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Author: Subject: Now we can impeach him - How long will it take

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 01:53 PM
quote:
Yeah, you're right...there was no hatred or displays of vulgarity from the "p***y power", "nasty women", "F**k Trump", dressed like vaginas, thoughts of blowing up the white house crowd yesterday. Classy, intelligent bunch of folks. And I'm just a dishonest troll now? Got it.


Motivations on message boards are usually made quite clear by what people do and don't respond to. Your refusal to acknowledge any of Trump's behavior as a reason for, well, anything is a pretty clear tell.

Apparently, your overriding theme here is: American liberals are hate-filled hypocrites, hate-filled for no reason. They should sit down, shut up, and let the right wing, perfect in every way, have the final say on anything and everything. No one on the right wing has ever said or done anything hateful, ever. This is an extremely common theme that has been recurring on this particular board now for several years, almost always by the same people.

If that's what you mean to say, just come out and say it. Trying to set up hypocritical "gotchas" has been and is an obsession by many, and it's almost always started off with the "I despise both sides, but, the left..." approach.

I could post a hundred hateful signs from Tea Party rallies and Obama being burned in effigy, but you'd just ignore them, because apparently they don't exist. Odd one-way hypocrisy standard you have.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:03 PM
quote:
My point was that Pence (as a conservative) is more of a threat (in theory at least) to their rights than Trump, but for some reason they still want Pence as president. It is an irrational - bordering on hysterical - hatred that these people have for Trump such that their primary goal is his removal, not human/civil rights.


Bhawk stated it perfectly. I'll add that some people worry about the potential dangers of a hostile, short-tempered, thin-skinned President who behaves like a child. Many of us are concerned he could start international conflicts over petty reasons. So that's why we'd rather have Pence - we're not afraid of the big bad other side and don't consider opposing views a threat, like you do. We know America has enough resources that will allow us to do anything we want. The only thing irrational and hysterical is your paranoia of having no choice but to succomb to the big bad politicians that "affect you by force", and somehow dictate what happens to you in life. Please. Since you confuse laws with political idealogy, and couldn't understand why Meryl wasn't fired despite not working for anyone, you haven't done anything to gain an ounce of credibility, and if you have, please show us. I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:07 PM
goldtop - I agree that those things that Trump did are disgusting.

However...Bhawk will be along soon enough to explain to you how I really don't believe that...I am just a liar, and a troll. Apparently ol' Bhawk has me figured out, and knows my mind, my motivations, and my political philosophy even better than I do.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:15 PM
quote:
goldtop - I agree that those things that Trump did are disgusting.

However...Bhawk will be along soon enough to explain to you how I really don't believe that...I am just a liar, and a troll. Apparently ol' Bhawk has me figured out, and knows my mind, my motivations, and my political philosophy even better than I do.


I don't care if a republican or democrat is in the white house. I don't want a disgusting person in the white house

I also have a disabled grandson so his mocking of the palsy of the disabled reporter is the height of disgusting

What the "Right" doesn't get....He's a disgusting dangerous person...How can anyone see anything positive in that or him???

If Rubio or Kasich was in I would not feel like this at all...and do you think there would have been marches world wide if they were elected or if Hillary was elected

those marches happened for 1 reason only

************>>>>>>DONALD TRUMP IS A DISGUSTING PERSON<<<<<<<<<<<<*************

it was zero to do with republican or right wing...so that can never be the argument

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:15 PM
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:18 PM
quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:21 PM
quote:
If Rubio or Kasich was in I would not feel like this at all...


I liked (and still do) Marco Rubio a lot. Kasich too. I'd happily take back 95% of the negative things I've ever said about Mitt Romney. Their common thread...all decent, honorable men with admirable records of public service.

Hillary was a terrible candidate from the get-go and she lost.

Apparently, somehow, we're here...

"You guys WON! Get over it!"

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:24 PM
quote:
there was no hatred or displays of vulgarity from the "p***y power", "nasty women", "F**k Trump", dressed like vaginas, thoughts of blowing up the white house crowd yesterday. Classy, intelligent bunch of folks. And I'm just a dishonest troll now? Got it.


Let's not forget that the "P___ Power" and "Nasty Women" signs at these incredibly peaceful protests (by millions nation- and worldwide), are in direct response to vulgar comments made by Trump himself. To paraphrase the judges on Law & Order, "you opened the door, counselor, I'm allowing it..." These aren't born in a vacuum.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:28 PM
BoytonBrother - so laws aren't based on political ideology? Laws and world events exist in a vacuum and are in no way determined by political ideology? Obamacare was not an outcome of a certain political ideology? The Iraq war was not the outcome of a political ideology? And laws are not enforced by the power/force of the government? I can simply choose to ignore laws rather then "letting" them dictate what happens to me?

Fascinating. And good to know. All this time I've been under the impression that political ideology informs and shapes the laws of a society, and that those laws then dictate what is legal or illegal behavior for the members of said society, and that these laws are then enforced by the government of that society. But I like your way better...(if only it existed).

Someone really should have let all those protestors in on this theory of yours..."political beliefs do not affect you, laws don't dictate what your rights are...this march is a waste of time...just don't LET Trump affect you...you can all go home now"...lol.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:45 PM
quote:
quote:
there was no hatred or displays of vulgarity from the "p***y power", "nasty women", "F**k Trump", dressed like vaginas, thoughts of blowing up the white house crowd yesterday. Classy, intelligent bunch of folks. And I'm just a dishonest troll now? Got it.


Let's not forget that the "P___ Power" and "Nasty Women" signs at these incredibly peaceful protests (by millions nation- and worldwide), are in direct response to vulgar comments made by Trump himself. To paraphrase the judges on Law & Order, "you opened the door, counselor, I'm allowing it..." These aren't born in a vacuum.


So I guess that makes it OK? Didn't we just have the double standard/hypocrisy discussion? If these folks thought it was vulgar, shouldn't they have tried to rise above that vulgarity and have a higher standard? If Trump thinks that some women are nasty and vulgar...well, I would have to say that many of them proved him right yesterday. Would it not have been better to come out and be classy, intelligent, and articulate as a response to Trump? Instead they protested vulgarity by being equally vulgar. And my questions/comments are directed at the ones who acted that way. I realize that they are not representative of all women or all of the protestors.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:54 PM
quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 02:58 PM
quote:
BoytonBrother - so laws aren't based on political ideology? Laws and world events exist in a vacuum and are in no way determined by political ideology? Obamacare was not an outcome of a certain political ideology? The Iraq war was not the outcome of a political ideology? And laws are not enforced by the power/force of the government? I can simply choose to ignore laws rather then "letting" them dictate what happens to me?


You consider a difference in political ideology to be a problem that creates some sort of threat to you, and takes away your rights. I don't feel that way.

quote:
Someone really should have let all those protestors in on this theory of yours..."political beliefs do not affect you, laws don't dictate what your rights are...this march is a waste of time...just don't LET Trump affect you...you can all go home now"...lol.


Now you get it. This is truly exactly how I feel. I respect their right to voice themselves, but I don't think women's rights will ever be in jeopardy under Trump, but I certainly don't blame them for being outraged by his comments.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 03:04 PM
quote:
So I guess that makes it OK? Didn't we just have the double standard/hypocrisy discussion? If these folks thought it was vulgar, shouldn't they have tried to rise above that vulgarity and have a higher standard? If Trump thinks that some women are nasty and vulgar...well, I would have to say that many of them proved him right yesterday. Would it not have been better to come out and be classy, intelligent, and articulate as a response to Trump? Instead they protested vulgarity by being equally vulgar. And my questions/comments are directed at the ones who acted that way. I realize that they are not representative of all women or all of the protestors.


It's called context, they reappropriated his own words. Often times, quite sharply and wittily. They are responding to what they found insulting. How do you protest words and actions you find horrible by extracting them from your own protest? And how vulgar is "nasty" - what are you a Puritan? They peacefully protested? That is about as classy as you can get. You want them to burn Trump in effigy as many did Obama in 2008? You may not agree with what they protested, but you can't argue with how they protested.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 03:06 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.


One thing is for sure, you are quite sensitive.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 03:22 PM
I get that this is how you "feel". But I'm not interested in how you feel about something. I'm only interested in how things really are.

And it's not that I just "CONSIDER" a difference in political ideology to be a problem that creates some sort of threat to me. It's that this is reality. And the "threat" isn't necessarily a loss of rights. It could be a decrease in disposable income or the loss of a good health care policy, which I have already provided as evidence of ways in which the political ideology of the Obama administration directly impacted me.

Political ideology can also have a positive impact. I'm not saying it is all bad. I favor those aspects of a political ideology that are positive, while opposing those that are negative.

But to say that political ideology has no impact on my life or yours...well, you can "feel" that way all you want to. But the reality is quite different.

So...those women protesting yesterday...their rights aren't really in jeopardy, they are just unjustifiably paranoid, and they are only protesting because they are butt-hurt over some comments Trump made? Another interesting theory...


 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 03:28 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.


One thing is for sure, you are quite sensitive.


Yes, I know...a quite sensitive, dishonest, troll. I've learned so much about myself from you.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 03:48 PM
quote:
You are kidding, right? With the Supreme Court up for grabs you don't think Roe vs. Wade is going to come under fire?


I don't. It might be challenged, but I believe a woman will always be able to have an abortion should she choose that route. I don't see how Trump could prevent that. If he can, please do tell. I'm always eager to learn.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 03:51 PM
quote:
goldtop - I agree that those things that Trump did are disgusting.


quote:
So...those women protesting yesterday...their rights aren't really in jeopardy, they are just unjustifiably paranoid, and they are only protesting because they are butt-hurt over some comments Trump made?


You find these things "disgusting," but anyone else taking issue to them is "butt-hurt?"

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 03:54 PM
quote:
And it's not that I just "CONSIDER" a difference in political ideology to be a problem that creates some sort of threat to me. It's that this is reality. And the "threat" isn't necessarily a loss of rights. It could be a decrease in disposable income or the loss of a good health care policy, which I have already provided as evidence of ways in which the political ideology of the Obama administration directly impacted me.


Wah wah, the government is to blame for your income now? Whatever happened to working harder for the income you want?


quote:
But to say that political ideology has no impact on my life or yours...well, you can "feel" that way all you want to. But the reality is quite different.


If you say so.


quote:
So...those women protesting yesterday...their rights aren't really in jeopardy, they are just unjustifiably paranoid, and they are only protesting because they are butt-hurt over some comments Trump made? Another interesting theory...


your words and interpretation. you can cut and past mine from above for my words and interpretation.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 04:02 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.


One thing is for sure, you are quite sensitive.


Yes, I know...a quite sensitive, dishonest, troll. I've learned so much about myself from you.


You concluded that.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 04:11 PM
Consider this. This is today. This morning:

quote:
4:47 am - Watched protests yesterday but was under the impression that we just had an election! Why didn't these people vote? Celebs hurt cause badly.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823150055418920960?ref_src=twsrc %5Etfw



Then, about an hour and a half later:

quote:
6:23am - Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823174199036542980?ref_src=twsrc %5Etfw



All of the ridiculous and inane nitpicking done over Presidents over the last several years and all of the sudden you even breathe the slightest implication of negativity on the things like this our PRESIDENT says and you're just a butt-hurt snowflake?

Get the ---- outta here.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 05:13 PM
quote:
Wah wah, the government is to blame for your income now? Whatever happened to working harder for the income you want?


Oh, OK...so now I have to go find a higher paying job or work more hours just to maintain the same level of income. Great! Well, at least you are finally acknowledging that political ideologies negatively impact me and my family. We're making some progress now.

You are so lost here. What don't you get? Someone's or some party's political ideology lead to the implementation of Obamacare. I now pay a higher premium, have a higher deductible, etc. which means less net income in my pocket every month. That is a negative impact to me that is a result of a political ideology. Your suggestion...work harder...so now we have another negative impact to me and my family.

Before Obamacare: Good health insurance policy, lower premiums, lower deductibles.

After Obamacare: Higher premiums, higher deductibles - both of which result in less money in my pocket. And according to you I must now work harder to maintain the same level of income.

So...a worse insurance policy, less money in my pocket, more work resulting in less free time to spend with my family and doing the things that I enjoy, etc. So tell me again how political ideologies have no impact on my life? And tell me again why I should not be opposed to something that negatively impacts me and my family?

And keep in mind that Obamacare is just one small example of how politics intersects with and impacts our lives.


 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 05:24 PM
quote:
quote:
Wah wah, the government is to blame for your income now? Whatever happened to working harder for the income you want?


Oh, OK...so now I have to go find a higher paying job or work more hours just to maintain the same level of income. Great! Well, at least you are finally acknowledging that political ideologies negatively impact me and my family. We're making some progress now.

You are so lost here. What don't you get? Someone's or some party's political ideology lead to the implementation of Obamacare. I now pay a higher premium, have a higher deductible, etc. which means less net income in my pocket every month. That is a negative impact to me that is a result of a political ideology. Your suggestion...work harder...so now we have another negative impact to me and my family.

Before Obamacare: Good health insurance policy, lower premiums, lower deductibles.

After Obamacare: Higher premiums, higher deductibles - both of which result in less money in my pocket. And according to you I must now work harder to maintain the same level of income.

So...a worse insurance policy, less money in my pocket, more work resulting in less free time to spend with my family and doing the things that I enjoy, etc. So tell me again how political ideologies have no impact on my life? And tell me again why I should not be opposed to something that negatively impacts me and my family?

And keep in mind that Obamacare is just one small example of how politics intersects with and impacts our lives.




What you and so many others failed to understand is that the ACA was intended so that everyone would be able to get insurance, but the premiums are set by the insurance companies. Just about every insurance companies made record profits after the ACA was passed.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 05:44 PM
quote:
Someone's or some party's political ideology lead to the implementation of Obamacare.


Not entirely. Obamacare was a reaction to a legitimate societal need.

Medicare and Medicaid were heading down one of two paths: Complete insolvency, or, rescue from that insolvency via a massive tax crush that would start hitting as early as 2030, now not that far away.

As Medicare and Medicaid evolved over time, both parties ignored the Baby Boomer reality...eventually there was going to be waaaaay more claims paid out than there were workers paying in, simply by math.

The three main pillars of Obamacare:

1. Ban insurance companies from the pre-existing condition exemption from coverage - This is a win for the people that now would have insurance that did not have access before.
2. Mandate those without insurance to participate, or, pay a penalty. This is a win for the insurance companies who had to take on all those new customers with expensive conditions by balancing it with making those younger and healthier pay in, as that group tends to not use insurance as much. It also was originally concepted on a very basic conservative complaint - no free rides, everyone has to pay something.
3. More Americans have health insurance - This is a win for the government.

Three main groups, everyone gets something. This is the basic theory as originally presented by The Heritage Foundation, one of Washington's oldest and most respected conservative think tanks, and was also the basic framework for Bob Dole's heathcare plan on his 1996 Presidential campaign platform.

Not exactly so easily discernable by political ideology, now is it?

As to the premiums, the ACA left giant loopholes...there were no premium price controls at the Federal level, that was left to the states. Now there's 50 different states with 50 different insurance commissions, so while the Federal law enacted things, the states were left to run things, or opt in to the Medicaid provision to help offset the new administrative burden.

It should be noted that no matter one's level of regard for insurance companies, their motives and their profitability, it goes without saying that any premium increase can be made by any insurance company and they can blame Obamacare, the position of the Sun or the presence of demons as a reason to make that increase.

Premiums, like most other things, increase over time as adjusted with inflation. Let's say there's a full repeal and dismantling of the ACA. When premiums go up again, then who to blame?

After that, there's still the matter of millions of people now without insurance, which may or may not include the 76 million Baby Boomers getting older by the minute and a healthcare system that would be further behind the 8-ball than ever.

Then what do we do?

 

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  posted on 1/22/2017 at 06:39 PM
These threads all go so many different directions of off topic.

quote:
What you and so many others failed to understand is that the ACA was intended so that everyone would be able to get insurance, but the premiums are set by the insurance companies. Just about every insurance companies made record profits after the ACA was passed.


So that is why United, Humana and Aetna are withdrawing from some state exchanges...too much profit?

I mean yeah, I get it...huge windfall for them, the government mandates that everyone must buy their product and have health insurance and if you can't afford to buy it the government subsidizes it. Something obviously went wrong or else these companies wouldn't be withdrawing.

 
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