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Author: Subject: Removal of Historical Monuments

Sublime Peach





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  posted on 8/26/2017 at 12:06 PM
I'm old school. I subscribe to the daily paper and I read it every morning.

This letter appeared in this morning's San Jose Mercury News. I agree with everything this person said, in fact I could not have said it better myself.

The headline says "Erasing past makes ignorance a virtue"

"Private monuments are free speech and private property. And the law protects both. Public monuments are archives of history and record the public's sentiment, priorities, and judgments at a time in the past.

The record of the public's sentiments and actions informs the present, and the current generation must know the full truth of it's past and the lessons that previous generations learned or failed to learn.

Destroying monuments and erasing the past is simply proclaiming ignorance to be a virtue. Every generation is entitled to the knowledge of it's past and in rendering judgment on it's history."

-T.G. Holford, San Jose

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/26/2017 at 08:25 PM
My sentiments exactly.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/27/2017 at 11:03 AM
And when are they ever going to finish that statue of Crazy Horse?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/27/2017 at 12:15 PM
Your point might make sense on the surface of it, if the monuments were put up by all the people, but these monuments were conceived, funded, and voted in by good ol boy special interest groups and no way did they represent American sentiment - I seriously doubt free slaves supported them, and the masses of immigrants had no clue.

If you looked at that graph posted here of when most of the monuments were built, it shows a huge spike in the early 1900s, right at the time of the wave of Civil War backlash, anti-immigrant fever and white supremacist "Birth of a Nation" sentiment that led to the election of Woodrow Wilson, a total ballsout racist, white supremacist.

It is money that put those up. Where are the statues of heroes and heroines that represent the ideals of people who didn't belong to Rotary Clubs, Masonics, DAR, SOC, as well as affiliated sub-groups like the KKK, and were connected to legislators who could push their monuments through?

The monuments are a special interest white supremacist farce, way past high time they were exposed as the elite folly they are.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/27/2017 at 12:31 PM
Today, on Facebook, from a musician friend of mine:

"I heard that the angry blues traditionalists want that statue of Stevie Ray Vaughan in Austin torn down..."

And more, from me: Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Should we burn all his records like they did in England in the 50's?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/28/2017 at 01:23 PM
Egyptian Pyramids - down - built with slave labor.
 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/28/2017 at 10:39 PM
quote:

Egyptian Pyramids - down - built with slave labor.


Excellent point.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 06:48 AM
My wife and I traveled over to Springfield, Illinois about 1 1/2 wks ago to see Mellencamp.

While we were there we visited Lincolns grave site. If anyone is every in that vicinity it's worth checking out.


Why weren't people complaining about monuments/statues 3 wks,5 months ago and last year? I don't know what to think of the times we are leaving in these days. I have a lot of thoughts and opinions.....probably not to popular and not very PC. Just pray and hope for the best and common sense.








[Edited on 8/29/2017 by jszfunk]

[Edited on 8/29/2017 by jszfunk]

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 08:59 AM
Beautiful pictures Scott, thanks, I'd never seen those.

[Edited on 8/29/2017 by robslob]

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 10:58 AM

Jerry Lee Lewis and pyramids aside, you guys wouldn't have any trouble with someone putting up a 30' statue of say a seigheiling Hitler on their property, on a busy street in full view of a synagogue?

I think everyone including you would draw a line somewhere on this.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 11:12 AM
quote:

Jerry Lee Lewis and pyramids aside, you guys wouldn't have any trouble with someone putting up a 30' statue of say a seigheiling Hitler on their property, on a busy street in full view of a synagogue?

I think everyone including you would draw a line somewhere on this.


you talking to me?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 11:24 AM
I just feel these are complex issues and need time/legislation to decide. As long as nazis are legal hard to stop them from marching - but in Germany the marches don't allow hate speech and unlike Charlottesville the police watch over actively. Nazi statues are illegal there - but they were not there 100 years prior

So I think this needs time and a legal solution

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 11:29 AM
Not in particular. Just wondering if the drift of this argument towards burning Jerry Lee records and demolishing tbe pyramids means that folks don't have any qualms about monuments of any kind, or if they have boundaries on this matter.
 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 11:38 AM
I guess where I land is on the side of free speech and build monuments of whatever. Just don't complain when your statue of Lincoln in downtown Birmingham draws a little heat.
 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 01:03 PM
I think people will still remember who Jefferson Davis was without a statue of him in every town square, or have you forgotten who King George was? How about a Hirohito statue? Why not statues of every leader who attacked the Republic?

We can't ignore the faults of all of our forefathers, but fewer Confederate General statues isn't the hill anyone needs to die on (alongside hatemongers and Nazis, no less). There are plenty of reminders of the Civil War for everyone on a daily basis. It's not erasing history, I'm sure people in East Germany remember who Stalin was, but they don't need to keep a statue of him in the public square.

Also, pyramids are tombs and not statues, so that's not a good point.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 01:15 PM
quote:
I think people will still remember who Jefferson Davis was without a statue of him in every town square, or have you forgotten who King George was? How about a Hirohito statue? Why not statues of every leader who attacked the Republic?

We can't ignore the faults of all of our forefathers, but fewer Confederate General statues isn't the hill anyone needs to die on (alongside hatemongers and Nazis, no less). There are plenty of reminders of the Civil War for everyone on a daily basis. It's not erasing history, I'm sure people in East Germany remember who Stalin was, but they don't need to keep a statue of him in the public square.

Also, pyramids are tombs and not statues, so that's not a good point.
The pyramids are also in Egypt, not the USA.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 02:30 PM
quote:
I think people will still remember who Jefferson Davis was without a statue of him in every town square, or have you forgotten who King George was? How about a Hirohito statue? Why not statues of every leader who attacked the Republic?

We can't ignore the faults of all of our forefathers, but fewer Confederate General statues isn't the hill anyone needs to die on (alongside hatemongers and Nazis, no less). There are plenty of reminders of the Civil War for everyone on a daily basis. It's not erasing history, I'm sure people in East Germany remember who Stalin was, but they don't need to keep a statue of him in the public square.

I think a real point this brings up is are there still statues of Stalin/Lenin up in the artist formerly known as the USSR.

and re pyramids I am sure there are some statues associated with Rebel bodies like the Lincoln photos

Also, pyramids are tombs and not statues, so that's not a good point.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 03:32 PM
Basic supply and demand folks. This is democracy and capitalism in action - America is functioning as intended. The confederate statues could possibly cause a material loss for the city in which it exists, due to protests, sponsorship losses, etc. it appears as though these cities recognize the financial benefits of removing them. If that upsets some of you, then you are SOL. Blaming an entire political party is an easy comfortable excuse. I'm so sick of the foolish analogies of other figures who owned slaves like GW - obviously the difference is that the confederacy was fighting to keep it permanent. It's about money, nothing more. If your view is the unpopular one, don't cry about it. Try to learn from it. Try to understand the issue. Or just blame liberals if that's all you can muster.
 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 05:58 PM
quote:
The pyramids are also in Egypt, not the USA.


Thanks for clearing that up for us Pops. Must just be the flashbacks that had me thinking otherwise.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 10:24 PM
quote:
quote:
The pyramids are also in Egypt, not the USA.


Thanks for clearing that up for us Pops. Must just be the flashbacks that had me thinking otherwise.


Not so fast BrerRabbit. There are pyramids in the US. There are at least two right outside Macon, Ga.
Many more built by the Mississippian culture as far north as Wisconsin.
Lest we forget the modern ones in Vegas, Memphis, Washington, DC, and other major towns.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/29/2017 at 11:02 PM
Truth, man, good catch. Cahokia is really something., the Mound Builders, you nailed it. Those weren't flashbacks after all.
 

Peach Bud



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  posted on 8/30/2017 at 06:33 AM
quote:
Blaming an entire political party is an easy comfortable excuse. Or just blame liberals if that's all you can muster.


That goes both ways!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/30/2017 at 12:42 PM
quote:
Not in particular. Just wondering if the drift of this argument towards burning Jerry Lee records and demolishing tbe pyramids means that folks don't have any qualms about monuments of any kind, or if they have boundaries on this matter.


Boundries...Mmmmmm. Decided by emotion?....Fact?....History that some find offensive?

A question that has been asked before and not answered ....

"Where does it stop"?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/30/2017 at 04:05 PM
quote:
quote:
Not in particular. Just wondering if the drift of this argument towards burning Jerry Lee records and demolishing tbe pyramids means that folks don't have any qualms about monuments of any kind, or if they have boundaries on this matter.


Boundries...Mmmmmm. Decided by emotion?....Fact?....History that some find offensive?

A question that has been asked before and not answered ....

"Where does it stop"?


There's an old saying: "Conservatives are opposed to dissenting viewpoints; Liberals embrace them until they find out that they actually exist."

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/30/2017 at 05:59 PM
quote:
Not in particular. Just wondering if the drift of this argument towards burning Jerry Lee records and demolishing tbe pyramids means that folks don't have any qualms about monuments of any kind, or if they have boundaries on this matter.


quote:
Boundries...Mmmmmm. Decided by emotion?....Fact?....History that some find offensive?


quote:
A question that has been asked before and not answered ....

"Where does it stop"?



quote:
There's an old saying: "Conservatives are opposed to dissenting viewpoints; Liberals embrace them until they find out that they actually exist."



No man, decided by you! And maybe I am the exception but that tidy little one liner about not tolerating dissent sure doesn't apply to me. It is just a dumb cute catch-22 anyway. Man, I can't stand "sayings". Like because it is a "saying" it's not bullsh!t.

I'm plenty liberal and honestly could not care less what kinds of statues pigeons poop on. Statues. Got way more pressing concerns in my life than stupid old statues.

I bet I give way less of a crap about your precious monuments than the folks claiming they are all equally valuable, from Jerry Lee records to Robt E. Lee to the pyramids....

Kind of similar to that whole All Lives Matter thing. Whenever you are too chickensh!t to state a postion you bust out with some big general thing so your little thing gets included.

Bunch of crap. Got a position, just state it. One thing for sure, seems like conservatives spend a lot of energy trying to prove how liberal they are.






[Edited on 8/30/2017 by BrerRabbit]

 
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