Obviously HTN was recorded but was there any other songs that got recorded during there time together?
I am not aware of anything left over from HTN or any trips into the studio later.
The last lineup formed in 2001 and disbanded in 2014. 13 years but 1 studio album. I find that amazing and odd. HTN did not sell well. I've heard it was about 200,000 copies which would be very good for the Allman Betts Band or any new band. But the Allman Brothers previous studio album sold over 500,000 and earned a gold record. But the Allman Brothers has never been a band that had huge selling albums like The Rolling Stones or U2. 1971 to 1973 saw 3 albums to sell over a million copies ( Brothers and Sisters over 4 million) but Lynyrd Skynyrd was the best selling so called Southern band.
So Butch Trucks didnt see the point of making another album. But Gregg Allman around 2010 said the ABB would do another album and if need be, without Butch Trucks. Butch must have won that fight because they never did one.
The Warren/Woody lineup lasted from 1989 to 1997 when Warren and Allen quit. But they did 3 studio albums. But none after 1994. So if you do a complete spread sheet on the band, only ONE studio album after 1994 which is HTN. That is 1 studio album in 19 years! Was it lack of sales which seemed to be Butch's position? Personally I think it was material. If they had material that equaled Brothers and Sisters, Eat A Peach or Idlewild South, then it seems sales would be at least 500,000 plus. Remember a 1991 Decade of Hits album with tracks from 6 of their best selling albums sold over 2 million copies when their new albums were not coming close to 1 million copies.
Apparently the last lineup didn't have the material. Firing Line and Rocking Horse were good Allman Brothers songs but the album didnt have a Midnight Rider, Blue Sky, Jessica etc. Or even a Good Clean Fun, Seven Turns or No one to Run With which got a lot of airplay and certainly helped those albums in the Warren Woody years outsell HTN.
[Edited on 12/1/2019 by blackey]
[Edited on 12/1/2019 by blackey]
Good post Blackey, I guess if we are reaching the Song worried down with Blues on Govt mule's album could be considered a ABB studio song.
Interviewer asked Warren a couple years ago if The ABB were gonna record a new studio album:
"Yeah, Derek Trucks and I talked about that [recording a new album]. We were thinking of the two of us producing a final Allman Brothers record. I had a few songs that I had written. There were a few cover songs. We were about halfway toward a record maybe, but we could never garner the energy, that morale, from each person. You know one day one person would be into it, but another one not. And then a week later, somebody else would be into it and somebody else not into it. Butch Trucks didn’t particularly want to make another Allman Brothers record and I understood his reasoning behind it, but I thought we should have. I thought Hittin’ The Note was a great record and that we had one more great record that we should have made."
I don't believe they recorded anything after HTN, and I don't know if there were any leftovers from HTN that didn't make the album.
They definitely had another album or two in them, but Butch always seemed against it.
200k might have seemed like a disappointment then, but it would be considered a massive success just a couple of years later.
Egypt, BAG End, Spots of Time, Dusk til Dawn an maybe I'm missing one but they definitely had a nice foundation for another record if they were so inclined.
Given how prolific Warren's writing was in the early/mid teens, plus throw in a few covers and I'm sure they they could've rounded one out. Gregg's My Only True Friend selfishly would've been a great ABB tune.
Oh well
I remember Gregg saying they were going to do one and they would do it WITHOUT Butch Trucks if need be. I wondered then what Butch thought of Gregg saying that. Apparently Butch didn't want the band to spend the money it would take to record one if sales would be so so. They were doing well selling tickets for shows especially on the east coast so I guess Butch didn't see why they needed to do another album. Having to deal with Butch and Dickey was a big reason Gregg had solo bands starting when he couldn't get Queen of Hearts on Brothers and Sisters. Gregg said repeatedly over the years he needed a solo band because in his solo band he is the only chef in the kitchen and he likes it best that way.
Butch was opposed to another album and opposed to stopping in 2009 at the 40th anniversary when some members were ready to focus on other projects. Butch got them to agree to go another 5 years then got cold feet about stopping then. Warren and Derek made it clear they wouldn't be the guitar players if they continued then Gregg was ready to stop it too. But by then Butch also needed a big tour to shore up his tax trouble. It became a sad situation but the band had a good last show at the Beacon.
[Edited on 12/1/2019 by blackey]
The Allman Brothers were always pretty focused in the studio, and judging from other album productions, rarely left anything other than rehearsal material or rough takes on the cutting room floor. And considering how Hittin' the Note is stitched together from previously-written material ("Maydell", "Old Friend", "Who to Believe", "Rocking Horse", the Stones' "Heart of Stone", Freddie King's "Woman Across the River"), I highly doubt there is anything left over. I recall reading that even "High Cost" had been sitting around for some time which is why some of the material made its debut as early as the 2001 Beacon shows when Warren first returned.
Not familiar if there was extras from HTN but they left "Delta Blue" off of Shades of Two Worlds. They then played it a few times at the Beacon many years later.
On a European tour in the 90's Gregg actually riffed Delta Blue toward the end of Whipping Post (on at least one occasion anyway).
"Is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?"
Rocking Horse didnt make the cut on Where It All Begins. Butch Trucks was mad about that because it was bumped by Mean Woman Blues by Dickey. Butch thought Rocking Horse was a much better song but Butch couldn't get Gregg to fight it with him.
I'm not too disappointed the band didnt get one more album. It is odd the last lineup was together 13 years and only 1 album?
Actually I just occassionally play HTN or the studio albums by the Warren Woody line up or the Toler Goldflies line up. Their best studio albums are Idlewild South, Eat A Peach and Brothers and Sisters. It's really not even close.
And their best live album is Fillmore East. My favorite ABB guitar solo is Duane's solo on Liz Reed from Fillmore East. It just flat SMOKES!!! And Duane's slide playing on Fillmore East and Eat A Peach is the best with all due respect to Dickey, Warren, Jack and Derek. Gregg said near the end his brother was their best slide player, Jaimoe agreed and I do too.
[Edited on 12/2/2019 by blackey]
Rocking Horse didnt make the cut on Where It All Begins. Butch Trucks was mad about that because it was bumped by Mean Woman Blues by Dickey. Butch thought Rocking Horse was a much better song but Butch couldn't get Gregg to fight it with him.
I think that's pretty common knowledge here. "Mean Woman Blues" might have been the weak link on a strong album, but "Rockin' Horse" is a Mule song, it never sounded like an Allman Brothers song to me (nor did "Maydell"). I believe Gregg sang the WIAB's version of RH.
Not familiar if there was extras from HTN but they left "Delta Blue" off of Shades of Two Worlds. They then played it a few times at the Beacon many years later.
Had not heard that, would have been a nice addition to the album. Certainly better song that "Bad Rain".
Here is a rough vid of "Delta Blue" from 2005:
I don't think butch saw the point in spending money they would never recoup in a studio. The band's ambivalence did not give much motivation for Warren to bring material there first. Gregg was not exactly prolific. Combine all that and you get... no new studio albums. As for Rocking Horse, WH wrote it for Gregg, who read the lyrics and refused to sing it, more or less. Which is not that surprising.
Butch Trucks posted on this site regularly and I was one who read his posts carefully. It was interesting to have a window into my favorite band. And Butch would answer questions. I ask who was singing the chant on Black Hearted Woman and Butch answered. It was all 6 of the original lineup with Berry laughing at the end.
In the early 2000's Butch became very anti Dickey in his posts. He complained Dickey kept Rocking Horse off Where It All Begins so Mean Woman Blues could be on it so Dickey would have one more writing credit. Butch said Rocking Horse was a much better song but Dickey didnt write it and Butch couldn't get Gregg to help him fight it.
Well Alan certainly knows a lot of inside info and if Gregg wouldn't sing the song, then no wonder Gregg wouldn't get involved.
It was Butch, combined with lack of material from Gregg specifically. From 2001 to 2014, the other members of ABB produced a ton of studio albums in their "side" projects:
Gov't Mule - 6
Warren solo - 1
DTB - 4
Oteil solo - 2
TTB - 2
Gregg Allman - Exactly 1, with only one original tune
And you can't have an ALLMAN Brothers Band album without at least a couple of Gregg Allman penned tunes. I mean, you could, but.........I bet ol' Butch would have softened to the idea of a new album if Gregg had brought some quality material to the table.
Gregg in later years mostly received a song such as End of The Line and cleaned it up, edited out what didn't need to be there and slicked up the lyrics a bit. Allen Woody said he had much of the music and words to that song in the bag, especially after working with John Jaworowicz when he let Warren have it. Warren added some cool changes and ideas to the song. But Woody said it didn't really come together until Gregg got it and cut it down and cleaned up the lyrics so they flowed better.
Gregg didn't come up with something from scratch like he did in the old days.
Maybe Gregg should have followed through on his threat to record it without Butch. I bet Butch would have warmed up to it real quick if it became clear the other guys were going to record. And if he didn't, then Warren could have called Matt Apps.
But probably it wouldn't have been much better than HTN. Apparently they were never again going to do one like Eat A Peach or Brothers and Sisters. The Eagles quit because they didnt like the pressure from the lable and management to equal or top Hotel California. Glenn Frye said their lable counted on them to keep them in the black and it's not a good feeling. They became too much business and not enough fun.
[Edited on 12/3/2019 by blackey]
The idea that the Allmans were concerned that their next album might be a critical or commercial failure compared to HTN or other ABB records is understandable. However, it is a shame they did not have more faith in their abilities.
I would still love for MunckMusic or the ABB themselves to put out a small-release or "fan only" release of an album / compilation of songs from their later years that were unique to that line-up and that era, and that had not been on official ABB releases on big record labels, and were songs that hit the note.
1. Egypt
2. From Dusk til Dawn
3. Spots of Time
4. Oleo
5. Blind Willie Mctell
6. Long Black Veil
7. Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad
8. 1983 (A Merman I Should Be..)
....as an example. I have some of them on Instant Live, but not all of them. If they put out a specific set of songs like that, I would snap it up.
Good idea - I’d like to see Bag End on that list too
If room allowed the Miles In A Silent Way stuff they did at the Beacon & their other jazz stuff
the band could have probably recorded an album in 1999.
as far as the last lineup, they recorded 2-3 covers for tribute projects right?
I know they did "the night they drove old dixie down". was it just Gregg who did "Tuesdays gone"?
the band could have probably recorded an album in 1999.
as far as the last lineup, they recorded 2-3 covers for tribute projects right?
I know they did "the night they drove old dixie down". was it just Gregg who did "Tuesdays gone"?
They were both recorded live on stage, and "Tuesday's Gone" was just Gregg. Most of the new material they had in 1999 made it onto Dickey's Let's Get Together
I'd like to see a Jack Peason show released. I saw several between summer 1997 and 1998 and all of them were tight and hot. Jack, Dickey and Otiel really hooked together on Blue Sky, Dimples with Jack singing and What's Done is Done plus many more.
Gregg didnt like any of Dickey's new songs from the late 1990's and neither did Butch. Jaimoe liked J. J.'s Alley which was a decent jazz number that Dickey retitled One Stop Be Bop. It is true Dickey struggled with Tombstone Eyes reworking it several times. Butch made it clear none of Dickey's new material would remain in the band plus Ramblin' Man and as soon as they did some more writing ALL of Dickey's songs would be removed from the band. Ramblin' Man and the new Dickey stuff were jettisoned but after more and more shows with no Dickey songs, older Dickey songs slowly became more frequent until a few were in every show. And why not. Dickey's old material is as locked into the band's legacy as anything Gregg wrote. Butch didnt like it but Gregg was beginning to get over his riff with Dickey until Gregg said he wanted to play with Dickey again and added Southbound to his solo show.
If there had been another ABB album, Tuesday's Gone would have been the track that may have put the album ahead of HTN in sales. Gregg's voice at the Skynyrd tribute show was fantastic. I still play that track several times a month.
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down would be strong for the album and I'd have Warren sing Dimples and All Along The Watchtower. Add Bag End or Egypt, Why Does Love Have To Be So Sad and round it out with what songs Warren had for the album. Gregg likely wouldn't have any new material unless he got to polish up something Warren had started. Bet that kind of last album would have outsold HTN and maybe Seven Turns too. And if Where It All Begins were topped, it would be a gold album. Nobody Left To Run With being such a strong song commercially and getting all that air play is why the album sold over 500,000. Tuesday's Gone would do the trick on that last album. Too bad nobody showed them that formula.
[Edited on 12/4/2019 by blackey]
[Edited on 12/4/2019 by blackey]
Derek wanted to make one. I'll never forget this quote from 2015.
"To me, the one big missed opportunity with that [last] incarnation was not making another record.”
We’ll never know what could have been, but Trucks is confident in the quality that the band could have produced. “Between me and Warren, we would have crushed an Allman Brothers record.”
seems pretty obvious to me... Dickey Betts was not in the band. therefore no great output of studio recordings. I think if you took the material from lets all get together with a little input from Gregg & Warren and you would have had a record at least on par with BWIAB.
seems pretty obvious to me... Dickey Betts was not in the band. therefore no great output of studio recordings. I think if you took the material from lets all get together with a little input from Gregg & Warren and you would have had a record at least on par with BWIAB.
Agreed. I truly believe that the ABB would of brought out a great studio album.
[Edited on 12/5/2019 by fender31]
Aside from a couple of masterpieces from Dickey and Gregg, there was no "Prolific" writer in the ABB. The light shined the brightest in the early days and I'm sure there are some fans who will swear by some later offerings.....But all of the "classics" had been recorded long ago. I was satisfied with "HTN"...But it appears the magic was long since gone and the band was just going through the motions with some good/great live shows. This seems to have satisfied the group simply because no one person took charge and was able to get them all into the studio. If material "worthy" of studio time had existed, we would have it.
seems pretty obvious to me... Dickey Betts was not in the band. therefore no great output of studio recordings.
I don't know. It's not like Dickey was knocking out a ton of original songs or studio albums after his ousting from the ABB. The well has been mostly dry for both Dickey and Gregg since the 70s.
seems pretty obvious to me... Dickey Betts was not in the band. therefore no great output of studio recordings.
I don't know. It's not like Dickey was knocking out a ton of original songs or studio albums after his ousting from the ABB. The well has been mostly dry for both Dickey and Gregg since the 70s.
dickey released an album in the early 00's and by 2007 had 4-5 brand new tunes again he was playing live plus a few covers. my guess is that was going to pretty much be the next studio album but he never got around to it.
anyone remember the name of all the songs?
get away
girl with the deep blue eyes
having a good time
there was at least 1 more
Gee I can't remember either. Dickey did say he wasn't going to write anymore songs just for the sake of writing new songs. If it sounds as if he is trying to write something rather than something that just flows, like it's writing itself, then it's " not worth screwing with".
Dickey had some decent songs in the early 90's such as BWIAB and Change My Way of Living and Seven Turns and Nobody Knows. Gregg decided Nobody Knows was a rip off Whipping Post and refused to sing it anymore but rather than dropping it, Dickey was bullheaded and kept it in the set list and sang it himself. That created a riff with Gregg in the mid 90's.
After the well ran dry on Gregg and Dickey, Warren just didn't have a transformative song like Blue Sky, Jessica, Liz Reed, Midnight Rider or Whipping Post. So the material in the last line up simply wasnt early Allman Brothers quality and commercial potential. Warren did write some nice Allman Brothers stuff with Dickey and Gregg but WarEagleRK is right. The band just didn't have anything that would become ABB classics like Midnight Rider, Whipping Post, Liz Reed, Blue Sky or Jessica. Warren apparently just didn't have a song on that level and with Gregg and even with Dickey, there was no Dreams or Southbound brewing to the top.
Doubtful, but you never really know. I remember there were claims or rumors that they were going to record another album but it never happened.
seems pretty obvious to me... Dickey Betts was not in the band. therefore no great output of studio recordings.
I don't know. It's not like Dickey was knocking out a ton of original songs or studio albums after his ousting from the ABB. The well has been mostly dry for both Dickey and Gregg since the 70s.
And we got Peakin' At The Beacon to fulfill a contractual obligation as they did not have enough material for a new studio Album in 2000. At least that is my understanding.
seems pretty obvious to me... Dickey Betts was not in the band. therefore no great output of studio recordings.
I don't know. It's not like Dickey was knocking out a ton of original songs or studio albums after his ousting from the ABB. The well has been mostly dry for both Dickey and Gregg since the 70s.
And we got Peakin' At The Beacon to fulfill a contractual obligation as they did not have enough material for a new studio Album in 2000. At least that is my understanding.
i never heard the part about the material. i heard the band had become unhappy with epic and didn't want to give them anymore new material so they released that to finish the contract
