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Author: Subject: Ralph Nader's Statement Regarding the Passing of Senator Ted Kennedy

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 09:19 PM
Among Senator Kennedy's many accomplishments in the U.S. Senate was a
little-heralded but critical boost he gave to the Freedom of Information Act
legislation in 1974. At a time when the opposition to this bill was in need
of a countervailing champion, we visited Senator Kennedy, had a very sustantive
meeting and secured his networking support among other Senators, which led
to its passage.

One can only surmise how many major changes Senator Kennedy could have
secured through the Congress had the Senate been populated by the kind
of progressives who served in the mid-Sixties instead of their more conservative successors,
both in the Congress and in the White House.

His legacy of helping the impoverished, the excluded, and the needy in our society
will persist. Our sympathies are with his family in these sorrowful times.

Ralph Nader


[Edited on 9/1/2009 by woodsdweller]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 09:29 PM
Simple yet eloquent.

 

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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 09:43 PM
Before elevating somebody to sainthood over their concern for the downtrodden, I'd prefer to judge them on how they handle charitable giving with their OWN MONEY. I guess the other approach is to pass laws that separate other people from their money in order to give it to others, but I just don't see the virtue in that. Never have.

Putting your own money where your mouth is serves as a much better indicator of real concern IMO.

http://tsfiles.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/charity-donations-and-liberal-hypoc ricy/

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 09:55 PM
Chairty begins at home. Do you have any idea how Kennedy spent the rest of his money? For the record....any site that has Ann Coulter as a columnist is immediate suspect in my way of thinking.

 

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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 10:02 PM
quote:
Before elevating somebody to sainthood over their concern for the downtrodden, I'd prefer to judge them on how they handle charitable giving with their OWN MONEY. I guess the other approach is to pass laws that separate other people from their money in order to give it to others, but I just don't see the virtue in that. Never have.

Putting your own money where your mouth is serves as a much better indicator of real concern IMO.

http://tsfiles.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/charity-donations-and-liberal-hypoc ricy/


Well, people like Reagan and Dubya would certainly know about "seperating people from their
money" with their taxpayer-funded wars in Central America, Grenada, Iraq, etc. How charitable of
them. Did Dubya or Reagan ask the taxpayers if they wanted to depart with their hard earned
money and allow that hard earned money to be used to fund unnecessary wars? Of course not.
That's because Reagan and Dubya didn't give a hoot about "people getting seperated from
their money."

http://conservativenannystate.org

[Edited on 9/5/2009 by woodsdweller]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 10:06 PM
quote:
any site that has Ann Coulter as a columnist is immediate suspect in my way of thinking.



HAHAHAHAHA!

Great point.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 11:11 PM
People, left or right, are not buy nature, inclined to give away money. Thats why I beliieve in progressive taxation and govt social programs. The right's "let charity care for the unfortunate" mantra is an unrealistic cop out.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 11:35 PM
quote:
Well, people like Reagan and Dubya would certainly know about "seperating people from their
money" with their taxpayer-funded wars in Central America, Grenada, Iraq, etc. How charitable of
them.

http://conservativenannystate.org



Wow, I could have sworn that it was John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson that sent us headlong into Vietnam at 50,000-plus dead.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/31/2009 at 11:49 PM
quote:
quote:
Well, people like Reagan and Dubya would certainly know about "seperating people from their
money" with their taxpayer-funded wars in Central America, Grenada, Iraq, etc. How charitable of
them.

http://conservativenannystate.org



Wow, I could have sworn that it was John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson that sent us headlong into Vietnam at 50,000-plus dead.


The last time I checked, EISENHOWER got the ball rolling in Vietnam, and of course
after NIXON came into office after Johnson, he made no effort whatsoever to
end the war, despite campaign promises to the contrary.
Wow. Talk about forgetful.

Thanks again for hijacking another thread, Cliff.

[Edited on 9/1/2009 by woodsdweller]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 12:03 AM
someone starts a nice thread about the recently passed and the conservative attack dogs come and piss on it.

how nice.


I agree with Ralph completely.

and echo his sympathy and add my prayers for his Family.

He will be missed by many.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 12:10 AM
quote:
The last time I checked, EISENHOWER got the ball rolling in Vietnam, and of course
after NIXON came into office after Johnson, he made no effort whatsoever to
end the war, despite campaign promises to the contrary.
Wow. Talk about forgetful.

Thanks again for hijacking another thread, Cliff.




Yo, High School Band Woodsy, 9 people died in Vietnam under EISENHOWER, over 170 died under Kennedy and 36,000 died by the time democrat president Johnson left office. Can you say- Gulf Of Tonkin??

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 12:19 AM
quote:
quote:
The last time I checked, EISENHOWER got the ball rolling in Vietnam, and of course
after NIXON came into office after Johnson, he made no effort whatsoever to
end the war, despite campaign promises to the contrary.
Wow. Talk about forgetful.

Thanks again for hijacking another thread, Cliff.




Yo, High School Band Woodsy, 9 people died in Vietnam under EISENHOWER, over 170 died under Kennedy and 36,000 died by the time democrat president Johnson left office. Can you say- Gulf Of Tonkin??


Wow. Talk about ignorant. It's hard to be in a "High School Band" when in fact I'm in my 40's.
If Eisenhower hadn't started Vietnam in the first place we wouldn't be having this conversation.
By the way, How's the Derek Halsey Band? Still trying to learn how to play "Jessica" correctly?
Also, why did you fail to mention the death totals in Vietnam under Nixon?


[Edited on 9/1/2009 by woodsdweller]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 07:57 AM
quote:
Wow. Talk about ignorant. It's hard to be in a "High School Band" when in fact I'm in my 40's.


hey, that's great. What's the name of your band?? Are you playing at Thirsty John's, Turtle Pond tavern, where?? Do you have a website with some audio or video?? Thanks ahead of time.

quote:
Still trying to learn how to play "Jessica" correctly?



Not sure where that reference is coming from, please elaborate. Thanks.

 

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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 08:06 AM
Nader's a stand up guy.

yo Derek, awesome pic, your sig. Where is that? and juuuust to the left, is that a gazebo? That'd make the pic even better...

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 12:52 PM
Yes. Everyone knows that after Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt should have done nothing.

 

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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 02:30 PM
quote:
Wow, I could have sworn that it was John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson that sent us headlong into Vietnam at 50,000-plus dead.


Wow, Vietnam is now in Central America?

I wonder how many have died as a result of giving tons of weapons, support, aid and money to the various regimes like Iran, central america etc. I bet its more than the 53K or so in Vietnam.

Keep defending the indefensible. You know like you know your own name that if a Democrat had done back room deals and gave weapons to our enemies to trade for hostages (thats appeasement, btw) you would be here crying daily about it, but because its St. Ronnie.... nada. Whats that word you like you toss around? Oh yeah, duplicitous.

 

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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 05:17 PM
quote:
yo Derek, awesome pic, your sig. Where is that? and juuuust to the left, is that a gazebo? That'd make the pic even better...




That pic is of my best friend's farm in southwestern Ohio. The farm has been in the family for about 100 years. We met as teenagers so I didn't know his grandpa, but I did get to know his grandma who was 95 when she passed away. She was wonderful and didn't mind talking to us hippies at all. She came to America from Ireland on a boat when she was 16 years old at the turn of the century with her sisters and never saw her homeland or her parents again.

I lived at this farmhouse for about two years when all of four of us bachelor buddies were in our late teens and early 20s. We had wood burners and an oil heater for heat and had to have water hauled in or we got it off the roof when it rained and it filled the cistern. When we were broke or it didn't rain, we'd get some big pots of creek water and heat them up and use them for taking a bath. I was living there when I went to the infamous and deadly Who concert in 1979 where 11 people died and the deaths were announced on Monday Night Football and we all had to call a ton of relatives from all over the country and even overseas when we got home that night to let them know we were alright. My buddy eventually got married and took over the house to raise his family.

Thw building to the left is not a gazebo but the milk house, where the fresh milk was kept when the farm still had dairy cows. Straight back along the rock walkway and behind the weeping pines is the chicken coop.

Here is a view looking the opposite direction. Literally right across the street is the Whitewater River which comes out of Indiana and is only in Ohio for about ten miles before joining with the Greater Miami River and then the Ohio River soon after;



Here is a wild picture, for sure. It is of the section of the Whitewater River across the street from the farmhouse. But, look carefully. In the photo you will see my ex-girlfriend's son Jeremy who is looking for oceanic fossils along a sand bar, and as he walked north a whitetail deer with a rather large rack was wading across the river - and neither of them saw the other one initially. Jeremy looked up and the deer looked up as they got within ten feet of each other and they both freaked out and stared each other down for just long enough for me to take this picture. I happened to have the camera ready to go. It was kind of crazy because if the deer had decided to take a lunge at Jeremy, I was too far away to do anything about it right off the bat. But, it is an encounter that he will never forget;





DH

[Edited on 9/2/2009 by DerekFromCincinnati]

 

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  posted on 9/1/2009 at 09:14 PM
Speaking of lunging deer.....and I know this isn't the topic of the thread....but could someone please find and repost the deer roping story that was in here two or three years ago? I still laugh every time I think about it!

 

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  posted on 9/2/2009 at 11:28 PM

Wow, I could have sworn that it was John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson that sent us headlong into Vietnam at 50,000-plus dead.


The last time I checked, EISENHOWER got the ball rolling in Vietnam, and of course
after NIXON came into office after Johnson, he made no effort whatsoever to
end the war, despite campaign promises to the contrary.
Wow. Talk about forgetful.
[Edited on 9/1/2009 by woodsdweller]


Yes, he was forgetful about the fact that Truman was the one that got us involved in Indochina with aid of arms and material.
While you forgot that Nixon drew down the troop level from what Kennedy and Johnson had eventually gotten to 543,500. He also brought the Peace Talks from stalemate to actual negotiations. During 1969 and early 1970, he withdrew more than 125, 000 troops from Vietnam. Through the resat of 1970 and early 1971, he withdrew another 150,000.
This went on until March 29, 1973, when the last combat troops (2,500) were returned from Vietnam.
After that date there was no US involvement in military actions in Vietnam.
A few facts that might interest you:
No major battles were fought while a Republican was president. The battles that caused the most casualties were during the years 1965, 66, 67, 68.
November 1, 1963, the Vietnamese president and several others were assassinated. Three weeks later (21 days) Kennedy was assassinated.
The average grunt in Vietnam saw 240 days of combat in a 1 year rotation. A grunt during WWII in Pacific service saw an average of 40 days of combat, during a 4 year enlistment.
The UH-1 (Huey, my favorite) earned 7,531,955 hours of flight during the Vietnam Conflict (since it never was declared a war).

 

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  posted on 9/3/2009 at 04:20 AM
quote:

Wow, I could have sworn that it was John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson that sent us headlong into Vietnam at 50,000-plus dead.


The last time I checked, EISENHOWER got the ball rolling in Vietnam, and of course
after NIXON came into office after Johnson, he made no effort whatsoever to
end the war, despite campaign promises to the contrary.
Wow. Talk about forgetful.
[Edited on 9/1/2009 by woodsdweller]


Yes, he was forgetful about the fact that Truman was the one that got us involved in Indochina with aid of arms and material.
While you forgot that Nixon drew down the troop level from what Kennedy and Johnson had eventually gotten to 543,500. He also brought the Peace Talks from stalemate to actual negotiations. During 1969 and early 1970, he withdrew more than 125, 000 troops from Vietnam. Through the resat of 1970 and early 1971, he withdrew another 150,000.
This went on until March 29, 1973, when the last combat troops (2,500) were returned from Vietnam.
After that date there was no US involvement in military actions in Vietnam.
A few facts that might interest you:
No major battles were fought while a Republican was president. The battles that caused the most casualties were during the years 1965, 66, 67, 68.
November 1, 1963, the Vietnamese president and several others were assassinated. Three weeks later (21 days) Kennedy was assassinated.
The average grunt in Vietnam saw 240 days of combat in a 1 year rotation. A grunt during WWII in Pacific service saw an average of 40 days of combat, during a 4 year enlistment.
The UH-1 (Huey, my favorite) earned 7,531,955 hours of flight during the Vietnam Conflict (since it never was declared a war).



Is this the same Jerry who started this retarded thread?
http://allmanbrothers.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=v iewthread&tid=93202#pid2157858

Allow me to jog your (lack of) memory...
EISENHOWER GOT THE BALL ROLLING IN VIETNAM
In April 1954, when a French military defeat was apparent and negotiations at Geneva were
scheduled, the National Security Council urged President Eisenhower "to inform Paris that
French aquiescence in a Communist take-over of Indochina would bear on its status as
one of the Big Three."

A Council paper recommended that "IT BE U.S. POLICY TO ACCEPT NOTHING SHORT
OF A MILITARY VICTORY IN INDOCHINA" and that the "U.S ACTIVELY OPPOSE ANY
NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENTS IN INDOCHINA AT GENEVA". The Council stated further
that, if necessary, the U.S. SHOULD CONSIDER CONTINUING THE WAR WITHOUT
FRENCH PARTICIPATION.

In May 1954, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Aurthur Radford, sent
a memorandum to Defense Secretary Charles Wilson on "STUDIES WITH RESPECT TO
POSSIBLE U.S. ACTIONS REGARDING INDOCHINA" which stated that "THE EMPLOYMENT
OF ATOMIC WEAPONS IS CONTEMPLATED IN THE EVENT THAT SUCH COURSE APPEARS
MILITARILY ADVANTAGEOUS." Charles Willoughby, MacAurthur's director of intelligence,
put it a bit more poetically when he advocated the use of atomic bombs "TO CREATE A
BELT OF SCORCHED EARTH ACROSS THE AVENUES OF COMMUNISM TO BLOCK THE ASIAN
HORDES".

By this time, two American aircraft carriers equipped with atomic weapons had been ordered
in the Gulf of Tonkin, in the North of Vietnam, and Dulles is, in fact, reported to have offered
his French counterpart, Georges Bidault, ATOMIC BOMBS to save Dien Bien Phu.

The Geneva Conference , on July 20, 1954, put a formal end to the war in Vietnam.
THE UNITED STATES WAS ALONE IN REFUSING TO SIGN THE FINAL DECLARATION,
PURELY BECAUSE IT WAS PEEVED AT THE FINAL SETTLEMENT, WHICH PRECLUDED
ANY FURTHER MILITARY EFFORT TO DEFEAT THE VIETMINH. There had been ample
indication of American displeasure with the whole process well before the end
of the conference. Two weeks earlier, for example, Eisenhower had declared at
a news conference, "I WILL NOT BE PARTY TO ANY TREATY THAT MAKES ANYBODY
A SLAVE; NOW THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT."

NIXON MADE NO EFFORT TO STOP THE WAR.
After taking office in 1969, instead of bringing the war to a complete halt,
here's how Nixon spent the next 4 years (before finally admitting
defeat in the Vietnam War in 1973, signing the "Agreement on Ending The War
and Restoring Peace in Vietnam", and imposing a trade and assistance embargo
on Vietnam which lasted until 1994):

1. WAR EFFORT EXPANDED.
2. UNITED STATES INCREASED ITS BOMBING OF NORTH VIETNAM
3. NIXON EXPANDED THE WAR INTO LAOS and CAMBODIA, WHERE HE SECRETLY
AUTHORIZED BOMBING TO BLOCK ENEMY SUPPLY ROUTES ON VIETNAM'S
BORDERS. Fred Branfman, a former American community worker in Laos, wrote:
"village after village was leveled, countless people burned alive by explosives, or
burnt alive by napalm and white phosphorus, or riddled by anti-personel bomb
pellets".." The U.S. has undertaken a large scale war over Laos to destroy the physical and social
infrastructure of Pathet Lao held areas and to interdict North Vietnamese infiltration," said a Senate
report, "throughout all this there has been a policy of SUBTERFUGE AND SECRECY..
through such things as saturation bombing and the forced evacuation of enemy
held or threatened areas---we have helped to CREATE UNTOLD AGONY FOR HUNDREDS
OF THOUSANDS OF VILLAGERS."
The American Military, however, kept proper records. AID could report to Congress
that wounds suffered by civilian war casualties were as follows:
1. Type: Soft Tissue, 19 percent. Compound fracture, 30 percent.
Amputation, 12 percent. Intra-abdominal, 10 percent. Intra-thoracic, 3 percent.
Intra-cranial, 1 percent.
2. Location: Lower extremities, 60 percent. Upper extremities, 15 percent.
Trunk, 18 percent. Head, 10 percent.

DOESN'T LOOK TO ME LIKE NIXON WAS TRYING TO END THE WAR IN HIS FIRST FOUR YEARS.
Do some proper research next time, Moron.


[Edited on 9/3/2009 by woodsdweller]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2009 at 11:43 AM
Anyone have any figures on the total number of days an average soldier has been deployed in Iraq? I'm betting it's more than the totla number of days the average soldier spent in Vietnam.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2009 at 12:03 PM
quote:
Among Senator Kennedy's many accomplishments in the U.S. Senate was a
little-heralded but critical boost he gave to the Freedom of Information Act
legislation in 1974. At a time when the opposition to this bill was in need
of a countervailing champion, we visited Senator Kennedy, had a very sustantive
meeting and secured his networking support among other Senators, which led
to its passage.

One can only surmise how many major changes Senator Kennedy could have
secured through the Congress had the Senate been populated by the kind
of progressives who served in the mid-Sixties instead of their more conservative successors,
both in the Congress and in the White House.

His legacy of helping the impoverished, the excluded, and the needy in our society
will persist. Our sympathies are with his family in these sorrowful times.

Ralph Nader[Edited on 9/1/2009 by woodsdweller]



July 26, 1940 - July 18, 1969

R. I. P.

Billastro

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2009 at 12:06 PM
Did you send flowers too?

 

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  posted on 9/4/2009 at 12:52 PM
quote:
People, left or right, are not buy nature, inclined to give away money. Thats why I beliieve in progressive taxation and govt social programs. The right's "let charity care for the unfortunate" mantra is an unrealistic cop out.


I totally agree with you. Our society encourages people to be greedy and competitive by idolizing celebrities, sports superstars, and billionaires whose lifestyles of having everything they want, when they want it is the be-all, end-all to life. We are encouraged to blame those who live in poverty for their own demise. It's so self-centered and immoral for humans to feel this way toward each other and we're intelligent enough to know better, but choose not to.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2009 at 02:44 PM
quote:
Did you send flowers too?
No, I didn't.

1) I didn't know her.

2) She didn't drown in my car.

3) I didn't run away from the scene.

4) I didn't spend 10 hours concocting a plausible alibi.

Billastro

 

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