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Author: Subject: "The Sad and Tragic Truth About The Allman Brothers Band"

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 9/2/2019 at 12:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQnem5MVL7g

Not a bad 10:45 video at all. Tragic yes, but a fairly accurate history of the band's excesses. And they went over the Scooter Herring thing but really gave Gregg a fair shake, going into his reluctance to testify and that Scooter gave him permission to testify. That last one I had never heard. Glaring omissions: They went into the deaths of the Toler brothers. But Lamar Williams and Allen Woody never get one single mention.









[Edited on 9/2/2019 by robslob]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/2/2019 at 01:12 AM
He has not come/ to testify.........
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 9/2/2019 at 04:36 PM
With all due respect to the Toler Brothers it is odd they got mentioned and Lamar and Allen did not. Lamar was in the most commercially successful ABB lineup and Allen was in that hot come back lineup of 1989 to 1997.

I read an interview with Danny Toler and he felt Gregg kinda messed him over after playing lead for him from 1982 to 1989 just barely getting by doing a lot of average pay night clubs and small venues then just as they got a record deal with Epic and things were looking much better with a Gold album and much bigger gigs, I'm No Angel was Gregg's best selling album next to Laid Back. Then suddenly Gregg said Dickey called and they are getting the Brothers back together and if the tour does good they are going to do an album. And Gregg said Dickey wanted another guitar player in the band so goodbye and good luck. Danny said it was a big blow to him and Frankie Toler.

I got hooked on the band in January of 1970 and saw as many shows as possible. Jaimoe said just a few years ago there was an energy, spark and spiritual dimension that died when Duane and Berry split and the Brothers NEVER had that again. The band was never as good. I agree. It was never the same after Duane and though I saw a few hot shows between 1978 and 1982, the lineup with Danny Toler was the most removed from the original lineup feel and vibe.

Lynyrd Skynyrd was another band that lost it's unique energy and vibe when Ronnie died. It was just never the same. Dead without Jerry is another.

The REAL DEAL Allman Brothers only existed from 1969 to 1971. Not long at all. And it was never the same after Duane. I'm sure all old fans would agree with me. And Jaimoe.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2019 at 08:13 AM
quote:

And Gregg said Dickey wanted another guitar player in the band so goodbye and good luck. Danny said it was a big blow to him and Frankie Toler.


Well sorry to Dan but NO ONE can argue what Warren brought to the band. And he had the vocals and the slide expertise, the slide having much to do with them going back to their original sound. Toler didn't add that dimension, not EVEN.
quote:

The REAL DEAL Allman Brothers only existed from 1969 to 1971.


A lot of people have said that, and hard to argue since that was the original six guys. BUT.........there was a TON of good music made during the 25 years from 1989 - 2014. I know because I witnessed 20 shows during those 25 years. Especially from 2000 - 2014. Gregg didn't get clean until around 2000, after that everyone was clean and the band just took off. There are PLENTY of Instant Lives around to prove this point.

 

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Drive you crazy

Lighten up while you still can

Don't even try to understand

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Peach Master



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  posted on 9/3/2019 at 09:27 AM
Robslop. No question there were hot shows after the original line up. I saw 3 in 1973 with the Chuck/Lamar lineup that smoked on the Brothers and Sisters tour. Listen to Southbound and Ramblin' Man live on Wipe the Windows . That 1973 tour kicked butt as good if not better than the Derek/Warren lineup of 2001-2014. The 1989 lineup with Warren and Allen was especially hot through the early 90's. I saw smoke left on the stage with the Jack/Dickey/Otiel line up in 1997 and Derek/Dickey in Las Vegas in 1999 was especially hot.

I agree with Warren being a better choice for a Brothers line up than Danny. Danny could light up some leads but he didnt play slide and Dickey doesnt enjoy electric slide and Warren is a good singer.

As to the original six. Listen to Liz Reed or You Dont Love Me off of Fillmore and One Way Out and Trouble No More off of Eat A Peach today to refresh your memory. I haven't head ANYTHING from the Derek/Warren 2001-2014 lineup that swings and drives with that kind of energy. NO guitar player EVER in the ABB played with the energy and power that Duane Allman throws down on his solo on Liz Reed from Fillmore East. Listen to it today then see if you can find Derek, Warren or anyone equaling it.

There was an energy, vibe and swagger that poured off the stage from Duane Allman that was lost when Duane died and Dickey, Danny Toler, Warren or Derek couldn't touch. They just didnt have it. One is born with it if you have it. Elvis had it. Mick Jagger has it. Jimmy Hendrix had it. Ronnie Van Zant had it and when he died it died in Lynyrd Skynyrd. Skynyrd NEVER again had that mystical energy, drive and swagger that was on stage after Ronnie died.

The real deal Allman Brothers Band was from 1969 to 1971. The most commercially successful was the Chuck/Lamar lineup but mostly in 1973 and 74. By 1975 they were loosing it. Brothers and Sisters sold over 4 million copies and was number one for FIVE weeks on the Billboard top 200 albums chart.

The original line up was almost that successful eventually. Fillmore East sold over 1 million and Eat A Peach over 2 million. Other than a 1991 release covering 1969 to 1979, the band had only THREE million selling albums. Fillmore, Peach and Brothers and Sisters. After 1973 they just didnt sell albums like many other famous bands.

I submit the energy, swagger and vibe Duane Allman brought to the table is the foundation of the band even after he died . When you hear them on FM radio, with the exception of Ramblin' Man and Jessica, it's usually a cut that has Duane on it. I heard One Way Out and Rivival on the classic rock station here yesterday. Duane was in both tracks.

Did they have some real hot and satisfying shows after 1971? Yes. Did it feel like it did when Duane was in the band? No. Same with Skynyrd after Ronnie died. And the Dead after Jerry died.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2019 at 03:30 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKrqlvMlVzlunIPWHhWdvmxadbnDcuEMED-RPRM Ejk3VRNIWTzrbQPS74LnDzhmR_80WktGQPbchvvGt6oytuuLXf8FsNA&list=RDmcAph-Pq JP0&v=mcAph-PqJP0
 

Peach Head



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  posted on 9/3/2019 at 03:45 PM
Blackey - I love your input on this site and readily admit I never heard the original 6 aside from the albums mentioned. That being said I think numerous eras had there moments when the band reached the level of the original 6 or came damn close. You pose the question did it feel like it did when Duane was in the band.
I think so. I loved the last Beacon run, a show at Darrien Lakes NY in 2013. There were many great shows
after 71 and to say none of them ever reached the original 6 level is silly. I think its easy for Jaimoe to
immortalize Duane most on this site do.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 9/3/2019 at 07:45 PM
quote:
Did they have some real hot and satisfying shows after 1971? Yes. Did it feel like it did when Duane was in the band? No. Same with Skynyrd after Ronnie died. And the Dead after Jerry died.


WORD

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 9/5/2019 at 11:52 AM
If you had seen the ABB with Duane or Skynyrd with Ronnie or the Dead with Jerry you would know I'm telling the truth. They had an energy, swagger and vibe that left those bands and never returned. It was their bands and shows and the other band members knew it and admitted the energy on stage started with those three. Jaimoe said it about the ABB. Dickey said we knew it was Duane's band and he was the sparkplug of it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/5/2019 at 12:57 PM
[quote There were many great shows after 71 and to say none of them ever reached the original 6 level is silly.


My first show was in Sept. of '73, never caught Duane on stage, did you?

 

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  posted on 9/6/2019 at 12:51 PM
No, first show was later in the 70's like most on this site.
I don't dispute the band was never the same post Duane but to say they never reached
that Zenith in 40 years with a lot of great shows and magical moments. Not, IMO




 

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  posted on 9/6/2019 at 01:11 PM
I caught a couple concerts with Duane. The second one was in a small venue, & I had front row seats. This was truly a magical show. I saw dozens of shows after the early days, and there were some extra special shows; obvioulsy some better than others.

I'm not comment on shows with Duane vs w/out. I think that's a relative thing. To everyone it's different.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/7/2019 at 12:22 PM
quote:
quote:

And Gregg said Dickey wanted another guitar player in the band so goodbye and good luck. Danny said it was a big blow to him and Frankie Toler.


Well sorry to Dan but NO ONE can argue what Warren brought to the band. And he had the vocals and the slide expertise, the slide having much to do with them going back to their original sound. Toler didn't add that dimension, not EVEN.
quote:

The REAL DEAL Allman Brothers only existed from 1969 to 1971.


A lot of people have said that, and hard to argue since that was the original six guys. BUT.........there was a TON of good music made during the 25 years from 1989 - 2014. I know because I witnessed 20 shows during those 25 years. Especially from 2000 - 2014. Gregg didn't get clean until around 2000, after that everyone was clean and the band just took off. There are PLENTY of Instant Lives around to prove this point.


Re: Warren joining and the last incarnation of the band. Warren/Derek were young and energenic. Warren could sing. This allowed the band to perfrom 2 1/2 hr shows and give Gregg a break. Keeping Dickey in the band would have soon landed them playing 75 minute shows in smaller theaters than the Beacon.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 9/7/2019 at 12:54 PM
Let's be real. The Toler Bros were not a great fit.
If DB was who he claimed to be, why not seek a
tasteful talented player better than Toler?

And if you want the original swing of the ABB then
the percussion has to go. Because that sound
was Jai and Butch together. Jaimoe says in many interviews
that he played less, and played differently after adding Marc.

Nobody is saying that's 'bad', it's just different.

Dan didn't add much of anything truly original to the band.
Warren and Derek did.

He wasn't a bad player.
He just wasn't a more distinctive, original voice.

I can't decide if there'Sad and Tragic' thing is worse than the
horrid 'After the Crash' vid. But they both line the garbage can
of RnR mockumentaries.








 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/7/2019 at 02:18 PM
quote:
Let's be real. The Toler Bros were not a great fit.
If DB was who he claimed to be, why not seek a
tasteful talented player better than Toler?

And if you want the original swing of the ABB then
the percussion has to go. Because that sound
was Jai and Butch together. Jaimoe says in many interviews
that he played less, and played differently after adding Marc.

Nobody is saying that's 'bad', it's just different.

Dan didn't add much of anything truly original to the band.
Warren and Derek did.

He wasn't a bad player.
He just wasn't a more distinctive, original voice.

I can't decide if there'Sad and Tragic' thing is worse than the
horrid 'After the Crash' vid. But they both line the garbage can
of RnR mockumentaries.





Danny was a great fit with Gregg's solo band, and most nights what he and Dickey created in Dickey's solo band just cannot be denied. It was blow the roof off the place energy, it worked, they were in sync there was nothing wrong with that. The point about him not doing slide and Dickey did not want to is a valid reason as to why Warren would be better for the band. I am not knowledgable about drumming I cannot comment really about Frankie (David) Toler's ability, but Dickey seemed happy with it during the DB G&S shows, and he was a nice guy from what I saw during those days. I don't think you can compare Butch and Jaimoe's synergy/energy in ABB to any other drummers, nobody else could EVER bring that to ABB. Sad and tragic? The band evolved and somebody ought to thank Dickey for steppin' up to the plate and helping the band survive the days and years after Duane's passing. He carried the torch and the dream to an ever evolving band, where despite personal dramas among him and Gregg in their own private lives, they all showed up to go on stage and deliver on the legacy.

Thank you ABB.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/7/2019 at 04:15 PM
quote:
Let's be real. The Toler Bros were not a great fit.
If DB was who he claimed to be, why not seek a
tasteful talented player better than Toler?

And if you want the original swing of the ABB then
the percussion has to go. Because that sound
was Jai and Butch together. Jaimoe says in many interviews
that he played less, and played differently after adding Marc.




Disagree w/1st paragraph, agree w/2nd
Itís all in what one hears/likes, but when it reached my ears I found Danís music to be by a tasteful talented player - 2 qwik xamples, BWIABegins 2004 Falls Church Va (DB&GS), also, his Night Games solo from JBTBFly is just a burner

Was a little sad when they added Marc, disrupting as it did a last instrumental link to the original band & turning it into more of a singular ensemble sound back there - was sort of the end of an era to my ears - No Knock On Marc, Butch & Jaimoe took him on for a reason

[Edited on 9/7/2019 by Stephen]

 

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"I know y'all came to hear our songs, we like to play 'em for you but without Gregg here it's really hard for us to do. He sings & plays so much & does such a good job. He's really sick, 103* He might've come, but no one would let him." Duane

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 9/7/2019 at 06:10 PM
DanT during his 79-80s run with the ABB was not the most original player.
I'm not the only one to notice. Despite his nice 2004 solo with DB and GS,
Dan was not to tapped again for the ABB. Case closed.

Warren and Derek and Jimmy are musical gods.

https://youtu.be/37eT_13yJmk

Jack wishes he was here.


Driving the Col Bruce Hampton bus x3.





 

Peach Master



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  posted on 9/7/2019 at 08:49 PM
Stephen. Butch Trucks hired Marc. Butch happened to see him play with Spyro Gyra and told Marc after the show he was going to steal him for the Allman Brothers band. Marc had never heard of the ABB. Butch got Marc to travel to Memphis, Tenn to play on some tracks on Shades Of Two Worlds. The originial four had agreed after the 1990 tour to drop Johnny Neal so I guess Butch saw an opening but the original was 6 piece not 7. Duane did want to add a 7th member he never revealed to my knowledge but most of us old fans figured it was Thom Doucette on harp. Ace only wanted to play with the band when he was in the mood.

You are right about Jaimoe. Jaimoe politely said in a couple of interviews in the 1990s that Marc took his space in the band so Jaimoe said he would just find new parts to play. But to my ears he mostly held back. Sometimes if you noticed would not play at all during parts of a song. Jaimoe seemed to often latch on to a straight beat and reinforce was Butch was laying down after Marc joined. It really changed the way Butch and Jaimoe sounded together and it seemed to me Butch liked it better. But Jaimoe didnt complain or threaten to quit like many musicians would and being a team player just tried to find a new space for himself.

One of the Joy's of listening to Fillmore East, Eat A Peach live tracks and the Chuck/Lamar lineup on Wipe the Windows, Check the Oil, Dollar Gas was listening to Jaimoe. All the cool fills and neat drum things around the beat and how Jaimoe would erupt in a hole a soloist would leave open in a solo. Jaimoe was complimenting and working in and around what Butch was putting down and Butch was actually laying down the beat and was the time keeper. After Marc was added Marc did crowd Jaimoe out of that space. Marc is an excellent percussionist so I can see why Gregg and Dickey agreed to go with Butch to hire him. But that unique tandem drumming that was so cool on many of the band's songs seemed removed to me. Listen to Play All Night from the Beacon the archive release from 2014 of those 1992 shows then listen to Jaimoe on Wipe the Windows. Jaimoe is all over the mix playing all that unusual and cool stuff. After 1991 it was almost Jaimoe could have stayed home and the band would sound about the same. He seemed often crowed out to me.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 9/8/2019 at 12:14 PM
I saw one of Duane's last shows in a tiny hall with rows of metal folding chairs. It's probably the best concert I've ever seen & in hindsight one of the most poignant.

ABB lasted almost 50 years. It was a shape shifter as various combinations of musicians performed over 5 decades. To me, the music was important not the players. Each brought a new variation to the music - some worked, some didn't, some in the extreme. Crowd response played a role in the sound on any given night, too. That's the point of live music.

 
 


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