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Author: Subject: TP: May offend or be controversial. Perhaps, we should amend the Constitution to....

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2007 at 10:46 PM
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I suppose before one bashes liberals, one might define which type of liberals is being referred to.

Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal. Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government. All liberals as well as some adherents of other political ideologies support the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.

Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion. Social progressivism, the belief that traditions do not carry any inherent value and social practices ought to be continuously adjusted for the greater benefit of humanity, is a common component of liberal ideology. Liberalism is also strongly associated with the belief that human society should be organized in accordance with certain unchangeable and inviolable rights. Different schools of liberalism are based on different conceptions of human rights, but there are some rights that all liberals support, including rights to life, liberty, and property.

Within liberalism, there are two major currents of thought that often compete over the use of the term "liberal" and have been known to clash on many issues.

Classical liberals emphasize free private enterprise, individual property rights, laissez-faire economic policy, and freedom of contract, and opposes the welfare state. Classical liberals support equality before the law, but hold that economic inequality, arising from competition in the free market, does not justify wealth redistribution by governments.

Social liberals advocate a greater degree of government influence to protect individual rights (in a broad sense), often in the form of anti-discrimination laws. Social liberals support universal education, and many also support the provision of welfare, including benefits for the unemployed, housing for the homeless, and medical care for the sick, all supported by progressive taxation.




You know from other posts I consider myself a small "l" classical liberal. I don't think the people today who think of themselves as Liberals are very liberal. My biggest problem with "Liberals" is not big government vs. small government or anything philosophical. It's that they tend to simply regard their opponents as evil and not truly enage in a discussion of ideas. It's pretty sophomoric to state that "rural gun lovers care more about their own happiness than stopping black murders in inner cities" as if it's one or the other. Yet I see that as pretty typical.


As long as I have my shotgun for deer season, I could care less if a Crip pops a cap in some Blood's ass.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2007 at 10:47 PM
You know from other posts I consider myself a small "l" classical liberal. I don't think the people today who think of themselves as Liberals are very liberal. My biggest problem with "Liberals" is not big government vs. small government or anything philosophical.

Doug just for the record I used the L liberal for emphasis only. I am a classic liberal too.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2007 at 10:50 PM
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As a liberal white southern female gun owner I take offense to this. I purchased my guns to protect myself from "Ted Nugent".


I invited Ted over to hunt with us.







I heard ted nugent went hunting for his head....... and found it up his a$$

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2007 at 10:54 PM
So far Clay and Pops are winning for the best posts here.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2007 at 10:56 PM
Some of you guys know Im a firm believer in the 2nd Amdendment (the whole constitution really, if you want to get right down to it), and I hate to admit it, but I agree wholeheartedly with Derek in this regard. Its stupid for a few idiots/criminals to be the catalyst for change that affects those that would never harm anyone, are pursing a tradition of safe gun ownership, hunters etc. If the problem is one of gun violence, I would say its because criminals are using guns in CRIMES. The gun isnt hurting anyone, just as cars arent hurting anyone as results of car accidents. People are involved in both equations. Choices are involved in both. As such, people should be held accountable for those decisions. It might be hokey, but its true: When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. These laws do not affect criminals, they affect the everyday law abiding gun owner and would-be victims.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 12:02 AM
I believe in the second amendment and I certainly respect the necessity of having a well armed militia, I'm not so certain we need armor piercing bullets for hunters, but I don't see restricting the right to own guns. I do take issue with the portion of the statement about liberals. Liberals aren't responsible for everything wrong with society today.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 03:22 AM
That phrase "liberalism is a mental disorder" came from michael weiner aka "savage" the male version of ann coulter [who I believe suffers from various psychosis] and they scream the term "liberal" at anyone who disagrees with the current pieces of sh!t in the white house right now. I am never going to be accused of being a conservative, but I have no problem with owning a shot-gun and pistol to protect myself and family. but, why would any citizen need a machine-gun or armour piercing bullets?.
 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 07:24 AM
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I live in a rural area.

I own more than one gun.

I'm white.




You might be a redneck?

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 10:25 AM
I have guns because I like them. I enjoy shooting them. I enjoy showing my children how to safely handle them. They enjoy them too.


There is no difference in a gun, knife, baseball bat, saw, pipe, hammer. Its the human holding it that makes the difference. Most folks dont worry when a hunter has a gun, or a fisherman has a knife, or a carpenter has a hammer or saw. Put them in a criminals hand then you need to worry.

You want to stop crime. Build more prisons. Put em in Jail, dont let em out.
You want to control problem kids in school, build some school camps. Put the violent ones there. When they get out of class they go to a cell. Make them work to pay their time in lockup. I thought when you commited a felony, you lost your rights. Examples need to be set. Criminals and gangs see their friends do crimes,
go to jail and get out to do it all again............If you commit a violent crime, you should never get out. Society today cant take that chance.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 11:16 AM
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Liberal, conservative, whatever....

I'm guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms according to the 2nd amendment of the US constitution.

You want my guns? Try and take them.





That about sums it up.

Actually, as far as the liberal thing, yes, absolutely they are more apt to try and take your guns away. But I should clarify it by referring to it as I should- the modern day liberal. Old school liberals believed in not only freedom, but the spread of freedom in the world being a good thing as in Wilson, FDR, and JFK.

And, country folks only wanted a fair shake back in the day from the robber barons. I'm from West Virginia, and my grandpa was a coal miner who lost his whole left arm in the Otsego Mine in Wyoming County. Go and look up Matewan incident, or what it took to get any kind of workers rights in the mines. The striking miners were shot at and beat by the hard ass Pinkerton and Baldwin-Felts agents, but they had their guns as well. Look up Matewan, Mother Jones, and the Battle of Blair Mountain, for instance.

Old school liberals believed that if you got assistance from the government back in the day, you should and could work for it in the WPA and CCC. Try getting that done in this day and age.

Never trust a government that would try and totally disarm its population. When communist Soviet leader Gorbachev marched his troops into the Baltics in 1990 or so, the first pronouncement he made was for the citizens to turn in all their guns.

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You want my guns? Try and take them.
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If I tried, would you shoot me? Actually, don't answer that.


Naw. Just laugh.

[Edited on 9/4/2007 by DerekFromCincinnati]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 12:58 PM
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Don't worry I wouldn't come near your guns Derek. I know how important they are to your manhood. What would you stroke at night if you didn't have your .22?




More like an RPG, bro.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 01:10 PM
quote:
More like an RPG, bro.



Really Petite Gadget ?

 

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If we practice and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless. -Mahatma Gandhi.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 01:13 PM
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Some of you guys know Im a firm believer in the 2nd Amdendment (the whole constitution really, if you want to get right down to it), and I hate to admit it, but I agree wholeheartedly with Derek in this regard. Its stupid for a few idiots/criminals to be the catalyst for change that affects those that would never harm anyone, are pursing a tradition of safe gun ownership, hunters etc. If the problem is one of gun violence, I would say its because criminals are using guns in CRIMES. The gun isnt hurting anyone, just as cars arent hurting anyone as results of car accidents. People are involved in both equations. Choices are involved in both. As such, people should be held accountable for those decisions. It might be hokey, but its true: When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. These laws do not affect criminals, they affect the everyday law abiding gun owner and would-be victims.
ST, you hit the proverbial nail on the head in bold font there.

Does anyone remember the movie, "And Justice For All?" There's a scene where the judge, played by Jack Warden, says to Al Pacino's character;

picking up a law book, "This is law,"

picking up a pistol, "This is order."

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 01:42 PM
quote:
quote:
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More like an RPG, bro.
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Really Petite Gadget ?


Good one, oh former short haired one.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 01:44 PM
quote:
quote:
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More like an RPG, bro.
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Really Petite Gadget ?
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Good one, oh former short haired one.


Could be former former soon !

 

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If we practice and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless. -Mahatma Gandhi.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 01:53 PM
quote:
quote:
Some of you guys know Im a firm believer in the 2nd Amdendment (the whole constitution really, if you want to get right down to it), and I hate to admit it, but I agree wholeheartedly with Derek in this regard. Its stupid for a few idiots/criminals to be the catalyst for change that affects those that would never harm anyone, are pursing a tradition of safe gun ownership, hunters etc. If the problem is one of gun violence, I would say its because criminals are using guns in CRIMES. The gun isnt hurting anyone, just as cars arent hurting anyone as results of car accidents. People are involved in both equations. Choices are involved in both. As such, people should be held accountable for those decisions. It might be hokey, but its true: When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. These laws do not affect criminals, they affect the everyday law abiding gun owner and would-be victims.
ST, you hit the proverbial nail on the head in bold font there.

Does anyone remember the movie, "And Justice For All?" There's a scene where the judge, played by Jack Warden, says to Al Pacino's character;

picking up a law book, "This is law,"

picking up a pistol, "This is order."


"What I'm trying to say Callahan is that that man had rights"

"Well I'm all broken up about that man's rights"

-Dirty Harry, one of the all-time greats

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 03:51 PM
I'm with Mr Van Zant on this one - "Handguns were made for killing , They ain't no good for nuthin' else " It should be hard for someone to get a hand gun license. It's hard ( but not impossible ) to be walking down the street concealing a Rifle or Shot gun..........(that's my .02 , carry on...)

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 03:56 PM
I don't hunt because I don't believe in killing something I have no intention of eating....I don't fish for the same reason. I used to shoot skeet and we have shot guns. I have a rifle that my father gave me and a pistol I got from my cousin's estate. I don't have bullets for either. I do have shot gun shells and yes, guns, other than for competition sports, are for killing. Anyone gets through my window who doesn't belong gets shot....and I will shoot to kill.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 04:12 PM
quote:
quote:
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More like an RPG, bro.
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Really Petite Gadget ?
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Good one, oh former short haired one.
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Could be former former soon !


Whoa! As in like that pic you showed me of the baseball game in Japan??

Are we talkiing bangs? The girls would love to see you in bangs. Go for it.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 04:15 PM
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Aint my problem the dumb aass's are blowin each other away.Goes to show the mentality of the gangta-rap generation.Yo--Dog-wassup- MO-FO,,grab that crotch,twist your hat sideways like some damm moron ..And to think this is considered cool.Britches hangin down to your ankles...lmfao.Stupid jerks are constantly pullin em up for em to just fall back down,,,go figure that one.
As the old sayin goes
"I'll give up my guns ,when they pry my cold dead fingers from around em"



[Edited on 9/4/2007 by LUKE]

Jesus Christ, Luke. I just spit up my 'forty' all over the computer screen laughing my ass off!

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 04:54 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
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More like an RPG, bro.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----




Really Petite Gadget ?


Good one, oh former short haired one.


Well, being of the Dungeons and Dragons, 1st generation of hard-core gamers age group, I assumed Derek was involved in a Roll-Playing Game, ya know . . . eleven-sided dice and little pewter figures and all . . . Dude, your White Wizard cannot dissolve my Djihn with only 84 power points . . . not unless he has the dagger of Cadabra!


Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 07:34 PM
quote:
Well, being of the Dungeons and Dragons, 1st generation of hard-core gamers age group, I assumed Derek was involved in a Roll-Playing Game, ya know . . . eleven-sided dice and little pewter figures and all . . . Dude, your White Wizard cannot dissolve my Djihn with only 84 power points . . . not unless he has the dagger of Cadabra!


Not that there's anything wrong with that.


Nope. I'm afraid that I was in the Keds Decoder Ring generation.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 08:29 PM
quote:


There is no difference in a gun, knife, baseball bat, saw, pipe, hammer. Its the human holding it that makes the difference. Most folks dont worry when a hunter has a gun, or a fisherman has a knife, or a carpenter has a hammer or saw. Put them in a criminals hand then you need to worry.

You want to stop crime. Build more prisons. Put em in Jail, dont let em out.
You want to control problem kids in school, build some school camps. Put the violent ones there. When they get out of class they go to a cell. Make them work to pay their time in lockup. I thought when you commited a felony, you lost your rights. Examples need to be set. Criminals and gangs see their friends do crimes,
go to jail and get out to do it all again............If you commit a violent crime, you should never get out. Society today cant take that chance.


No wonder I like you so much.....

And I hate guns, but have a few for the snakes that crawl on the ground and the ones that walk on two feet.

I was always taught that if you pick up a gun, you should shoot it. And that is aht I taiught my children, especially living out in the woods where the occasional moron would drive up. My sermon to the kids where...Get the gun when seeing a vehicle drive up...warn them if they got out of the car no t o walk past the bumper...Shoot them as until they stop walking....Call 911. We'll clean up the mess when we Daddy gets home....


[Edited on 9/5/2007 by bluedad]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 09:27 PM
My thing is not the merits of gun control. It's that the author has decided thatthere is a direct connection betweent he selfishness of the "gun nuts" and the minorities who are dying. Thus, it's the fault of the racist rednecks that inner city youth are dying. No other conclusion is possible or necessary. This makes about as much sense as "All men are mortal. Socrates was a man. Therefore all men are Socrates." (That's Woody Allen in Love and Death by the way) There is no reasoned argument anymore. It's all platitudes.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 9/4/2007 at 09:50 PM
quote:
quote:


There is no difference in a gun, knife, baseball bat, saw, pipe, hammer. Its the human holding it that makes the difference. Most folks dont worry when a hunter has a gun, or a fisherman has a knife, or a carpenter has a hammer or saw. Put them in a criminals hand then you need to worry.

You want to stop crime. Build more prisons. Put em in Jail, dont let em out.
You want to control problem kids in school, build some school camps. Put the violent ones there. When they get out of class they go to a cell. Make them work to pay their time in lockup. I thought when you commited a felony, you lost your rights. Examples need to be set. Criminals and gangs see their friends do crimes,
go to jail and get out to do it all again............If you commit a violent crime, you should never get out. Society today cant take that chance.


No wonder I like you so much.....

And I hate guns, but have a few for the snakes that crawl on the ground and the ones that walk on two feet.

I was always taught that if you pick up a gun, you should shoot it. And that is aht I taiught my children, especially living out in the woods where the occasional moron would drive up. My sermon to the kids where...Get the gun when seeing a vehicle drive up...warn them if they got out of the car no t o walk past the bumper...Shoot them as until they stop walking....Call 911. We'll clean up the mess when we Daddy gets home....


[Edited on 9/5/2007 by bluedad]





Man!...............I hope I never accidently pull into Your Driveway!

 
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