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Author: Subject: Supreme Court rules 7-2 for Religious Liberty

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:39 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The Bakery owner has the right to refuse service to anyone he pleases, be they tall, blue. stupid or from another planet.


Actually, you can't refuse service to a protected class (race, color, religion or national origin). Orientation, however, isn't a protected class at the Federal level.

SCOTUS deftly avoided any larger issue by simply ruling that the Colorado Civil Rights officials overstepped their bounds.

These types of cases are far from over. The religious aspect of protected class is going to come up sooner rather than later.

This is all true but in this era of extreme intellectual laziness, the SCOTUS decision is a win for right anyhow. I mean, look at the thread title to see what I mean.

Who has the authority to add LGBTQ to list of protected class citizens, does it have to go to SCOTUS again or?


Congress. Current law was established by the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:41 AM
quote:
Question for Mule. If a baker refused to bake a wedding cake for someone because he found out it was their third marriage and his religion prohibited divorce, would that be OK with you?


This is where a case like this gets tough. I think most people would agree that someone shouldn't be denied entrance into a restaurant for any reason other than dress/comportment/noise. But baking a cake - I think its different.

And what if a caterer is Hallal or Kosher and someone wants them to do a pig roast. Think that is a no-brainer - but how much different is it than the baker being religiously against something

Again; I don't think a place of business (hotel/restaurant) should be able to turn anyone away. Crafted items; different issue

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:51 AM
quote:
quote:
The Bakery owner has the right to refuse service to anyone he pleases, be they tall, blue. stupid or from another planet.


Actually, you can't refuse service to a protected class (race, color, religion or national origin). Orientation, however, isn't a protected class at the Federal level


"At the federal level"..

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:51 AM
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"I think the most important thing for us that we want people to understand is that the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act is still fully in effect in Colorado. "Nothing has changed about that. It is still illegal to turn a gay couple away from a business just because of who they are." Dave Mullins

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:53 AM
quote:
Then you attacked me.


omg

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:54 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
The Bakery owner has the right to refuse service to anyone he pleases, be they tall, blue. stupid or from another planet.


Actually, you can't refuse service to a protected class (race, color, religion or national origin). Orientation, however, isn't a protected class at the Federal level.

SCOTUS deftly avoided any larger issue by simply ruling that the Colorado Civil Rights officials overstepped their bounds.

These types of cases are far from over. The religious aspect of protected class is going to come up sooner rather than later.

This is all true but in this era of extreme intellectual laziness, the SCOTUS decision is a win for right anyhow. I mean, look at the thread title to see what I mean.

Who has the authority to add LGBTQ to list of protected class citizens, does it have to go to SCOTUS again or?


Congress. Current law was established by the Civil Rights Act of 1964.



Well I reckon they need to get on that then.

Any day now, right?


No political stomach for that, which is why its been left to the states.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:58 AM
quote:
And what if a caterer is Hallal or Kosher and someone wants them to do a pig roast. Think that is a no-brainer - but how much different is it than the baker being religiously against something


"We don't prepare pork in our kitchens," - legal

"We don't serve Christians," - illegal

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 12:02 PM
quote:
quote:
And what if a caterer is Hallal or Kosher and someone wants them to do a pig roast. Think that is a no-brainer - but how much different is it than the baker being religiously against something


"We don't prepare pork in our kitchens," - legal

"We don't serve Christians," - illegal


Fair enough.

"I don't serve the LGBT community" - illegal

"I don't serve whiny, rude people. Please leave my store" - legal

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 12:06 PM
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What a couple of whining children, they act like 99 bakeries in a row told them NO! Most sane people would say.. "This guy is a clown. let's take our business somewhere where we are appreciated"..But not these two!...


quote:
"Tolerance"!...screams the left...But then can't handle it when anybody disagrees..



 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 12:09 PM
quote:
"I don't serve the LGBT community" - illegal


Depending on what state you are in, yes.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 01:52 PM
quote:
quote:
And what if a caterer is Hallal or Kosher and someone wants them to do a pig roast. Think that is a no-brainer - but how much different is it than the baker being religiously against something


"We don't prepare pork in our kitchens," - legal

"We don't serve Christians," - illegal


"We don't put decorations with two grooms on cakes" ?legal

"We don't serve LGBT" ? illegal

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 02:59 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
And what if a caterer is Hallal or Kosher and someone wants them to do a pig roast. Think that is a no-brainer - but how much different is it than the baker being religiously against something


"We don't prepare pork in our kitchens," - legal

"We don't serve Christians," - illegal


"We don't put decorations with two grooms on cakes" ?legal

"We don't serve LGBT" ? illegal


"We don't serve LGBT" ? illegal <---All depends on what state you live in.

Same-sex relations and same-sex marriage are allowed by Federal Law and are free from discrimination. After that, it gets very complicated.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 04:30 PM
While organized religion is bad, it sure is fun to watch.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 06:51 PM
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While organized religion is bad, it sure is fun to watch.


Not a huge fan of slapstick comedy myself. Although some of the sci-fi and horror is pretty good.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 07:37 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
And what if a caterer is Hallal or Kosher and someone wants them to do a pig roast. Think that is a no-brainer - but how much different is it than the baker being religiously against something


"We don't prepare pork in our kitchens," - legal

"We don't serve Christians," - illegal


Fair enough.

"I don't serve the LGBT community" - illegal

"I don't serve whiny, rude people. Please leave my store" - legal


Great workaround. Anti-discrimination laws be damned!


Do whiny and rude people come in one color or sexual preference?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 07:44 PM
“The reason and motive for the baker’s refusal were based on his sincere religious beliefs and convictions"
From Justice Kennedy

Do the beliefs and convictions of the LGBT community override those with sincere Religious faith?

7-2

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 08:37 PM
quote:
What a couple of whining children, they act like 99 bakeries in a row told them NO! Most sane people would say.. "This guy is a clown. let's take our business somewhere where we are appreciated"..But not these two!...



quote:
"Tolerance"!...screams the left...But then can't handle it when anybody disagrees..



"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley





[Edited on 6/6/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 09:24 PM
quote:
quote:
What a couple of whining children, they act like 99 bakeries in a row told them NO! Most sane people would say.. "This guy is a clown. let's take our business somewhere where we are appreciated"..But not these two!...



quote:
"Tolerance"!...screams the left...But then can't handle it when anybody disagrees..



"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley


Maybe it's just because I see and hear such hypocrisy in those that scream for tolerance and then will not tolerate a dissenting opinion. In this case the "offended" couple went straight to the ACLU and filed suit. Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?

I'll ask that again...Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 09:55 PM
quote:
Maybe it's just because I see and hear such hypocrisy in those that scream for tolerance and then will not tolerate a dissenting opinion.


Then why are you doing it to the gay couple if you despise it so much? Serious question.

quote:
In this case the "offended" couple went straight to the ACLU and filed suit. Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?

I'll ask that again...Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?


Most people would probably say they showed tolerance by following due process. If someone believes their rights have been violated, why is excercising their right to file a civil suit to have a judge hear your case objectionable to you?





[Edited on 6/6/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 10:06 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
What a couple of whining children, they act like 99 bakeries in a row told them NO! Most sane people would say.. "This guy is a clown. let's take our business somewhere where we are appreciated"..But not these two!...



quote:
"Tolerance"!...screams the left...But then can't handle it when anybody disagrees..



"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley


Maybe it's just because I see and hear such hypocrisy in those that scream for tolerance and then will not tolerate a dissenting opinion. In this case the "offended" couple went straight to the ACLU and filed suit. Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?

I'll ask that again...Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?


It was in the same place that Mr. Phillips’ tolerance for the gay couple was. Or is the gay couple not eligible for any tolerance since they don’t think like you do? You constantly whine about the “tolerant left” while you have no tolerance for anyone who disagrees with you. There is a word that describes people like that. I’ll let you figure out what it is.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:02 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
What a couple of whining children, they act like 99 bakeries in a row told them NO! Most sane people would say.. "This guy is a clown. let's take our business somewhere where we are appreciated"..But not these two!...



quote:
"Tolerance"!...screams the left...But then can't handle it when anybody disagrees..



"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley


Maybe it's just because I see and hear such hypocrisy in those that scream for tolerance and then will not tolerate a dissenting opinion. In this case the "offended" couple went straight to the ACLU and filed suit. Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?

I'll ask that again...Where was their "Tolerance" of Mr. Phillips' beliefs?


It was in the same place that Mr. Phillips’ tolerance for the gay couple was. Or is the gay couple not eligible for any tolerance since they don’t think like you do?


There you go making it about Color. Race or Gender, Always the assumption....You are for the offended and I stand for the business owner. It could have been two young white skateboarders, asking for a cake with a Swastika. I don't care......

Since the action triggered their reaction, just how difficult would it have been to have just found another Bakery? Wouldn't that have been the epitome of tolerance? Or had they said "Oh, we understand and appreciate your Religious views, we'll find a bakery better suited to our needs". But see, we've no idea as to who spoke the first "Mean" words in the Bakery...Either someone was offended or someone was very rude....take your pick. My whole point is that tolerance is a two way street and yes, that would include and immediate response that you find unacceptable. Imho. anything beyond that is an argument and then, you are both wrong.

"He started it"!...For adult's sake, be the bigger people and just walk away, hit him in the wallet, take your business to someone who will treat you with the respect you deserve.

Once again I find the hypocrisy almost humorous.



 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2018 at 11:39 PM
It was a fair decision. Anyone gloating over it being a gay smackdown has missed the point and is out to lunch shoveling down idiot stew, because the sword of liberty is double edged and can cut them just the same.

(btw I think ol JC would have made them a real good cake, maybe using the opprtunity for a parable or at least one or two solid one-liners, transform that raggedy old cake of contention into wondrous food for thought and sustenance for the soul.)

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2018 at 07:15 AM
quote:
“The reason and motive for the baker’s refusal were based on his sincere religious beliefs and convictions"
From Justice Kennedy

Do the beliefs and convictions of the LGBT community override those with sincere Religious faith?

7-2




Well...thing is, Colorado has an anti-discrimination law on the books that prohibits discrimination based on orientation.

This is why this particular baker has been very consistent and careful to say "I serve everyone, I just don't make custom cakes for all occasions."

The couple filed a complaint per the parameters of the Colorado law. In their view, it wasn't about tolerance, it was about discrimination.

SCOTUS completely punted on the matter of LGBT rights. All they ruled on was that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission unfairly discounted religious belief.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/6/2018 at 08:17 AM
quote:
You are for the offended


Do you feel this way about all people who file a civil suit?

quote:
and I stand for the business owner. It could have been two young white skateboarders, asking for a cake with a Swastika. I don't care......


Odd comparison....what’s the relation?

quote:
Since the action triggered their reaction, just how difficult would it have been to have just found another Bakery? Wouldn't that have been the epitome of tolerance?


Exercising due process, having a judge settle the dispute, is America. Why does that bother you?
quote:
Or had they said "Oh, we understand and appreciate your Religious views, we'll find a bakery better suited to our needs". But see, we've no idea as to who spoke the first "Mean" words in the Bakery...Either someone was offended or someone was very rude....take your pick. My whole point is that tolerance is a two way street and yes, that would include and immediate response that you find unacceptable. Imho. anything beyond that is an argument and then, you are both wrong.


Sounds like you are the one offended by an American asking for due process....strange.


quote:
Once again I find the hypocrisy almost humorous.


Same here! Read your Buckley quote, and then read your posts about the gay couple’s decision to exercise due process. Humorous indeed.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2018 at 03:51 PM
A 7-2 decision which included two of the court's left-wing justices.

Of course if you read the lefties responses it appears they don't believe in the court upholding someone's Constitutional rights.

The far-left's ideology loses again.


 
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