Posted by: @lee

Hope they are coming to your town! It would be cool if Peter Gabriel was with them.

 

https://www.genesis-music.com/

Sadly it is just the pop group trio version ... Gabriel and Hackett would need to be included before I even considered paying the fees they will demand

@harvey

Yeah it isn't the same but I would still like to see them as I never have. And one of my favorite albums of there's is Abacab so I wouldn't mind hearing some of that.

But you are right; I'm afraid of what the prices will be. There are some pre sales this coming week but I haven't seen the cost. And they aren't even playing here for almost seven months.

I gotta give the Genesis camp props. They are taking a lot of measures to keep tickets out of the hands of scalpers. You need a Ticketmaster account. Not a big deal there. Then there are two rounds of receiving texts with a code to put in. You do that. You have your mailing address to add but you won't get actual tickets anyway. You enter the show you want to go to. Then I think your zip code has to match the zip code (or somewhere close) to the show you are requesting tickets for. I could be wrong about that. Then this happens according to them:

WHEN YOU'LL HEAR FROM US AGAIN
On the evening of Tuesday, May 4, you’ll receive an email confirming whether you’ve been verified and whether you’ve also been selected to participate in the presale.

If you are verified and selected, you will also receive a text with your personal access code.

The Verified Fan Presale begins on Wednesday, May 5 @ 10AM venue local time. There is a six (6) ticket limit per code.

If you are selected you hear from them. Interesting. Never had to go through this much to get tickets for something.

@lee There was a story about them reforming on cable TV and only Banks, Rutherford and Collins are involved. 

 I can't see the two Canadian shows happening. They will no doubt be

postponed and tacked onto the inevitable second leg of dates in 2022.

I really love a lot of Genesis's music, and I've never seen them. I considered this one; Banks and Rutherford are great musicians, and Phil's son is a heck of a drummer.

However, we'll be able to see The Musical Box soon, not to mention Steve Hackett. That's the way to go. 

@jimsheridan:  Is Phil Collins' son the drummer in this lineup, not Phil Collins?  Or is Phil just singing and his son playing drums?

Was just notified I can get Genesis tix. If I understand it, long process. 

We are happy to share that you have been selected to receive an invitation for Genesis Presale powered by Ticketmaster Verified Fan! Below are important details to get you prepared:

RECEIVING YOUR ACCESS CODE
Tonight, Tuesday, May 4, you will receive two text messages that include: your unique access code, and a link to shop for tickets. The Verified Fan Presale begins tomorrow morning at 10AM local venue time.

Note: tickets will be available on a first-come, first-served basis, and are not guaranteed. There is a six (6) ticket limit per code.

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@robslob According to the story in USA Today about Genesis' first tour in the US in 14 years.....it will be a five man show not three as indicated earlier. 

Also on the tour is guitarist Daryl Stuermer and NIC COLLINS on drums. So apparently Phil isn't the drummer on this tour. 

I don't think it was ever indicated as just the three; they are the main "names" if you will. On the advertisements. Of course there will be more people playing. I think most bands have more musicians than just the stars. Ever see Crosby, Stills & Nash? The "extras" outnumbered the big three. Same thing with ZZ Top and the Eagles. Sprinsteen to a lesser extent. 

Regarding the drummer, I am just guessing but I would imagine they will have a drummer other than Phil. I would bet he is out front for most of the show and goes behind the kit for a few songs. Don Henley has been doing that for years.

Struck out on tix. I was online for an hour. There were four phases: lobby, waiting room, queue & pick your tix. I was able to get as far as the lobby but ticketmaster kept asking me to get into the queue. 

This was worst that anything I've ever gone through trying to tix.

Oh well. Can't wait to see how much these are going for on the secondary market.

Just one of many examples of guys getting screwed and disrespected IMO.

Just so you guys know Chester Thompson had been a touring drummer for Genesis since 1976. So nothing new at all with Genesis having two drummers on tour.

Ok so 1976!!!!

Daryl Stuermer joined the band on tour starting in 1977.

Both guys are also in Phil's solo band and albums.

So Daryl Stuermer has been in the band for 43 f'n years and still not a member??? Chester stepped down in the 2000s - likely fed up of not being a member of a band he played with for 35 years.

The Stones do the same BS with Darryl Jones - 28 years and not a member.

Millionaires and Egos

So Daryl, Darryl got screwed which means that their other brother Darril must be getting screwed by some egotistical rockers somewhere.

@canadianmule Has the Allman Brothers made anyone a actual full member other than the original six? When the Dickey thing came to a head in 2000 only Gregg, Butch and Jaimoe had a vote. 

Did Warren, Derek, Oteil and Marc ever become full members? I understand Chuck and Lamar were never full members in the 1970's. But all the names I just mentioned are listed as members on the albums. 

Just Mick, Keith, Charlie and Ron Wood are listed as members in the Stones. Even Chuck Leavell is a hired sideman and music director according to billing that I've seen for the Stones.  In the Rolling Stones a full voting member splits a lot of money even in years they don't tour. Mick and Keith both are worth over 300 million dollars. 

I won't even discuss how The Stones use Chuck without making him an actual member. Sickens me but clearly Chuck is fine with their arrangement as Musical Director/keys. He gets the band together, rehearses and get it all ready - the others show up and play a few days and on the road. Chuck does all the heavy lifting. So no surprise about Darryl.

The ABB guys were band members. Different deals then the original members which is only fitting. Some like Warren were more "important" as when he rejoined - he pretty much saved the day. He was also on a different footing career wise then when he originally joined. Much more leverage the 2nd time.

With Haynes/Trucks, the ABB should have made at least 3 albums and blew a great opportunity IMO. Without any comparison games with previous albums or lineups, HTN is a great album packed full of killer songs. Couple more of those albums would have been cool.

@lee- Don't give up hope as I am guessing the promoter did not release all the tix in the initial sale and you may see more prime tickets released as the concert dates get closer. If you really want tickets keep checking Ticketmaster every day as I have seen this work with other big name acts. 

@canadianmule It took the Stones 14 years to give Ronnie Wood full membership and that was only because Bill Wyman advocated on his behalf before he quit the band.

I am sure the Stones Darryl Jones and Chuck make good coin playing with the Stones and they know they have a steady gig as long as the Stones tour so doubt they want to make waves. I would also guess Mick J made it clear to them that they were salaried members and would not get full membership in the band. Mick is a pretty cold businessman and I doubt he would think twice about replacing them if they complained too much.

Is this fair? Only Darryl and Chuck can answer this question I think.

Genesis just added a second night in Chicago .... keep trying Lee ... 

I still have tickets to see Musical Box from last year - they are supposed to be rescheduling soon for St. Charles ... 

Posted by: @sang

Genesis just added a second night in Chicago .... keep trying Lee ... 

I still have tickets to see Musical Box from last year - they are supposed to be rescheduling soon for St. Charles ... 

So I saw. You don't even need to go through all the BS to get them as you did for the first show so I can get in. Upper deck is $200 a pop. Lower level tix I saw are $450. I didn't bother looking up what the main floor costs. I think I paid $75 for Springsteen and his whole crew the last time he came through here. I'd love to see them but my God, not for those prices.

Well they let Ron be in the pictures but that Full member term is pretty loose. Still pretty much a hired gun and he was always in debt to Mick/Keith and The Stones Inc. for advances on the next tour.

I am also sure that Chuck and/or Darryl have no complaints and the same goes for Daryl and Chester with Genesis. Good paying gigs. Gap years but not his doing - but Daryl has been there for 45 Years!!! Not even in the R&R HOF with them. But guys that were there for a few years are.

But because they don't complain that doesn't make it right. Chuck has been with them for 40 years and is on 30 releases. Lots of gap years of course but that is on Mick/Keith and not on Chuck. All Ego and Money but mostly Ego.

Every one of them would have loved for their bands to acknowledge them and say - He is in The Band!

“Chuck has been such an integral part of the Stones’ musical path through the years, and always there when you need someone to lean on,” Jagger later comments through his publicist, Fran Curtis. “He also helps me enormously with the way the setlists are compiled and differ night to night. Its been a great pleasure to play with him.” (Richards: “Chuck has been with us for so long that, to all intents and purposes, he is part of the band! A great, versatile musician and a great guy. He is our own Southern Gentleman.”)

Integral part and for all intents and purposes - a part of the band. Well except that you never made him and actual member.

@canadianmule Ronnie Wood is a full partner and gets equal share of the loot from everything except publishing. He will always be the new guy but at least he is getting paid now.

Is it fair that Chuck and Jones are not equal members? Perhaps not but that is business and evidently the benefits of being an employee outweigh not being made a member of the club otherwise they would have left long ago.

Not try to be cold or defend the Stones but no one is forcing them to stay in the band and it is a business these days after all so why should Mick and Keef share the wealth if it is not necessary? 

Bands may start out being idealistic and all for one but once the money starts rolling in that goes out the window and people look out for their own interests. JMO and YMMV

Ron gets nowhere near an equal share from anything whether it be tours or merch etc. He does very well and manages to always spend more than he has. Then Mick/Keith will give him an advance when broke. Ron Wood is a History Book of bad business decisions. No equal shares going on there. Charlie doesn't even get an equal share. There is a long history of everyone in the Stones getting screwed besides Mick/Keith. Ron makes a fraction of what those two do from a tour.

No one forces anyone. But everyone of those guys wishes that they were called "a member". Why a guy like Hackett was a member of 7 years and is in the HOF and Daryl plays for the same group for 40+ years and isn't. Matter of respect or lack of it.

It is just ego based. Would Chuck toss away millions on pride? No - But doesn't mean he wouldn't like to be given the title. Making someone a "member" doesn't mean equal money so cash is not the reason. Ego.

But if they are fine with it then so am I. daryl and Chester should have married Phil Collins - that is where you make the big money. 🤣 

@canadianmule do you have a source that states that Ronnie does not get an equal share? Where are you getting this information?

Many sources but it is in Ron's book. Keith's book. Mick's Book. And the most honest and best of them all - Bill's book. There is an endless amount of information out there. But the best source of all is Ron himself. One tour he took in 1.5 million + they gave him a bonus. - Tour Grossed over 300 Million so I will leave the math to you. Mick/Keith took home just a bit more.

If you were Mick and Keith, would you hand anyone who enters the band and equal share? No one would and definitely not the Stones. No business would operate that way nor be expected to. are all the years leading up to Ron not worth something? Of course. So not sure why you would believe that Ron is an equal partner or your source? That would be the dumbest business move ever and The Stones don't make those too often.

Ron is definitely not complaining. A small percentage of the Stones income far exceeds 100% of the Ron Wood Band or any other act he could join.

I have worked shows with them and know those involved with promoting their entire North American Tours. The Stones do not waste or miscalculate money. Huge business and they would never cut anyone in equally - nor should they.

@canadianmule interesting, I will have to go back and read them again as I don't remember any of them getting into the money split.

Bill's "Stone Alone" book ends in 1969 so before Ronnie joined the band so how could he comment on how much he gets?. 

There is a Forbes article I read today quoting Allen Klein where he stated the 60's Stones got an equal split. I will try to find it again.

I never said or meant to imply that Bill commented on Ron's situation.

I meant him talking about Charlie and himself getting screwed. They were. In truth, it was common practice back then for management to treat members differently. But they got screwed on income in a massive way. One guy has a house, car and lifestyle - the other lives with Mum and takes the bus. 🤣 

As with any business, no way existing partners would give someone new an equal share after they built the business. Not unless they are sinking a large investment into it - Ron wasn't. Ron's book while being terrible and very "imaginative" with details, he is pretty open about money failures and the boys bailing him out and giving him advances.

But believe what you will, I get no cash from any of them so not too worried. The Stones love Ron but no way they handed him tens of millions each year. They didn't need to. No manager would have let them.

Bill and Charlie could have walked and Bill eventually did. But they both decided a smaller piece of Stones Pie - is much bigger than most band's entire pie.

@canadianmule you may be right but it is all speculation as no one knows for sure how they split their money. I base what I believe on what I have read but again who knows how accurate the info is.

All I know as the Stones have gotten plenty of my money over the years for concert tickets, merchandise, CD's LP's, their books etc. 

Ronnie is a self admitted terrible businessman. Interesting article on the subject

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/the-rolling-stone-who-gathered-no-money-1819030.html  

Also read an article where Wyman claimed he can't live on his Stones royalties

Mick, Keith and Charlie start in 1962 - Ron joins 75 - they make him a member after almost 20 years - if you are them - do you cut him in as an equal? Ron was thrilled with any money increase and important - Status as an Actual Rolling Stone.

For a guy like Chuck, his deal is sweet as they pay him even when he isn't working. Sometimes with The Stones - that can give you lots of free time.

But it doesn't matter to me - Chuck is a Rolling Stone whether Mick admits it or not.

Hell I saw The Stones without Mick, Keith, Ron or Charlie - just Chuck and the band/singers. That makes him even more Stone than they are. 🤣 

Posted by: @canadianmule

Mick, Keith and Charlie start in 1962 - Ron joins 75 - they make him a member after almost 20 years - if you are them - do you cut him in as an equal? Ron was thrilled with any money increase and important - Status as an Actual Rolling Stone.

 

For a guy like Chuck, his deal is sweet as they pay him even when he isn't working. Sometimes with The Stones - that can give you lots of free time.

But it doesn't matter to me - Chuck is a Rolling Stone whether Mick admits it or not.

Hell I saw The Stones without Mick, Keith, Ron or Charlie - just Chuck and the band/singers. That makes him even more Stone than they are. 🤣 

I really don't understand the business end of music. Way beyond my mind. But as far as Ron being an equal member, would that just mean whatever he is involved in as far as song writing and album sales,touring and etc,from his inception into the band and forward? It seems only logical he would, but like I said I don't understand all the politics and egos that go into it. I can understand everything before as far as songwriting and sales. But to me if they are in the band and contribute from their time of entry into the group and on...