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Author: Subject: The Dickey Betts Band Premiere New "Ramblin' Man" Live Video

Peach Master



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  posted on 7/8/2019 at 09:03 PM
"Dickey was the backbone of the ABB. If he had vanished from the band early on
the story would have ended right there"

Um, No. LMAO.

The band didn't fold after Duane died, and it would not have folded had DB checked out first.

DA was an innovator, and he did not want to be the only guitar player.
DA chose original musicians to play with.

DB picked a DB clone in DT, although he grew out of that over time...

DB and DT would not have made great music on eat a peach.


 

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  posted on 7/8/2019 at 09:57 PM
Guitar chemistry is fascinating. You meant that DB thought he was getting a DA replacement, right? That was a fair thing to believe.

But back to the topic - it really is interesting to consider bands that have two guitarists both playing meaningful and meaty significant signature roles, and what happens when the line-ups change. Do you get a guy who sounds like the guy who just left? Do you get a guy who sounds like you? Do you get a guy who sounds pretty darned different?

I mean, it is a great question to ask with ANY musical shift or membership change, but when you get a guitar duo sound as astonishing as that of Duane & Dickey, or Keith and Brian Jones (or Mick Taylor imo), or Bobby & Jerry.... I mean I was racking my brains trying to think of guitar pairs where BOTH guys had a sound that was hard to cover. In some 2-guitar bands, I'm not sure I feel a change of membership as strongly, but that probably means that I just do not know those bands that well.

Cleary, AC/DC and Aerosmith thrive on that original line-up classic duo guitar sound and are challenged when the guitar line-up changes, even if I don't know those guitarists that well to know how much. I'm not enough of a fan of bands like Wishbone Ash, Iron Maiden, or Judas Priest to know if those bands really suffered or not from changes in guitarists.

Back to the ABB:

Dan Toler seemed very similar to Dickey in approach, and some would argue that it was too an extreme. He was too close to the sound of the other guy in the same line-up rather than offering a contrast. Obviously, there is a counter-argument in favor of having two similar guys creating great melodies. Maybe "Enlightened Rogues" is 2 Dickeys like "Tattoo You" is 2 Keiths.

Then, there is a general sense that Warren was at least hired in part to be the Daune guy in Dickey's band and then the 1989+ reunion of the ABB that lasted through the mid-90s.

Then, and I still have not gotten to hear much of the Jack Pearson ABB, so I'm not sure if he played that part (the Duane role) in the same way that Warren and later Derek seemed to be expected to be, but presumably there was some of that.

Derek then stepped in to be Dickey's foil, and had his Duane down. Once gain, you had a "Duane guy" opposite Dickey.

Which then makes it fascinating when Dickey was out of the band. I'm not weighing in on any of the personal politics, just rambling about the musical equations thereof. Duane was one defining Allmans sound; Dickey was another. In that absence of both those guys, who does what, and why?

Jimmy Herring is a beast, and he was an inspired choice for sure. Was this the wildest and weirdest post-AFE lineup ever, and the most UNLIKE the AFE line-up ever in terms of expectations of guitar roles / sounds?
It was clearly the combo of 2 guitarists who had logged the least miles with the ABB. It's kind of a shame it didn't last longer; where would this pairing of Starchild global kozmic players have pulled Gregg and Butch?


And then you have what is a different and interesting question. Warren Haynes entered the ABB as the "Duane" / "Foil to Dickey" guy. Derek Trucks also entered the ABB as that same "Duane" / foil to DB" role. When they were now the two guitarists for the ABB, both having been enrolled as Duane guys though both having a melodic sense, where else could they have taken their 2-guitar approach?

 

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  posted on 7/8/2019 at 10:48 PM
Excellent thoughtful post Jim Sheridan!

". You meant that DB thought he was getting a DA replacement, right? That was a fair thing to believe. "

No I think Dickey chose Dan because he would not be outshined.
They were too close in style and the contrast between their voices was lost.

I never heard Dan as the Duane guy. I think Dan Toler and Scott Sharrard are more alike.
They can do that DB sound thing, but it's still not Dickey, it's not as exciting, and it reeks of Molly Hatchet.

When they aren't trying the Dickey flavor, I think they are better players.

I always wondered why Gregg went for that in his solo band. Tasteful but fairly predictable if not sometimes smokin guitar.

Warren has an incredible musical vocabulary. In that way he reminds me of Garcia.

 

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  posted on 7/8/2019 at 11:23 PM
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I'm just thrilled that Dickey is better and still doing what he loves. I've been following Brothers since 69 Ö.I ain't perfect all the time either....lol


Just catching up ,,,, I havenít watched the video and I donít think I will.... what for ?????
Ive been around a loooooooong time Ive seen many many many many great LIVE ABB DBGS shows and a few clunkers along the way... it happens , sometimes when your young and when your old
ABB has and will always be my favorite band . I donít even wanna get started about my favorite guitarist, song writer, melody maker , best musical compositions , Blue Sky maker , original founding member of the ABB Dickey Betts just automatically puts a smile on my face, in my heart , and makes my true hippie dance come alive I hope I never stop feeling that no matter what the nay sayers say ... I ve been there to the mountain top WOW
Luvíem

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 07:45 AM
Thanks rainy! ..........Peace........joe
 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 09:11 AM
Interesting stuff Jim... one thing is certain: the Jimmy/Derek lineup pulled Gregg in a direction he NEVER wanted to head down hahaha. Quite possibly the last direction he EVER wanted to head. The entire front line of that band was a Zambi vision....Gregg may have thought he died n went to hel, lol. Hence him losing it on the guys in the bus. Certainly not Bobby Bland esque, lol. Makes me laugh. Iím sure Skydog would have dug it...I did too.
 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 09:21 AM
quote:
I never heard Dan as the Duane guy. I think Dan Toler and Scott Sharrard are more alike.
They can do that DB sound thing, but it's still not Dickey, it's not as exciting, and it reeks of Molly Hatchet.


I've never thought of Toler and Sharrard as similar guitarists, but I kind of see what you are saying. Both are kind of blandly adaptable, that is, neither is specific enough that they can each play multiple genres. Gregg never wanted the lengthy guitar pyrotechnics of the ABB in his own band, but he wanted a guitarist that could still play a brief scorching solo when called upon. Both Dan and Scott can play "Whipping Post", but neither is going to be revelatory.

Toler was definitely a "southern rock" guitarist of his time, you could tell he was hugely influenced by that music of the early 1970s. Solid guitarist, but never really found his own sound (unless you count his all-whammy Strat during the 2000s which I did not find pleasant).

Sharrard sounds more 1960s blues and soul-influenced. Nothing flashy, never took a solo to the moon, but knew his lane.

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 10:01 AM
Only a topic about Dickey can get a multiple page thread going...

As for the all of the guitar players that have been in the band ( and the other musicians) they all deserved to be there based on talent. Dan's solo & work on I'm no Angel is fantastic - it makes the song.

Scott was in Gregg's band because he was exactly what Gregg wanted.

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 10:15 AM
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I really like Standback on Peeking at the Beacon. Gregg's vocals are strong and Derek and Dickey are blowing real good. The first two tracks are strong too and I like Leave My Blues at Home and Seven turns.

I thought it was kind of ironic that one of the best cuts off of Peakin' was Dickey's "Seven Turns". Maybe he was just more focused on his own material.

Disagree with "Stand Back" and "Leave My Blues" - I thought those are the two worst cuts on a pretty sloppy album. But to be fair, I don't think either of those songs ever sounded quite right live, even with Warren & Derek.

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 11:03 AM
quote:
I've never thought of Toler and Sharrard as similar guitarists, but I kind of see what you are saying. Both are kind of blandly adaptable, that is, neither is specific enough that they can each play multiple genres.


Spot on. The first time I even heard of Dan Toler was on Dickey's 1st "Great Southern" recording and the first time I ever saw him perform live was at the Roxy in L.A. in May of '77 (KMET "Live" FM broadcast) He was the "other guy" with an axe who gave Dickey someone to play off. It was an exciting time, Dickey was back on stage after the disastrous "Win, Lose or Draw" and Dan Toler was part of that magic, nothing more. "Blandly acceptable"

Scott, was to quote another poster, "exactly what Gregg wanted", a slinger who could adequately do obligatory fills albeit un-spectacularly. Having seen Gregg's solo bands dozens of times through the decades, I feel he might have been able to pull off all of those shows with a different guitar player at every single gig....

Dickey was initially "Challenged" by every guitarist that stood next to him and in my humble opinion, some of his best tone and playing ever appears on "Pattern Disruptive"...That is the era (prior to the '89 re-union) where a video release would have benefited his legacy with the most impact. Like quite a few here I am scratching my head in complete wonder as to why anyone would listen/watch to the "Ramblin' Man" video and feel like this was a necessary purchase.....

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 11:19 AM
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Spot on. The first time I even heard of Dan Toler was on Dickey's 1st "Great Southern" recording and the first time I ever saw him perform live was at the Roxy in L.A. in May of '77 (KMET "Live" FM broadcast) He was the "other guy" with an axe who gave Dickey someone to play off. It was an exciting time, Dickey was back on stage after the disastrous "Win, Lose or Draw" and Dan Toler was part of that magic, nothing more. "Blandly acceptable"



Yeah, I still have trouble telling Dan and Dickey solos apart on Enlightened Rogues.

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 11:43 AM
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Peeking at the Beacon was to fulfill the ABB's commitment to Epic. After 2nd set in 1995 several in the band decided their deal with Epic wasn't a good one so they refused to do another album which disappointed Warren and Allen. They wanted to do some more albums.

The Beacon was chosen because of it's iconic connection to the band by 2000 and it's my understanding it's a good soundboard recording they provided Epic culled from several shows during the 2000 Beacon run produced by the band and sound man Bud Snyder. Likely they didn't plan on the shows being part of an album much like Wipe the Windows was an afterthought by Capricorn.

I really like Standback on Peeking at the Beacon. Gregg's vocals are strong and Derek and Dickey are blowing real good. The first two tracks are strong too and I like Leave My Blues at Home and Seven turns. Nice slide solo from Derek. The rest of it I don't play. Well I only play any of the CD just a few times a year. It was a disappointment for Epic selling just north of 20,000 copies.


What is Peeking at the Beacon?

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 11:54 AM
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Interesting stuff Jim... one thing is certain: the Jimmy/Derek lineup pulled Gregg in a direction he NEVER wanted to head down hahaha. Quite possibly the last direction he EVER wanted to head. The entire front line of that band was a Zambi vision....Gregg may have thought he died n went to hel, lol. Hence him losing it on the guys in the bus. Certainly not Bobby Bland esque, lol. Makes me laugh. Iím sure Skydog would have dug it...I did too.


The Jimmy / Derek lineup was awesome IMO. I loved that 2000 tour. Jimmy was in a tough spot and did great. Like pretty much most who were around here then I was really bummed about Dickey but The ABB were able to move on that summer. In fact, my first Beacon trip was just a few months before that and I didn't think Dickey was bad. Other then his kid taking solos on Dreams I thought the shows were good.

Regarding Dan Toler, when he was in Great Southern he was awesome. Saw him in New York with Dickey and I thought Dan was actually better. Just my opinion. That guy could play.

 

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  posted on 7/9/2019 at 02:27 PM
Relix has a feature with some more footage from the show:

https://relix.com/blogs/detail/preview-the-dickey-betts-band-ramblin-man-li ve-at-the-st-george-theatre/

 

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  posted on 7/10/2019 at 08:03 AM
Re-reading this discussion by sober daylight, I can see that I misread this post:

"DB picked a DB clone in DT, although he grew out of that over time..."

My bad. I thought that this was referring to Derek Trucks (DT) rather than Dan Toler (DT), when obviously it refers to Dan Toler. Sorry!!!!

 

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  posted on 7/10/2019 at 12:11 PM
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The band didn't fold after Duane died, and it would not have folded had DB checked out first.


Though I personally prefer Gregg's early songwriting, by LAFE it is clear he was not coming up with new stuff. Without Betts' hit machine EAP wouldn't have happened, the ABB would not have broken through with Brothers and Sisters. Duane, not a songwriter and in high demand as a blazing talent on the ascent, would not have spent too much more time in a band on the chitlin circuit, with lesser guitar players skyrocketing all around him in the early 70s. He would almost surely have been compelled to move on to work with leading lights in the industry - possibly into production. Of course impossible to know, but interesting to speculate on. If we were placing betts I'd lay odds that "Southern Rock" never would have happened.


[Edited on 7/11/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 

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  posted on 7/10/2019 at 03:43 PM
Bad song choice for the hard core fans as far as a promo video prior to the release date . Maybe the business people who are responsible for generating sales for this Dickey release feel any ( good, bad or ugly) version of 'Ramblin Man' will help sales to the casual music fan. There are very few versions of Ramblin Man other than the Brothers and Sisters recorded version that I turn to when I'm looking to get my Dickey fix . Whether it was 1979 , 1989, 1999 or 2009 or 2018 I never had an appreciation for Ramblin Man. I'll take Blue Sky, Change My way of living, Elizabeth Reed , Nothing you can Do or any other tune Dickey has played on in year of his long career other than ' Ramblin Man'. I'm sure there is going to some real good playing on the release that all of us hard core fans will appreciate and maybe even listen to more than once.
I was at The Peach Fest show and The Dickey set worked real well for me . I'm sure the previous night in Staten Island worked well for those fans too.

 

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  posted on 7/10/2019 at 11:39 PM
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Spot on. The first time I even heard of Dan Toler was on Dickey's 1st "Great Southern" recording and the first time I ever saw him perform live was at the Roxy in L.A. in May of '77 (KMET "Live" FM broadcast) He was the "other guy" with an axe who gave Dickey someone to play off. It was an exciting time, Dickey was back on stage after the disastrous "Win, Lose or Draw" and Dan Toler was part of that magic, nothing more. "Blandly acceptable"



Yeah, I still have trouble telling Dan and Dickey solos apart on Enlightened Rogues.
Yep It was great to see them back though!.

 

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  posted on 7/11/2019 at 06:45 AM
So many things to say on this topic. I went to the Beacon show and have to say I had a great time. I thought the Devon Allman Band were great, and even enjoyed Marshall Tucker despite Doug Grayís voice. I was thrilled to see Dickey and hear the songs even though I thought the performance was disappointing.

I could not watch the video. Dickeyís voice is shot and out of key and the playing is almost amateurish. Do I begrudge him for it? No, due to all of the great music he gave us in the past. But would I pay money to see him again? No. Just like I stopped going to see guys like Chuck Berry and B.B. King.

Thanks to Fretsman for posting the Dickey video from NYC in 2014. I attended the show which was the first time I saw Dickey solo since the original Great Southern days and loved the show. Dickey was still capable of doing great guitar runs here and I canít wait to listen to the videos in the gym.

 

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  posted on 7/11/2019 at 07:14 AM
I remember a Dickey interview in 1977 taking about putting together his new band. I think it was Circus magazine. Dickey put out the word in 1976 after the ABB splintered over the Gregg/Scooter drug dealer and all the other problems. Dickey said he hired Dan because he was the only one auditioning who could play those twin leads like Duane. Dickey wasn't talking about guitar solos but where the two lead guitars played dual lead on those melody lines. Dickey talked about not liking electric slide but he would have to keep doing it because Toler doesnt play slide at all. That 1976 to 1977 band that recorded the first Great Southern album didnt last though. I think it was Chicago where there was a big fist fight with Dickey playing the next show with a big black eye and one of the drummers, the bass player and the keyboardist replaced. By the next year Dickey had come to see Gregg didnt sell out anybody so Dickey approached Gregg about putting the band together. Then the original four agreed to play at a Great Southern show in Central Park. Chuck and Lamar weren't available being busy with Sea Level.

Next the ABB played at the Capricorn picnic and after the set Chuck went to Phil Walden and said he and Lamar just talked and it felt uninspired like the last months the ABB did in late 1975 and 1976 so he and Lamar want to pass and keep going with Sea Level. Phil then asked Dickey and Gregg to play a set with the Central Park lineup which was the original four with Great Southern's bass and other lead guitar player. Later Gregg, Butch and eventually even Dickey agreed the chemistry wasn't right with that line up. So the plan in 1978 was to put the Brothers and Sisters lineup back together. When that didn't work out Phil Walden who was really wanted a new ABB album as soon as possible got the band down to Miami and Tom Dowd with the original four plus two from Great Southern. According to Butch and Gregg in his book they rushed it and didn't get the right lineup. And Butch, Gregg and even Dickey agreed they shouldn't have been involved with Phil Walden at that point.


When Dickey hired Warren Haynes for the Dickey Betts Band in 1987 he said Warren Haynes was the best he had run across to play twin lead with since he lost Duane Allman.

In 2002 when he hired Dan Toler again Dickey said for years he never considered Danny again because his style is too close to his. But when he ran into Danny recently, it was completely different. Toler was playing a Fender Strat not a Les Paul and using the whammy bar a lot which was a positive change with his own style and voice on his solos now.

 

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  posted on 7/11/2019 at 08:47 AM
Great stuff Blackey. Danny definitely added a new (Dangerous) dimension to his playing with latter day Great Southern . Generally The Brother's always did a great job at selecting musicians to play with . Danny's entrance into our world allowed Dickey to take his own playing to a new level whether it was with early Great Southern or The Brother's . The lack of inspiration from early Great Southern and The Brother's from 79-81 was the quality of the songwriting. Warren brought the whole package when he entered the equation. Slide, Electric, Vocals, Songwriting , Common Sense and Intelligence are all part of the Warren Haynes Package.
 

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  posted on 7/11/2019 at 09:31 AM
quote:
I'll take Blue Sky, Change My way of living, Elizabeth Reed , Nothing you can Do or any other tune Dickey has played on in year of his long career other than ' Ramblin Man'.


Your listing of Dickey songs got me thinking, I have always thought Back Where It All Begins is wonderful, and seems to fly under the radar when thinking about great Dickey tunes.

 

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  posted on 7/11/2019 at 11:13 AM
Pops42..On Enlightened Rogues Dickey is the right stereo side and Dan is left. Dan takes the 1st lead on Pegasus and Blind Love. All the other guitar leads are Dickeyís.
Personally I can tell them apart.

 
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  posted on 7/11/2019 at 03:57 PM
Too bad Chuck Leavell and Lamar Williams opted to stay with Sea Level after the Brothrrs and Sisters line up played at the 1978 Capricorn picnic. Enlighten Rogues would have been a different album. According to Gregg's book Gregg didnt care for David Goldflies on bass.

 

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  posted on 7/11/2019 at 04:39 PM
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Too bad Chuck Leavell and Lamar Williams opted to stay with Sea Level after the Brothrrs and Sisters line up played at the 1978 Capricorn picnic. Enlighten Rogues would have been a different album. According to Gregg's book Gregg didnt care for David Goldflies on bass.


Goldflies was very different than Berry Oakley and Lamar, but I must say he was an absolute monster in Great Southern, and also in some of the ABB shows I saw. I don't know what Gregg's opposition was, i can only surmise that Goldflies' style was his concern

 
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