Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Teach yourself... Learn from someone else?

Peach Pro





Posts: 384
(384 all sites)
Registered: 1/21/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 09:14 AM
The Desiree Bassett thread got me thinking... That's always dangerous. Anyway, what do you think about self taught guitar players vs. lessons from a "pro"?

It seems to me that all my favorite guitar players are all self taught, unless I'm mistaken. SRV, Jimi, Duane, Dickey (although I know he came from a musical family), Clapton, and of course Derek (but same thing with Dickey). Guys like Steve Vai, Eric Johnson, Joe S. just don't do it for me. Technical wizardry on a guitar is completely lost on me. I have always thought self taught guitar players sound better and play with more emotion than guitarist who are more "technically" sound.

Thoughts and opinions??? And if any of the guitarists that I named above are a result of guitar lessons then please let me know. It may change my opinion.

Peace

 
Replies:

Peach Pro



Karma:
Posts: 329
(329 all sites)
Registered: 10/12/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 09:24 AM
I never took any lessons from pro teachers, on the other hand, every time I play with someone, I consider that a lesson
I think it all depends on what you DO with the things you learn, if you learn by lessons from a pro, thats fine, if you learn from watching and listening to musicians you like and take the chances to play all you can with as many people as possible, thats fine too.
Did that make any sense at all?

[Edited on 8/11/2006 by Peter_K]

[Edited on 8/11/2006 by Peter_K]

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 16610
(16610 all sites)
Registered: 6/4/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 09:29 AM
My 7 year old is taking lessons from a teacher and it seems tedious to me. I guess learning structure and all lends itself to that clean playing you spoke of. But, at his age it's tough eneough to get him to practice, so this is the right path for right now for him.

 

____________________


R.I.P. Hugh Duty


 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8718
(8718 all sites)
Registered: 11/12/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 09:41 AM
Kindofblue, everybody's both self-taught and not self-taught to a degree. Young Duane learned a lot from his older buddy Jim Shepley:

The cat that taught me how to play guitar lives in New Haven: Jim Shepley, Ol' Lightnin' Fingers.
The first number one, taking-care-of-business man in Daytona Beach, Florida.
The cat that had it all together if you wanted to learn anything.
If you wanted to play something right, you'd go to him and learn it.
The baddest cat.
A very influential cat in my life, also.
He's dynamite.
The smokin'est cat.
I can't even talk about him, he's so hip.
He glows in the dark.
He hung the moon and tells the sun when to come up.
Shep is smokin'.



"Backing the mighty Jim Shepley!"
Not sure, but probably
the Jim Shepley, accompanied by a Rich Dart

Also, see
http://www.florida-cracker.org/archives/002026.html

 

____________________
"This is an old true story;
this is called 'I Must Have Did Somebody Wrong.'
(I wonder who.)"

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2002
(2025 all sites)
Registered: 2/27/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 11:08 AM
derek started out with lessons.
then he had some "lessons" with jimmy herring and Col. Bruce Hampton.

i say get as many lessons by pros as possible. and buy books with CDs and DVDs as well. Why spend days trying to figure something out when you can figure it out in hours or minutes with help.

 

Peach Pro



Karma:
Posts: 384
(384 all sites)
Registered: 1/21/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 12:05 PM
quote:
Kindofblue, everybody's both self-taught and not self-taught to a degree. Young Duane learned a lot from his older buddy Jim Shepley:

The cat that taught me how to play guitar lives in New Haven: Jim Shepley, Ol' Lightnin' Fingers.
The first number one, taking-care-of-business man in Daytona Beach, Florida.
The cat that had it all together if you wanted to learn anything.
If you wanted to play something right, you'd go to him and learn it.
The baddest cat.
A very influential cat in my life, also.
He's dynamite.
The smokin'est cat.
I can't even talk about him, he's so hip.
He glows in the dark.
He hung the moon and tells the sun when to come up.
Shep is smokin'.



"Backing the mighty Jim Shepley!"
Not sure, but probably
the Jim Shepley, accompanied by a Rich Dart

Also, see
http://www.florida-cracker.org/archives/002026.html


Good point. I forgot about Duane's Jim Shep story.

Peace

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 515
(515 all sites)
Registered: 3/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 01:23 PM
As a drum set instructor, who plays on a professional level, and who teaches 50 students a week. I say it's always better to take lessons with someone who knows more than you. Being a full-time musician isn't the type of job that you can just put away, or go back to it later. It's with you 7 days a week 24 hours a day. You have to dedicate your life to it if you want to be good/great.

Just think of all the ABB tunes or other songs that you listen to on a regular basis. There's YEARS of playing behind EACH note, that I'm sorry it's just not going to come to anyone that fast.

When a new student of mine walks through the door I always ask them what are they willing to do to achieve their musical goals, and I cusomize each individual lesson plan for each individual student. Today we live in a very fast paced society, unfortunately just like the game of golf, music won't change for the person playing it, to be good or great or even outstanding playing a musical instrument is a life-time endeavor. It will never come quick and you should never be satisfied, if you ever do get satisfied please stop playing.

The bottom line here is study with someone who knows more than you and be patient with yourself and your own learning process, and most important, enjoy the journey of getting to each level.

 

____________________
You walk in through my back door...... honey drippin' from your mouth, like some Slackjaw Jezebel

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 485
(503 all sites)
Registered: 8/20/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 01:27 PM
I've always told my guitar students to utilise everything they can get their hands on- books,magazines,CD's,DVD's, tablature and lessons. But after you have been playing awhile, try to figure out a new song by ear as much as possible. This will be a big help later when you have to improvise lead parts,play a song you don't know on the spot, or sit in with musicians you don't know. Most of the good players I know started with lessons and eventually taught themselves by watching other good players.
 

Peach Pro



Karma:
Posts: 367
(367 all sites)
Registered: 8/2/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 01:32 PM
I played for 7-8 years before I took my first lesson. I wouldnt have done it any other way really. After jamming with my friends for that long, most of whom are better than me, I developed a style that was my own. I'm one of the better rhythm players I know, and don't really play like anyone else.

One thing that gave me was a desire to play a certain style. I started playing the guitar b/c I wanted to sound like duane and dickey. Now I don't play anything like them, and really don't practice on their music much. Liz Reed is the exception, but I play it much differently.

What teaching myself taught me was that I didn't need to play like everyone else. Now that I'm pretty accomplished rhythmically, I am taking lessons to play lead. Mostly bluegrass style, but that's the style of lead I wanted to learn and incorporate into my rock (read grateful dead) style playing.

It's worked for me. Get some chops down, learn what you want to learn, and then let somebody help you learn the things you need to fill in.

But that's just one way to do it. There's no best way.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 16323
(16532 all sites)
Registered: 5/26/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 01:44 PM
I taught myself drums 6 years ago. Just started banging away, heading to shows, picking up what people were doing. The best lessons were going to shows and just keying in on the drummers to see their tricks... and then what I did was combine my two favorite drummers styles, Matt Abts and Yonrico Scott... and waaa la. heh...in a versatile way.

Also playing with whoever you can no matter how horrible it might sound, it's experience to gain.. that will make you a better player. And being able to listen to those you're playing with, instead of out playing them.

I'm not sure thought with Guitars... some are born to play, and will pick it up naturally. Others who arn't cordinated well, will need lessons...then again theory isn't a bad thing to know, so at least take lessons to understand theory and what you're playing. Jimmy Herring went to school down in Atlanta, and I love his playing... same with many players. But I agree, I'm not very fond of Eric Johnson or Steve Vai. I vote "Self Taught"

[Edited on 8/11/2006 by ABBstillrockin04]

 

____________________

We're a winner and never let anybody say "boy, you can't make it!"

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 16323
(16532 all sites)
Registered: 5/26/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 01:47 PM
quote:
It will never come quick and you should never be satisfied, if you ever do get satisfied please stop playing.



That's a bold statement, and I like it ... mind if I use it?

 

____________________

We're a winner and never let anybody say "boy, you can't make it!"

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 515
(515 all sites)
Registered: 3/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 04:10 PM
not at all brother, not at all.

 

____________________
You walk in through my back door...... honey drippin' from your mouth, like some Slackjaw Jezebel

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 23558
(24060 all sites)
Registered: 1/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 04:48 PM
I taught myself how to play bass, and used a couple of Mel Bay books early on. Mostly what they taught me were the differences in major and minor scales. In my playing experiences, I began to recognize patterns, and that eventually helped me to play by ear better. Also, I picked up some stuff from guitar players I have played with over the years. Nashville numbers is a big help. If I am sitting in with a group and someone calls off a song that I am not familiar with, all I got to say is, "What key?," and they'll reply with, "It's in G, 1-4-5, starts on the 4." I know what to do from that point. I am to the point where lessons might have helped me with improvisational skills. I hesitate to go outside the safe bass line zone. A lot of drummers and guitar players will tell you they like their bass players solid and in the pocket, but it's cool to throw in a little run up the neck for some onion flavor with that meat and potatos bass line.

 

____________________

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9072
(9466 all sites)
Registered: 12/1/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 05:47 PM
BDOB wrote: "I hesitate to go outside the safe bass line zone. A lot of drummers and guitar players will tell you they like their bass players solid and in the pocket, but it's cool to throw in a little run up the neck for some onion flavor with that meat and potatos bass line."

I like that, Dave--onion flavor!

 

____________________
"You shouldn't confuse things that are popular with things that are really good"--paraphrasing Bob Dylan.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4627
(4695 all sites)
Registered: 4/13/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 06:08 PM
I was fortunate enough to have 3 really good teachers. My first guitar teacher use to hit me in the head with a pencil until the day my mom sat in for a lesson.....he never did that again.....But I survied him and I took lesson from one guy for about 5 years, Took classical lesson for about 3 and my college music teacher is who really opened my eyes to music and not just the guitar. The other two taught me guitar and some theory but when I took harmony/heory in college is when things really started happening between the doing and undrerstanding of what I was doing. I give guitar lessons and I too gear each lesson plan for each student. The hardest thing to get through is that they are learning a new language and just as it took you 1+ years to utter your first words and 3 - 5 before you could really put sentences together that they should be prepared for the same journey

 

____________________
Believin' is alright just don't believe in the wrong thing....Sonny Boy Williamson

 
E-Mail User

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 754
(754 all sites)
Registered: 3/13/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 06:12 PM
I think it depends.

Me personally, Iím self-taught and I regret it.

Most things in life, I got by/get by doing it my own way without using proper technique. It really limited me in guitar playing, in part because I have little to no musical ability; and in part because Iíve got some physical/health issues.

So from the perspective of learning proper physical technique, I wish I had lessons. (Iím not sure anyone could have penetrated my thick skull when it came down to music theory.)

Having said that, I do see how having lessons and focusing on becoming a technician can limit the passion/emotion in oneís playing, especially if one if musically gifted and creative.

I think not getting myself guitar lessons taught me one of my more valuable lessons in life. One of the reasons I did not take lessons is that I was so bad that I was embarrassed, and I did not think I could perform at the level an instructor would like. So the lesson is, its OK to suck at something. But if you suck, and you want to get better, ask for help and then give it your best shot. Donít let embarrassment over sucking hold you back.

Wish Iíd learned that lesson sooner.

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1656
(1656 all sites)
Registered: 3/30/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 07:28 PM
Whatever you do.... self taught/ teacher taught........ take it from me after working in studios and live situations the thing most criticized is someone's pocket/time.

Practice with a METRONOME and learn how to lay back on a track.

Also, when going the self taught route, transcribe as much as possible. I really wish i would have done this early on.
Pick your favorite tunes out, learn them note for note. This really does wonders for your ear and time

As far as being taught vs. self taught...... theres a much greater advantage to being taught...... i took lessons for a while and went to music school and i definetly think my playing does not sound like Vai/Johnson...... its all in how you percieve how you should sound.

 

____________________


 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13909
(15926 all sites)
Registered: 3/14/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 07:57 PM
self taught here ..took a few lessons (3 or 4) from a great local blus player..after the fourth lesson , he told me " you don't need lessons..just keep doing what you are doing and you will be fine"..i was seriously bummed, as he was doing all these cool two and three note things i wanted to learn..truth is , take lessons...but...you can't teach feel, heart or desire..

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 17114
(17112 all sites)
Registered: 1/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 08:43 PM
I have been mostly self taught with lots of stealing over the years. I teach a few young guys now and I can still pick up some stuff from them. Or they remind me of things that I forgot long ago.

Truth is the best way to learn is to play with people often. Others players are the greatest resource out there.

I think it depends what your goals are. From there it is easier to decide which path to take.

Someone mentioned on here that no one just picks it up that fast. I disagree with that. Some peoples coordination and mentality are just far superior to others. I taught one guy that after a few months just smoked. No one would believe that he just started out.

Another friend of mine is just able to play every instrument put in front of him. Give him something new and leave him alone for an hour. Come back and his skill will be beyond what many will accomplish in their lifetime. The same guy used to skip school for months on end then the night before finals he would read the book and get 90s. Pissed me off my entire life. He is an awesome drummer and from day one could grasp and play complex time signatures. unbelieveable. Also if any of the guitarists he played with (including me) were having troubles figuring something out, he would pick it up immediately.

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 515
(515 all sites)
Registered: 3/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 08:59 PM
you know what guys? I absolutely love this discussion that we are having and I really like everyone's input, this might just be one of my favorite topics I've ever discussed on this forum, this is awesome, I hope we can keep it going.

 

____________________
You walk in through my back door...... honey drippin' from your mouth, like some Slackjaw Jezebel

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20223
(20237 all sites)
Registered: 9/22/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/11/2006 at 09:05 PM
quote:
but...you can't teach feel, heart or desire..


...and Lefty has a full cup of all 3 of these plus more !


quote:
The cat that taught me how to play guitar lives in New Haven: Jim Shepley, Ol' Lightnin' Fingers.
The first number one, taking-care-of-business man in Daytona Beach, Florida.
The cat that had it all together if you wanted to learn anything.
If you wanted to play something right, you'd go to him and learn it.
The baddest cat.
A very influential cat in my life, also.
He's dynamite.
The smokin'est cat.
I can't even talk about him, he's so hip.
He glows in the dark.
He hung the moon and tells the sun when to come up.
Shep is smokin'.




I felt the same way about my guitar insrtructor I had in the 7th grade. What a monster on the guitar !15 or so year later I run into him in a bar and we shot the breeze a bit...until he told me that Gary Richrath was the greatest guitar player on the face of the earth. I almost barfed and I wasn't even alcohol drunk !

 

____________________
If we practice and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless. -Mahatma Gandhi.

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 12349
(12472 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/12/2006 at 12:44 AM
I wish I had taken lessons when I started. There were a few teachers in my area and they taught music the old staid way...learn how to play the standards in every key and position at 120 beats per minute and do not mention playing by ear.

Wish I had taken lessons because there are some rudimentary things that I don't understand. I could have had the standard training and done the rock and roll thing in my bedroom. I would have been a lot farther down the road....

Oh well the answer is both....and dont watch Derek if you don't tune like him. He will make you think you are stupid

 

____________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine -- fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rapidly promoted by mainstream media -- which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of $hit by the clean end."

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20223
(20237 all sites)
Registered: 9/22/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/12/2006 at 01:01 AM
quote:
Oh well the answer is both....and dont watch Derek if you don't tune like him. He will make you think you are stupid


Tuning wouldn't help me in this case.

 

____________________
If we practice and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless. -Mahatma Gandhi.

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1051
(1051 all sites)
Registered: 7/10/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/12/2006 at 09:03 AM
Here's my 2cents: It's not about how you get the knowledge but rather what you do with it. Personally, I think that lessons and technical knowledge are a good thing, as long as you use it to say what you want to say. I've taken lessons from lots of guitarists, and spent a couple years taking lessons from a sax player. This was a great experience because it forced me to focus on what I was hearing and away from trying to imitate fingerings, etc.

Style is taking the relevant parts of what you hear and communicating them in your way. So, it's more about what you hear in your head & express than about what you have been taught. Technique can allow you to do that more effectively, as long as it isn't "technique for technique's sake".

 

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 88
(88 all sites)
Registered: 9/18/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/12/2006 at 09:29 AM
Agreed, Alec: good thread. I lean toward lessons, at least at some point. I learned bass strictly by ear as a teenager many moons ago. When blues and improvisational music hit, I was clueless, not knowing what notes I was playing, in what key, etc. I thought teaching yourself was the only cool way to go. Picked up guitar and learned a bunch of chords, fooled around with leads. Wasn't bad for sitting around the living room singing for my own amusement and entertaining less musical friends. Finally took a couple of lessons from a good player and teacher. Had to unlearn a lot of bad habits, but going through the work paid off with more efficient and consistent technique, and got me beyond the first five frets. Knowing some theory helps tremendously in learning songs and playing spontaneously with others. I've played out (and gotten paid for it!) in various combinations, and I'd add that performing really pushes you forward. That and recording expose the naked truth of your playing!

I take a lesson or two every now and then, and often find I take a leap forward. There's always someone better, and more to learn. Making a little progress is fun, and motivates you to work harder. Most people go through a period of learning, then sit at that plateau for years.

 

____________________
oldfan

 
<<  1    2  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software

Privacy | Terms of Service | Report Infringement | Personal Data Management | Contact Us
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com