So I have been on this board forever and seen the Brothers well over 25 times since 1979. But this morning I am reading a Rolling Stones article about the recording of the Fillmore East album and either Butch or Dickey discussed the horn section that performed during the show.
Really curious about those guys. Anyone know how many shows the three piece horn section performed with the band? I have to admit I was surprised to hear about them.
I saw the horn section once. 1971 at High Point College in High Point, N.C. it seems one was called Juicy Carter.
They were with the band at Fillmore East in March, 1971 but Tom Dowd felt they were out of tune and not top notch players if I remember correctly. The only non member player Tom Dowd would allow on the album was Thom Doucette. Dowd supposedly rushed from the recording truck to the stage and told Duane Allman to cut the horns or Dowd would walk.
This is somewhat detailed in Alan Paul’s book. Another was named Tic Toc and I believe they were friends of Jaime. There is another horn player on 5/2/70 who seemed to fit in much better. Ted something? Hard to hear what Duane says. I wish that show could be cleaned up and released.
Saw the 3/11/1971 Fillmore East (the Thursday added show there were horns, a song or 2, I believe Juice Carter was the guest horn player/sax.
What did ya think - did you like the horns?
I wish that show could be cleaned up & released.
X2 - when the Brothers played on TV w/the Doc Severinson Band it made me wish I still had my Swarthmore show - as rough as it is, real good playing & do recall digging the horns on Lanta & Liz Reed - after a few close listens 😮 - liked how they sounded w/True Gravity & Kinda Bird on the Carson shows too
They get the full-blown brass treatment on last year’s Big Band of Brothers CD too - dug it 1st listen, like it better w/each successive one
Boy Tom must have hated those horns to threaten to walk from That project - horns or no horns the boys were hardly ever hotter - not exactly a shot in the arm for the musicians to find out their parts weren’t just being deleted but De-LE-ted 😮
But yeah the 5/2/70 source tapes must not be good enough to remaster - else it woulda been done long ago
I love the ABB[Edited on 8/9/2020 by Stephen]
The complete Fillmore box set has the
tracks with the horns.
I thought Blackey would be all over this one 😉
I think the horn section at the Fillmore were the guys Jaimoe played with whilst recording with Percy Sledge: Rudolph 'Juicy' Carter (Baritone/Soprano Sax), Arthur 'Tick' Allen (Tenor Sax) and Donald 'Fats' McClure (Alto Sax).
I could be wrong so as Tori suggested best check with Alan Paul's book.
The complete Fillmore box set has the
tracks with the horns.
______________________
The full horn section played on the 11th. The tapes were erased. An are no in the complete Fillmore Box.
Juicy Carter plays some on the 3/12 shows, but not a full horn section on the 12th. These shows are in the Fillmore Box.
IMHO, nothing is added to the 3/12 shows by the horn parts.
Hi CrossEyedCat. I saw the band play with the horns in 1971 and with the exception of Ace on harmonica, I liked it better with just the six of them. I do remember Duane or Berry mentioned one of them being Juiicy Carter and one of the fans said he was Jaimoe's old bandmate from Percy Sledge.
I'm sure Tom Dowd didn't like them and was opposed to them being in the album. I'm sure that was awkward for Duane and Jaimoe and the others. Music business can be cold.
I better correct myself Fats was not at the Fillmore according to Jaimoe.
http://alanpaul.net/2019/03/a-brief-history-of-the-allman-brothers-at-fillmore-east/
I think the idea was good for some songs, it was just the execution needed more thought.
This is somewhat detailed in Alan Paul’s book. Another was named Tic Toc and I believe they were friends of Jaime. There is another horn player on 5/2/70 who seemed to fit in much better. Ted something? Hard to hear what Duane says. I wish that show could be cleaned up and released.
If you could save me some effort, at what point during Swarthmore does Duane mention the sax player? I know he's really prominent on Stormy Monday (what an epic 17 minute performance!). I have a really clean copy of the show, courtesy of Skip, I might be able to pick out the name, if it's actually audible.
"Is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?"
I just love Ace on DKMW
Talk about grooving...
Yes indeed! VTAB Ace was with the band often back then and fit in perfectly. His energy and how he connected to the energy, vibe and determination of Duane Allman was almost as acute as the full members.
I always heard back then Duane offered Ace a place in the band full time but Ace was reluctant. He supposedly said he needed the freedom to go and come when he wanted and supposedly wasn't attracted to criss crossing the country month after month after month playing 300 shows a year jammed into a station wagon with the other guys. Later Phil Walden got them the Wind Bag which was an improvement but still not what a modern tour bus offers.
Responding to Old Coot's question, check after Liz Reed. Duane says something about Ted and what sound s like 'quille.' On an old cassette I once had, it was labeled as 'Ted Quille'. Again not sure who this is or if tape was labeled correctly.
Responding to Old Coot's question, check after Liz Reed. Duane says something about Ted and what sound s like 'quille.' On an old cassette I once had, it was labeled as 'Ted Quille'. Again not sure who this is or if tape was labeled correctly.
Okay, it's right before they start into Stormy Monday. Duane clearly says "Ted from The Quill, uh, playing tenor saxophone...."
So I assume The Quill might have been a group from that area perhaps?
Maybe someone has some insight on the group The Quill.
(more)
Did a quick google, there was a Boston area band The Quill (actually the first performers at Woodstock) but no information that I found listed a Ted as a member. So, the mystery continues.
[Edited on 8/11/2020 by oldcoot]
"Is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?"
CB: thanks for the correction!
The full horn section played on the 11th. The tapes were erased. An are no in the complete Fillmore Box.
Juicy Carter plays some on the 3/12 shows, but not a full horn section on the 12th. These shows are in the Fillmore Box.
Responding to Old Coot's question, check after Liz Reed. Duane says something about Ted and what sound s like 'quille.' On an old cassette I once had, it was labeled as 'Ted Quille'. Again not sure who this is or if tape was labeled correctly.
Okay, it's right before they start into Stormy Monday. Duane clearly says "Ted from The Quill, uh, playing tenor saxophone...."
So I assume The Quill might have been a group from that area perhaps?
Maybe someone has some insight on the group The Quill.
(more)
Did a quick google, there was a Boston area band The Quill (actually the first performers at Woodstock) but no information that I found listed a Ted as a member. So, the mystery continues.[Edited on 8/11/2020 by oldcoot]
Ted Deane from Boston, who played with "The Holy Modal Rounders" would sometimes play sax with Quill. Not 100% sure it's him that Duane is referring to though.
Responding to Old Coot's question, check after Liz Reed. Duane says something about Ted and what sound s like 'quille.' On an old cassette I once had, it was labeled as 'Ted Quille'. Again not sure who this is or if tape was labeled correctly.
Okay, it's right before they start into Stormy Monday. Duane clearly says "Ted from The Quill, uh, playing tenor saxophone...."
So I assume The Quill might have been a group from that area perhaps?
Maybe someone has some insight on the group The Quill.
(more)
Did a quick google, there was a Boston area band The Quill (actually the first performers at Woodstock) but no information that I found listed a Ted as a member. So, the mystery continues.[Edited on 8/11/2020 by oldcoot]
Ted Deane from Boston, who played with "The Holy Modal Rounders" would sometimes play sax with Quill. Not 100% sure it's him that Duane is referring to though.
Some of the background information on The Quill mentioned a direct connection to The Holy Modal Rounders and some members of each working with each other. Also said that The Quill broke up in the early months of 1970 (the Swarthmore College show is May of '70) and some of its founding members colloborated with THMR.
Too much coincidence for me not to connect the dots to Ted Deane as the no longer mystery saxophonist. Nice work!
"Is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?"
I did a Google search for Ted Deane and found his bio from 3 years ago.
"Teddy Deane grew up in Massachusetts, played with a few bands and then Holy Modal Rounders for 17 years. They toured the country in the band’s Greyhound bus an played with or opened for many names we remember; Frank Zappa, Alice Cooper, Charlie Daniels, Bonnie Raitt, the Allman Brothers … Teddy often sat in with these bands in addition to playing with his band."
https://sanjuanupdate.com/2017/07/fhff-sunset-cruise-with-teddy-deane-on-sax/
Some cool info in this thread. Thanks to those who pointed out that a lot of this is covered in One Way OUt. I often need to go back and check my own book for information. Juicy is really not too good on those tracks, though Jaimoe got mad at me once for pointing that out. That was his guy. Juicy in fact named Jai Johny Jaimoe, so... Imagine them with King curtis! Bill Evans and Ron Holloway always among my favorite late era guests.
I wonder if some of this was the right idea but the wrong time or context.
If Duane had lived a few years longer, and if he'd led the band in a more jazz-oriented direction, this might have worked out really well. He led the band (Gatlinburg recordings) into John Coltrane's version of "My Favorite Things", and it's common knowledge that he had the highest regard for Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis and Rahsaan Roland Kirk, among others.
Chicago and BS&T had some interesting ideas with this mixture (but BS&T + DC-T was pretty lame, in my opinion).
My favorite guitar and horns combination is Danny Gatton and Funhouse:
Incidentally, YouTube has a lot of live Danny, and so does tela.sugarmegs.org.
Billastro
Billastro that was a good horn section. I'll listen to the rest of it later as it's a full show. I like listened to the first three songs.
There is an interview with Les Paul on YouTube and when asked about Danny Gatton Les said " Danny is very heavy. You play him some cool lick you know and Danny will play it back to you and play it better".
Danny really mastered the Fender Telecaster. You don't know all those notes and sounds are in a Telecaster until Danny is playing one.
Wonder why he shot himself? As I recall, Danny didn't leave a note and some in his circle of friends and family were at a loss to understand it.
Nice info on the old school horns. But what's your spin on the "modern day" horns?
You know "The Jukes" ???
I always seemed to get Tuesday night tix and sure enough it was the night they played the most. One night I was in the front row on the horn side and was blown away (no pun intended) with how tight they were and having so much fun.
I go a long way back with back with Southside Johnny in the early 80's with the NYE shows at the Capitol Theatre in Passaic, NJ that was always a great show.
All I will add that the two cuts of Liz Reed that Juicy Carter is on (Fillmore boxed set) are literally terrible. It's like he's playing in the 'key of Z'. A big thank you to Tom Dowd for pulling him so we could get the masterpiece that ended up on the album.
