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Author: Subject: Alabama outlaws abortion

Peach Master



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  posted on 5/20/2019 at 07:23 PM
quote:
I appreciate cyclone88's contributions to this thread!


Why, thank you. As Mr. Rabbit points out, we do seem to be having civil discussions about what can be inflammatory topics these days. Things will probably heat up as we move into 2020.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 01:37 PM
"To say that the Fetus is a person if the mother wants it and it's not if she doesn't is not science. It's spin"

William McGurn

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 01:49 PM
Pro-choice my @ss.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 02:09 PM
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Pro-choice my @ss.


I am absolutely. Growing tired of women yelling at Men trying to take away "Their rights".....

It's your body, none of the Governments business; act like adults and not victims

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 02:30 PM
quote:
I am absolutely. Growing tired of women yelling at Men trying to take away "Their rights".....

It's your body, none of the Governments business; act like adults and not victims

Wait, you're tired of the politicians trying to take away women's rights or you're tired about women yelling about it?

[Edited on 5/21/2019 by porkchopbob]

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 02:32 PM
Ok, if you are so "pro-choice", how about one itty bitty post saying why you support women in this regard. All I have ever seen from you is that you are "pro choice", all your actual words go to undermining that position. Quoting McGurn, he is vehemently against the right to choose.

Unfortunately this is an issue where you end up on a side whether you want to or not.

I am flat out pro-choice. My wife and I chose to have a kid. Because we were personally uncomfortable with abortion. Personal decision. Kid stone autistic, still a toddler at 14, I have been pretty much mom and dad, primary caregiver his whole life. By choice. How many guys out there have done fulltime mom work? Let alone for a permanent baby?

Men want a say in pregnancy? Then how about men earning that right by stepping up and doing child care?









 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 02:38 PM
quote:
"To say that the Fetus is a person if the mother wants it and it's not if she doesn't is not science. It's spin"

William McGurn

Can you cite where someone has tried to have it both ways? Because, as I mentioned before, many of the laws that protect a fetus "as a person" were introduced by pro-life politicians.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 03:56 PM
quote:
Ok, if you are so "pro-choice", how about one itty bitty post saying why you support women in this regard.


Alright. Because I have never walked a foot, much less a mile in their shoes. I have however been a participant in this decision making process, ultimately acquiescing to my girlfriends thoughts and choice.

Once again admitting that this is a deeply personal decision to end a life, I stand in no ones way once that choice has been made and advocate for no law prohibiting that choice.

I appreciate the discussion taking place here and the civility involved but remain torn between taking part in a legal activity while terminating a life.

The point is and will remain "When does a Human life begin"?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 04:38 PM
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The point is and will remain "When does a Human life begin"?


That is a religious, philosophical, existential question that has nothing to do w/law. Individuals follow the tenets of whatever religion or philosophy they practice in their personal decision-making about many topics, including medical decisions free from government interference. That question applies equally to when does life end.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 04:50 PM
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The point is and will remain "When does a Human life begin"?


Ok ante up. When do you think it begins? I honestly do not know, and I regard the matter in terms of mother's requirements first.

This matter has been managed differently according to custom throughout history. The main point seems to rather be "do you force your beliefs and customs on others?"

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 04:52 PM
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quote:
The point is and will remain "When does a Human life begin"?


That question applies equally to when does life end.


Are there 3 trimesters regarding the ending of life?

Death is pretty damn final

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 05:04 PM
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Death is pretty damn final

Cardiac death is final. However, since the 1960s when life support usage became widespread, that question is raised in hospitals every day & encompasses persistent vegetative state, coma, & so-called "brain" death that calls into question organ harvesting, artificial nutrition & hydration, hope v. futility, and the religious benefit of suffering.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 06:23 PM
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quote:
The point is and will remain "When does a Human life begin"?


Ok ante up. When do you think it begins?


I do not profess to know either. My belief? Life begins and ends with the beating of a heart.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 08:41 PM
Heartbeat, eh? That's pretty generous. That certainly cuts you a couple months of moral slack. Don't feel bad, For me life begins when the sperm separates and embarks upon its holy quest. I get another billion years in hell every time I spill the blessed seed, one year for each precious life robbed of its godgiven right to a chance at glory. I might have to convert to your belief system, it is a lot more relaxed.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 09:24 PM
I do believe abortion is killing a life, be it an embryo or an early stage fetus - before or after the heartbeat. I think that abortion at 2 weeks or 10 weeks, an unborn baby is being killed. I do not think it is my business, or the government's if the mother wants to or has a need to terminate her pregnancy.
 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2019 at 11:19 PM
Not challenging your beliefs, at all, seriously nothing but respect for personal belief - just have to point out that you are begging the law to step in if you define abortion as murder.

This is getting pretty tender, getting close to home for all of us. Pretty grim thread. Good angles, but we can only get so far without more input from women so I'm pleased with leaving off. It will sort itself out.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2019 at 07:50 AM
True, it could be considered murder. I just think that anyone who believes in abortion needs to be honest with what is happening. A life is being ended.

I am also fine with capital punishment and think it needs expanded, not eliminated as some states are doing - but that is the choice of the voters and representatives of those states.

I also believe in medically assisted suicide for those with terminal conditions that are competent to make such a decision for themselves. Obviously an unborn baby in the mother's womb does not control such a decision, but that is the fact that the court has ruled it is the mother's option and right for the procedure. If it all changed tomorrow, well, that is fine too. I would rather it not change, but if it did there are a couple dozen other things effecting our nation as a whole that are more important.

[Edited on 5/22/2019 by nebish]

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2019 at 10:23 AM
Slavery is pretty important. Tore this country in half once and will again if half the population decides to physically control the other half. It ties into the very foundations of liberty. To shrug it off as unimportant shows a total unawareness of the women's side of history.
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 5/22/2019 at 11:12 AM
I'm being redundant, I know, but FFS, what anyone "believes" is fine in their own head. It has no bearing on the legal rights of others.


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2019 at 01:33 PM
True, it is law. And if SOTUS should ever overturn it, that too will then be law. I "believe" that would be the wrong decision, but the nation will survive.
 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2019 at 03:04 PM
Nevermind. Like I said, it will sort itself out. Enjoy the 14th century!
 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/23/2019 at 08:44 AM
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Nevermind. Like I said, it will sort itself out. Enjoy the 14th century!


Yo BR, what's up? Enjoy your posts. Enjoy a few others too, BIGV, cyclone, good stuff. Touchy thread indeed. Was wondering, what you mean by "it will sort itself out". Seems rather ambiguous.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2019 at 07:10 PM
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True, it could be considered murder. I just think that anyone who believes in abortion needs to be honest with what is happening. A life is being ended.

I am also fine with capital punishment and think it needs expanded, not eliminated as some states are doing - but that is the choice of the voters and representatives of those states.

I also believe in medically assisted suicide for those with terminal conditions that are competent to make such a decision for themselves. Obviously an unborn baby in the mother's womb does not control such a decision, but that is the fact that the court has ruled it is the mother's option and right for the procedure. If it all changed tomorrow, well, that is fine too. I would rather it not change, but if it did there are a couple dozen other things effecting our nation as a whole that are more important.

[Edited on 5/22/2019 by nebish]



Making it a felony or putting women or doctor's in prison doesn't seem the way to handle it. Women should not have to go to back alley people, that's horrible too. The women need to realize that they have choices, one is birth control, that should be available and paid for by insurance companies, adoption needs to be available to them also if they cannot deal with raising the child and there needs to be paid time off if the woman is expected to carry the child full term and then give the child into adoption.

Gloria Allred told a horrible account of what happened to her.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gloria-allred-new-york-city-pro-choice-ble eding-to-death-back-alley-abortion-bill-de-blasio


Women’s rights attorney Gloria Allred told a gathering in New York City on Tuesday that she nearly bled to death from an illegal abortion in the 1960s after she was raped at gunpoint while on vacation in Mexico. She explained that she didn't realize she was pregnant until she returned to the U.S., where abortion was still illegal in most states.

Allred said that when she began hemorrhaging during the procedure, the person performing the abortion told her it was “your problem now."

“The only time a hospital would admit a woman like me was if she was bleeding to death from an abortion," Allred said. "The nurse told me, ‘This should teach you a lesson.'


There are many issues and sides to this problem. It does not need to be criminalized, if a Doctor and hospital want to perform them, and the women want them, that probably should be between the woman and her doctor. It should not be used as a convenience and the financial greed needs to be taken out of it. Set a low fee that is affordable for the women to pay, or if they cannot pay it, the hospital can write it off. Do not have the insurance companies profiteering off it. If there were better alternatives available, the women might not feel that is their only option.

There is no comprehensive safe adoption system in this country. There are desperate infertile couples, there are greedy baby brokers who will sell it to someone and make a big profit. The states and communities should set up programs to help the women, and foster care is worse than taking an animal to the pound. That's the system we have now. That needs to be changed.

[Edited on 5/25/2019 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2019 at 07:15 PM
ACLU and Planned Parenthood filed lawsuits today, Friday against the ruling passed in Alabama.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-abortion-alabama/groups-sue-over-ala bama-abortion-law-judge-blocks-mississippi-ban-idUSKCN1SU1OE

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2019 at 07:25 PM
I would never serve in todays military,seeing that approximately half the people you'd be fighting or defending would be republicans and they certainly are not worthy.

 

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Life ain't sh-t,without a joint.

 
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