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Author: Subject: I'd Never Trust a Pit Bull

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 1/5/2016 at 08:26 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article53003700.html

These dogs had no history of violence. And now a 9 year old boy is dead.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2016 at 08:50 AM
Sad story. The adult in this situation is not a capable parent-substitute either, leaving a nine year old alone while she is off for work. There should be consequences.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2016 at 12:22 PM
Pit bulls are incredibly sweet dogs, but any animal that is mistreated or not properly trained can be conditioned to be aggressive. According to the article, it is clear this woman, although she had good intentions, wasn't a capable guardian for her brother (no bathroom? unsupervised for hours?). The video shows she didn't understand basic dog behavior - she babied them and let the dogs dominate the space as their own. Add to that it was a mom dog with pups shows this woman didn't understand the relationship. We don't know the history of the mother dog either.

I've seen Yorkies that are more aggressive than pit bulls. Unfortunately, pit bulls are mistreated more often. Don't blame the breed, blame the owners.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2016 at 03:46 PM
quote:
Pit bulls are incredibly sweet dogs, but any animal that is mistreated or not properly trained can be conditioned to be aggressive. According to the article, it is clear this woman, although she had good intentions, wasn't a capable guardian for her brother (no bathroom? unsupervised for hours?). The video shows she didn't understand basic dog behavior - she babied them and let the dogs dominate the space as their own. Add to that it was a mom dog with pups shows this woman didn't understand the relationship. We don't know the history of the mother dog either.

I've seen Yorkies that are more aggressive than pit bulls. Unfortunately, pit bulls are mistreated more often. Don't blame the breed, blame the owners.


100% spot on.

The problem here was a stoopid person, not a bad dog.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2016 at 08:32 PM
The breed is known for it's dominance traits as are other breeds like Rottweilers etc. The dogs are loving and protective of their pack members. Their family members are considered by the dogs to be members of their pack. In a dog pack, there is a pecking order, with ONE boss, commonly referred to as the alpha dog. The alpha dog believes it is in charge of the pack and everyone in it.

If it comes down to making a decision where the dog believes there is a threat, that dog will make the decision on how to respond. The response can be correcting either another pack member (family member including people) with carrying degrees of correction. Corrections can be as simple as barking a command at you, nudging with their nose, jumping up and hitting you with their face knocking you out of the way, grabbing your forearm and trying to move you, nip you, bite you slightly as a warning. If those gestures are not effective and they feel there is a serious challenge to their authority or a decision they have made, their correction can be more serious up to and including killing whomever is challenging them in their pack or an outside intruder.

People just do not get it. Dogs are animals, they will behave as animals do. Since their domestication people use them in place of children. They are not children. Sometimes dogs behave like children, they whine, cry, whimper, want a lot of attention, but they are NOT children. They provide unconditional love, protection, loyalty to the extent that many people do not. A dog will defend you sacrificing their life to save you, many people will not go that far. They have personalities, needs but they will communicate to you in DOG LANGUAGE. People need to really understand that, and many don't until something tragic happens.

One thing pit bulls are known for is once they clamp their teeth down on someone, they will not release their grip which is why policemen shoot them dead when there is a fight between a pit bull and a person. If they did not do that, the person would most likely end up dead.

The dogs do not have to have a history of violence. There is a pecking order in their mind. Have you seen dogs who pull their owners down the street, those dogs think they are in charge and the person walking them is doing all the can to hold on. The dog should be walking next to the person and one slight tug on the leash to correct them lets the dog know who is in charge. If you tell the dog to do something, it should do that (simple directives, like no, come, stay, wait a minute (stop), down, want dinner? walk?, out?). Most dogs can understand 500 words including commands. Teach them what you want them to know. Don't bribe them, they learn 'I want, I get what I want when I want it'. Reward them, praise them when they do good things, if they are not being good, be calm and tell them no not right now, later, calm down. Don't tell and scream at them explaining why you are pissed off, they will only know you are angry. They are not people or children, that is the bottom line.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2016 at 11:20 PM
gina talking about "dog language" when she's barely coherent in people talk.



LMFAO.

 

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  posted on 1/6/2016 at 02:16 AM
quote:
Pit bulls are incredibly sweet dogs, but any animal that is mistreated or not properly trained can be conditioned to be aggressive. According to the article, it is clear this woman, although she had good intentions, wasn't a capable guardian for her brother (no bathroom? unsupervised for hours?). The video shows she didn't understand basic dog behavior - she babied them and let the dogs dominate the space as their own. Add to that it was a mom dog with pups shows this woman didn't understand the relationship. We don't know the history of the mother dog either.

I've seen Yorkies that are more aggressive than pit bulls. Unfortunately, pit bulls are mistreated more often. Don't blame the breed, blame the owners.


This may all be true, but look at the size of the neck on this breed, not to mention the power of their bite. I'll take the "chomp" from a "Yorkie" everyday of the week.

 

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  posted on 1/6/2016 at 10:00 AM
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This may all be true, but look at the size of the neck on this breed, not to mention the power of their bite. I'll take the "chomp" from a "Yorkie" everyday of the week.


Yes, they have a strong jaw, but that doesn't make them any less trustworthy than a German Shepherd or a Full Poodle. It's up to the owner to teach the dog when and how to use those jaws. Gina, though a little long-winded, is absolutely right: they are pack animals and once they know they are not the leader of the pack, they will obey and behave and be great companions.

 

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  posted on 1/6/2016 at 10:22 AM
I've got a 51 pound American Staffordshire Terrier. She showed up at the house in Macon about 10 years ago. She was frightened and had been abused. It took a lot of time to socialize her but she has turned into a wonderful, well behaved dog.

 

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  posted on 1/6/2016 at 01:51 PM
I've heard all the justifications for pit bulls..........."it's the owner's fault", etc., etc.

Would YOU put your own kids in the same room with one, knowing that someone may not have performed exactly the correct protocol to make a pit bull behave properly? There are too many variables here to make me ever trust a pit bull.

quote:

It's up to the owner to teach the dog when and how to use those jaws.


Uh-Huh. And if the owner says they've trained the dog "to use those jaws", I might as well leave my little kid alone in the room with them, correct? OH YEAH, right, uh-huh...........

[Edited on 1/6/2016 by robslob]

 

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  posted on 1/6/2016 at 02:34 PM
quote:
I've heard all the justifications for pit bulls..........."it's the owner's fault", etc., etc.

Would YOU put your own kids in the same room with one, knowing that someone may not have performed exactly the correct protocol to make a pit bull behave properly? There are too many variables here to make me ever trust a pit bull.

quote:

It's up to the owner to teach the dog when and how to use those jaws.


Uh-Huh. And if the owner says they've trained the dog "to use those jaws", I might as well leave my little kid alone in the room with them, correct? OH YEAH, right, uh-huh...........

[Edited on 1/6/2016 by robslob]



You shouldn't leave a kid alone with any dog. That itself is negligent. I have a pit-mix and she is about as aggressive as a sack of potatoes.

"It's the owner's fault" isn't a justification, it's a fact. Typically, it's law.

The only person I know personally who died as the result of a dog was bitten by a vicious, totally untrained Schnauzer. I don't blame Schnauzers, it's just a breed. The dog was in a poor situation that made it aggressive. I have a friend who rescued an abused Yorkie and babies it rather than trains it. That dog bites people, it's scared and has no boundaries. I wouldn't want kids near it, yet I don't believe that all Yorkies are aggressive.

You are generalizing one breed because it has been the most abused over the past few decades. Dogs, like humans, become aggressive out of fear, self-preservation, or anxiety. If a dog has been raised properly, it will have no reason to attack or be aggressive.

This is a good read by someone who knows dogs:

https://www.cesarsway.com/cesar-millan/cesars-blog/the-most-dangerous-dog

The Most Dangerous Dog

By Cesar Millan

Whenever a dog kills someone it makes the news, but it really isn’t as likely as you might think. You’re 226 times more likely in your lifetime to be killed while walking down the street than to be killed by a dog, and 650 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident, but we haven’t tried to outlaw walking or cars to protect people — yet.

But we have created Breed Specific Legislation (BSL), which are laws that ban the ownership of certain kinds of dogs — generally pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, and several other power breeds. On the surface, there might appear to be statistical logic behind this, but it would be no different than banning only BMWs because more people are hit by them per year.
Related: Why I love pit bulls

Now I have a question for you: What do you think is the most dangerous dog in the world?

If you answered a specific breed — any breed — then you’re wrong. The most dangerous dog in the world is the one that has been made that way by a human, and we only need to look at the pit bull to see why.

A hundred years ago, the major job of the pit bull breeds was to guard the home. Specifically, they kept watch over the children, even babies, and they often did it unsupervised. They had a well-deserved reputation as nanny dogs, and stories of pit bulls attacking humans were unheard of. Before the 1980s, there is only one incident, in 1947, when a pack of pit bulls killed a woman, but the only reason they did that is because a human made them do it.

Things changed in the 1980s as two trends met — dog fighting and gangs — and power breeds, including pit bulls, German shepherds, Rottweilers, and mastiffs, became the dogs of choice. They were used in dog fighting, and they were also trained as attack and guard dogs. Since dog fighting and gangs are both associated with the illegal drug trade, these breeds also made the perfect security to protect drug operations, dealers, and their money.

The reputation has nothing to do with the breed. These same people could have easily decided on St. Bernards or Labrador retrievers or Great Danes as attack or fighting dogs, and could have trained those breeds to do exactly the same thing. For that matter, Yorkies or Chihuahuas could be trained to show all the same aggression.

Of course, the bigger the dog is, the more dangerous it is simply because its bites are more likely to be fatal, but people aren’t only killed by the big dogs. People have been killed by beagles, dachshunds, and even Pomeranians. If you’ve ever seen a Pomeranian, you’re probably finding it hard to imagine that breed as a killer, but it has happened. Any dog can become aggressive, just as any dog can be balanced. The most important part of the equation is not the dog’s breed or the dog’s past. It’s the human Pack Leader involved.

In order to change the present situation we need education. First, we need to teach people that no dog is born to be a killer — we eliminated that need when we domesticated them, so they no longer have to hunt to survive.

Second, we need to teach people that a dog’s behavior is a direct result of the energy of the humans around it. Calm, assertive Pack Leaders have calm, submissive dogs. It’s only when we bring in weak or unstable energy that our dogs develop behavioral issues.

Certain breeds do have specific instincts, of course — sheepdogs herd and spaniels hunt — but by redirecting those instincts in other ways, like through Treibball or agility training, we fulfill the need without it turning into aggression or obsession.

When we first brought dogs into our human packs thousands of years ago we made a promise that still holds when we adopt a dog today: to help the dog live a happy, balanced life by letting it be a dog. There are no troubled breeds. That’s a myth. A dog’s misbehavior begins and ends with us.

Stay calm, and fulfill your dog!

 

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  posted on 1/6/2016 at 09:51 PM
Well, I am gonna chime in on the side of robslob on this one, I don't like these dogs, I have no use for these dogs and I have NO trust of these dogs! I think ownership of them should be strictly licensed, monitored and regulated. I have seen many, many of them raised all different ways and personally would never trust one, bad owner or bad dog, the results are often the same. My 48 pound mixed mutt was viciously attacked by one several months back while taking he and Iwere taking a walk, the pit thought he had my dog by the throat, literally was picking my dog up and shaking it, my dog was jyst crying, turns out the pit had ahold of my dogs thick canvass coller and my dog survived!!! How was I supposed to protect myself and my dog, stick it with my pocket knife? Ha this thing woulda chewed my arm off! Do I need a firearm carry permit to go out for a walk, maybe I can start carrying a Samuri sword when I walk?...........Peace.....joe..... ps.....although my dog was leashed and the other dog was not, the authorities did nothing about it.
 

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  posted on 1/6/2016 at 11:33 PM
I'm siding with Rob and Joe on this, just too many bad owners out there.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 08:56 AM
Of all the breeds to choose from I don't understand why anyone would choose a pit bull, especially if they had children. If an dog owner makes the bad decision to have a pit bull then I suppose it's fair to blame the owner when something bad happens.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 10:20 AM
quote:
Of all the breeds to choose from I don't understand why anyone would choose a pit bull, especially if they had children. If an dog owner makes the bad decision to have a pit bull then I suppose it's fair to blame the owner when something bad happens.



To the low information voter, pit bulls are a status symbol.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 10:31 AM
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Well, I am gonna chime in on the side of robslob on this one, I don't like these dogs, I have no use for these dogs and I have NO trust of these dogs! I think ownership of them should be strictly licensed, monitored and regulated. I have seen many, many of them raised all different ways and personally would never trust one, bad owner or bad dog, the results are often the same. My 48 pound mixed mutt was viciously attacked by one several months back while taking he and Iwere taking a walk, the pit thought he had my dog by the throat, literally was picking my dog up and shaking it, my dog was jyst crying, turns out the pit had ahold of my dogs thick canvass coller and my dog survived!!! How was I supposed to protect myself and my dog, stick it with my pocket knife? Ha this thing woulda chewed my arm off! Do I need a firearm carry permit to go out for a walk, maybe I can start carrying a Samuri sword when I walk?...........Peace.....joe..... ps.....although my dog was leashed and the other dog was not, the authorities did nothing about it.


Sorry you had a bad experience. My boxer was viciously attacked by off leash mixed mutts and a jack russell another time on several separate occasions. Every time it was the owner's fault. If this pit was off leash, it was definitely the owner's fault. Even if the dog was on leash, not all dogs should socialize. There are some nasty beagles across the street from me. They were abused and rescued. I steer clear of them and the owners know to keep them away from other dogs as well. My bulldog-pit mix is petrified of them, but not of the social beagle down the street - because it's not the breed's fault.

quote:
I'm siding with Rob and Joe on this, just too many bad owners out there.


If you are blaming the owners, you are siding with me and disagreeing with them.

quote:
Of all the breeds to choose from I don't understand why anyone would choose a pit bull, especially if they had children. If an dog owner makes the bad decision to have a pit bull then I suppose it's fair to blame the owner when something bad happens.


Because they are incredibly sweet dogs and don't deserve the negative, false rhetoric. Saying it is a "bad decision to get a pit" shows you know absolutely nothing about dogs. There are millions of pits who live with children without incident. It is fair to blame the owner of any dog of an incident due to their negligence.

Let's also clear something up - "Pit Bull" can refer to several different breeds American Pitbull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. So which breed is it you have a problem with? All of them? Just one of them? They aren't all the same, yet uniformed people tend to generalize them and attribute the same negative characteristics upon them.

Rule of thumb is to not trust ANY dog whose history you don't know, regardless of the breed. You shouldn't leave ANY dog unsupervised with your child. All dogs are capable of love and/or aggression. They are not plush toys.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 10:36 AM
quote:
To the low information voter, pit bulls are a status symbol.


And we were having such a good, informative conversation...

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 11:53 AM
quote:
quote:
To the low information voter, pit bulls are a status symbol.


And we were having such a good, informative conversation...




Not surprised at all.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 02:10 PM
quote:

You shouldn't leave a kid alone with any dog.


But that's not reality. It's going to happen.

Scenario: You are sitting in the living room watching TV with your child and your dog. You get up to pee. REALLY now...............do you think dog owners are going to separate their dog and their child every time nature calls or maybe they have to answer the front door in the other room? It's not reality to say that you would. And something bad could happen in an instant.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 02:52 PM
quote:
Pit bulls are incredibly sweet dogs, but any animal that is mistreated or not properly trained can be conditioned to be aggressive.


Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period. The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).

Please name another "incredibly sweet dog" with the same power to kill and maim.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 03:24 PM
quote:
Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period. The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).

Please name another "incredibly sweet dog" with the same power to kill and maim.



What percentage of all pit bulls is that? And, what kind of pit bull?

According to the Guardian police have killed an average of 928 people annually over the last 8 years. Do we ban cops?

More people die annually riding bicycles.

My dogs are licensed, inspected, vaccinated... etc. How do pit bull deaths supersede gun deaths in importance?

Some folks say baseball is America's pastime. The real pastime is 3 card monte. We raise all these minor issues to keep us from dealing with the crap that really matters.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 03:36 PM
quote:
quote:
Pit bulls are incredibly sweet dogs, but any animal that is mistreated or not properly trained can be conditioned to be aggressive.


Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period. The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).

Please name another "incredibly sweet dog" with the same power to kill and maim.


Ok, Full disclosure, dogsbite.org is a website run by a woman named Colleen Lynn who has made it her purpose in life to champion against pit bulls. Her statistics are taken from media selected reports which sensationalize pit bull attacks and have been refuted as an accurate assessment. She is not a reliable source.

Here are the findings from a 2013 study by the American Veterinary Medical Association (http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/dog-bite-related-fatalit ies/):

Based on an analysis of all DBRFs known to have occurred over a ten-year period, the researchers identified a striking co-occurrence of multiple, controllable factors:

• no able-bodied person being present to intervene (87.1%);
• the victim having no familiar relationship with the dog(s) (85.2%);
• the dog(s) owner failing to neuter/spay the dog(s)(84.4%);
• a victim’s compromised ability, whether based on age or physical condition, to manage their interactions with the dog(s) (77.4%);
• the owner keeping dog(s) as resident dog(s), rather than as family pet(s) (76.2%);
• the owner’s prior mismanagement of the dog(s) (37.5%);
• the owner’s abuse or neglect of dog(s) (21.1%).

Four or more of these factors were present in 80.5% of the cases.


Family dogs were rarely involved
76.2% of the DBRFs in this study involved dogs that were not kept as family pets; rather they were only resident on the property. The distinction between a resident dog and a family dog[2] was first proposed years ago by NCRC Founder Karen Delise. Dogs are predisposed to form attachments with people, to become dependent on people, and to rely upon their guidance in unfamiliar situations. While it is extremely rare that dogs living as either resident dogs or as family pets ever inflict serious injuries on humans, dogs not afforded the opportunity for regular, positive interaction with people may be more likely, in situations they perceive as stressful or threatening, to behave in ways primarily to protect themselves.

Breed was not one of the factors identified
The authors report that the breed of the dog or dogs could not be reliably identified in more than 80% of cases. News accounts disagreed with each other and/or with animal control reports in a significant number of incidents, casting doubt on the reliability of breed attributions and more generally for using media reports as a primary source of data for scientific studies. In only 45 (18%) of the cases in this study could these researchers make a valid determination that the animal was a member of a distinct, recognized breed. Twenty different breeds, along with two known mixes, were identified in connection with those 45 incidents.
- See more at: http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/dog-bite-related-fataliti es/#sthash.XOFmna0u.dpuf




According to the humane society, 25% of ALL animal cruelty cases against in the US were against specifically pit bulls. Rottweillers, German Shepherds, Corsos, Great Danes, Huskies, Mastiffs, Dobermans, etc., are all very sweet and have the power to kill a person. People abuse and kill far more pit bulls than pit bulls kill humans.

I am not denying that pit bulls can and have attacked people. But this is not the breed's fault, it is the owner's fault.



[Edited on 1/7/2016 by porkchopbob]

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 03:46 PM
quote:
quote:

You shouldn't leave a kid alone with any dog.


But that's not reality. It's going to happen.

Scenario: You are sitting in the living room watching TV with your child and your dog. You get up to pee. REALLY now...............do you think dog owners are going to separate their dog and their child every time nature calls or maybe they have to answer the front door in the other room? It's not reality to say that you would. And something bad could happen in an instant.



Oh please, you know I meant for an extended period of time, as in regarding the article that started this thread (though it's not a great idea to leave an unattended toddler on the floor next to a poodle). Dogs aren't sitting around waiting for you to take a piss so they can maul your child. ALL dogs have been breed over a millennia to please their owners, to be part of the pack.

Dogs attack people if they have been taught and conditioned to be aggressive or fearful of people.

You can't breed aggression. That's an evolutionary fact.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 04:41 PM
Re: aggression

Put two roosters together and they will fight to the death even if you raised them in a nice comfy environment. So genetics plays a large part and aggression will get passed down with certain breeds of animals.

[Edited on 1/7/2016 by OriginalGoober]

 

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  posted on 1/7/2016 at 05:25 PM
quote:
Re: aggression

Put two roosters together and they will fight to the death even if you raised them in a nice comfy environment. So genetics plays a large part and aggression will get passed down with certain breeds of animals.


So roosters and dogs are the same? Is that why I can't find a rooster at the local pet shelter? Because they are so sought after as pets there are none left?

 

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