I am reading the new Santana biography and am enjoying it very much. The bands' rise to popularity closely coincides to that of the Allmans, starting in 1968 and 69. Both became supremely popular in the early 70's. So it got me to wondering if they ever crossed paths, especially in the early days? Both bands loved to jam, and both toured relentlessly. Were they ever on the same bill? Love the thought of Duane, and Carlos trading licks!

I know that the addition of Neal Schon to Santana in 1970 was influenced by the dual guitar sound of the Allmans. Both bands had strong bass, strong organ and vocals ( love both Gregg and Greg's singing!), great percussion, strong bass. It would seem they had a lot in common; at least as much as with the Allmans and the Dead.

Post Duane, I am curious of any Santana/ Allman billings. Seems like Dickey and Carlos would have been interesting jamming partners. Warren seems to play with everyone. And I would think Derek would be a good foil for Carlos.

Any history on the overlap of these two bands would be appreciated!

There are some shows out there with the last version of the ABB playing with Carlos. July/August of 2012 I believe. I have several of them. It was pretty good.

Derek Trucks Band opened for Santana in 2008. I saw Derek sit in w/ Santana at Chastain in Atlanta that yr. Carlos introduced Derek as "the anoited one!"

http://www.relix.com/blogs/detail/derek-trucks-and-warren-haynes-with-santana-maggot-brain

I was lucky enough to catch this performance at Merriweather Post in 2012.

Check out the Derek Trucks Band with Carlos- some of the most intense guitar jamming I've ever seen:

If that doesn't blow your mind, then check out part two!

[Edited on 3/2/2015 by peachlovingman]

Here's one with Derek jamming with the Santana band on "Taboo/The Calling":

They were on the same bill at the MSG in 1986 and Carlos sat in on Key To The Highway (53.38):

I saw them together on the same bill in Hartford, CT on July 28th of 2012. Santana opened with a 2 hour set followed by a 2 hour set from the ABB. I got a ticket for $42 located center stage 3 rows from the rear in the pavillion. Easily the best bang for my musical buck out of all the shows I saw in 2012.

Neal Schon was just like Duane considered to be guitarist in Derek and the Dominos. Duane didn't want to leave the ABB and in Neal's case (beside the fact that he might have been reluctant to leave Santana) it had to do with his young age being an obstacle for touring abroad. (if remembered correctly).

Neal Schon was just like Duane considered to be guitarist in Derek and the Dominos. Duane didn't want to leave the ABB and in Neal's case (beside the fact that he might have been reluctant to leave Santana) it had to do with his young age being an obstacle for touring abroad. (if remembered correctly).

No disrespect to Neil, but I never understood him leaving Santana for Journey. Just seems like an odd switch of genres.

Loved his work with Bad English. I thought they were great.

Nice interview with Carlos, Derek & Warren:

Thanks so much for the feedback! it is always fun to revisit the music history while reading the great books that keep coming out on our musical heroes. I am hoping for books on Rory Gallagher and Alvin Lee sometime in the future. Will check out the you tubes referenced!

Re Neal leaving Santana, from what I read he and Greg Rolie hit it off really well. Both wanted to play more of the rock oriented music, while Carlos was going deeply into the Miles Davis John Coltrane well. So they left to form Journey. i do like the early Journey but missed the percussion of Chepito and Carabello. Happily they have joined the Gregg Rolie Band and play some great Santana influenced music. I also think Abraxas Pool is one the best Cd's out there for this style music and wish they had played together longer.

Thanks so much for the feedback! it is always fun to revisit the music history while reading the great books that keep coming out on our musical heroes. I am hoping for books on Rory Gallagher and Alvin Lee sometime in the future. Will check out the you tubes referenced!

Re Neal leaving Santana, from what I read he and Greg Rolie hit it off really well. Both wanted to play more of the rock oriented music, while Carlos was going deeply into the Miles Davis John Coltrane well. So they left to form Journey. i do like the early Journey but missed the percussion of Chepito and Carabello. Happily they have joined the Gregg Rolie Band and play some great Santana influenced music. I also think Abraxas Pool is one the best Cd's out there for this style music and wish they had played together longer.

me too!!!!!

Early Journey is pretty cool though I agree with the comment that it was missing a more robust percussion section. Then it went Top 40 and turned permanently into the canned arena rock / power ballad / Steve Perry show....

So whatever happened to Carlos getting the Abraxas lineup back together like he was talking about a couple years ago?

I would love to hear Carlos, Warren,Derek(ABB) do "Eyesight To The Blind" live.

The version from Claptons Crossroads II is stellar.

Those guys would tear it up!!!!!!!!!!

Glad to see this thread still drawing interest!

So I finished the Santana book and really enjoyed it. With all of the changes of personnel in the band it made me wonder if Carlos was hard to work with. I don't think so. I think he just wanted to play different styles of music at different points in his career. I enjoyed listening to his music through the book read. The first three Santana albums are classic. I appreciated his first album even more, and Abraxas is pretty close to perfection. It had taken me a while to enjoy three, but I love that one as well.

Then Carlos moved into his deep phase, and the next three albums reflected that. I have tried to get into Caravanserai, and tried doubly hard while reading the book, but it's still a reach for me. Haven't dipped into the other two.

Then he moved back into the mainstream. I enjoyed Lotus and Moonflower, although I find it so hard to hear someone other than Greg Rolie singing Black Magic Woman. I skipped around on his later music; really enjoyed his solo album Blues for Salvador ( his son, not the country, as I had thought.) I enjoyed Supernatural. In fact i saw him about this time. He played in Minneapoli at the Northrup, and Prince and Larry Graham joined him onstage. I so hoped for a guitar duel! But Prince was very deferential to Carlos ( I am not worthy kind of thing) But it was still great to see them onstage.

I still have lots more Carlos to listen to. I really liked the early 1968 Santana stuff. In fact, while waiting for the Allmans to take the stage at another show at the Northrup in Minneapolis, the warm up music included a live version of Treat. I had never heard it before and discovered it was from a recently issued 1968 Live at the Fillmore double CD.

He didn't mention his brother Jorge too much. But I had some Malo I had not listened to in years. What a great first album. Sauvecito was an overlooked gem. I need to open up Brothers. Too much music, not enough time!

Have not heard too much about this book but I would recommend it to others. it was long and deep, very worthwhile.

Then Carlos moved into his deep phase, and the next three albums reflected that. I have tried to get into Caravanserai, and tried doubly hard while reading the book, but it's still a reach for me. Haven't dipped into the other two.

You raise an interesting point but at least you are assessing this work in hindsight. At the time, it is a challenge to accommodate an artist's change in direction.

Do you outright reject it? Do you try to go with their change in direction, or hope that it is only a temporary phase?

I loved the first three Santana albums but Caravanserai was a challenge at the time. Parts of it I liked, parts I didn't. By then, I'd gotten into the ABB - Santana was one of my entry points into the ABB - and when the next Santana albums came out - Borboletta etc - they had lost me.

The same with Joni Mitchell. I was moderately interested in her work such as Ladies of the Canyon and Blue, then Court & Spark came out and I absolutely loved it. Then Hissing of Summer Lawns and Hejira - each great albums.

And having gotten into the ABB, I'd fallen out of love with them after Win, Lose or Draw.

But then Joni released Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus and a string of other albums which I tried to like but eventually gave up on. Our paths had come together for a brief period then separated again. No blame on me or the artists - it happens.

[Edited on 5/18/2015 by Shavian]

You are correct, Shavian. It is easier to look backwards now on Santana music and kind of observe a pattern than to experience it at the time. In fact, that is why initially Santana three was hard for me to enjoy. the Tower of Power horns were so different ( took me a while to adjust to horns on early Marshall Tucker too; witness Another True Love ). I really started to appreciate three about 15 years ago. It became my favorite, until this past year when Abraxas rose to the top again. But I confess to losing interest in Santana for decades!

I do plan to play all of his music and see how well I do with the deeper stuff. It was his passion at the time and I want to appreciate it. I have always enjoyed Mike Shrieve's drumming and he accompanied Carlos along the deep end.

I have seen the Gregg Rolie Band a few times and they seem more like the original Santana. Great percussion. And his organ work is very underrated in my opinion.

Right now I an delving into my BB King collection, as I suspect are many others. I cracked open Blues in Japan and really like it. Lots of horns again, which I now have learned to appreciate. Hummingbird is a forgotten gem, written by Leon Russell, who plays in the original version. Right now I am playing Blues in the Bayou.

Joni Mitchell is on my list to explore. I am a big Pat Metheny fan and know she toured with them as her back up band. Jimi Hendrix is another one. And Derek Trucks! I love his Allmans work but confess I have not found the key to unlock the door on his solo/ TTB material. But I know it is worth trying!

So much music, so little time!

Joni Mitchell is on my list to explore. I am a big Pat Metheny fan and know she toured with them as her back up band. Jimi Hendrix is another one. And Derek Trucks! I love his Allmans work but confess I have not found the key to unlock the door on his solo/ TTB material. But I know it is worth trying!

So much music, so little time!

Shadows And Light is a double live album where you will find not only Metheny and Lyle Mays in the backing band, but Jaco Pastorius and Michael Brecker too.

I kind of envy you having the joyous prospect of investigating Derek's solo and DTB work from scratch!

I am currently reading the "Live at the Fillmore East and West: Getting Backstage and Personal with Rock's Greatest Legends" book which focuses on the bands Jefferson Airplane, Janis Joplin and Big Holding and Santana (as Bill Graham was their early manager and mentor).

In the book it mentions that Neil Schon was hanging around Santana trying to get Carlos to hire him as a second guitar player when Clapton showed up and was so impressed with Schon he tried to hire him for Derek and the Dominoes. Neil was just a teenager at the time and did not want to move Great Britain. Carlos made him and offer to join Santana the next day and the rest is history.

Regarding the book it is organized chronologically and is basically a collection of anecdotes but if you have any interest in the Fillmore's and Bill Graham I highly recommend it.

As somebody who really, really loves Caravanserai, let me offer a suggestion to enhance your appreciation.

Next time, skip Eternal Caravan of Reincarnation and Future Primitive. Those are easily the most "out there" songs on the album. I've learned to skip them when my wife is in the room

The album is still pretty experimental without those two songs, but it sounds much more like classic Santana. If you like Santana at all, it's hard not to like tunes such as Song Of The Wind or La Fuente Del Ritmo or All The Love Of The Universe. Take away some of the more "difficult" listening and you may enjoy those tracks more.

Hope this helps you enjoy a really interesting and unique album.

Thanks again for all the great feedback on this thread. I have heard bits and pieces of Shadows and Light. Am quite sure I have it somewhere and will crack it open. I am a big Lyle Mays fan as well. I remember taking some friends to a Pat Metheny concert in 1979. They all hated it! I will always remember the comment : " that Lyle is a weird one!" as he blew on his hands after playing a hot solo!

Re Derek, I know! I know there is a song that will unlock that door and a new world will envelope me. I love his Allmans work. His solo stuff is very complex and I appreciate complex music. Warren Haynes first solo album was complex and well worth the effort to appreciate, as Kirk West advised me when it first came out.

And thank you for the suggestion on Caravanserai. I will try it! I think I am going to play Borboletto next, the third in his heavy series.

Cool story about Neal Schon. I had heard that, too. I really wish Abraxas Pool would reform! There was a rumour the original band was going to do an album last year. I am awaiting more on that one.

I love all of the Fillmore books and will definately check out the Fillmore west book. The Santana book had lots of Bill Graham references, as you would expect.

My recommendation for a Derek album to start with is Songlines. One of the best albums of the 21st century and it is in my top 10 of all time.

What the girl says at the end of the clip is how I feel about Songlines.