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Author: Subject: Largest US nail manufacturer 'on the brink of extinction' because of the steel tariffs

World Class Peach





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  posted on 6/26/2018 at 08:25 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/26/news/companies/steel-tariffs-job-losses/ind ex.html

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/26/2018 at 09:03 PM
Easy fix, tariff all the imported nails. Playing field leveled.
 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/26/2018 at 09:17 PM

American policies over decades encouraged outsourcing of many industries now suffer these consequences if this company cant find a competitive American supplier . Also, there is a process to apply for a waiver.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/26/2018 at 09:30 PM
The waiver process has turned out to be overwhelming for the limited number of people at Commerce dealing with thousands of requests.

Nails for some reason can still be found made in the USA without too much difficulty. Screws on the other hand are much harder. And nuts and bolts.

If Mid Continent Nail wasn't undercut by imported nails their business would be in a better position.

At any rate, this is a legitimate issue and problem that needs addressed. By increasing the cost of some imported steel and aluminum and while domestic steel and aluminum ramps up to meet more demand there is potential for more outsourcing to just make the entire product somewhere else and bring in the finished good to keep the cost low and competitive. Like I said, it is simple to fix this. All imported nails should be subject to an import barrier thereby making nails made here more attractive.

If you tariff the imported raw material to make a widget, but you don't tariff the imported widgets we are going to get more imported widgets. There is a correct way to do this...

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 6/26/2018 at 10:29 PM
This will add to the rising cost to home builders.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/26/2018 at 11:51 PM
quote:
Easy fix, tariff all the imported nails. Playing field leveled.


Since nails are made of steel, they should be subject to the tariffs. You're right, if they're not they should be.

However, if they're not already, and you add them, other countries will add a retaliatory tariff on something else coming from the US. There is no easy fix. No country will let a tariff go unanswered. That is what a trade war is about. You pick a winner in your own country, and the other country picks a loser in your country. If you don't think your picks smartly, then you have unintended consequences such as solar installers going out of business or motorcycle manufacturers moving production overseas. No additional tariff will go unanswered. It's a back and forth, and the reason protectionist policies never work.

I'm for placing tariffs to level the playing field due to environmental regulations and such, but placing tariffs on a mother country just because you have a trade deficit is never going to work in the long run. The other country will just add an equal tariff on something else and essentially you are letting another country decide which of our industries will suffer.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 05:59 AM
See I believe that protectionist policies built this country up until WWll. After trade liberalization here while other countries engaged in their own protectionist policies against us have built their nations.

If a tarrif is a wise tool to use when targeting environmental concerns, why then is it not also a mechanism to balance out wage and benefit differences in our market vs the globe? The more we push for better compensation for our workers, the more those employers are going to search for cheaper labor, just as they continually evaluate and search for ways to lower or keep in check all overhead costs effecting the balance sheet.

The government should restrict the ability for a corporation to move production outside of this country when the primary market for their product remains the US. And then so our companies are not at a competitive disadvantage related to foreign companies here, those foreign companies should face import barriers to take away their cost advantage.

It takes the power out of the board room and empowers labor in a way that no union could ever do.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 10:15 AM
well this is a nice discussion of how tariffs work, but the bottom line is without a waiver this company will move to mexico or close. 2000 jobs gone.

unintended consequences.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 10:32 AM
Everyone is talking about tariffs as if they only have an effect on the two countries that tariff each other. If a country is hit with a tariff on their goods, they can sell their products to other countries that do not have a tariff. If a country (in this case the USA) puts tariffs against multiple countries, those countries can still trade with each other and ignore the US. So, the US loses manufacturing jobs as their markets dry up and eventually fall into a recession. The rest of the world thrives. The idea that somehow this will bring manufacturing jobs back home is a nonstarter as no company will expand in a recession. The US will drop back from being a major economic and political power to taking a backseat in the world. This will take years to recover from, if recovery is even possible. This is what you get when you have a president who knee jerks his responses to everything.
 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 11:48 AM
quote:
Everyone is talking about tariffs as if they only have an effect on the two countries that tariff each other. If a country is hit with a tariff on their goods, they can sell their products to other countries that do not have a tariff. If a country (in this case the USA) puts tariffs against multiple countries, those countries can still trade with each other and ignore the US. So, the US loses manufacturing jobs as their markets dry up and eventually fall into a recession. The rest of the world thrives. The idea that somehow this will bring manufacturing jobs back home is a nonstarter as no company will expand in a recession. The US will drop back from being a major economic and political power to taking a backseat in the world. This will take years to recover from, if recovery is even possible. This is what you get when you have a president who knee jerks his responses to everything.


The Narcissist In Chief always reminds us how smart he is. He also brags about his education from the Wharton School. I'll bet his professors are falling out of their chairs. Trump makes decisions based upon impulse and creates chaos. The latest in a long line of unpopular and poor strategies will bite the hands who have fed him.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 12:53 PM
quote:
See I believe that protectionist policies built this country up until WWll. After trade liberalization here while other countries engaged in their own protectionist policies against us have built their nations.

If a tarrif is a wise tool to use when targeting environmental concerns, why then is it not also a mechanism to balance out wage and benefit differences in our market vs the globe? The more we push for better compensation for our workers, the more those employers are going to search for cheaper labor, just as they continually evaluate and search for ways to lower or keep in check all overhead costs effecting the balance sheet.

The government should restrict the ability for a corporation to move production outside of this country when the primary market for their product remains the US. And then so our companies are not at a competitive disadvantage related to foreign companies here, those foreign companies should face import barriers to take away their cost advantage.

It takes the power out of the board room and empowers labor in a way that no union could ever do.


Some would argue that protectionist policies lead to The Great Depression prior to WWII. No doubt the Smoot-Hawley Tariffs deepened the Great Depression.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 02:41 PM
quote:
well this is a nice discussion of how tariffs work, but the bottom line is without a waiver this company will move to mexico or close. 2000 jobs gone.

unintended consequences.



Where are you getting the 2000 jobs gone figure from?


quote:
Everyone is talking about tariffs as if they only have an effect on the two countries that tariff each other. If a country is hit with a tariff on their goods, they can sell their products to other countries that do not have a tariff. If a country (in this case the USA) puts tariffs against multiple countries, those countries can still trade with each other and ignore the US. So, the US loses manufacturing jobs as their markets dry up and eventually fall into a recession. The rest of the world thrives. The idea that somehow this will bring manufacturing jobs back home is a nonstarter as no company will expand in a recession. The US will drop back from being a major economic and political power to taking a backseat in the world. This will take years to recover from, if recovery is even possible. This is what you get when you have a president who knee jerks his responses to everything.


You are forgetting that companies will be able to supply our market with more domestic products that were once supplied by foreign producers.

I am thinking that recovery is not possible from the damage that has already been done, decades prior to now with these corporate lawyers and foreign interests getting their way. That is what we got when the corptocracy got it's way. I never knew which side you were on.

quote:
Some would argue that protectionist policies lead to The Great Depression prior to WWII. No doubt the Smoot-Hawley Tariffs deepened the Great Depression.


The United States enacted it's first tariff in 1816 and there were dozens, before Smoot-Hawley, some with higher rates. The timing of Smoot-Hawley may've been wrong, but historically it was exactly in line with US economic policy. I am glad you said that it did not start the Great Depression, which many wrongly claim it did. I think Smoot-Hawley has been blown out of proportion, it just cited and repeated so often that many believe it was this critical event which is more myth.

Other countries have literally been built by our free trade policy while our nation has gotten poorer. Sure, not the wealthy, the corporate elite here, no because they all participate and largely control the trade system for their financial and success. Wonder why wages were stagnant for 30-40 years? Wonder why we have a harder time making ends meet in this country? Wonder why some of our education systems face financial emergencies? Wonder why that evil bad 1% has gotten where they are? Wonder why our infrastructure lags other nations? And so much more...crime, drugs...so much of it can be pinned on misguided trade policy.

I mean we can just keep riding that if it is so good. Personally, if everything was made in China I wouldn't personally lose or benefit either way. I just have a principled position with no direct dog in the fight or gain to make.

If we think that things are so good, then we can just keep with the economic policy of Reagan and Bush l and Clinton and Bush ll and Obama, because it has all been the same on trade policy. Maybe everyone is cool with that. I am continually surprised to see so many who apparently are.

This administration and this President needs an overarching policy on trade. In absence of that, we will get these unintended consequences and confusion and finger pointing. Trying to reverse course is not a bad thing. It is very difficult and it will create winners and losers. Winners will be those foreign and domestic companies who invest and produce goods and services that our country needs here. And those that lose will be foreign companies relying on imports and domestic companies relying on exports. There will still be trade, just as there was always trade even with tariff schedules reached the 60% threshold. Preference should be given to those who do it here. The long term benefit will be a stronger more self sufficient and richer nation. Frankly, the necessary policy and outlook to enact all of this is lacking. I may be fearful of how it could play out but I remain steadfast in the belief that there is much that is wrong with our current system and much needs changed.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 03:02 PM
sorry, i knew i should have fact checked myself

" laid off 60 of its 500 workers last week "

500 jobs gone, i suppose maybe those jobs support 250 more?

still 750 jobs gone

ok i don't know how many they support, lol, 560 gone

Bottom Line.....Unintended Consequences

[Edited on 6/27/2018 by LeglizHemp]

 

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Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

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Peach Head



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 03:37 PM
I think itís interesting that now we see republicans trashing Reagan and both Bush presidents along with the usual Clinton/Obama rags. It contradicts everything they have preached for years but thatís a different party now. They havenít won a presidential election with a conservative since Bush Sr.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 04:04 PM
quote:
I think itís interesting that now we see republicans trashing Reagan and both Bush presidents along with the usual Clinton/Obama rags. It contradicts everything they have preached for years but thatís a different party now. They havenít won a presidential election with a conservative since Bush Sr.


Well that would be interesting except you should not assume such with me. I am not a Republican and while my friends here may not agree with me, I know they would confirm that I have been nothing but consistent on my trade views for as long as I have been posting in the whipping post. Please don't assume, it has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with my long held beliefs.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 04:18 PM
i can vouch for that. die hard Buy American man. he walks the walk and i admire that.

 

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Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair

Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

Are they crazy?,

Are they sainted?

Are they zeros someone painted?,

It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 05:07 PM
I wasnít directing that at you but just in general. Ive heard it often here lately.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 05:34 PM
"The government should restrict the ability for a corporation to move production outside of this country when the primary market for their product remains the US."


Trump said that companies that offshore production would face "retribution and consequences". Has anyone heard what the retribution and consequences are going to be for the Trump clothing products made in Mexico, China, and India might be ?

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 06:28 PM
quote:
"The government should restrict the ability for a corporation to move production outside of this country when the primary market for their product remains the US."


Trump said that companies that offshore production would face "retribution and consequences". Has anyone heard what the retribution and consequences are going to be for the Trump clothing products made in Mexico, China, and India might be ?


Iím sure they will be exempted. He has gotten downright personal with Harley Davidson. They done exactly as expected with their tax cut. Bought back stock and fired workers.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/27/2018 at 08:07 PM
quote:
i can vouch for that. die hard Buy American man. he walks the walk and i admire that.


Hemp and I have gone around on this issue on numerous occasions.

I do not believe we have swayed each other's opinion, but I hope you value my position and comments as I value yours Tim.

quote:
I wasnít directing that at you but just in general. Ive heard it often here lately.


Thank you. I can see how you could've made that mistake based on what I said without knowing me or without the benefit of seeing many years of posts I've made on the subject.

You are right, Republicans who support the President are having to separate themselves from all the free trade theory they have lived, breathed and ate their entire lives. Figuring out how to spin it to defend the President is quite a challenge and quite hypocritical for just about every Republican I can think of.

While less so, I also find it curious now that so many progressives are defending the virtues of free markets and also Congressmen, like the ones from my state Sherrod Brown and Tim Ryan for instance, have to try and figure out a way to oppose the President's trade policy because it is Trump, so they have to oppose it, even though they have talked tough on trade their entire time in elected office, yet have little to show for that talk.

Just from the outside looking in, it certainly is an interesting paradox for people in these parties to grapple with.

quote:
"The government should restrict the ability for a corporation to move production outside of this country when the primary market for their product remains the US."


Trump said that companies that offshore production would face "retribution and consequences". Has anyone heard what the retribution and consequences are going to be for the Trump clothing products made in Mexico, China, and India might be ?


I am happy every time you or anyone brings this up because it should never be forgotten that Trump could have led by example and had his items made in the USA. A huge opportunity was missed and there is nothing wrong with continually holding that over his head.

 
 


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