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Author: Subject: trump's publicity stunt cost taxpayers over $240,000

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 12:22 PM
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 12:28 PM
quote:
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.


The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 12:52 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.


The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.


Once again, you and I see things differently. Walk up to a man in uniform and tell him what the Flag is supposed to stand for.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 12:59 PM
quote:

Actually the planning skills was said tongue-in-cheek. I give him very little credit, as that is something that has to be earned. He hasn't earned much in 9 months.


Apologies. I think it was off the top of his head & he was forced to wait until there was another game before he could enact his little revenge/fit/show/whatever. He doesn't like to wait, but he does hold long grudges.

I'd hate to be in logistics for either #1 or #2. Whiplash springs to mind.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 01:35 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.


The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.


Once again, you and I see things differently. Walk up to a man in uniform and tell him what the Flag is supposed to stand for.


So what does the Costa Rican flag stand for? They have no standing army.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 01:51 PM
quote:


its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.


Outside of the fact that is a stupid "what if" comparison, where was your outage at tim tebow taking a knee during the anthem when he played???

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 02:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.


The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.


Once again, you and I see things differently. Walk up to a man in uniform and tell him what the Flag is supposed to stand for.


Exactly. And the NFL players see it differently, as do some in uniform. But you seem to 5hink everyone should think like you. My point is that the protests have nothing to do with the flag.

BTW, the flag is ther3 for 5he entire game. They kneel for the National Anthem. But it is about the flag, right?

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 02:07 PM
For those offended/annoyed by taking a knee still, get the F over it already or stop watching! If you come on here next week all upset that players are still kneeling, it's your own dumb fault for turning on the game. Maybe football isn't for you if taking a knee upsets you so much.
 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 03:26 PM
quote:
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.


Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 03:37 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.


Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.


Good points...good post.

The problem is that the facts you've presented seem to get in the way of what some want to make & misrepresent of the flag, amendments, and intentions of protest. They've attempted to connect dots that really don't connect which makes the premise of their argument more a personal belief as opposed to being grounded in fact.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 04:14 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.


Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.


Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.


Good points...good post.

The problem is that the facts you've presented seem to get in the way of what some want to make & misrepresent of the flag, amendments, and intentions of protest. They've attempted to connect dots that really don't connect which makes the premise of their argument more a personal belief as opposed to being grounded in fact.


Agree. The flag has been co-opted to mean something that flags were never intended to mean.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 05:40 PM
quote:
Agree. The flag has been co-opted to mean something that flags were never intended to mean.


Each branch of the military has its own unique flag. When the military flies the US flag, it represents all those they are fighting for (hint: us). So ask yourself, is there any other nation that when you see their flag, you first think about that nation's military?



[Edited on 10/9/2017 by porkchopbob]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 06:16 PM
quote:
quote:


its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.


Outside of the fact that is a stupid "what if" comparison, where was your outage at tim tebow taking a knee during the anthem when he played???


Tim Tebow? Please. For whatever reason, I have disdain for anyone who will not stand for the anthem.

Your mileage may vary

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 06:39 PM
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For those offended/annoyed by taking a knee still, get the F over it already or stop watching! If you come on here next week all upset that players are still kneeling, it's your own dumb fault for turning on the game. Maybe football isn't for you if taking a knee upsets you so much.


I will continue to watch the NFL and will continue to "be bothered" by the actions they believe in.

I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 08:48 PM


An Open Letter of Support for Colin Kaepernick From American Military Veterans

from: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/an-open-letter-from -american-military-veterans-in-support-of-colin-kaepernick/amp/

by Rhiannon Walker, Sept. 2

U.S. Army veteran Richard Allen Smith felt like he was walking with a rock in his shoe all day. In the aftermath of Colin Kaepernick’s protest of the national anthem, Smith heard a lot about how he had been disrespected by what the San Francisco 49ers quarterback had done and said from a lot of folks who never served in the armed forces.

Kaepernick has been sitting during the singing of The Star Spangled Banner the entire preseason, although it was only noticed last Friday when he was dressed to play. In an exclusive interview with NFL.com’s Steve Wyche, Kaepernick explained his protest: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way.”

Smith said that people burning the quarterback’s jersey “with the troops and veterans being the reason seemed ridiculous.” Being used wasn’t a new feeling. Smith said politicians and corporations often use the military and its servicemen and women for promotion. That leaves some veterans, like Smith, feeling like props for people who haven’t made the sacrifice, but want to cloak themselves in their credibility.

By writing this letter, which was written on Medium, it was an opportunity for him and other vets to counter that rationale.
Although the 31-year-old works as a media strategist with the National Education Association, the letter was thought of, created and crafted as something entirely outside of his job and among some of Smith’s friends and colleagues.

One of the most important things about the letter is the diversity of the people signing it and the reasons that they are putting their names on it.

“I wanted to put something out there in the world … to say that ‘There are veterans who not only agree with Colin Kaepernick’s right to do that, but also agree with the substance of the action,’ ” Smith said. “And are willing to stand up and say Black Lives Matter and this is an important issue that we need to address in our country.

“This is an incredibly diverse list of people. I didn’t know how many signatures I was going to get – if I’m going to get five or 10 signatures on this letter. … There’s diversity in service – every branch of the service is represented here – there are black people, white people, Latinos, a Native American person on here. Gay veterans, straight veterans, female veterans, male veterans from both coast to southeast, to southwest, the heartland, pretty much any sort of identity you can imagine, it’s signed onto this letter in the form of one person or more.”

* * * *

An Open Letter of Support for Colin Kaepernick From American Military Veterans

https://medium.com/@VetsForKaep/an-open-letter-of-support-for-colin-kaepern ick-from-american-military-veterans-cda9bffb764c


In 1947, former Army officer Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball. Robinson experienced taunts, epithets, and threats of violence for simply standing up to the status quo of segregation in America.

Since 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick engaged in a silent protest to bring attention to the state of emergency facing people of color in America, a chorus of detractors have lined up to denounce his stand, or more accurately his sit. Fans have burned his jersey. A presidential candidate suggested he leave the country. Many have claimed his protest disrespected American veterans.

Jackie Robinson isn’t here today to tell us what he would think of Kaepernick’s protest. But he did convey the same sentiment about the national anthem as Kaepernick in his 1972 autobiography, writing, “I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world.”

As military veterans, we write to express our support for the tradition of advocacy by athletes that is embodied by Jackie Robinson and carried on by Colin Kaepernick.

For generations, American athletes have used their public voice to force our collective attention towards the crises and issues that challenge our national conscience. Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Tommie Smith, John Carlos, Ariyana Smith, the Minnesota Lynx, the Missouri Tigers football team, and stars across professional sports declaring that #BlackLivesMatter, are all part of a brave tradition of protest by athletes. Far from an anomaly, athletes leading on social change has been the norm in America. The right for those athletes, and all Americans, to protest is one we all pledged to defend with our lives if necessary. Far from disrespecting our troops, there is no finer form of appreciation for our sacrifice than for Americans to enthusiastically exercise their freedom of speech.

While we would not all personally choose to protest in a manner identical to Kaepernick, we respect and honor his choice, and whole heartedly join him in stating unequivocally that BLACK LIVES MATTER. The current state of affairs for people of color in America is unsustainable and unacceptable. According to analysis by the Washington Post, black people in America are two and a half times more likely to be shot and killed by police than white Americans. Far too often, people of color are dying at the hands of law enforcement personnel in the streets, our jails, and their homes. Indictments are rare and convictions are essentially nonexistent.

This status quo outrages us as men and women who raised our right hands and pledged to defend, with our lives if necessary, a Constitution that proclaims intent to “establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,” and “secure the Blessings of Liberty.” Those ideals are simply not being upheld for all Americans.

As veterans, we implore all Americans to find your own way to challenge this status quo and advocate for “a more perfect union.” Your method of protest may not be to refrain from the traditions surrounding our national symbols, and it doesn’t have to be. You have the same right as Colin Kaepernick to choose whether and how to advocate, a right we support and served for. However you choose to use your voice, please do so with an understanding that many veterans do not condemn the protest of activists like Jackie Robinson, Colin Kaepernick and everyday Americans seeking justice. Indeed, we see no higher form of patriotism.

Eric Baker, United States Army Veteran

Bill Barton, United States Air Force Veteran

Robert Bateman, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Iraqi Freedom

Jason Bensley, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Stephen Benson, United States Navy Veteran: Vietnam War

Keith Boyea, United States Air Force Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom

Xavier Burgos, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom

Tony Camerino, United States Air Force Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Stephanie Driessel, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

LeighAnn Dunn, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

David Ramiro Duran, United States Army Veteran

Robin Eckstein, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Rick Hegdahl, United States Navy Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Chris Holman, United States Army Veteran

Melanie Howie, United States Air Force Veteran

Mitchell Howie, United States Air Force Veteran

Keith Jeffreys, United States Army Veteran

Tara Jones, United States Navy Veteran: Gulf War Era

Jason Macon, United States Marine Corps Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Lamar Mapp, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom

Brian McGough, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Iraqi Freedom

Neal McGough, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom

Andrew Nixon, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom

Parker Ormsby, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom

Matt Osborne, United States Army Veteran

Jackie Rodgers, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Terron Sims II, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Richard Allen Smith, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom

Shannon Smyth, United States Air Force Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

Ryan Sullivan, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom

Mike Stark, United States Marine Corps Veteran

Armondo Telles, United States Marine Corps Veteran

Catherine Trombley, United States Air Force Veteran

Colm Walker, United Staes Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom

Bobby Wise, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom


[Edited on 10/10/2017 by BrerRabbit]

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 09:45 PM
quote:
I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.


I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 11:07 PM
quote:
quote:
I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.


I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.


A group of black protesters peacefully protesting in front of a police station is far more likely to cause an angry Tweet from our president than a group of white supremacist marching with nazis flags and tiki torches.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 12:24 AM
quote:
quote:
I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.


I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.


The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

 

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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 07:02 AM
This was/is a "big" topic of discussion here in Indy the last couple of days.


Kind overshadowed the other events that took place unfortunately.


David Letterman got a good laugh in!!!

Letterman started his speech making the crowd laugh, "4/12/47 I was born in Indianapolis. Lived here most of my life. Been on television 30 years, where the hell's my statue? I'm serious. If you can make one you can make two."


 

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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 07:27 AM
quote:
The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!


That's basically the attitude you take with the peaceful protestors - how dare they have a different definition of respect. We are not different in that regard. You have disdain for the peaceful protestors, and I have disdain for those who oppress. If kneeling with hands over their hearts is deemed too offensive to the point where the President urges firings in response, and half the country puts them down, there is no hope for them. No method of speaking up will ever gain the respect of some people.

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested, and met with sharp opposition from the entire right, what are some methods that you think would help their cause and get the same visibility?

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by BoytonBrother]

 

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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 08:25 AM
VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

 

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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 08:40 AM
quote:
Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested...
Right, because the cops have sure killed and arrested a whole lot of peaceful protesters since Trump became president.

Let me try to explain this in simpleton terms. Our flag represents our country as pointed out previously by one of you genius posters. But wait there is more...


Found from a book about the symbolism of the American Flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives we read:

"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."

The Symbolism of the Flag's ColorsAlternating in red and white, the 13 stripes also represent the 13 original colonies that joined together to declare their independence from Britain in order to establish themselves as a sovereign nation.

Originally, the colors red, white and blue had neither specific meaning nor representation when the flag was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal of the United States did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice."


The modern meaning of the flag was forged in December 1860, when Major Robert Anderson moved the U.S. garrison from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Author Adam Goodheart argues this was the opening move of the American Civil War, and the flag was used throughout northern states to symbolize American nationalism and rejection of secessionism.

Before that day, the flag had served mostly as a military ensign or a convenient marking of American territory, flown from forts, embassies, and ships, and displayed on special occasions like American Independence day. But in the weeks after Major Anderson's surprising stand, it became something different. Suddenly the Stars and Stripes flew—as it does today, and especially as it did after the September 11 attacks in 2001—from houses, from storefronts, from churches; above the village greens and college quads. For the first time American flags were mass-produced rather than individually stitched and even so, manufacturers could not keep up with demand. As the long winter of 1861 turned into spring, that old flag meant something new. The abstraction of the Union cause was transfigured into a physical thing: strips of cloth that millions of people would fight for, and many thousands die for.
– Adam Goodheart.[54]

The flag of the United States is one of the nation's most widely recognized symbols. Within the United States, flags are frequently displayed not only on public buildings but on private residences. The flag is a common motif on decals for car windows, and clothing ornaments such as badges and lapel pins. Throughout the world the flag has been used in public discourse to refer to the United States.

The flag has become a powerful symbol of Americanism, and is flown on many occasions, with giant outdoor flags used by retail outlets to draw customers. Desecration of the flag is considered a public outrage, but remains protected as freedom of speech. Scholars have noted the irony that "[t]he flag is so revered because it represents the land of the free, and that freedom includes the ability to use or abuse that flag in protest".[55] In worldwide comparison, Testi noted in 2010 that the United States was not unique in adoring its banner, for the flags of Scandinavian countries are also "beloved, domesticated, commercialized and sacralized objects"


Our flag represents a Free country. How did we get our freedom? We didn't just ask for it, we fought for it. Many died. How do we maintain our freedom? The same way. Who does the fighting that preserves our freedom, which includes the right to disrespect our flag, our country and those who have fought for those rights? It is shameful that anyone would think that this is an acceptable way to protest the police doing their jobs. Seems a lot of you folks that support this protest are the same ones that were screaming, "Hands up don't shoot". I would think you would learn not to believe everything you hear on CNN.

 

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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 08:40 AM
quote:
VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.


VP went to the game planning to leave regardless, at Trump's insistence. A few players peacefully protested against inequality and prejudice in this country, which the flag represents, as it is their right to do so. Pence peacefully and expensively counter protested, so I guess he's for inequality and prejudice. Is there any greater symbol of inequality than a white man protesting at the public's expense and being cheered by angry white men, while black men peacefully protest and are vilified? I'd say they made their point, some just refuse to see it.

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by porkchopbob]

 

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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 09:20 AM
They see the point, porkchop. They just agree with it.
 

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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 09:25 AM
quote:
They see the point, porkchop. They just agree with it.


I'm sure when they hear "Oh, Canada" they think of Canada's armed forces and not maple syrup.

 

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