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Author: Subject: Immigration issues back on the table

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2018 at 08:56 AM
Some thoughts on immigration

We should offer citizenship to people from El Savador who are losing there protective status.

While calling countries "s**tholes" was a terrible thing to say I believe the worst part of what he said was starting the sentence with why. This post I found on reddit sums it up pretty well.

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7pv08v/a_new_low_the_world_is_fur ious_at_trump_for_his/dsk8sbi/

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2018 at 10:06 AM
quote:
Speaking of 25% of things....California imports 26% of the electricity they consume, Cali can thank Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Utah, Wyoming, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas for keeping the lights on.


So, eff California then?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2018 at 04:44 PM
quote:
quote:
Speaking of 25% of things....California imports 26% of the electricity they consume, Cali can thank Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Utah, Wyoming, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas for keeping the lights on.


So, eff California then?


No. Why would that quote make you ask a question like that? Cali is great at alot of things, but they aren't self sufficient in every area. That was just a little tit-for-tat reply to 2112's post.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2018 at 07:40 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Speaking of 25% of things....California imports 26% of the electricity they consume, Cali can thank Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Utah, Wyoming, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas for keeping the lights on.


So, eff California then?


No. Why would that quote make you ask a question like that? Cali is great at alot of things, but they aren't self sufficient in every area. That was just a little tit-for-tat reply to 2112's post.


Nobody is self sufficient, certainly not the USA. My point is that many on the right like to bash blue states and California in perticular, the blue states are the economic engine for the country and provide the vast majority of the tax money that keeps the USA afloat. Not saying that red states don't contribute. Texas provides significant tax revenue to the US, and Texas, Oklahoma and Alaska provide significant oil. But if the red wants to wall off California, then I'd like to know how they would like to replace the tax revenue that California provides, as most red states take way more money from the feds than they contribute.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/16/2018 at 07:25 PM
quote:
quote:
So, the American people will watch liberals refuse proposed border security measurements and democrats think tney can lock up 2018 elections in Nov.? Think again. Americans will watch as democrats would rather neglect border security and keep America weak and let the drugs and bad hombres continue to stream across by refusing provisions for a border wall in DACA reform.






Can you answer this from response to your previous post?

Your thoughts on why Trump no longer mentions Mexico paying for the wall? He religiously campaigned on this. As a supporter of his, you should be able to provide detail other than Mexico will reimburse the American taxpayer later.


Mexico WILL PAY. someway, somehow, through indirect costs, or NAFTA concessions, the US will recoup the costs of border enhancements. That is my thoughts on Trumps wall promises

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/16/2018 at 08:36 PM
The left wants to shut down the Federal Government unless they get blanket amnesty for illegal aliens.

Make perfect sense since the left is against National Security and the law.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/16/2018 at 09:05 PM
Mexicans are laughing at the stupid border wall, that is only being built to appease the insecure scared Trump supporters. Most of these morons don't realize the majority of illegal aliens in this country come by plane legally and just never leave. Only a small percentage come from border crossings, but if it makes dip sh*ts like Goober feel better, then go ahead and build it. I'll laugh along with the Mexicans at the stupidity of the whole thing. It's a proven fact that those who struggle financially and professinally are the ones that are outraged at illegal immigration - gee, I wonder why.
 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 07:36 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
So, the American people will watch liberals refuse proposed border security measurements and democrats think tney can lock up 2018 elections in Nov.? Think again. Americans will watch as democrats would rather neglect border security and keep America weak and let the drugs and bad hombres continue to stream across by refusing provisions for a border wall in DACA reform.






Can you answer this from response to your previous post?

Your thoughts on why Trump no longer mentions Mexico paying for the wall? He religiously campaigned on this. As a supporter of his, you should be able to provide detail other than Mexico will reimburse the American taxpayer later.


Mexico WILL PAY. someway, somehow, through indirect costs, or NAFTA concessions, the US will recoup the costs of border enhancements. That is my thoughts on Trumps wall promises


Nope, not a chance in hell. Mexico will never pay for it, even indirectly. If the wall ever gets built, and I seriously doubt it ever will, it will be on the backs of middle class US taxpayers.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 08:16 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
So, the American people will watch liberals refuse proposed border security measurements and democrats think tney can lock up 2018 elections in Nov.? Think again. Americans will watch as democrats would rather neglect border security and keep America weak and let the drugs and bad hombres continue to stream across by refusing provisions for a border wall in DACA reform.






Can you answer this from response to your previous post?

Your thoughts on why Trump no longer mentions Mexico paying for the wall? He religiously campaigned on this. As a supporter of his, you should be able to provide detail other than Mexico will reimburse the American taxpayer later.


Mexico WILL PAY. someway, somehow, through indirect costs, or NAFTA concessions, the US will recoup the costs of border enhancements. That is my thoughts on Trumps wall promises


Nope, not a chance in hell. Mexico will never pay for it, even indirectly. If the wall ever gets built, and I seriously doubt it ever will, it will be on the backs of middle class US taxpayers.

X2

And most of Trump believers probably have forgotten this when little Donnie talked with Mexican President Enrique PeŮa Nieto about the wall.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/345117-trump-asked-mexican-presi dent-to-stop-publicly-saying-his-government

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 06:04 PM
And before anyone says Mexico will pay for the wall through a tax on imported goods, that's not Mexico paying for the wall. That's US taxpayers paying for the wall.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 07:22 PM
quote:
Mexicans are laughing at the stupid border wall, that is only being built to appease the insecure scared Trump supporters. Most of these morons don't realize the majority of illegal aliens in this country come by plane legally and just never leave. Only a small percentage come from border crossings, but if it makes dip sh*ts like Goober feel better, then go ahead and build it. I'll laugh along with the Mexicans at the stupidity of the whole thing. It's a proven fact that those who struggle financially and professinally are the ones that are outraged at illegal immigration - gee, I wonder why.


Is this a concession that Mexico has very little respect for our laws?...Sure reads like it.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 08:37 PM
quote:
quote:
Mexicans are laughing at the stupid border wall, that is only being built to appease the insecure scared Trump supporters. Most of these morons don't realize the majority of illegal aliens in this country come by plane legally and just never leave. Only a small percentage come from border crossings, but if it makes dip sh*ts like Goober feel better, then go ahead and build it. I'll laugh along with the Mexicans at the stupidity of the whole thing. It's a proven fact that those who struggle financially and professinally are the ones that are outraged at illegal immigration - gee, I wonder why.


Is this a concession that Mexico has very little respect for our laws?...Sure reads like it.


So, do you think we have more respect for Mexico's laws than they have for ours?

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 08:51 PM
According to Boyton, the majority of the illegal immigration problem can be solved at the JFK terminal as the border is secure. Wowwweee. just unbelievable.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 09:00 PM
quote:
Is this a concession that Mexico has very little respect for our laws?...Sure reads like it.


I bet it does for you. Interpret it as you wish. You hate them, I donít care.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 09:02 PM
quote:
According to Boyton, the majority of the illegal immigration problem can be solved at the JFK terminal as the border is secure. Wowwweee. just unbelievable.


How would an airport solve the problem of visa holders not leaving, which is what my post is about. Did you not pick that up genius? You know visa holders fly here, right? Woweee is right. You arenít too bright are you.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 09:24 PM
quote:
quote:
Is this a concession that Mexico has very little respect for our laws?...Sure reads like it.


I bet it does for you. Interpret it as you wish. You hate them, I donít care.


"Hate" ? Back that up...Show me where I've used that word, I'll wait.

Typical

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 09:32 PM
quote:
"Hate" ? Back that up...Show me where I've used that word, I'll wait.

Typical


I donít think the KKK uses the word ďhateĒ either.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 11:08 PM
quote:
And before anyone says Mexico will pay for the wall through a tax on imported goods, that's not Mexico paying for the wall. That's US taxpayers paying for the wall.


To the extent that any business passes on the cost of employment, energy, taxes, any increases to their overhead and operating expenses that might dent their margins...Yes, companies pass along a number of costs to the consumers.

The United States should levy a tariff on all imports, and the effect is two-fold. One, it penalizes the foreign production and if the cost impact is significant enough, consumers will search for alternatives, presumably alternatives that have not been impacted by the cost increase of a tariff, ie items made in the USA. Two, it provides a revenue stream for the federal government to do with as they wish...public education, secondary education, law enforcement, entitlement funding, infrastructure, etc, etc, etc.

So, over the course of time, the targeted countries/regions may experience a financial loss from the tariff in terms of less employment, fewer companies locating production there and the loss of their own tax revenue from that lost economic activity resulting from the tariff. That is a 'cost' to their nations and economies. And our country receives the benefit of added tax revenue and also added employment opportunities as companies shift production back to our market and employ our workers while boosting our economic activity thanks to the tariff.

It is interesting, because in general, if Bernie Sanders were promoting a tariff, we'd have any number of Democrats voicing support for it's economic merits. But when a Republican mentions a tariff it get's dismissed as foolish and only raises costs on consumers. Yep.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2018 at 11:48 PM
quote:
quote:
And before anyone says Mexico will pay for the wall through a tax on imported goods, that's not Mexico paying for the wall. That's US taxpayers paying for the wall.


To the extent that any business passes on the cost of employment, energy, taxes, any increases to their overhead and operating expenses that might dent their margins...Yes, companies pass along a number of costs to the consumers.

The United States should levy a tariff on all imports, and the effect is two-fold. One, it penalizes the foreign production and if the cost impact is significant enough, consumers will search for alternatives, presumably alternatives that have not been impacted by the cost increase of a tariff, ie items made in the USA. Two, it provides a revenue stream for the federal government to do with as they wish...public education, secondary education, law enforcement, entitlement funding, infrastructure, etc, etc, etc.

So, over the course of time, the targeted countries/regions may experience a financial loss from the tariff in terms of less employment, fewer companies locating production there and the loss of their own tax revenue from that lost economic activity resulting from the tariff. That is a 'cost' to their nations and economies. And our country receives the benefit of added tax revenue and also added employment opportunities as companies shift production back to our market and employ our workers while boosting our economic activity thanks to the tariff.

It is interesting, because in general, if Bernie Sanders were promoting a tariff, we'd have any number of Democrats voicing support for it's economic merits. But when a Republican mentions a tariff it get's dismissed as foolish and only raises costs on consumers. Yep.


You bring up a whole different discussion, but keep in mind that any tariff on goods coming from Mexico is going to be met with a tariff from Mexico on US goods being imported into Mexico. I'm not sure which country would benefit more, but what I do know is that if your goal is to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico, the worst thing you can do is to destroy or even harm their economy. The fewer the employment opportunities at home, the more they will look north, and a wall won't even slow them down. I guarantee the shovel and ladder industries won't be the industries to suffer.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2018 at 08:19 AM
quote:
You bring up a whole different discussion, but keep in mind that any tariff on goods coming from Mexico is going to be met with a tariff from Mexico on US goods being imported into Mexico. I'm not sure which country would benefit more, but what I do know is that if your goal is to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico, the worst thing you can do is to destroy or even harm their economy. The fewer the employment opportunities at home, the more they will look north, and a wall won't even slow them down. I guarantee the shovel and ladder industries won't be the industries to suffer.


I wanted to briefly make a case for broad use of a tariff on imported goods. As it applies here, I think a tariff on Mexican goods and services is a fine way to fund immigration related expenses, just as tariffs on other countries could fund other programs and expenditures in our country. You are right, we tax imports, some other countries are going to tax our exports. I could, and have, and will again I'm sure in different threads, contend the net result is a good one for our country - there will domestic winners and losers, not everyone will win - that is impossible to create such an arrangement. My point is that it would be a better system that what we operate under now.

I am sure you are aware of the impact NAFTA had on illegal immigration from Mexico. It didn't keep Mexicans from coming here illegally, in fact it fueled it. And that was supposed to help the Mexican economy. So I'm not worried about a tax on imports creating more illegal immigration, we already did the reverse of that and paid for it with surges of illegals.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2018 at 11:57 AM
quote:
quote:
"Hate" ? Back that up...Show me where I've used that word, I'll wait.

Typical


I donít think the KKK uses the word ďhateĒ either.


Your lack of tact and accusatory style leaves me speechless; it is almost impossible to interact with you if an opposing viewpoint exists.

I believe Mexico has little respect for our laws and tire of the financial burden to taxpayers placed on them by those who choose to come here illegally. That opinion warrants the comparison to the KKK?

Absolutely amazing, but I am no longer surprised.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2018 at 02:27 PM
quote:
Your lack of tact and accusatory style leaves me speechless; it is almost impossible to interact with you if an opposing viewpoint exists.


You feel accused?

quote:
I believe Mexico has little respect for our laws and tire of the financial burden to taxpayers placed on them by those who choose to come here illegally. That opinion warrants the comparison to the KKK?


No, you silly goose! Your notion that i canít claim you hate them simply because you never wrote the actual word ďhateĒ, warrants that comparison. I would never suggest your positions are similar to the KKK.

But your takeaway from the Illegal alien issue is that they are disrespectful and a burden. To me, thatís an extremely ignorant and hateful opinion to have about a people who flee to avoid violence and starvation. A better man directs his anger at the Mexican government for not doing anything to help its people. Itís your constant disparaging remarks about them for years, that warrants my opinion that you hate them.




[Edited on 1/18/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2018 at 05:05 PM
quote:
But your takeaway from the Illegal alien issue is that they are disrespectful and a burden.


They are. Note the word "Illegal", as in showing disrespect for the first law of this land they encounter.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2018 at 05:28 PM
quote:
It is interesting, because in general, if Bernie Sanders were promoting a tariff, we'd have any number of Democrats voicing support for it's economic merits. But when a Republican mentions a tariff it get's dismissed as foolish and only raises costs on consumers. Yep.


I'd lay even odds that most Americans couldn't tell you what a tariff is, regardless of party.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2018 at 06:31 PM
quote:
quote:
You bring up a whole different discussion, but keep in mind that any tariff on goods coming from Mexico is going to be met with a tariff from Mexico on US goods being imported into Mexico. I'm not sure which country would benefit more, but what I do know is that if your goal is to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico, the worst thing you can do is to destroy or even harm their economy. The fewer the employment opportunities at home, the more they will look north, and a wall won't even slow them down. I guarantee the shovel and ladder industries won't be the industries to suffer.


I wanted to briefly make a case for broad use of a tariff on imported goods. As it applies here, I think a tariff on Mexican goods and services is a fine way to fund immigration related expenses, just as tariffs on other countries could fund other programs and expenditures in our country. You are right, we tax imports, some other countries are going to tax our exports. I could, and have, and will again I'm sure in different threads, contend the net result is a good one for our country - there will domestic winners and losers, not everyone will win - that is impossible to create such an arrangement. My point is that it would be a better system that what we operate under now.

I am sure you are aware of the impact NAFTA had on illegal immigration from Mexico. It didn't keep Mexicans from coming here illegally, in fact it fueled it. And that was supposed to help the Mexican economy. So I'm not worried about a tax on imports creating more illegal immigration, we already did the reverse of that and paid for it with surges of illegals.


I'm also sure you realize that with increased tariffs on imported goods comes with increased consumer prices, which likely will slow retail sales. Every action has some kind of resulting effect. Chances are that any slight increase in US manufacturing will come with a significant decrease in retail sales due to higher prices. That's why protectionist policies generally don't sour economic growth. I'm not generally opposed to putting tariffs on goods to level the playing field based on environmental regulations, etc. But not to build an unnecessary wall for political purposes.

 
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