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Author: Subject: Obama and McCain, together for the first time...

Zen Peach





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  posted on 8/16/2008 at 04:49 PM
Anyone plan to watch the forum tonight? This will be our first look at McCain and Obama together. Rick Warren will be the moderator, so this should be interesting.

quote:


Rick Warren's Forum To Include Questions About Candidates' Personal Lives

CHARLES BABINGTON | August 16, 2008 02:35 PM EST | AP

LAKE FOREST, Calif. — Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain agreed to appear on the same stage Saturday night, if only to share a handshake, as a televised discussion of faith ends a mid-August lull in the presidential campaign.

Obama spent the past week vacationing in Hawaii, and McCain held only a handful of public events during a time when many Americans were preoccupied with the Olympics and their own vacations. The contest now regains some intensity, starting with the two-hour forum hosted by the minister Rick Warren at his megachurch in Orange County, Calif.

Warren, nationally known for his sermons and best-selling book "The Purpose-Driven Life," will be the only questioner. Obama will appear during the first hour and McCain will take the second.

The men, whose generally cordial relationship as senators is being strained by the campaign, are scheduled to shake hands onstage during the switch.

The forum carries opportunities and risks for both candidates. It gives Obama a chance to discuss his Christian faith and counter inaccurate beliefs that he is a Muslim. But it also may highlight his positions on issues such as supporting abortion rights, which Warren and many other evangelicals oppose.

McCain's positions are more in line with evangelical Christians. But he often seems uncomfortable talking about his faith and other personal beliefs, and the Christian right shows less enthusiasm for him than for past GOP contenders.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/15/rick-warrens-forum-to-go_n_119248. html

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/16/2008 at 06:19 PM
McCain to lose his temper inside the first half hour....

 

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  posted on 8/16/2008 at 07:00 PM
I suppose I'll take a look, though I expect much pandering to occur. I'm not sure why religion should be important in choosing a national CEO. Do we screen for religion when we choose an airline pilot or surgeon? No, we only seek actual, real-world competence.

 

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  posted on 8/16/2008 at 07:53 PM
Actually, they won't be together. Obama gets an hour to answer questions, and then McCain gets an hour to answer the same questions.

 

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  posted on 8/16/2008 at 09:59 PM
Interesting. McCain said he would not have nominated Justices Souter, Breyer and Ginsburg. Yet, as a Senator, he voted to confirm all three. I will remember this the next time someone dredges up the lame flip-flopper allegation.

 

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  posted on 8/16/2008 at 10:30 PM
quote:
Interesting. McCain said he would not have nominated Justices Souter, Breyer and Ginsburg. Yet, as a Senator, he voted to confirm all three. I will remember this the next time someone dredges up the lame flip-flopper allegation.


Don't let the facts stand in the way of a good story.

Classic.

 

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  posted on 8/16/2008 at 10:39 PM
quote:
Interesting. McCain said he would not have nominated Justices Souter, Breyer and Ginsburg. Yet, as a Senator, he voted to confirm all three. I will remember this the next time someone dredges up the lame flip-flopper allegation.


It makes absolutely perfect sense because there was a time, not all that long ago, when the Senate largely deferred to the President's wishes and as long as the nominee was qualified and generally not controversial for any other reason, the Senate would vote to confirm regardless of ideology. So, for example, Scalia was easily confirmed as was Renquist before him. Republicans in the Senate voted to confirm Breyer and Ginsberg, though both were liberal Democrats. McCain, of all people, was not someone who played ideological games with judicial nominees so of course he voted to confirm the president's choices in all three cases. Along those lines, he would not have nominated those judges obviously, especially Breyer and Ginsberg. He is, after all, a Republican. It is not flip flopping at all. I would be more disturbed had he voted against them and helped cause the nasty gridlock that exists today in the Senate.

 

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  posted on 8/17/2008 at 03:06 PM
quote:
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/08/16/a-tale-of-two-candidates-mccain- vs-obama-on-evil/

A tale of two candidates: McCain vs. Obama on “evil”
by Mosheh Oinounou
LAKE FOREST, CA — Tonight’s “Civil Forum” at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church was an illustrative example of contrasts: Barack Obama approached questions intellectually while John McCain went with his gut.

One question struck that exemplified the tale of two candidates, and potentially could have been a commander in chief moment if both candidates had been on stage.

Among the questions Warren’s posed Saturday night was how the candidates would deal with “evil” during their respective presidencies.

“Should we ignore it, negotiate with it, contain it or defeat it?” the pastor asked.

“Defeat it,” McCain said without flinching.

“If I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. I will do that and I know how to do that. I will get that done,” McCain added decisively, quickly turning the topic to the war on terror–his strength. “No one should be allowed to take thousands of American, innocent American lives. Of course evil must be defeated…we are facing the transcendent challenge of the 21st century–radical Islamic extremists.”

McCain went on to cite al-Qaeda’s use of a mentally disabled suicide bomber last year as an example of “pure evil” and kept the focus on foreign evil.

For his part, Obama, who often answers questions in a way that allows you to get a glimpse into his thought process, acknowledged the premise before responding to the query.

“Evil does exist,” Obama began acknowledging the premise of the question as he ticked off the evils of genocide in Darfur, inner-city crime and child abuse. “I think it has to be confronted. It has to be confronted squarely and one of the things that I strongly believe is that, you know, we are not going to, as individuals erase evil from the world. That is God’s task. but we can be soldiers in that process and we can confront it when we see it.”

Obama then diverted a bit and focused in on the importance of showing “humility” so the U.S. does not perpetrate its own evils.

“The one thing that I think is very important is for us to have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, but you know a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil,” Obama added. “Just because we think our intentions are good doesn’t always mean that we’re going to be doing good.”

It makes one wonder if this question would have been an important moment if both men had been on stage and Obama had given the first response. Obama’s answer can be interpreted as a bit halting and while he did use the word “confront,” he turned the question around on potential U.S. evils. Meanwhile, McCain made the question about the foreign enemy and used aggressive, decisive language in his response.

In this hypothetical, it wouldn’t be surprising if McCain would have seized upon Obama’s response to hit him on patriotism or lack of decisiveness. It would also reinforce questions about the first term Senator’s readiness for the Oval Office.

It bears a similarity in fact to the first Democratic debate back in April 2007 when the candidates were asked how they would deal with an al Qaeda attack on two American cities.

Obama said the first thing he would do is make sure the U.S. had an “effective emergency response,” while Hillary Clinton said she would “retaliate.” She was lauded by pundits as passing the commander-in-chief test while he was given an incomplete.


 

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  posted on 8/17/2008 at 06:25 PM
While McCain's answer was custom made for the crowd he was performing for, it kind of reveals his thought process, too. Warren asked if evil exists, and what could we do about it. McCain immediately zeroed in on al-Queda, almost trembling while he was talking, and said we should "defeat" evil.

Well, how are you going to do that? I bet most of the people at Saddleback believe the root of "evil" is Satan. Well, how does John McCain plan to defeat Satan, or just evil in general? That is like saying you are going to "defeat" terrorism. It sounds great to the fear-based crowd. But doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Kind of like following Osama to the "gates of Hell." Sounds great. Very John Wayneish. Now where exactly are those gates?

I thought John McCain sounded very hawkish, which is what he was trying to d. I'm guessing that after 8 years of Bush, that is not what the American people are looking for.

 

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  posted on 8/17/2008 at 07:09 PM
Then why is Obama tied in the polls right now??

Actually, while I don't agree with all that Rick Warren says, he is a pretty open-minded guy who has slammed other evangalists for copping the wrong attitude. But, always good to see his followers stereotyped by the upper level among us.

McCain was refering to not letting Osama get away with it. Obama has said that he would go into Pakistan after him if he had the intel. Nobody I know lives in fear, period. Obama will be tested at some point, and he will quickly understand that you can't let those who specifically choose a path of evil to get away with it. By simple definition, in my opinion, combining freewill with the nature of humans, some will knowingly and purposely go against the positive grain of the Creator because of the perceived short term gain and lust for power over others. I'm not talking about those that make a bad decision, or even choose the wrong path, but those that specifically know what and why they are doing the evil that they do. I know in the 'Dr. Dyer says that there is no good or evil' New Age world that Hitler got a pat on the back and a "Good job, Bro. Pretty wack down there on that plane, eh?? Trippy!" I disagree with that notion, because he knew exactly what he was perpetrating and that is when, in my opinion, God taps you on the shoulder. Hitler is dealing with it in some way or form in a dark corner of the universe at the least. Just my opinion, however, as I am not lame enough to state these things as fact.

DH

[Edited on 8/18/2008 by DerekFromCincinnati]

 

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  posted on 8/17/2008 at 07:22 PM
quote:
Kind of like following Osama to the "gates of Hell." Sounds great. Very John Wayneish. Now where exactly are those gates?


I would say that to find the "Gates Of Hell" get off US23 at Exit 54, turn west on State Road M-36, turn left onto Howell Street, then turn left onto Patterson Lake Road (District Road D-32).
You'll find the gates about four miles down the road.

Or, you could ask these nice ladies.

 

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  posted on 8/17/2008 at 09:39 PM
quote:
While McCain's answer was custom made for the crowd he was performing for, it kind of reveals his thought process, too. Warren asked if evil exists, and what could we do about it. McCain immediately zeroed in on al-Queda, almost trembling while he was talking, and said we should "defeat" evil.

Well, how are you going to do that? I bet most of the people at Saddleback believe the root of "evil" is Satan. Well, how does John McCain plan to defeat Satan, or just evil in general? That is like saying you are going to "defeat" terrorism. It sounds great to the fear-based crowd. But doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Kind of like following Osama to the "gates of Hell." Sounds great. Very John Wayneish. Now where exactly are those gates?

I thought John McCain sounded very hawkish, which is what he was trying to d. I'm guessing that after 8 years of Bush, that is not what the American people are looking for.


You can't "defeat evil." You can only recognize it. Attempt to contain it and react to it. But you also can't deny it. Hitler did not exist because of legitimate grievances or anything else curable by modern diplomacy. Hitler was evil.

 

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  posted on 8/17/2008 at 10:27 PM
That's my point. Obama said we must "confront" evil. His reply was a little more thoughtful and realistic. McCain got real fierce-looking, and said we must defeat evil. It doesn't even make sense.

As for your reply, Derek, you read an awful lot into what I posted. I didn't say evil doesn't exist. I have said before, and I believe it, that it is part of the human condition, something we have created that exists in the physical realm. Try not to get too carried away with your imagination.

You might try actually reading some of the books you like to run down. You might learn something.

 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 12:46 AM
quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/us/politics/17elect.html?bl&ex=121920 4800&en=9d415a98fe5b8c75&ei=5087%0A

August 17, 2008
Seeing Tougher Race, Allies Ask Obama to Make ‘Hope’ Specific
By PATRICK HEALY
As Senator Barack Obama prepares to accept the Democratic presidential nomination next week, party leaders in battleground states say the fight ahead against Senator John McCain looks tougher than they imagined, with Mr. Obama vulnerable on multiple fronts despite weeks of cross-country and overseas campaigning.

These Democrats — 15 governors, members of Congress and state party leaders — say Mr. Obama has yet to convert his popularity among many Americans into solutions to crucial electoral challenges: showing ownership of an issue, like economic stewardship or national security; winning over supporters of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton; and minimizing his race and experience level as concerns for voters.

Mr. Obama has run for the last 18 months as the candidate of hope. Yet party leaders — while enthusiastic about Mr. Obama and his state-by-state campaign operations — say he must do more to convince the many undecided Democrats and independents that he would address their financial anxieties rather than run, by and large, as an agent of change — given that change, they note, is not an issue.

“I particularly hope he strengthens his economic message — even Senator Obama can speak more clearly and specifically about the kitchen-table, bread-and-butter issues like high energy costs,” said Gov. Ted Strickland of Ohio. “It’s fine to tell people about hope and change, but you have to have plenty of concrete, pragmatic ideas that bring hope and change to life.”

Or, in the blunter words of Gov. Phil Bredesen, Democrat of Tennessee: “Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.”

Obama advisers say he has made significant headway defining his positions on issues like tougher trade policies, the links between new energy sources and job creation and projecting American leadership abroad. At the same time, his trip last month to Iraq, Afghanistan and Europe helped reassure voters about his experience, they said, and his agreement to a roll-call vote on Mrs. Clinton’s candidacy at the convention should bring her disappointed supporters into the fold.

Moreover, the Obama campaign has started running negative advertisements against Mr. McCain in battleground states — often without announcing them beforehand. The reason, Obama aides say, is to try to convince voters that Mr. McCain is barely different than President Bush through a day or two of uncontested advertisements — until the Republicans learn about them and begin to counter the ads.

Yet these advisers also acknowledge that the Obama phenomenon — the candidacy that helped inspire record voter registrations and turnout during the primaries — has come down to earth in a divided, economically stressed nation. Even though political analysts say that the economic conditions favor the Democrats in this election, and Mr. Bush’s unpopularity could hurt Republicans, Mr. Obama has not broken away from Mr. McCain in polling — a reflection, in part, of the huge numbers of undecided voters across party lines.

“Democrats should take a deep breath and realize that there are a group of voters who won’t make up their mind about a candidate until deep in the fall,” said David Plouffe, Mr. Obama’s campaign manager. “And there are 18 states that are battlegrounds for a reason, and they’ll be decided by 2 to 4 points. I don’t care about national polls.”

A New York Times/CBS News poll last month found the race between Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain to be a statistical dead heat, not unlike where Senator John Kerry and Mr. Bush stood in a Times/CBS News poll in July 2004. The poll four years ago was conducted after Mr. Kerry, the Democratic nominee, picked Senator John Edwards as his running mate, yet before both the party conventions and the most intense period of political attacks on Mr. Kerry’s war service record as skipper of a Swift boat in Vietnam.

The McCain campaign has sought to turn Mr. Obama’s celebrity against him by portraying the freshman senator as out of his depth in crises like Russia’s invasion of Georgia. As Mr. Obama was in Hawaii last week, Mr. McCain presented himself as a man-at-the-ready, opining daily about Russia, as well as repeatedly invoking action verbs like “drill” in pledging to address high fuel prices.

To a considerable extent, political analysts say, the closeness of the race at this stage reflects the fact that many voters are not paying attention to it, after the long, wearying primary season. Many Democrats pointed to the election of 1980 when voters, choosing between a relatively inexperienced former governor, Ronald Reagan, and an unpopular incumbent, Jimmy Carter, finally flocked to Mr. Reagan at the end after resolving whatever qualms they had about him.

But some Republicans disputed that analogy, saying the difficulty Mr. Obama faces getting traction in public opinion polls reflects the country’s reservations about this relative newcomer to national politics — both because he has little experience in national security but also, inevitably, because of his race.

“I think Senator Obama is a motivational speaker, but at the end of the day I don’t think that will translate into votes, and certainly not the image of strength that Ronald Reagan had,” said Jim Greer, the chairman of the Florida Republican Party.

“Florida has not yet been locked down by either candidate, or all but won by either candidate, but I think Obama’s inability to prove his experience or prove that he owns a political issue far more than McCain is a real problem for him,” Mr. Greer said.

In response, several Democrats said that choosing a seasoned party leader as his running mate would help Mr. Obama in the fall if he is unable to fully allay voters’ uncertainty that a one-term senator is ready for the presidency.

“The one area he still needs credibility in is experience, and picking an Evan Bayh or a Joe Biden as vice president would help a lot with that,” said John B. Breaux, a former Democratic senator from Louisiana. “It wouldn’t be bad if he came out early and said who his secretary of defense and secretary of state would be — that would address and stabilize the concerns about his experience.”

Mr. Obama and his aides made several strategic decisions this summer that had clear payoffs, yet also carried some risks that could play out in the general election.

He quit the public campaign finance system and built a formidable bank account for his campaign, while the Clintons and their supporters still smarted from her loss and grew frustrated that he did not do more to help pay down her campaign debt. He traveled overseas for a week, and was widely praised for his statesmanlike bearing, yet Republicans derided him as vainglorious for holding a huge rally in Berlin. And while Mr. Obama kept a low profile during his Hawaiian vacation, Mr. McCain sought to burnish his image on national security by responding to the Georgian crisis.

Some Democrats said Mr. Obama must still demonstrate that he would be a more effective president than Mr. McCain, and that he could unite the Democratic Party before its convention. Jane Kidd, the party leader in Georgia — where Mr. Obama is hoping black support will help him succeed where other northern Democratic nominees have failed — said Mr. Obama had a good deal more work to do to win over Clinton supporters as well as white voters who are loath to support a black candidate.

“In rural parts of Georgia and the South, there is still some fear about people who look different from themselves,” Ms. Kidd said. “And there’s also healing left to do among women who wanted to see the day that a woman was elected president,”

Mr. Bredesen, of Tennessee, said that while the Democrats had little chance of carrying his state — the Obama camp is sending Mr. Bredesen to campaign in other states — Mr. Obama could still take steps to appeal to undecided Democrats there that might increase his chances elsewhere.

“I would really like to see him do things in Tennessee that would help in other working-class and blue-collar places, like Ohio,” Mr. Bredesen said. “Job security and health care are huge here. He needs to come to the aisle of Home Depot and show them that a Harvard graduate — which I am as well — knows how to help them.”

Gov. Bill Ritter of Colorado, the host of next week’s Democratic National Convention, said Mr. Obama needed to hone and amplify his plan to create more jobs if he wants to woo undecided independent voters, who make up the largest bloc of the electorate in the swing state.

“His message is the right one, but he needs to turn up the volume and sharpen it a bit because these are voters who care a great, great deal about the future of the economy,” Mr. Ritter said. “He has to convince them he is ready for that huge task.”


 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 08:09 AM
Have to agree with Gerson, that McCain came off looking much better than Obama at the Saddleback Forum. Obama shot himself in the foot with the evangelicals with his "above my pay grade" comment, especially when they start examing what Obama's policies on abortions would be (basically Obama supports EVERY pro-choice recommendation). McCain IMHO finally sealed the deal with many evangelicals (where he's had many problems getting their support) by saying " I will be a pro-life president, and this presidency will have pro-life policies." Now does this mean that if McCain were President that he would try and reverse "Roe vs Wade"? No it doesn't, but it thus indicate to me, that McCain would "hold the line" in regards to loosing restrictions on abortions.

quote:
McCain's New Hope
The Candidate Shines at Saddleback Forum
By Michael Gerson
Monday, August 18, 2008

It is now clear why Barack Obama has refused John McCain's offer of joint town hall appearances during the fall campaign. McCain is obviously better at them.

Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Civil Forum on the Presidency -- two hours on Saturday night evenly divided between the relaxed, tieless candidates -- was expected to be a sideshow. McCain and Obama would make their specialized appeals to evangelicals as if they were an interest group such as organized labor or the National Rifle Association. Evangelicals would demonstrate, in turn, that they are not rubes and know-nothings. And Americans would turn en masse to watch the Olympics.

What took place instead under Warren's precise and revealing questioning was the most important event so far of the 2008 campaign -- a performance every voter should seek out on the Internet and watch.

First, the forum previewed the stylistic battle lines of the contest ahead, and it should give Democrats pause. Obama was fluent, cool and cerebral -- the qualities that made Adlai Stevenson interesting but did not make him president. Obama took care to point out that he had once been a professor at the University of Chicago, but that bit of biography was unnecessary. His whole manner smacks of chalkboards and campus ivy. Issues from stem cell research to the nature of evil are weighed, analyzed and explained instead of confronted.

This approach has a genuine appeal to some voters, especially of a more liberal bent, who believe there is a nuance shortage in American life. But on Saturday night it did not compare well with McCain, who was decisive, passionate and surprisingly personal. The candidate who once seemed incapable of the confessional style of politics talked at length of Vietnam experiences and his adopted daughter from Bangladesh. Asked by Warren about his greatest moral failure, McCain's response -- "the failure of my first marriage" -- had an abrupt and disarming authenticity. The account of his hardest decision -- refusing release from captivity during the Vietnam War ahead of others who had been imprisoned longer -- remains shocking in its valor. And McCain's habit of understatement -- he described the excruciating rope torture he experienced in Vietnam as "very uncomfortable" -- makes his stories even more effective.

Second, the Warren forum demonstrated how difficult it will be for Obama to appeal to religious and conservative voters as the campaign proceeds. His outreach to evangelical voters is obviously sincere, but he doesn't actually agree with them on much. In the course of the forum, he endorsed federal funding for embryonic stem cell research in spite of the existence of humane and promising alternatives. He proposed controversial government regulations on faith-based charities that accept federal funds. He attacked Justice Clarence Thomas as unqualified and defended his vote against the confirmation of the widely admired Chief Justice John Roberts. Obama deserves points for honesty on all these issues, but it is possible to be honestly off-putting.

Obama's response on abortion -- the issue that remains his largest obstacle to evangelical support -- bordered on a gaffe. Asked by Warren at what point in its development a baby gains "human rights," Obama said that such determinations were "above my pay grade" -- a silly answer to a sophisticated question. If Obama is genuinely unsure about this matter, he (and the law) should err in favor of protecting innocent life. If Obama believes that a baby in the womb lacks human rights, he should say so -- pro-choice men and women must affirm (as many sincerely do) that developing life has a lesser status. Here the professor failed the test of logic.


For many evangelicals, the theoretical Obama -- the Obama of hope and unity -- is intriguing, even appealing. But this opinion is not likely to improve upon closer inspection of his policy views. Obama is one of those rare political figures who seems to grow smaller the closer we approach him. "I want people to know me well," Obama said at the forum. Among religious conservatives, that may not be an advantage.

Finally, McCain's performance at the Warren forum helps change the political psychology going into the conventions. Republicans have spent the past few weeks pleasantly surprised at the closeness of the presidential race. But they have generally chalked this up to Obama's weakness, not McCain's strength. After Saturday night, even Republicans most skeptical of McCain must conclude: "Perhaps we aren't doomed after all."

Of such small hopes are large upsets made.



[Edited on 8/18/2008 by sibwlkr]

 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 08:25 AM
quote:
Evangelical leaders respond to Saddleback Forum

Saturday night, Senators Barack Obama and John McCain responded to questions from Dr. Rick Warren, author of “A Purpose Driven Life,” and pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California. Following the two hour event, evangelical leaders from across the United States gathered to discuss their reactions to the presumptive presidential candidates’ responses.

During the forum, Dr. Warren first posted questions to Sen. Obama covering the topics such as his personal values, abortion, marriage, education, stem cell research, and his vision for the United States; before asking Sen. McCain the same set of questions.

Warren noted in a press release, “I don't happen to agree with everything either of the candidates teach or believe, but they both care deeply about America. They're both patriots and they have very different views on how our nation can be strengthened. We've got to learn to disagree without demonizing each other and we need to restore civility in our civil discourse and that's the goal of the Saddleback Civil Forum."

Following the event, a teleconference, sponsored by News Guests.com gathered evangelicals from around the country to discuss the presumptive candidates’ responses.

Abortion

The evangelical leaders began the discussion by focusing on what the presumptive presidential candidates plan to do in regards to the abortion issue.

Moderator of the teleconference, Martha Zoller emphasized that “Obama gave a very long answer to the question, and did so by ‘not saying anything. He’s also got the abortion numbers wrong within that, as well as using old numbers, you know, that Hillary Clinton had debunked a year ago’.”

Sen. Obama answered the question, "At what point is a baby entitled to human rights?" by responding, that determining when live begins is "above my pay grade.” He then stated, "I am pro-choice because, ultimately, I don't think women make these decisions casually. Rather, they wrestle with these things in profound ways."

Obama added that he is in favor of limits on late-term abortions.

Sen. McCain, on the other hand, quickly responded that life begins "At the moment of conception. I will be a pro-life president, and this presidency will have pro-life policies.

Janet Folger, president and founder of Faith2Action noted that “John McCain, without hesitation, bang, life begins at conception, he gets it. The judges that he would appoint, he made it very, very clear. I think he also resonated with beyond the base, to those who are pro-life even within the Democratic Party. I think it was exactly what needed to be done. He said it exactly the way it needed to be said.”

Did McCain ‘close the deal’ with evangelicals?

The leaders participating in the teleconference next discussed whether or not Sen. McCain, “closed the deal with evangelicals.”

Tom Minnery, Vice-President of Focus on the Family, noted that “Senator McCain helped himself. He just will not shake loose of his beliefs that he’s held for a long time on favoring research on embryonic stem cells. But [as soon as] – tonight, he hastened to the safer ground of the promise of adult stem cells as producing progress and disease research. So, he knows that he’s on thin ice with that. But, on the larger pro-life issue, he’s certainly presented himself quite properly as strongly pro-life. So, that was a good step for him.”

Bishop Harry Jackson, Sr., Pastor of Hope Christian Church in Washington, D.C. and author of “The Black Contract with America on Moral Values,” added, “I think that Senator McCain closed the deal. I think he made a clear contract between himself and Barack Obama. Many evangelicals will vote for him.”

However, Bishop Jackson noted that if McCain chooses a pro-choice vice president, evangelicals may support Obama. “I think the distinction that we heard tonight was clear, was decisive, was effective. That would be muddied if he mixes the ticket in some way and gets somebody who could become the President – in the event that something terrible would happen to McCain – who would go contrary to the clarity, the focus, and the energy with which McCain came forth tonight.”

Traditional marriage

The group next tackled Obama’s stance on marriage. During the Saddleback Forum, both candidates agreed that marriage is between a man and a woman, however, Obama clarified that he is still for civil unions for same sex couples.

Michael Foust with Bandiss Press asked, “[Obama] says he supports marriage between a man and a woman, but of course, he says he opposed the marriage amendment in California…do you see some conflict there?”

Minnery responded, that there is conflict in Obama’s position. “You cannot square the circle as he is trying to do. Either you support marriage or you do not. He says one thing. By his actions, he indicates another thing. And that answer…shows up the hypocrisy in his position on that issue.”

“I think it would be more refreshing for him if he would just be honest about it and say he favors gay marriage,” Minnery continued. “He cannot do that, because the American people do not favor gay marriage. And so, he needs to keep twisting and turning, diving on that issue. And it is hypocritical.”

Folger added that in McCain’s answer, “he said that he would not only support – he would support state’s definitions of marriage, the defense in his own State of Arizona, for example, where he has been stalwart leader for marriage as a union between one man and one woman. But he also made it very clear. Here’s the distinction. What John McCain said tonight is his position, that he says that the Supreme Court of California was wrong.”

Folger continued, “What Barack Obama left out tonight is that he actually publicly praised the Supreme Court of California. He said he “supported” the California decision. That’s something that redefined marriage, that undermines the institution that is the foundation of society. And Barack Obama is wrong on it, and that did not come out as clearly as it should have.”

Who won the debate?

Finally, the evangelical leaders discussed who they viewed as a winner.

The group unanimously supported Sen. McCain. Minnery noted that McCain’s “answers were sharp. I think he has thought a whole lot more about leadership. I was particularly impressed by his answer on people he admired. He went right to General Petraeus, who did one of the most remarkable military campaigns in recent memory. And I contrast that to Senator Obama, who when asked who influences him the most, he mentioned his wife, he mentioned his grandmother – those are safe nominations.”

Bishop Jackson also chose McCain as the clear winner, “He got energy, he got obviously many more applauses from the people in the room...But, I say this with a caveat. I think he won – if he can continue with the kind of fervor and integration of issues and faith, I think that he may be on to a new high in his campaign. If he retreats to a place of not wanting to talk anymore about these kinds of things, I think it will not help him. So, tremendous win tonight. I think it's a new chapter. I hope it continues.”


 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 08:31 AM
I missed these sessions but will seek them out on the 'net

If McCain is within 3-5 points of Obama going into the election, Obama has a lot to be nervous about. The primaries demonstrated that pollster's data showing Obama with leads in many races ended up not being as large once the votes were counted. I think there's a percentage of people who are telling the pollsters they'll vote for him, but when they're alone with their vote, they do exactly the opposite.

 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 08:44 AM
great, 2 dick's in one room
 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 08:54 AM
McCain kicked Barry O.s butt at this thing and now the Obama team is floating the story, as faithfully reported by Andrea Mitchell of Pravda, er, NBC, that McCain somehow knew the questions in advance. They offer no proof nor suggest how, but "it's not the weight of the evidence but rather the seriousness of the charge."

 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 09:04 AM
Btw here's a link to the transcription of the Saddleback Forum.

http://www.rickwarrennews.com/transcript/

 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 11:01 AM
Lets' try to keep this in perspective.

Obama did a very courageous thing by going into an evangelical church, where he already knew that most of the people there disagree with his views. There was really no way he could "win" this deal, because if he says what he thinks, they will disagree, and if he says what they want to hear, he's a flip-flopper. He knew he wasn't going to help himself very much here, but he went anyway, and I applaud him.

John McCain was playing to his home crowd, and he had everything to gain by going in there and fiercely declaring he would be a "pro-life" president. John McCain gave a masterful performance. He said exactly what the home crowd wanted to hear, and he probably means some of it.

But most of the people in America aren't freaking out over the "terrorist" threat, nor are they wringing their hands about the abortion issue. That issue only belongs to a small group, none of who are even affected by it. It is a "moral issue" they've created, but most people don't care. The church crowd may think Obaba shot himself in the foot with the abortion answer, but most people would answer similarly, and don't really care.

This may have helped McCain with the religious right. He rightly called them agents of intolerance before he found out in 2000 he can't win without them. Now he is actively kissing up to them, trying to make them think he is one of them, and I think he helped himself yesterday. They want to believe it.

If y'all think some of us think they are having to choose between two evils, think how the Christians must feel. And watch how quickly they embrace McCain now that he has said the right things.

I wonder what he meant by "pro-life policies." No more death penalty? No more wars?

Btw, I think McCain did hear the questions when Obama was asked them.

 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 02:24 PM
quote:
Btw, I think McCain did hear the questions when Obama was asked them.


You bet he did. Not only did Rick Warren lie, but McCains camp did too. Color me surprised.

 

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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 02:35 PM
quote:
quote:
Btw, I think McCain did hear the questions when Obama was asked them.


You bet he did. Not only did Rick Warren lie, but McCains camp did too. Color me surprised.


Wearing an ear-wire is sooo four years ago.

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2008 at 02:35 PM
First of all, I am pro-choice, in that the government shouldn't be involved in such a personal decision. But when it gets into second and late term abortions, that I s when it gets ugly. With Obama at the Warren forum, he was asked "At what point does a baby get human rights?" and his answer was "whether you look at it from a theological perspective ot a scientific perspective, answering thatr question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade." The reason why that is pertinent is Obama's past votes. IN a recent editorial, Pat Buchanan put it this way,

"Thrice in the Illinois legislature, Obama helped block a bill that was designed solely to protect the life of infants already born, and outside the womb, who had miraculously survived the attempt to kill them during an abortion. Thrice, Obama voted to let doctors and nurses allow these tiny human beings die of neglect and be tossed out with the medical waste. " - http://tinyurl.com/5a475n

Some folks don't have a problem with it. For instance, didn't I read that there are those among us that would tell us as fact that a late term baby, or fetus, has no soul in it because God knows that it will be aborted?? Think about that - of a woman decides to abort a baby in the third term, whether it is seven months, eight months, or a week before it is to be born, apparently it has no soul in it because of the impending abortion which God knows is coming. Despite the fact that it had brain waves several months ago, has had a formed brain with a personality for at least a couple of months, would have been able to live outside of the womb months ago, is moving inside the body and is ready to go - that baby has no soul.

Number one- where does this information come from?

Number two-prove it.

Number three- when exactly does the soul enter the baby's body?

Number four- what book is this notion found in??

Now, Obama did say at the forum the other night, now that he is running for president - "I am in favor, for example, of limits on late term abortion if there is an exemption for the mother's health." I agree with this, and I hope he means it. His past voting record says otherwise, but we'll see. There is a middle ground.

The problem with Obama's performance wasn't that he was evasive while trying to suck up to the religious right, but that he was obviously more worried about not saying anything that would upset the Left.

McCain did well simply because he had short, direct answers to the questions, which counteracts his embarrassing attempt to 'be one of the guys' at Sturgis where he fumbled his lines left and right.

Then there is the criticism on here about the Right saying that President Bush was 'chosen by God,' or 'God's choice,' or however you want to put it. Well, apparently the great congressional leader Nance Pelosi has some thoughts on that notion as at last night's Obama fundraiser in California (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Obama_I_will_win.html) Nance introduced him saiyng that Obama " is a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

Wow. Heavy stuff.

DH

 

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  posted on 8/19/2008 at 01:53 PM
If God didnt want to allow abortions, wouldnt he just make it so?

 

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