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Author: Subject: What is wrong with having to show some form of ID to vote ?

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 11:03 AM
This is an attempt at a serious question, that I really would like to hear an opposing opinion - without descending into name calling and insults ((I know, I know chances are pretty slim.))

For the life of me I cannot understand the opposition to some sort of rule that says one must show ID to vote.

I realize not everyone has a drivers license, but come on, some sort of ID ?

It seems pretty basic.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 12:03 PM
It is SOP in a medical practice not to see anyone without a photo ID as people use other peoples insurance/identity
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 01:14 PM
This is a political issue.

The Democrats claim that requiring an ID to vote is the GOP’s attempt to disenfranchise minorities; meaning poor blacks. Of course those minorities have ID as it is required to get the Democrats hand-outs.

During the 2008 election, the NAACP brought in U.N. Observers to report on the fairness of that election. When the U.N. presented their report to the NAACP, that report disappeared. It seems that the first and most glaring observation was that the U.N. observers were very surprised that people were not required to show ID to vote. That was not the result the NAACP wanted.

Many States offer free IDs to anyone who cannot afford them and free transportation to get those IDs.

The Democrats also want illegal aliens, felons and dead people to vote. Proof is in the registering illegal aliens to vote using forms filled out for them to sign with the box pre-checked “Democratic Party” much in the same way the California Health Exchange did for people who signed up for Obamacare.

The Obama campaign used Acorn, a George Soros funded “community action” group to sign up voters multiple times so that they could vote multiple times. Proof was found in a fellow in Ohio who was “registered to vote” 74 times but smelling a rat, he notified the State.
When the group “True the Vote” applied for tax-exempt status, Obama had the IRS drag their feet and harass True the Vote until well after the election.

The Republicans was clean voter registration rolls and only legal American Citizens to vote.

Both political parties try to get more people to actually vote but their efforts have yielded paltry results.



 

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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 01:41 PM
quote:
This is a political issue.

The Democrats claim that requiring an ID to vote is the GOP’s attempt to disenfranchise minorities; meaning poor blacks. Of course those minorities have ID as it is required to get the Democrats hand-outs.

During the 2008 election, the NAACP brought in U.N. Observers to report on the fairness of that election. When the U.N. presented their report to the NAACP, that report disappeared. It seems that the first and most glaring observation was that the U.N. observers were very surprised that people were not required to show ID to vote. That was not the result the NAACP wanted.

Many States offer free IDs to anyone who cannot afford them and free transportation to get those IDs.

The Democrats also want illegal aliens, felons and dead people to vote. Proof is in the registering illegal aliens to vote using forms filled out for them to sign with the box pre-checked “Democratic Party” much in the same way the California Health Exchange did for people who signed up for Obamacare.

The Obama campaign used Acorn, a George Soros funded “community action” group to sign up voters multiple times so that they could vote multiple times. Proof was found in a fellow in Ohio who was “registered to vote” 74 times but smelling a rat, he notified the State.
When the group “True the Vote” applied for tax-exempt status, Obama had the IRS drag their feet and harass True the Vote until well after the election.

The Republicans was clean voter registration rolls and only legal American Citizens to vote.

Both political parties try to get more people to actually vote but their efforts have yielded paltry results.





The usual gibberish from the site troll.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 01:42 PM
Although Mule of course says most states offer free ID's and transportation, they don't, and many states make it difficult to get, especially in the south for minorities. As this article states, the backing information you might need to get the free id costs money, and you need to go to other agencies to get them (birth certificates, marriage certificates, etc.) This affects minorities and the elderly (who may not have the documentation anymore) more than others. It is hard for those of us that have always lived with drivers licenses, passports, etc. to understand why some people don't have them - but not everybody in the US has the same standard of living or opportunities.

From the ACLU......

Voter ID laws are becoming increasingly common across the country. Today, 30 states require voters to present identification to vote in federal, state and local elections, although some laws passed during the 2011 legislative session have not yet gone into effect. In 15 of those states, voters must present a photo ID – that in many states must be government-issued – in order to cast a ballot.

Many Americans do not have the necessary identification that these laws require, and face barriers to voting as a result. Research shows, for example, that more than 21 million Americans do not have government-issued photo identification; a disproportionate number of these Americans are low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, and elderly.

Voter ID laws have the potential to deny the right to vote to thousands of registered voters who do not have, and, in many instances, cannot obtain the limited identification states accept for voting. Many of these Americans cannot afford to pay for the required documents needed to secure a government-issued photo ID. As such, these laws impede access to the polls and are at odds with the fundamental right to vote.

VOTING IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE

Nothing is more fundamental to our democracy than the right to vote.
The right to vote is protected by more constitutional amendments - the 1st, 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th - than any other right we enjoy as Americans.
There are additional federal and state statutes which guarantee and protect voting rights, as well as declarations by the Supreme Court that the right to vote is fundamental because it is protective of all our other rights.

VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM

There is no credible evidence that in-person impersonation voter fraud -- the only type of fraud that photo IDs could prevent – is even a minor problem.
Proponents of voter ID laws have failed to demonstrate that individual, in -person voter fraud is even a minor problem anywhere in the country.
Multiple studies have found that almost all cases of in-person impersonation voter “fraud” are the result of a voter making an honest mistake, and that even these mistakes are extremely infrequent.
It is important, instead, to focus on both expanding the franchise and ending practices which actually threaten the integrity of the elections, such as improper purges of voters, voter harassment, and distribution of false information about when and where to vote. None of these issues, however, are addressed or can be resolved with a photo ID requirement.

NO ELIGIBLE CITIZEN SHOULD HAVE TO PAY TO VOTE

Requiring voters to obtain an ID in order to vote is tantamount to a poll tax. Although some states issue IDs for free, the birth certificates, passports, or other documents required to obtain a government-issued ID cost money, and many Americans simply cannot afford to pay for them.
In addition, states incur sizable costs when providing IDs to voters who do not have them. Given the financial strain many states already are experiencing, this is an unnecessary allocation of taxpayer dollars.

VOTER ID LAWS ARE DISCRIMINATORY

Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.
The Supreme Court has held that a state cannot value one person’s vote over another and that is exactly what these laws do.
Research shows that 11% of US citizens – or more than 21 million Americans -- do not have government-issued photo identification.
As many as 25% of African American citizens of voting age do not have a government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of their white counterparts.
18% of Americans over the age of 65 (or 6 million senior citizens) do not have a government-issued photo ID.
In 2008, it was widely reported that Indiana’s voter ID law disfranchised 12 nuns who were trying to vote in the primary election. The nuns were all over 80 years old, all had a history of voting in past elections, and none of them drove. Their limited mobility made it difficult for them to get an ID.

VOTER ID LAWS LIMIT VOTERS’ ACCESS TO THE VOTING BOOTH AND HINDER THEIR RIGHT TO CAST A BALLOT

Voter ID laws restrict access to the voting booth. Rather than erecting hurdles that prevent Americans from voting, lawmakers must ensure that every eligible voter is allowed to vote, and that every vote counts.
Any requirement that citizens show government-issued photo ID at the polls reintroduces an enormous amount of discretion into the balloting process, thus creating opportunities for discrimination at the polls against racial, ethnic and language minority voters.
Most polling places rely on volunteers or poll workers with minimal training to check in voters and answer questions. There is a risk that inadequately trained workers could turn away and disfranchise even properly documented voters.

OUR COUNTRY HAS COME A LONG WAY SINCE THE PASSAGE OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT; VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE A STEP BACKWARDS

Voter ID requirements are a dangerous and misguided step backwards in our ongoing quest for a more democratic society.
Elected officials should be seeking ways to encourage more voters, not inventing excuses to deny voters the ability to cast their ballots. Photo ID requirements present substantial barriers to voting and negatively effect voter participation.
Today, 30 states have enacted discriminatory voter ID laws that prevent citizens from voting, and more states are considering such restrictive and discriminatory laws.
The history of our nation is characterized by a gradual expansion of voting rights. As our democracy continued to evolve with the right to vote has been expanded to include most Americans.

https://www.aclu.org/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 01:49 PM
And what would you expect the ACLU to say about it?

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 01:53 PM
quote:
And what would you expect the ACLU to say about it?

_________________________________________________________________________

Exactly.
The ACLU is all for Civil Liberties for Americans as long as they are liberals.




 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 01:54 PM
North Carolina’s Voter-ID Law Goes on Trial in Federal Court

Obama’s Justice Department is taking NC’s anti-voter fraud ID law to court. Of course you need an ID to get into the Justice Department’s compound.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/north-carolinas-voter-id-law-goes-on-trial-in-f ederal-court-1453545004

New Hampshire combats voter fraud, requiring ID for 1st time in primary

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/26/new-hampshire-combats-voter-frau d-requiring-id-for-1st-time-in-primary.html?intcmp=hplnws




 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 02:05 PM
quote:
And what would you expect the ACLU to say about it?


I'll never understand the dislike that conservatives have for the ACLU. They've defended religious and free speech rights of all kinds of people, up to and including Rush Limbaugh. Their record defending the rights of Christians is a mile long. Oh well.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 02:07 PM
As to the OP, there's nothing wrong with asking for ID, but it's not that simple, nor is it much worth discussing.

Yet another example of conditional confirmation bias that surrounds us everywhere.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 02:30 PM
Always easier to attack the source instead of reading the arguments against using a form of ID, which is what heineken515 wanted to know...

...and of course the second amendment trumps all those other amendments that this relates to.....I guess we get to pick and choose those we want to follow.....


When I vote, I have to give my name and address. They look me up in the book of registered voters. I then have to sign the book, and they compare my signature that is on file. Once I have done that, I can't go back to that precinct and vote again, and no one else can vote as me. It's worked well for the 40-some years I have been voting.....

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 03:30 PM
How many picture ids did our founding fathers have?
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 03:36 PM
quote:
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.


Yeah, yeah. But I'll wager they have money for cigarettes, alcohol, i phones and cable TV.

 

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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 03:53 PM
quote:
quote:
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.


Yeah, yeah. But I'll wager they have money for cigarettes, alcohol, i phones and cable TV.

It's getting easier and easier to spot a Donald Trump supporter these days.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 04:30 PM
quote:
quote:
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.


Yeah, yeah. But I'll wager they have money for cigarettes, alcohol, i phones and cable TV.

_________________________________________________________________________

The quoted argument is a load of crap.

1.) " low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters"
- already have an ID they use to get the handouts

2.) "students, senior citizens"
- already have ID

3.) "voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one"
- either already have ID or in the States enacting Voter ID laws they provide free IDs and the free transportation to get the ID.

The left simply wants to keep voter fraud alive and well so they put forth false claims and blame their political opponents... who are the people.


 

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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 07:40 PM
I've had to show my ID for every election I've voted in....maybe its just CA that requires ID to vote...seems like a no brainer to me...

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 07:56 PM
i empathize with those that are for voter ID. looking at it as a simple question based on personal experience it is easy to think, just go get as ID. but as Sang posted it can be difficult. in some parts of the country it requires travel and time to acquire the documents needed. not everyone has a phone or the internet. some people can't afford to drive and pay for lodging just to get one piece of the puzzle. on the other hand, i believe it will be easier in the future, 20-30 years, to get proper documentation. so i guess i agree with both sides. with problems that have come up with the internet and identity theft, solutions that are 100% certain will be difficult. i think a solution that works for all will come someday. all of us know that voting without an ID works because we have all done it during our lives, depending on your age.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 07:59 PM




[Edited on 1/27/2016 by Muleman1994]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2016 at 10:25 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.


Yeah, yeah. But I'll wager they have money for cigarettes, alcohol, i phones and cable TV.

_________________________________________________________________________

The quoted argument is a load of crap.

1.) " low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters"
- already have an ID they use to get the handouts

2.) "students, senior citizens"
- already have ID

3.) "voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one"
- either already have ID or in the States enacting Voter ID laws they provide free IDs and the free transportation to get the ID.

The left simply wants to keep voter fraud alive and well so they put forth false claims and blame their political opponents... who are the people.





More lies from the troll liar.....

Sorry you can't comprehend articles - is there some new government issued photo id for senior citizens? Student id's are not government issued.....

What handouts? Your racism is showing again..... what ID is needed for a "handout"?


Maybe Branco has an answer for you - you have nothing......

 

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  posted on 1/27/2016 at 02:39 AM
quote:
I've had to show my ID for every election I've voted in....maybe its just CA that requires ID to vote...seems like a no brainer to me...


In San Diego, no I.D. is asked for, you just point to your name and sign,

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2016 at 02:40 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.


Yeah, yeah. But I'll wager they have money for cigarettes, alcohol, i phones and cable TV.

It's getting easier and easier to spot a Donald Trump supporter these days.


You say that like it's a bad thing.....

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2016 at 08:45 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.


Yeah, yeah. But I'll wager they have money for cigarettes, alcohol, i phones and cable TV.

It's getting easier and easier to spot a Donald Trump supporter these days.


You say that like it's a bad thing.....



Nahh, more like a beauty is in the eye of the beholder kind of thing.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2016 at 10:49 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.


Yeah, yeah. But I'll wager they have money for cigarettes, alcohol, i phones and cable TV.

_________________________________________________________________________

The quoted argument is a load of crap.

1.) " low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters"
- already have an ID they use to get the handouts

2.) "students, senior citizens"
- already have ID

3.) "voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one"
- either already have ID or in the States enacting Voter ID laws they provide free IDs and the free transportation to get the ID.

The left simply wants to keep voter fraud alive and well so they put forth false claims and blame their political opponents... who are the people.





More lies from the troll liar.....

Sorry you can't comprehend articles - is there some new government issued photo id for senior citizens? Student id's are not government issued.....

What handouts? Your racism is showing again..... what ID is needed for a "handout"?


Maybe Branco has an answer for you - you have nothing......



______________________________________________________________________

heineken515 started this thread and respectfully asked that it progress “without descending into name calling” I must surmise that some have impulse control issues.

“government issued photo id for senior citizens?”
- All States have a State issued photo ID available to their citizens. In the States that require a government issued photo ID to vote make them available free to those who cannot afford them

“Student id's are not government issued”
- Every State that requires a photo ID to vote accepts a student ID or makes available a State photo ID for free.

“What handouts? What ID is needed for a "handout"?
- Really? If you have to ask that question you are simply proving you are woefully uninformed.

You must present a valid Government issued photo ID to get on a commercial airplane. Are you saying that minorities are being disenfranchised by the Government?

The Governor of New Hampshire is a democrat but NH requires a government issued photo ID to vote. Are you saying the democrats are discriminating against minorities, senior citizens and students?

 

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  posted on 1/27/2016 at 11:05 AM
New lawsuit challenges Alabama voter ID law
12/02/15 12:17 PM—UPDATED 12/02/15 05:10 PM

Alabama’s voter ID law discriminates against African-Americans and violates the Voting Rights Act, a lawsuit filed Wednesday alleges, calling the law “simply the latest chapter in Alabama’s long and brutal history of intentional racial discrimination.”

The suit, brought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, claims that the state “seeks to disfranchise thousands of African-American and Latino voters—all in the name of “curing” a voter fraud problem that does not exist.”

The state said last year that an estimated 250,000 registered voters—around 10% of the state’s registered voters—lack a state or federal photo ID, which the law requires to vote. Black and Latino voters are consistently more likely than whites to lack photo ID.

“Voting rights are important to every citizen, and it is imperative that every Alabamian who is eligible to vote have the ability to vote,” Gov. Robert Bentley, who is among the state officials named as a defendant, said in a statement. “We have not been served with the complaint and will do a legal review of it once it is officially received by the Governor’s Office.”

“Empirical data would indicate that the photo ID requirement is in no way a barrier or obstacle to voting,” Secretary of State John Merrill, another defendant, said in a statement.

In September, Alabama, citing budget constraints, announced that it would shutter or reduce the hours of 31 DMV offices, many of which were in counties with high black populations. Civil rights advocates have said the closures will make it even harder for black voters to get an ID, and have called for a federal investigation. Sherrilyn Ifill, the president of the NAACP LDF, said the closures, coming on top of the enforcement of the strict law itself, prompted her group to take action.

“It is appalling that, 60 years after Rosa Parks’ courageous protest in Montgomery and 50 years after voting rights activists marched in Selma, the Alabama Legislature continues to pass laws that are designed to deprive people of color of their basic civil rights,” said Ifill.

Alabama’s Republican-controlled legislature passed the ID law in 2011. But it didn’t try to get federal approval for the law, as it was required to do at that time under the Voting Rights Act. As a result, the law didn’t go into effect for two years. In June 2013, in Shelby County v. Holder, the Supreme Court invalidated Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, meaning Alabama and other states were no longer required to get federal signoff for their election laws. The next day, the state announced that its ID law would go into effect.

The new lawsuit claims that the ID law violates a different plank of the Voting Rights Act, Section 2, which bars racial discrimination in voting and remains intact.

Other lawsuits brought by voting rights groups and the federal government have challenged voter ID laws in Texas, Wisconsin, and other states. Texas’s law was struck down as discriminatory, though the state is continuing its appeals. Wisconsin’s survived court challenges and remains in effect.

During the 2011-2012 session, the lawsuit notes, Alabama also passed two other measures that have been deemed racially discriminatory by courts: a redistricting plan that was found to have crammed black voters into a small number of districts so as to reduce their overall power, and a strict anti-immigration law. The complaint alleges that those other measures help demonstrate the existence of clear racial bias in the legislature, which is key to proving a Voting Rights Act violation.

The complaint also puts the ID law in the context of Alabama’s long and shameful history of making it harder for its black residents to vote. In 1893, the state tightened registration rules to allow registration only in May, arranged candidates on the ballot without party identification, and made voters show registration certificates—an early ID requirement. In 1901, as part of a Constitutional Convention, it introduced a poll tax and a literacy test. As a result, the number of registered black voters in the state dropped from 180,000 in 1900 to 3,000 in 1903.

The lawsuit tells the story of a high school student in Franklin County who will turn 18 this month and wants to vote in 2016, but who lacks an ID and does not drive. The closest DMV office is open only once day a month. Another office requires a round trip of more than 40 miles, is inaccessible by public transportation, and is open only during weekday business hours. The student’s parents are unable to drive her because they work.

It’s impossible to get a precise measure of the law’s impact on voting in last fall’s midterms, the first major election in which it was in effect. But it appears to have been significant in keeping voters from the polls: Turnout in Alabama declined to just 41% last fall. To be sure, turnout was way down across the country, but in Alabama the drop-off from the last midterms in 2010, when it was at 57.5 percent, was particularly steep.

More than 600 ballots, most of them absentee ballots, went uncounted because the voter didn’t provide photo ID. The NAACP LDF says it believes thousands of additional would-be voters didn’t show up because of the law.

MSNBC reported last year that Willie Mims, a 93-year-old African-American was turned away from the polls when he went to vote in the Democratic primary because he lacked an ID. Mims ultimately was unable to vote.

The new lawsuit claims that Alabama’s enforcement of the law has had the effect of making it even more discriminatory. For instance, state officials ruled that IDs issued by public housing authorities could not be used to vote. Seventy-one percent of the state’s federal public housing residents are black.

The lawsuit, which was brought on behalf of Greater Birmingham Ministries and the Alabama NAACP, asks not only for the ID law to be blocked, but also for Alabama to be brought back under a regime of federal supervision for its voting laws.



http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lawsuit-challenges-alabama-voter-id-law

 

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  posted on 1/27/2016 at 11:17 AM
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx



State by state rules - not all accept student ids

Alabama and others, as seen in the post above, do not provide free transportation to get ids

 

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