Ok I had just listen to a Dickey Bett's concert from 1974 with Great Southern and listen to the new Fillmore West box set. I know this will set people off but Dickey's playing was much better with Duane. After DA passed Dickey still had it and Brother and Sisters proved he was at the top of his game. But as time went on he seemed to not play as well. It seemed to me Duane kept him working at his playing but once Duane was gone it seemed to just sorta fade somewhat.
Wondering if anyone else thought that way?
I think you mean 1978? Dickey's tour in 1974 was the American Music Tour and it was a different beast entirely - some fantastic roots, country and bluegrass style shows. Great Southern didn't form until after the Allman Bros folded in 1976.
Dickey has always been better when someone pushes him (most musicians are). But he and Warren (and Jack, too) were lights out together - you can't dismiss those early 1990s shows with Warren, there were some absolute beasts. He was still stellar with Dan, but those weren't exactly the most inspirational periods for Dickey. Naturally 1970-71 is probably the creative and inspirational pinnacle of all of the Brothers' careers, so that's going to be hard to compare to anything, but from a performance standpoint, the early 1990s comes close - that band was tight.
Dickey was crazy good when he was handling all of the guitar duties during first few tours of the Chuck & Lamar years - just think of how much he's playing on The Winderland and Nassau shows from '73. He spent most of 1972 carrying the whole band as pretty much the sole instrumental lead.
The Great Southern shows I've heard from that period are fine and all, but it was a different period - different music trends, different musicians playing the same songs that he had been playing for years. You can't compare Great Southern to the Allman Brothers.
Dickey was crazy good when he was handling all of the guitar duties during first few tours of the Chuck & Lamar years
Never better before or since, he was a giant at that time. Nobody can do that for very long.
. But he and Warren (and Jack, too) were lights out together - you can't dismiss those early 1990s shows with Warren, there were some absolute beasts.
Dickey was crazy good when he was handling all of the guitar duties during first few tours of the Chuck & Lamar years - just think of how much he's playing on The Winderland and Nassau shows from '73. He spent most of 1972 carrying the whole band as pretty much the sole instrumental lead.
Amen!!!!! I saw many shows in the 90's , and Dickey was tops. At times he was just way out there from the band and in a zone. It was a sight to hear and see.
I enjoyed all the lineups, but really missed his style,tone in the last incarnation. His parts could be played and served the music and songs well, but it still missed Dickeys signature sound,style,tone,touch which helped define that great band. That is no slag towards Warren and Derek by any means. Thank God they were there to carry this on.
I was to young to witness the Chuck and Lamar years, but the live recordings prove what a player DB was carrying on minus Duane.
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
i must admit i am puzzled by a lot of comments in this thread. The first time i saw Dickey play was at the 1973 Nassau Coliseum Shows. He was unbelievably dominant (I remember thinking that i was going to see Gregg Allman and came away knowing Dickey Betts).
He shared a lot of solos with Chuck and they were so good together. Chuck lended a jazzy influence to their jamming and it was in interesting switch from the hard core guitar sound of the band's first incarnation.
I saw Dickey on that 1974 All American Tour, and many times with DB and GS in the 70's. I actually think he came more into his own as a musician after Duane passed, and i am definitely including his later song writing. DB and GS shows from 1978 are on youtube, just go watch any of them and you will see a beast of a player.
He had a long period of playing top notch. I really didn't notice a decline to my ears and eyes till the latter years of his time in the ABB, maybe from 98-01. He was still good but not getting better, IMO.
My favorite guitar player and songwriter to this day
great thread
love reading all the opinions
Nothing was ever going to top what he did w/Duane & BO, but he still grew, esp in singing/songwriting - he had to, & he did - when it all fell in his lap he was there to pick up the pieces
The first 2 DB & GS albums, also the later Pattern Disruptive & Let’s All Get Together - aren’t essentials to have IMO, tho some good stuff
He had 2 massively underrated bassists in the later GS in David Stoltz & Pedro Arevalo
But as far as his guitar playing, like Jonesy I never thought he went way downhill or anything like that
Instrumentally, he’s a master - the 1999 Saratoga show, also Great Woods from that year, Dickey Was A Monster at times, as he was throughout his career
[Edited on 12/18/2019 by Stephen]
One thing I wish Dickey was able to do ,maybe in his later years or since his departure from ABB, was to put out a recording that reflects the diversity in his playing and styles. We are talking,blues,jazz,swing,country,rock,acoustic. I think if he could have hooked up with a great producer who knew what DB was capable of, and surround him with top notch musicians and maybe some song collaborators, it could have been something special. Endless possibilities with the genres he can play..and do it very well.
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
My favorite guitar player and songwriter to this day
Same here. He was an absolute titan for 3-4 decades. Obviously 1971 with Duane is iconic and groundbreaking, but he definitely grew as a guitarist. You can hear his confidence in his playing grow.
Those who got into the band in 69 always say Duane but we all heard Dickey a lot more over the years due to the accident. I was talking about this with someone and we agreed that Betts was really the bigger influence as he was alive and active.
Others above mentioned his growth. How many change their sound so dramatically as DB did with the B&S/Highway Call tone?
Lower those pickups down level, lower the screws flush, put the switch in the middle, turn the knobs and enjoy that sweetness!
Long live Brother Dickey Betts.
The ABB made a mistake by voting out Dickey. Dickey was key to the band being where they were in 2000. His unique guitar style and tone and original material and singing was the ying to Gregg's yang. Dickey's contribution to the success of the band from the beginning was enormous. Dickey's play was just as important as Duane's. The band without Dickey was not as interesting to me though I am big fans of Warren and Derek. Dickey was legendary to that band in so many ways from the beginning. Warren and Derek are not. It was like seeing the Rolling Stones without Keith Richards or the Dead without Jerry Garcia or Skynyrd without Ronnie Van Zant. Sure the replacement musicians are very good players but old fans like me just miss a member like Dickey Betts. And when they played a Dickey song it stuck out like a sore thumb he wasn't there. Butch said it was a different band now and Dickey's songs will eventually be eliminated. After a few shows earlier on with no Dickey songs, they began to revisit more and more Dickey songs until I see a show with Blue Sky, Seven Turns, Southbound, Jessica and Liz Reed played with NO Dickey. Warren singing Blue Sky and Otiel singing Seven Turns was more than I could take. Just before the encore, I walked out. It just wasn't the way I could enjoy an ABB show. I enjoyed the last lineup when it was light on Dickey songs or played none at all.
Just read a new Dickey interview in a magazine. Dickey said his new guitar is a combination SG Les Paul he got Gibson to build for him. It looks like an SG but it's controls are like a Les Paul . It's just a custom guitar Gibson agreed to build for Dickey but Dickey said he had a mild stroke then busted his head open when his dog pushed him down. Said he has gained too much weight from inactivity and his guitar chops are Rusty but he hopes he will sharpened them by next summer do he can play some shows again.
DICKEY said his son Duane and Gregg and Berry's sons have inherited the ABB legacy and Dickey is real happy with their band. That Jaimoe also has a fine band together.
DICKEY said he wanted to do a farewell Allman Brothers tour so the band could retire with something other than what happened to him in 2000 but Butch refused to play with him then Gregg didn't play any more with the ABB and it ended before they did a last big tour.
DICKEY was asked if playing with his son Duane Betts and other guitarists was like playing with Duane Allman and he said NO. Duane Allman was a totally unique man including his guitar playing so nobody makes you feel the way it felt to play with Duane Allman. Said he didn't enjoy electric slide but had to play it on Statesboro Blues and others so they would sound right and that Derek Trucks came the closest to feeling like he was playing with Duane Allman when Derek played slide.
And that is about it.
Also the big farwell tour Dickey wanted to do but Butch refused to play with him was probably in 2000 and the farwell tour Butch wanted to do but Gregg stayed with his solo band was appatently after the 2014 Beacon show's. I remember Butch saying he wanted the band to do one more big tour playing sheds across the country but he couldn't get it to happen.
Plus Gregg's health may have been part of it but Gregg did do several more shows with his solo band and recorded a new album before he got too weak to play.
After Duane Allman died, Butch seemed okay with Dickey except we now now Butch was pissed about not getting a writing credit on Liz Reed that bothered him since 1970. But in the 1970s it was Gregg that Butch would occasionally slam in the press. But by 2000 Butch was adamant he wouldn't play with Dickey again and slammed Dickey repeatedly in the press for several years. But Butch did say he would go along with Dickey playing a set in 2009 for the 40th because Derek and Warren wanted to do it but it would be hard. It became a mute point because Dickey didn't show at the Beacon.
Butch did go along with inviting Dickey to LA for the lifetime Grammy in 2012 saying they could all be together for this without having to play but again Dickey didn't show and asked Chuck Leavell to pick up his Grammy.
The ABB made a mistake by voting out Dickey. Dickey was key to the band being where they were in 2000. His unique guitar style and tone and original material and singing was the ying to Gregg's yang. Dickey's contribution to the success of the band from the beginning was enormous. Dickey's play was just as important as Duane's. The band without Dickey was not as interesting to me though I am big fans of Warren and Derek. Dickey was legendary to that band in so many ways from the beginning. Warren and Derek are not. It was like seeing the Rolling Stones without Keith Richards or the Dead without Jerry Garcia or Skynyrd without Ronnie Van Zant. Sure the replacement musicians are very good players but old fans like me just miss a member like Dickey Betts. And when they played a Dickey song it stuck out like a sore thumb he wasn't there. Butch said it was a different band now and Dickey's songs will eventually be eliminated. After a few shows earlier on with no Dickey songs, they began to revisit more and more Dickey songs until I see a show with Blue Sky, Seven Turns, Southbound, Jessica and Liz Reed played with NO Dickey. Warren singing Blue Sky and Otiel singing Seven Turns was more than I could take. Just before the encore, I walked out. It just wasn't the way I could enjoy an ABB show. I enjoyed the last lineup when it was light on Dickey songs or played none at all.
Disagree 100%. Dickey was physically abusive and as great a player & as essential as he was to the ABB he was a piss poor leader. His personality and violence had created a toxic work environment and no one in any profession or personal relationship should put up with that.. It was time for him to leave.
If I could only listen to one song for the rest of my life it would be the studio version of Blue Sky. The song was so perfect to my ears it should have never been played live. No way to improve perfection. I saw the ABB live 35 times and never cared for Blue Sky. It became a good time to head to the bathroom.
The original 6 Allman Brothers are still my favorite band in the world. Dickey was a huge part of that.
If I could only listen to one song for the rest of my life it would be the studio version of Blue Sky. The song was so perfect to my ears it should have never been played live. No way to improve perfection. I saw the ABB live 35 times and never cared for Blue Sky. It became a good time to head to the bathroom.
Then you never heard the version from Sept 71 with Duane and Berry
As good as athose versions are (9/16 Warehouse, 9/19 Stony Brook), I would agree that no live version could ever top the EAP Blue Sky - feel the same about Nobody Knows also, & to a lesser extent I guess, BWIAB
Dickey’s playing remained strong throughout but like blackey & DeadMallard, it was never more amazing than w/Duane & BO
During the Please Call Home DVD, late great brother Red Dog speaks w/such reverence about Dickey’s playing at a late Nov 1971 show, the 1st or one of the 1st, after Duane - Red Dog minces no words, & how I’d love to hear That show one day
As good as athose versions are (9/16 Warehouse, 9/19 Stony Brook), I would agree that no live version could ever top the EAP Blue Sky - feel the same about Nobody Knows also, & to a lesser extent I guess, BWIAB
I get what you're saying about "Blue Sky" and "Back Where It All Begins" - there's something to a perfectly crafted studio cut. Rare for the Allman Brothers. I do think the live versions of "Nobody Knows" blew the studio version out of the water.
If I could only listen to one song for the rest of my life it would be the studio version of Blue Sky. The song was so perfect to my ears it should have never been played live. No way to improve perfection. I saw the ABB live 35 times and never cared for Blue Sky. It became a good time to head to the bathroom.
Then you never heard the version from Sept 71 with Duane and Berry
I did and it isn't even close.
Just my opinion.
Like Blue Sky, I've never heard a Live version of Layla I cared for.
If I could only listen to one song for the rest of my life it would be the studio version of Blue Sky. The song was so perfect to my ears it should have never been played live. No way to improve perfection. I saw the ABB live 35 times and never cared for Blue Sky. It became a good time to head to the bathroom.
Then you never heard the version from Sept 71 with Duane and Berry
I did and it isn't even close.
Just my opinion.
I think what i meant here was it wouldn't have been a good time to go to the bathroom.
First time i heard Blue Sky it was live at the Academy of Music in NY on 14th st in I think summer of 70. I had seen them close the Fillmore a couple of months earlier and was familiar from that show with LAFE. I can't say it was better than the record and have never heard it recorded, if it was, but it was lights out and I'm pretty sure over 10 minutes. The air conditioning broke that night and the fire marshall came in and were going to stop the show, but they didn't. Don't think i could handle those conditions today but if I did it would be to see this song one more time. It was the original lineup.
Regarding Dickey getting fired from the band. I saw the biography the other night and one the historians said Dicky was stunned and didn't believe they could fire him because he thought they couldn't do it without him. He thought they would follow their usual pattern and disband to regroup at a later time. Gregg and the rest wanted to keep going. The road goes on forever.
Just read a new Dickey interview in a magazine.
Thanks for posting the link to the interview. Enjoyed it.
However, I found this comment very odd. I've seen other times in books and media interviews where Dickey has said similar things including that the ABB didn't really have a leader. The only time I've ever seen anything that downplayed Duane's role as the leader is from Dickey. Every other person in & involved with the band says just the opposite. Even people that worked in the studio with Duane pointed out his natural tendency to take over in situations outside the band.
The Duane/Oakley era is my favorite period of music from any band. Take away any of the original 6 and it's not even close to the same. Dickey was very responsible for the sound of the ABB right from the start. Massively underrated guitar player IMO.
To be clear it is the first sentence in the quote I've taken from the interview. The second part is why , in part, Duane was such a fabulous band leader.
Did his death put pressure on you to assume a leadership role in the band?
I actually never wanted to be the leader, and neither did Duane. We were a pretty loose outfit, and didn’t have a real regimented hierarchy kind of thing. If one guy had a grudge or a problem with the rest of the guys, we’d get together and talk about it. That’s how we kept things together.
[Edited on 12/21/2019 by DeadMallard]
Bottom line: DB was a great player and had he not alienated the test of the band he would not have been removed.
Had he not completely blown up over it, he might have taken time off, gotten his S together and returned
He might have returned for 1-offs and did not return.
Despite all the rumors and proximity of shared stages.
I'm glad he got some fan love recently, but put his album next to Back to Macon or Southern Blood and there's no comparison.
Drugs n booze don't do musicians any favors in the long run.
DeadMallard, Dickey’s comment seems fairly consistent w/what’s been out there
Duane dealt directly w/Phil Walden on behalf of the band, so had a slight ‘Brian Epstein’ role as far as that goes - but as far as life on the road/on stage etc, it was all 6 of them & roadies
He was the focal point tho for sure - at one pint he banished needles from any drug use, Red Dog recalled
Not at all based on Alan Paul's book, Scott Freeman's book, numerous documentaries, many comments by Gregg, Butch & Jaimoe, Linda Oakley, comments by many people that interacted with the band etc ……….
What exactly can you point to that's "out there" that is consistent with Dickey's comment?
Duane helped form the band, he was the key person there
It happened b/c of how the Music Blended Together & went places on its own w/out leadership during the famous Jacksonville jam
& yes, at the end of it he said, Anyone who’s not gonna be in my band......” my, being the key word
Also, Linda’s comment recalling the aftermath of his death & many wondering if the band could go on, b/c after all, Linda said, “he Was the band”
Still think Dickey’s comment is the pertinent one, he’d know better than anyone else - it’s all ‘semantics’ or apples&oranges I guess - people looked up to him - not as their leader tho -
Duane Allman was unhappy with the 2 Hourglass albums and the lable and producer telling them what to play and how to play it so Duane took the band to Muscle Shoals to make their kind of album but the lable turned in down and refused to release it as the 3rd album. Duane quit and the rest of the band followed. But Gregg stayed behind in LA to keep them from being sued as they still owed Liberty an album they would release and the lable thought Gregg was the only one with a chance anyway. Gregg began recording the next album and again had to record what they wanted including Tammy Wynette's DIVORCE.
Duane said he was going to work at Muscle Shoals. Said no need to call and see if they will use me, I'm just going down and get the job. And he did. But later missed playing in a band. Phil Walden bought his contract from Jerry Wexler and said put a trio together with you the leader similar to Jimi Hendrix. Walden introduced Duane to Jaimoe who was looking after Walden's act Otis Redding died in a plane crash. Duane had Berry Oakley in mind for bass. Oakley and Dickey had a band and when Duane jammed Dickey was there and they liked the twin lead that was happening naturally so they asked Dickey to join. Dickey and Oakley thought they needed a solid rock style drummer so Butch Trucks was asked to join and Jaimoe would play all that cool jazz stuff around Butch holding down the time signature. Then they decided nobody could sing as well as the band could play and Gregg was offered a chair in the band.
As to leader. Duane said they were a band of equals as players and as a band so no leader but when we do need one I'm it. Dickey has said " we all played the way we wanted but also we all knew it was Duane's show". The guys, especially Gregg, began to doubt Duane's insistence the band would be successful after the first two albums sold less than 100,000 copies and the record people began to think it wasn't going to happen. But Duane stepped in and said the next one will be live. "Get some of that natural fire on it". Soon after it was released the shows got bigger and bigger and the album quickly sold over 600,000 copies, whet gold then Platinum!! Gregg said the money began to pour in just as Duane was killed.
After Duane died I doubt anyone was elected the leader. Different members staked out their territory with Dickey being the most aggressive and that with increased drug and alcohol was the reason as Jaimoe said in 2000 something like this to a reporter, " This band keeps breaking down. 1976, 1980 for me then the band in 1982 and now again."
No question the original lineup was the most creative and the strongest musically. The live stuff on Fillmore East and Eat a Peach was NEVER equaled by any later lineup. No lineup could match the incredible play the original band could on these albums. Have you heard a later lineup match or top the version of One Way Out on Peach or Liz Reed on Fillmore? No you haven't. Case closed.
The second best would be the Chuck/Lamar lineup which was the most successful .
4x Platinum album and sold out Coliseums coast to coast. But that lineup was in decline the last two years. Uneven Win, Loose and Draw album that failed to sell 1 million copies after their first one sold over 4 million and their shows often were jaded and at times sloppy after being so hot and tight during all those shows they played from May to December 1973.
Apparently all agree the Toler/Goldflies line up was the weakest especially after they sacked Jaimoe in 1980 and added Mike Lawler on keys.
But the third strongest? I don't know. The Warren/Woody line up recorded 3 very good albums and from 1989 to 94 or so they were real strong live. And the Jack/Otiel lineup was very hot in 1997 and 98 at all 19 shows I saw. Jack and Dickey were really kicking it. Then the last lineup with it's loose wide open set lists and Warren and Derek taking the band in new directions but only one album. Technically the last lineup was real fine but being one who saw the original lineup so many times, it at times just didnt seem like the Allman Brothers to me. Maybe it was just simply having Duane, Berry AND Dickey gone was just too much change for an old guy like me. I'm baffled by some on here who seem to think the last lineup is the Allman Brothers. Perhaps they discovered the band after the year 2000?
I don't really know the third strongest lineup. But all of them could get hot if you came on the right night including the Toler Goldflies lineup which Butch said didn't have the right chemistry.
[Edited on 12/22/2019 by blackey]
Yes, regarding your last paragraph, the Pegasus>WPost vamp>drums>bass>Hey Bartender>& back to Pegasus for the close, from 4/20/79, Is a great jam -
they played the songs fast then & Rook’s solo is no different, in spots - but I dig his solo (when he’s not playin it like a banjo 😮 ) - great tone & melody
I think he might've been saying that Duane didn't consider himself everybody's boss and they didn't treat him like he was. There's no question that his personality, vision, and experience in the music business made him the leader in some ways.
