"Sleepwalk" - Santo and Johnny 1959. Does a steel guitar count as slide?

Also depends on what you call "rock". Robert Nighthawk, Elmore James, Muddy et al were using slides as early as the 1940s.

"Sleepwalk" - Santo and Johnny 1959. Does a steel guitar count as slide?

I was thinking of the traditional bottleneck style.

Also depends on what you call "rock". Robert Nighthawk, Elmore James, Muddy et al were using slides as early as the 1940s.

This is where it gets really blurry. I think of rock as beginning with Bill Haley, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, and so on, which is really subjective. But Chuck Berry recorded with Willie Dixon, Lafayette Leake, Fred Below, and other bluesmen. Suddenly the question is a lot harder to answer than I figured.

FWIW, here's a whole raft of opinions on the first rock song: https://www.google.com/search?q=what+was+the+first+rock+song+ever+made&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS776US776&oq=what+was+the+first+rock+song&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l7.6900j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And of course, there were countless obscure singles and albums that would qualify as rock, but never got heard.

I suspect there isn't a definitive answer. To quote Emily Litella, "Never mind!"

Billastro

Doing as much digging as I can. You might be spot-on with "I Wanna Be Your Man".

Great topic! 😉

I don't know if it would be that performance, but as far as a well known white pop musician using a slide - Brian Jones. What was going on in black jooks from the Delta to Chicago, safe bet there was some serious rockin slide guitar.

There are a lot of reasons why it would be Brian. Keith paints the details in his book, main factors being: When Jones and a small cult of pre-Stones blues record collector kids in England were into this stuff, the blues was unknown to whites, other than as processed thru jazz, rocknroll and C&W , collectors were nerds - pretty academic about it, they didn't dream of playing it. For Brian to imitate it was a giant leap. He picked it up as a curiosity from an alien culture, a relic throwback to pre rocknroll blues "authenticity" - which was not a priority in pop. The unlikelihood of anyone playing slide at that time really narrows it down to Brian Jones being the gateway to slide guitar for the rock generation.

[Edited on 3/17/2020 by BrerRabbit]

Yes the slide playing on Beggars Banquet, w/No Expectations, Jigsaw Puzzle etc was & is tremendous - same w/Jesse Ed Davis On Taj’s version of Statesboro as far as early slide playing

*good call Bill on IWBYMan, had never listened closely to their version b4 - yep that is probably among the very 1st rock n roll electric slide solos

[Edited on 3/17/2020 by Stephen]

He’s not that well known but in terms of the blues, JD Hutto was an early slide guitar whiz (“Hawk Squat!”) - also obviously Elmore James, others

Early rock slide playing - even more than Jesse Ed (agreed pops42, great player), Duane is the pioneer in my book - Page, Beck, Hendrix - they had awesome ones before then like What is & What should never be, Hats off to Roy Harper, Jimi’s intro to Night Bird Flying, but Duane brought it to the forefront

[Edited on 3/17/2020 by Stephen]

American Roots music can be broken down as follows.
African Slave Music became the Blues and Jazz.
Appalachian Mountain Music became Bluegrass and Country.
I dig The Allman Brothers Band Stew the best.

For sure it was Duane Allman set the standard for all to aspire to.

American Roots music can be broken down as follows.
African Slave Music became the Blues and Jazz.
Appalachian Mountain Music became Bluegrass and Country.
I dig The Allman Brothers Band Stew the best.

Those are certainly the meat and potatoes in the American roots pot. There are also a lot of secret recipe vegetables herbs and spices, immigrant traditional sounds from all their countries of origin, especially coming up from jazz, you have Eastern Europe, klezmer, Spanish sounds, flamenco, even the classical being played all over rhe place during the 18th and 19th centuries, waltzes. Scott Joplin influenced everybody after and he was into classical. eg Les Brers sounds nothing like blues or Appalachian, it is way out into the Gypsy minor mode.

BrerRabbit, you are are right that Brian Jones was really seen as a pioneer / innovator with his slide playing. He was highly rated in the early 60s but has really fallen out of discussion of guitar players, it seems.

It is funny - and it is a clear sign of context - because I am SO spoiled by a lifetime of listening to Duane and Mick Taylor, and then Derek, as well as hearing some hotshots like Sonny Landreth and Ry Cooder - Brian's slide playing, while often tasty and soulful, is not what I think of when I think of slide playing, even though I'm a Stones fan.

In the same way, I don't always consider the Model T when thinking of cars, but....

Yes on Duane Allman. I can't think of any guitarist who could play what Duane plays on those old ABB albums better for the arrangement of the song. The energy and clean playing is a high bar to top. Others perhaps could add some licks or have a different approach but no way would it be better than what Duane played on songs we appreciate as Allman Brothers songs.

On regular guitar I don't hear anything that would be better than what Duane and Dickey play. Listen to You Dont Love Me from Fillmore East for an example. Duane and Dickey are as hot as humanly possible on that record. Other grest players could do it differently but NOT better.

Heck the same for Gregg, Berry, Butch and Jaimoe. Excellent playing from all 6 and fantastic singing from Gregg.

Jaimoe just recently talked about what a great singer Gregg was and what a great musician and insprition Duane was.

Duane is a huge influence on Derek Trucks. Derek has said it several times.

[Edited on 3/19/2020 by blackey]

Blackey, are you sure Duane was an influence on Derek? I have never seen or heard of any hint of a connection between the two players.

(early April Fools)

I remember the first time I heard Derek - tiny place in Flagstaff mid 90s. I had never heard of him, wandered in prepared for yet another yawn, there were maybe 15 people there. I pulled a table near the stage. Duane aside, the influence that struck me most was Ravi Shankar. The kid was rippin electric ragas! Smoked my skull.

BrerRabbit, you are are right that Brian Jones was really seen as a pioneer / innovator with his slide playing. He was highly rated in the early 60s but has really fallen out of discussion of guitar players, it seems.

Jones wasn't a very good guitarist is why.

He was good for his time and in his context.

The same holds true for many of the early bluesmen; without them, we would not have the great players that we have today, yet ironically, the great players of today have made it tough for us to listen to some of the originals and fully enjoy or appreciate them.

Just about my favorite non-Duane slide playing is Tommy Talton’s Dreams solo from The Gregg Allman Tour album - very effective w/the orchestral - ethereal, like how Jack would sound on it in later years, Derek & Warren too

Yep pretty sure Billastro is right, the Stones’ IWBYMan is probly the 1st w/an out-front electric slide solo like that

Derek Trucks said his style is a mix of Duane Allman, Elmore James and some easter musicians. Ravi must have been one.

Yeah I rarely play my copy of Robert Johnson playing Crossroads. The Cream version is the big show for that song.

Keith Richards is a good player. Rhythm and fantastic riffs. I was never a big Brian Jones fan but he fit well with the band. But to me the Stones never had a real good lead player until Taylor joined. The best guitarist ever in that band. But they put on a big show without him. Their crowd is in to Mick, Keith and Watts on drums, all those classic hits and the visual thing.

. . .tough for us to listen to some of the originals

True, for the mainstream rock audience. Not for me at all. Brian Jones and the Stones was a guide to the blues for me, I eventually found my way to the source of his inspiration - love em all, every old time bluesman I have ever heard. Without the Rolling Stones I might never have learned about the blues.

Keith Richards is a good player. Rhythm and fantastic riffs. I was never a big Brian Jones fan but he fit well with the band. But to me the Stones never had a real good lead player until Taylor joined. The best guitarist ever in that band. But they put on a big show without him. Their crowd is in to Mick, Keith and Watts on drums, all those classic hits and the visual thing.

Roy Buchannon would have been a great fit musically, personally?? nah!. Clapton always sounded good with them, Jesse Ed Davis would have been cool.

I read many years ago in a book that guitar player put out that had articles from many players. Sort of a compilation book of many articles. I read Roy was asked to replace someone in the Stones and he turned it down due to not liking to tour. I saw Roy a few time...mind bending great player so in control of his instrument

In the wake of Mick Taylor leaving, the Stones' discussion was pretty interesting.

They had Jeff Beck in for a try; they considered Roy Buchanan and Rory Gallagher; they had Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel play in the studio for some songs on "Black and Blue"; they finally decided on Ron Wood.

Wood probably was a better fit IF you consider that the Stones were sort of chasing trends for a while in the late 70s and early 80s, or at least making concessions to disco and punk and the changing sense of what was hip. They deliberately avoided getting a hot lead guitar player. Their level of success and popularity only grew.

"Some Girls" and "Tattoo You" are great albums. I don't rate them as high as "Exile" or "Sticky FIngers," but those are insanely high bars to reach. I don't think Woody was ever as obviously great as he was with Rod / Faces on the "Every Picture Tells a Story" album or the song "Stay With Me" (or even his solo album "I've Got My Own Album to Do"), but again, those are very high bars to reach.

Everyone in California has been ordered by Governor to stay home for the next 8 weeks. Only trips to drug and grocery stores or in just weeks, 22 million Californians will have the virus.

It is just unbelievable Mick Taylor was bold enough to quit the Rolling Stones. He walked away from millions of dollars. Jagger and Richards are worth over 350 million dollars. Of course their tandem song writing credits are a good part of that wealth but Chatlie Watts is worth 250 million and Ron Wood is 110 million.

Mick Taylor's net worth according to Celebrity net worth tracking is just 300 thousand dollars
Well that is a tidy sum for me to have.

Jaimoe is listed as being worth 2 million dollars, Derek Trucks. 6 million. Warren Haynes 13 million. Dickey Betts 40 million and the one I was most curious about is Chuck Leavell who is a hired gun for the Stones for years. He is listed at 5 million.

I remember the first time I saw Sea Level in late 1976, it was a night club in Greensboro. A piano was already on the stage. When the band arrived, Jaimoe, Lamar Williams, the guitar player Jimmy Nalls with a guy I didnt recognize plus Chuck, set up their own equipment. Jaimoe when back and forth bringing in his equipment several times. His bass drum still had Allman Brothers Band inside a mushroom on the front and Chuck was wearing a belt around his pants with piano keys.

Just earlier in 1976 I saw the ABB in Roanoke, Virginia and they had a full compliment of roadies.

I ask Chuck if the ABB was done and he said right now everyone is mad at Gregg, especially Butch Trucks, and it's likely to stay that way. I said I heard Butch was in this band. Chuck said he did several shows with Sea Level but Chuck said he told Butch he liked it better with just the four of us. I didn't get it. When Chuck soloed in the ABB on Liz Reed, Les Brer, Jessica etc, Lamar Williams, Jaimoe and Butch Trucks always really hooked together behind him with such tasty stuff like a smooth jazz band.

[Edited on 3/20/2020 by blackey]

...They had Jeff Beck in for a try; they considered Roy Buchanan and Rory Gallagher; they had Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel play in the studio for some songs on "Black and Blue"; they finally decided on Ron Wood.

Wood probably was a better fit IF you consider that the Stones were sort of chasing trends for a while in the late 70s and early 80s ...

... I don't think Woody was ever as obviously great as he was with Rod / Faces on the "Every Picture Tells a Story" album or the song "Stay With Me" (or even his solo album "I've Got My Own Album to Do"), but again, those are very high bars to reach.

Wayne Perkins got as far as being officially announced by the Rolling Stones management as Taylor's replacement. Living in Birmingham (hometown of Wayne, Eddie Hinton and originally, Chuck Leavell) I got to see Wayne's band play virtually every Saturday night for several years. I assumed the fly-on-the-wall position on several instances to hear some of his 'Stones stories.

His work on Black and Blue (especially "Fool to Cry" and "Hand of Fate") should've cemented his position. I've read several accounts from "Keef", who made no bones about the fact that Wayne was a better player than Ronnie - and likely better than Taylor. The ending criteria (at the time) was that they wanted to keep the band English. They eventually made room for another Alabamian - Chuck Leavell. 😉

As far as Ron Wood's solo stuff - I wholeheartedly recommend "Gimme Some Neck" 😉

Best Ronnie Wood I've heard is on Faces bootlegs from the BBC Theatre 1971-73 - also the worst, gotta be by far the most sloshed slide guitar botchery ever recorded. Great GREAT tapes, QUINTessential Faces.

1st slide player: Duane sittin with the Second Coming and then Jeremy Spencer at Miami Pop late 68.
MSG show the BEST show since the early days.

Please Mr. President send me a check , I have sent you some.

Be Safe

Yeah I rarely play my copy of Robert Johnson playing Crossroads. The Cream version is the big show for that song.

I bet Clapton prefers the original. I certainly do.

Both Cream (Crossroads, Four Until Late, Outside Woman’s Blues) & the Stones (Love in Vain, Stop Breaking Down) did real nice Robt Johnson covers
Ten Years After’s version of Xroads smokes
Again, good call Billastro on I Wanna Be Your Man

Both Cream (Crossroads, Four Until Late, Outside Woman’s Blues) & the Stones (Love in Vain, Stop Breaking Down) did real nice Robt Johnson covers
Ten Years After’s version of Xroads smokes

Cream and Stones Johnson interpretations are great songs but all they share in common with the originals are the lyrics. About as faithful to the original as playing Bach on a steel drum.

Everybody should know about Robert Johnson. When you know about something, and comparatively few other people know about it, that’s a crime in a way; you’ve got to do what you can to tell people, “Hey, check this cat out. Because you’re in for something extra in your life.” You want to know how good the blues can get? Well, this is it. - Keith Richards

[Edited on 3/24/2020 by BrerRabbit]

That they are - for that same reason I never understood why Zeppelin was accused of plagarizing Willie Dixon’s Killing Floor - they called it The Lemon Song b/c it was so different instrumentally - JPJ’s bass playing is soo good