the history books" is true. It is obviously imperative for the US to be "right" for the country to be "together" thus the "war to stamp out evil."

Here's the thing about that type thought...So, somehow everybody above the imaginary Mason-Dixon line evolved to be higher moral beings willing to sacrifice the lives of their husbands and sons (to the tune of 300,000+) to save the lives of black men? Honestly, would people be willing to do that today? Yes, we have made huge strides in equality but would we (would you?) lay down your life or you child's to achieve this? We have cops killing blacks TODAY!! Yet people believe white people would go to war to protect Africans in the 1860's?? Could it be that it makes you feel better? "Aww, my country fought to end that evil institution"

Another thing, Lincoln never freed the slaves in the country where he was actually President. The Emancipation Proclamation freed no one. It was directed at the South (for obvious political reasons) but by this time is was a separate country, The Confederate States of America, with it's own President, Vice President, Constitution, money, foreign ministers, etc. Thus Lincoln had no legal power over it at all, but it sure sounded nice. Oh yeah, he did this two years into the war.

The "cause" of the war is very complicated and would be boring to most people. Like i said, there's tons written about it. No other war is so simply described.

I have been wondering about something in the last week. I live in the south and there have been a lot of confederate flag rally's by "southerners" saying it's not about race. As hard as I look, I never seem to see any African Americans southerners in any of these rally's?
If it's about "southern" pride, why is that?

Because where African Americans are offended by the flag because the KKK adopted it in the 1960's, Southerners are offended because not only did a country invade their homes/farms pillaging, murdering, raping and burning causing over a century of poverty that can still be felt today, but that their (our) feelings regarding these atrocities are ALWAYS marginalized --even buried and forgotten. We are evil, insensitive, wrong, ignorant, racists who must be dragged through the mud for eternity it would seem.