So given the choice between arguing that Bon Jovi actually is an all-time great rock band to someone who only knows a couple of their hits and doesn't like them or arguing that I'm a snob, you picked the second one. Dude, I know I'm a snob. If you asked "are you a music snob," I've have said "sure" and given you better examples than this.
I did say I wouldn't vote for them personally because I dislike their music. That's a personal taste thing, which is why it's basically an aside in that post. It's not a thing you can argue about. I don't think people who like BJ have bad taste or are stupid or wrong.
The real argument I had is with your total certainty that it's insane to say they're not a Hall of Fame band. And they didn't get a lot of votes in this thread. There's probably not a ton of ABB-Bon Jovi fan overlap. My opinion is this: since Rock and Roll Hall of Fame membership is almost purely arbitrary, outside of a very small number of artists - 25? 50? Definitely not 300 - there are very few artists you can point to and say "they have to be in or this thing is a joke." Bon Jovi has achieved all kinds of success but they're not one of those bands. The only thing you've really said to argue that they belong is that they sold a lot of albums and concert tickets, which they definitely did. But lots of bands that have sold huge numbers of albums aren't in the hall or weren't sure things, and lots of artists in the hall hardly sold any records. Plus there are great artists who definitely didn't make rock music who are in there. So I don't think you can say "they sold a lot of albums and tickets" and let that be the whole argument.
When I said I didn't see them as an influential band I also acknowledged that I don't really listen to the kind of music they make, so maybe they're more influential than I'm personally aware of. I don't see them as influential on a scale of hard rock or metal bands like Metallica or Kiss or Aerosmith, for example, but maybe that's setting the bar too high.
Does anybody want to make an actual hall of fame case for Bon Jovi and not be totally offended I'm not already convinced they're all-timers?
Again you discuss them as if their accomplishments are average and that many bands have achieved that level of success. They are far from average.
Dismiss a planet full of people that love them and keep them releasing material and playing sold out shows after 35 years. Dismiss gigantic sales? Hell those are only people that liked it enough to buy it.
Spin it any way you want. You are debating a 400 career hitter and career Golden Glover getting in the HOF. You don't see the comparison then you have no idea of just how much this band achieved. You think they are average and many have accomplished what they have? When every other 'hair" band or "metal" disappeared - their tickets sales increased. Why? They are not average in any way. Songwriter HOF have it wrong too?
You think there are no clear cut automatics that should enter. Only a few since the 80s and U2 and Bon Jovi are two of them. Disagree which is obviously your right but it is like saying Kobe shouldn't get in because Jordan was better and influenced more people.
The level of success in undeniable and if a planet of people loving and buying your music and shows for 35 years doesn't get you entrance then what does?
I love these debates. Comical.
Delaney & Bonnie & Friends & Little Feat need to be inducted. The Hall is OK...but Jann Wenner is an ass for so many that are not included.
Again you discuss them as if their accomplishments are average and that many bands have achieved that level of success.
You're arguing against things I didn't say. This obviously touched a nerve with you for some reason, and I don't think that reason has much to do with me. With luck I'll remember to avoid talking to you in the future. I don't much enjoy having conversations like this and it's probably torture for people to read, assuming they don't just scroll past, rolling their eyes.
Wish you had that avoided me long ago. LOL
You have never enjoyed conversations like this as perhaps someone calls you out on your pompous, arrogant attitude and self-righteousness. Been done often over the years by many people and you always react the same. I have always enjoyed seeing it - you always just disappear when confronted by fact.
You never strike a nerve Marley and never will. You clearly proved your point. You don't like something - means it is no good. Regardless of obvious fact slapping you in the face. Never stopped you before and won't now.
Argue against your points? You didn't make any. Aside from letting us know that you don't like them and therefore they clearly are not deserving.
Don't worry about rolling eyes - people have been doing it for years and again it never stopped you before.
You felt the need to try and tell me how wrong I was - you have done it often over the years - failed again. Your intentions are always completely transparent.
Just for you.
You are right - one of the most successful acts in American Music History doesn't deserve the status. Clearly a logical viewpoint. They should put the unsuccessful ones in first.
What was I thinking? Now that I disregard any actual facts or reality, it is obvious. Thanks for setting me straight.
Imagine all those hits, sales, fans, Songwriter HOF status and all by a band that was trying to be "deliberately boring". Jon is a F'N Genius.
Wish you had that avoided me long ago. LOL
You have never enjoyed conversations like this as perhaps someone calls you out on your pompous, arrogant attitude and self-righteousness. Been done often over the years by many people and you always react the same. I have always enjoyed seeing it - you always just disappear when confronted by fact.
You never strike a nerve Marley and never will. You clearly proved your point. You don't like something - means it is no good. Regardless of obvious fact slapping you in the face. Never stopped you before and won't now.
Argue against your points? You didn't make any. Aside from letting us know that you don't like them and therefore they clearly are not deserving.
Don't worry about rolling eyes - people have been doing it for years and again it never stopped you before.
You felt the need to try and tell me how wrong I was - you have done it often over the years - failed again. Your intentions are always completely transparent.
Just for you.
You are right - one of the most successful acts in American Music History doesn't deserve the status. Clearly a logical viewpoint. They should put the unsuccessful ones in first.
What was I thinking? Now that I disregard any actual facts or reality, it is obvious. Thanks for setting me straight.
Imagine all those hits, sales, fans, Songwriter HOF status and all by a band that was trying to be "deliberately boring". Jon is a F'N Genius.
its ok. people seem to have issues with bon jovi. over on another forum bon jovi, and for who knows what reason huey lewis and the news, are getting trashed. one person said those 2 bands are so generic and would have struggled to make it as pub bands if ther were from australia . guess they don't know huey lewis paid his dues for about a decade in the bar circuit
Hall of Fame to me is like the Grammys - completely out of touch w/musicians and very in touch with money-makers.
I am no Bon Jovi fan but it ought to be pretty obvious that beyond any of our own personal tastes they are a 1st ballot RRHOF band and there is like zero chance they won't be inducted.
I am no Bon Jovi fan but it ought to be pretty obvious that beyond any of our own personal tastes they are a 1st ballot RRHOF band and there is like zero chance they won't be inducted.
You're probably right. They've sold lots of albums and the Hall loves its stars collaborating (oh man, Radiohead and Bon Jovi together would be hilarious), so they're very likely to get in. But if someone wants to give a little background on the importance or influence of this band to an admitted non-fan I actually would be interested to read it.
That's the best I can explain it,Marley...sometimes taste has no explanation beyond emotions.
I know how being a fan works. I'm asking about their influence or their place in music history.
I'm asking about their influence or their place in music history.
Their place in music history? One of the most successful American (or anywhere) bands of all time. That is what makes this debate rather comical. You don't have to like it to accept basic fact.
Influence? One of the most successful writing duos in music history. Huge selling band. Countless people going to show. As with every band/musician it inspires people to sing and/or play.
Ritchie Sambora smokes on guitar and can obviously write. You may not like the songs and think he is writing to bore people but millions upon millions disagree. Ask Al Paul about Ritchie's influence on the guitar magazine business and his influence. Cover stories, articles, songs transcribed and endorsement deals. Why? Because of his influence on guitar.
Cover bands across the globe play their songs. Why? Because millions of people want to hear them.
God Forbid that stats are brought up even though every single other HOF uses them. MLB Inducts minor leaguers and people with terrible stats into the HOF all the time. LOL It is so obvious. If you don't get it then maybe you never will.
Add in the fact that they are really nice guys who love all the classic rock that we do.
Richie Sambora (of Bon Jovi) - "Midnight Rider + Wanted Dead Or Alive" - 6-14-98
still no johnny winter, grand funk railroad or mountain. doh.
Or Little Feat!
From the rock and roll hall of fame website regarding eligibility:
Artists—a group encompassing performers, composers and/or musicians—become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first commercial recording. Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.
From the rock and roll hall of fame website regarding eligibility:
Artists—a group encompassing performers, composers and/or musicians—become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first commercial recording. Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.
Thanks for posting the actual guidelines.
Weasel-word is "unquestionable." As far as I know, there are no unquestionable standards of musical excellence. It's either subjective or money-making/chart-topping.
Supposedly Sister Rosetta Tharpe was an important influence on Chuck Berry.
She looks like the neighbor down the street. Until she starts playing and singing -- then she becomes a force of nature.
Crash course:
Sister Rosetta Tharpe 101:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sister+rosetta+tharpe
Play her loud!
Billastro
