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Author: Subject: Large group of armed anti-government protesters take over federal building in Oregon

True Peach





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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 08:31 AM
Dozens of heavily armed anti-government white people have taken over a federal government building in Oregon, yet no big outcry from, well, pretty much anyone.

---------------------------------------

Armed group's leader in federal building: 'We will be here as long as it takes'

(CNN)Armed anti-government protesters have taken over a building in a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon, accusing officials of unfairly punishing ranchers who refused to sell their land.

One of them is Ammon Bundy, the 40-year-old son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who is well-known for anti-government action.

He spoke by phone to CNN on Sunday. Asked several times what he and those with him want, he answered in vague terms, saying that they want the federal government to restore the "people's constitutional rights."

"This refuge -- it has been destructive to the people of the county and to the people of the area," he said.

"People need to be aware that we've become a system where government is actually claiming and using and defending people's rights, and they are doing that against the people."

The group is occupying part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns after gathering outside for a demonstration supporting Dwight and Steven Hammond, father-and-son ranchers who were convicted of arson.

Prosecutors said the Hammonds set a fire that burned about 130 acres in 2001 to cover up poaching. They were sentenced to five years in prison.

The Hammonds, who are set to turn themselves in Monday afternoon, have said they set the fire to reduce the growth of invasive plants and to protect their property from wildfires, CNN affiliate KTVZ reported.

The Hammonds have been clear in that they don't want help from the Bundy group.

"Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney W. Alan Schroeder wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward.

CNN law enforcement analyst Art Roderick, a retired U.S. marshal who investigated anti-government militias for years, warned that Bundy's call for supporters to join him might "turn into a bad situation."

"What's going to happen hopefully (is) ... we don't go out there with a big force, because that's what they're looking for," he said. "The last thing we need is some type of confrontation."

He said that over the years, law enforcement has learned how to handle a situation like this; one that hasn't erupted in violence and in which a law may be broken, but there's no immediate threat to anyone's life.

The best approach now, Roderick said, is to wait the group out and to figure out how to bring a peaceful end to the situation.

The protest has prompted Harney County School District 3 to call off classes for the entire week, Superintendent Dr. Marilyn L. McBride said.

"Schools will open on January 11," she said. "Ensuring staff and student safety is our greatest concern."

'We are not terrorists'

After the march Saturday, the armed protesters broke into the refuge's unoccupied building and refused to leave. Officials have said there are no government employees in the building.

"We will be here as long as it takes," Bundy said. "We have no intentions of using force upon anyone, (but) if force is used against us, we would defend ourselves."

Ammon Bundy said that the group in Oregon was armed, but that he would not describe it as a militia. He declined to say how many people were with him, telling CNN on Sunday that giving that information might jeopardize "operational security."

The elder Bundy drew national attention last year after staging a standoff with federal authorities over a Bureau of Land Management dispute.

"We are not terrorists," Ammon Bundy said. "We are concerned citizens and realize we have to act if we want to pass along anything to our children."

He wouldn't call his group a militia, but others are.

"I don't like the militia's methods," local resident Monica McCannon told KTVZ. "They had their rally. Now it's time for them to go home. People are afraid of them."

What the protesters want

When asked what it would take for the protesters to leave, Bundy did not offer specifics. He said he and those with him are prepared to stay put for days or weeks or "as long as necessary."

"We are using the wildlife refuge as a place for individuals across the United States to come and assist in helping the people of Harney County claim back their lands and resources," he said.

"The people will need to be able to use the land and resources without fear as free men and women. We know it will take some time."

He did not explicitly call on authorities to commute the prison sentences for the Hammonds, but he said their case illustrates officials' "abuse" of power.

"Now that people such as the Hammonds are taking a stand and not selling their ranches, they are being prosecuted in their own courts as terrorists and putting them in prison for five years," Bundy said.

He said the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge has taken over the space of 100 ranches since the early 1900s.

"They are continuing to expand the refuge at the expense of the ranchers and miners," Bundy said.

He also said Harney County, in southeastern Oregon, went from one of the state's wealthiest counties to one of the poorest.

CNN has not independently corroborated Bundy's claims.

"I want to emphasis that the American people are wondering why they can't seem to get ahead or why everything is costing more and you are getting less, and that is because the federal government is taking and using the land and resources," Bundy said.

What the feds say

Acting U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams of Oregon gave a starkly different perspective on the arson case.

His office declined to comment on the situation at the wildlife refuge Saturday, but it cited an opinion piece written by Williams in the Burns Times Herald last month defending the federal prosecutors' actions in the Hammonds case.

"Five years ago, a federal grand jury charged Dwight and Steven Hammond with committing arson on public lands and endangering firefighters," Williams wrote for the newspaper. "Steven Hammond was also found guilty of committing a second arson in 2006."

The prosecutor said witnesses saw the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer on public land.

"At least seven deer were shot with others limping or running from the scene," Williams wrote.

He said a teenage relative of the Hammonds testified that Steven Hammond gave him a box of matches and told him to start the blaze. "The fires destroyed evidence of the deer slaughter and took about 130 acres of public land out of public use for two years," the prosecutor wrote.

Williams also disputed the notion that the Hammonds were prosecuted as terrorists, as Bundy suggested.

"The jury was neither asked if the Hammonds were terrorists, nor were defendants ever charged with or accused of terrorism," Williams wrote. "Suggesting otherwise is simply flat-out wrong."


[Edited on 1/4/2016 by gondicar]

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 09:06 AM

This action certainly raised my awareness of the Hammonds plight and battles with the BLM and FWS federal agencies. Its quite a story of out of control federal overreach and use of unlimited resources to make sure the federal gov gets its way.. The Hammonds did not wither away peacefully and bow down to the feds. Now we are supposed to believe ranchers are terrorists.



 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 09:10 AM
quote:
This action certainly raised my awareness of the Hammonds plight and battles with the BLM and FWS federal agencies. Its quite a story of out of control federal overreach and use of unlimited resources to make sure the federal gov gets its way.. The Hammonds did not wither away peacefully and bow down to the feds. Now we are supposed to believe ranchers are terrorists.

Based on what I have read about this, they certainly seem like terrorists to me. Certainly criminals. I'm not talking about the Hammonds (who had their day in court and lost) but Ammon Bundy and the other occupiers...according to public statements, the Hammonds did not ask for nor do they want the "help".


"Let's begin with what to call the Oregon anti-government protesters who have taken over a federal building. The men, heavily armed, urging others to come support their cause, and claiming somehow that, while peaceful, they will "defend" themselves whatever it takes, are -- by any definition -- domestic terrorists.

It does not matter that they insist they are peaceful or some sort of lawful militia; I can claim I'm 26 years old and a size 2 and that still doesn't make it true. This group of men is wielding terror, and the threat of violence, as if it were their constitutional right.

So, let's stop with the wrenching discussions of who they are.

They are dangerous, they are unforgiving, they are flouting federal law, they have a political purpose and they clearly are willing to use violence to get their way. Simply because they are not Muslim jihadists does not mean they are authorized to threaten or use violence to support their political cause," writes CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem for CNN Opinion.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/opinions/kayyem-oregon-building-takeover-terr orism/index.html





[Edited on 1/4/2016 by gondicar]

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 09:55 AM
quote:
The conversation about race in this context bores me. I'm not picking on you gondicar, I read the news today too and see what some of the commentary is about and I don't agree with it.

I've yet to see any Muslim jihadist operation carried out in this manner. The Bundy guy is doing T.V. interviews for crying out loud. This isn't terrorism, they aren't terrorists, and it's not because they are white.

This is not to say I don't regard the Bundy's as outlaws, criminals, and representative of a scary and disgusting segment of the U.S. population.

Outlaws. That's the word I'm gonna use.

I understand your point (I think). This is not "terrorism" as we have come to understand it in the context of Muslim extremism. But by the textbook definition it certainly seems like terrorism to me.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 10:06 AM
occupying federal buildings or land for political purposes is against the law. in general, when it happens, people are dragged away peacefully and face minor charges. if these guys do not relent and this escalates I will shed no tears for them. if you support this group of people, I would think you would/should support all kinds of different groups to use the same tactics against OUR gov't for whatever disagreement. allowing anyone and every cause to just take over federal property for their causes is a bad idea. we have courts and laws to handle disagreements.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 10:21 AM
Some of the backstory about the capricious nature of the tactics employed by the feds to terrorize ranchers:


http://www.thefencepost.com/news/18847695-113/two-members-of-oregons-hammon d-family-to-serve


Two members of Oregon's Hammond family to serve time in prison after burning 140 acres of BLM land




The story could set the stage for a western-style soap opera.

“I call it ‘as the sagebrush burns,’” said Erin Maupin of the long and storied history involving the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), special interest groups and the cattle ranchers on the Steens Mountain of Oregon.

The latest scene involved two ranchers being sentenced to five years in federal prison for inadvertantly burning about 140 acres of BLM rangeland in two separate fires, years ago. That is an area big enough to feed about three cow-calf pairs for a year in that neck of the woods.

Dwight, 73 and son Steven, 46, admitted in a 2012 court case, to lighting two different fires. Both fires started on Hammonds’ private property.

The Harney County ranchers are paying the BLM $400,000 in a separate settlement.


“The story is like an onion, you just keep peeling back the layers,”

“The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area,” said the Department of Justice news release.

“The Jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightening storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt to save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by the BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons,” continued the DOJ release.

The two men were sentenced to prison in 2012. Steve served eleven months and Dwight three.

The men were charged with nine counts, including conspiracy, using aerial surveillance of sites they burned, attempting to destroy vehicles and other property with fire, and more. Dwight and Steve were found guilty of two counts – the two fires they readily admitted to starting on their own property.

In order to draw the original court case to a close, the two men, in a plea deal, agreed that they would not appeal the 2012 sentence.

The Department of Justice news release said arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. Judge Michael Hogan, however, did not give the two men the minimum sentence called for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, saying it would have been “grossly disproportionate” to the crime. He added that a longer sentence would not meet any idea he has of justice and that he didn’t even believe congress intended that act to be applied in cases like the Hammond one. A longer sentence than the few months he gave them would “shock his conscience” he said.

The Department of Justice appealed for a full sentence.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed to a review of the case and District Chief Judge Ann Aiken went ahead with a full sentence – five years in federal prison for both men, minus time already spent.


The fires

The first, in 2001, was a planned burn on Hammonds’ own property to reduce juniper trees that have become invasive in that part of the country. That fire burned outside the Hammonds’ private property line and took in 138 acres of unfenced BLM land before the Hammonds got it put out. No BLM firefighters were needed to help extinguish the fire and no fences were damaged.

Dwight’s wife Susan shared some crucial details in an exclusive interview with TSLN.

“They called and got permission to light the fire,” she said, adding that was customary for ranchers conducting range management burns – a common practice in the area.

“We usually called the interagency fire outfit – a main dispatch – to be sure someone wasn’t in the way or that weather would be a problem.” Susan said her son Steven was told that the BLM was conducting a burn of their own somewhere in the region that very same day, but that they believed there would be no problem with the Hammonds going ahead with their planned fire. The court transcript includes the same information in a recording from that phone conversation.

In cross-examination of a prosecution witness, the court transcript also includes admission from Mr. Ward, a range conservationist that the 2001 fire improved the rangeland conditions on BLM.

Maupin, a former range technician and watershed specialist who resigned from the BLM in 1999, said that collaborative burns between private ranchers and the BLM had become popular in the late 1990s because local university extension researchers were recommending it as a means to manage invasive juniper that steal water from grass and other cover.

“Juniper encroachment had become an issue on the forefront and was starting to come to a head. We were trying to figure out how to deal with it on a large scale,” said the woman whose family also neighbored the Hammonds for a couple of years.

“In 1999, the BLM started to try to do large scale burn projects. We started to be successful on the Steens Mountain especially when we started to do it on a large watershed scale as opposed to trying to follow property lines.”

Because private and federal land is intermingled, collaborative burns were much more effective than individual burns that would cover a smaller area, Maupin said.

Susan said the second fire, in 2006, was a backfire started by Steven to protect their property from lightening fires.

“There was fire all around them that was going to burn our house and all of our trees and everything. The opportunity to set a back-fire was there and it was very successful. It saved a bunch of land from burning,” she remembers.

The BLM asserts that one acre of federal land was burned by the Hammonds’ backfire and Susan says determining which fire burned which land is “a joke” because fire burned from every direction.

Neighbor Ruthie Danielson also remembers that evening and agrees. “Lightening strikes were everywhere, fires were going off,” she said.

Maupin said prescribed burns to manage juniper were common in the late 1990s and early 2000s, best done late in the fall when the days are cooler.

Prescribed burns on federal land in their area have all but stopped due to pressure from “special interest groups,” Maupin said. As a result, wildfires now burn much hotter due to a “ladder” of material on the ground – grass, brush and trees.

“The fires now burn really hot and they sterilize the ground. Then you have a weed patch that comes back.”

Maupin said planned burning in cooler weather like the Hammonds chose to do improves the quality of the forage, and makes for better sage grouse habitat by removing juniper trees that suck up water and house raptors – a sage grouse predator.

After 34 years working for the U.S. Forest Service in Oregon, Rusty Inglis resigned from his position with the federal government and now ranches about 40 miles from the Hammonds and is unique in the area – he has no federal land permits and operates strictly on private land.

“The Hammond family is not arsonists. They are number one, top notch. They know their land management.”

Inglis, president of his county Farm Bureau organization and a member of the Oregon Cattlemen’s Association said both groups are working to help gain media attention for the Hammond case. The state Farm Bureau group gathered signatures online for a petition to show widespread support for the family. “Enough is enough. We are not in Nazi Germany. We are in the United States of America.”


Charges

The Hammonds were charged with 9 counts in the original court case.

The BLM accused the Hammonds of several 2006 fires, including a large one known as the Granddad, which blazed about 46,000 acres.

According to the 2012 sentencing document, the jury found the men innocent or were deadlocked on all but two counts – the two fires the men admitted to starting – burning a total of about 140 acres.

Judge Hogen dismissed testimony from a disgruntled grandson who testified that the 2001 fire endangered his life and that of local hunters, saying the boy was very young and referencing a feud that may have influenced the testimony.

“Well, the damage was juniper trees and sagebrush, and there might have been a hundred dollars.” He added.



More to the story?

During her tenure with as a full time BLM employee from 1997-1999, Maupin recalls other fires accidentally spilling over onto BLM land, but only the Hammonds have been charged, arrested and sentenced, she said. Ranchers might be burning invasive species or maybe weeds in the ditch. “They would call and the BLM would go and help put it out and it was not big deal.”

On the flip side, Maupin remembers numerous times that BLM-lit fires jumped to private land. Neighbors lost significant numbers of cattle in more than one BLM fire that escaped intended containment lines and quickly swallowed up large amounts of private land. To her knowledge, no ranchers have been compensated for lost livestock or other loss of property such as fences.

Gary Miller, who ranches near Frenchglen, about 35 miles from the Hammonds’ hometown, said that in 2012, the BLM lit numerous backfires that ended up burning his private land, BLM permit and killed about 65 cows.

A youtube.com video named BLM Working at Burning Frenchglen-July 10, 2012 shows “back burn” fires allegedly lit by BLM personnel that are upwind of the main fire, including around Gary Miller’s corrals. The fire that appeared ready to die down several times, eventually burned around 160,000 acres, Miller said.

Bill Wilber, a Harney County rancher, said five lightening strikes on July 13, 2014, merged to create a fire on Bartlett Mountain. The fire flew through his private ground, burned a BLM allotment and killed 39 cows and calves.

While the fire could have been contained and stopped, BLM restrictions prevent local firefighting efforts like building a fireline, so only after taking in 397,000 acres did the fire finally stop when it came up against a series of roads.

Two South Dakota prescribed burns, ignited by the U.S. Forest Service, blew out of control, burning thousands of acres of federal and private land in 2013. Ranchers that suffered extensive property damage from the Perkins County, South Dakota, “Pautre fire,” filed tort claims in accordance with federal requirements, but will receive no compensation because USDA found the U.S. Forest Service not responsible for that fire.



Why the Hammonds?

“The story is like an onion, you just keep peeling back the layers,” Maupin said.

In an effort to stave off what they feared was a pending Clinton/Babbitt monument designation in 2000, a group of ranchers on the scenic Steens Mountain worked with Oregon Representative Greg Walden, a republican, to draft and enact the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act that would prevent such a deed. The ranchers agreed to work with special interest “environmental” groups like the aggressive Oregon Natural Desert Association and others to protect the higher-than 10,000 foot breathtaking peak.

A number of ranchers at the top of the mountain traded their BLM permits and private property for land on the valley floor, allowing the anti-grazing groups to create a 170,000 acre wilderness, with almost 100,000 acres being “cow-free.”

“The last holdouts on that cow-free wilderness were the Hammonds,” explained Maupin. And because the Hammonds have large chunks of private property in the heart of the cooperative management area, they carried a target on their backs.

“It’s become more and more obvious over the years that that the BLM and the wildlife refuge want that ranch. It would tie in with what they have,” said Inglis.

The Hammonds also lost their ability to water cattle on one BLM permit when refuge personnel drained a watering hole that the Hammonds had always used.

Maupin said the government scientists and resource managers working “on the ground” supported the Hammonds’ use of the water but that the high level bureaucrats backed special interest anti-grazing groups. “There is a huge disconnect between employees on the ground and the decision-makers,” she said, building tension between ranchers and federal agencies.

In the Hammonds’ plea agreement in the 2012 trial, the BLM obtained the first right of refusal should the family have to sell their land and BLM leases, Maupin added.

The Maupins themselves had a small lease that also bordered the “cow-free wilderness” and the Oregon Natural Desert Association was “relentless in their pursuit to have us off, in order to expand the cow-free wilderness,” Maupin said. The group would criticize the ranchers’ water usage, causing them to pipe water to their cattle, which in turn instigated more complaints from the group.

Eventually the Maupins sold their permit and moved.

But the Hammonds remained.



Steve and Dwight Hammond will turn themselves in to for their prison sentences in early January, Susan said.

The family has sold cattle. Their BLM permit has not been renewed for two years, leaving them unable to use even a large amount of intermingled private land.

The family is in the “last challenge” to re-obtain their grazing permit. “I don’t know what happens after that,” Susan said. “We have done everything according to their rules and regulations and there is no reason that they should not give us back our permit.”

The five-year prison sentence sets a worrisome precedent for area ranchers, Maupin said.

“Now the sky is the limit. It doesn’t have to be fire, it can be trespass with cattle.”

Another precedent – one for fire that burns beyond expectations – should apply to everyone, including federal employees, though, Maupin points out.

Susan Hammond isn’t sure where to go from here.

“We’ve been fighting it for five years. We don’t want to destroy people as we are fighting it even if it is a BLM employee,” she said, “They live in our community and they have families. We respect that.” The situation could get even more ugly but that “it’s not going to be our fault,” she said.

Maupin talked about the Hammonds helping her and her husband with ranch work, like hauling cattle, lending portable panels and never expecting anything in return. Wilber recalled them hauling 4-H calves to the fair for neighbors and Inglis said Dwight once offered to lend him money because he thought he needed help. “Here’s a guy with $400,000 in fines and legal bills I can’t imagine, worrying about my welfare,” said Inglis.

“I think that’s the biggest point of all of this – how can you prosecute people as terrorists when they aren’t a terrorist?”

Property rights attorney Karen Budd-Falen from Cheyenne, Wyoming, agrees. “What totally amazes me is what these guys did – they burned 140 acres. If you compare that to the EPA spill in Colorado, it amazes me that nothing will happen to those EPA employees. You have cities down there with no drinking water. The Hammonds didn’t do anything like that,” Budd-Falen said.

“It’s going to get worse before it gets better,” said Maupin.

The BLM deferred all questions to the Department of Justice who shared their official news release but did not respond to e-mailed questions as of print time

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 10:36 AM
The Hammonds have distanced themselves from these clowns.

Drone strike please.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 10:45 AM
I wonder if Trump will propose banning old white men from entering the United States.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 10:54 AM
quote:
Some of the backstory about the capricious nature of the tactics employed by the feds to terrorize ranchers:


That's hilarious. Now you are labeling the Feds as terrorists. Yet these guys allegedly carried out a deer cull on a wildlife refuge and covered it up with arson. And you act like they aren't criminals. That's great Goober. Please go join the Bundys.

The actions of Ya'll Queda and their Ye Hawd against the United States Government are traitorous actions against the United States. These guys are trying to steal land from the People of the United States and the far right wants to make them out to be heroes.

I'm with tbomike... "Drone strike please."

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 11:23 AM
You can ignore the backstory detailing the history and the tactics used by the feds or the waste of resources to revisit and upgrade their criminal sentences which sounds right out of a Soviet gulag or banana repbublic. Right now this is nothing more than a peaceful protest in an unoccupied gov building to highlight land management freedoms eroding away in a part of the country where the decision makers (federal bureaucrats) have no concept about the reality on the ground or how their decisions impact the residents.



 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 11:37 AM
quote:
Right now this is nothing more than a peaceful protest

Peaceful protesters generally don't arm themselves to the teeth with semi-auto weapons and threaten to use them. Just sayin'.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 11:54 AM
quote:
quote:
Right now this is nothing more than a peaceful protest

Peaceful protesters generally don't arm themselves to the teeth with semi-auto weapons and threaten to use them. Just sayin'.


I don't lust for an armed confrontation either. Lets hope it stays that way.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:18 PM
quote:
You can ignore the backstory detailing the history and the tactics used by the feds or the waste of resources to revisit and upgrade their criminal sentences which sounds right out of a Soviet gulag or banana repbublic.


They culled deer on a National Wildlife Refuge then attempted to cover their criminal acts with arson.

You Right Wingers are a treasonous bunch Yo.

The Bundys have an entirely different agenda and I sincerely hope they are arrested. They are armed terrorists holding property of the United States Government and need to be dealt with swiftly and severely.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:20 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right now this is nothing more than a peaceful protest

Peaceful protesters generally don't arm themselves to the teeth with semi-auto weapons and threaten to use them. Just sayin'.


I don't lust for an armed confrontation either.

That ship sailed the moment they armed themselves and took over the building. It is an armed confrontation now, not a peaceful protest IMO.

quote:
Lets hope it stays that way.

I hope it ends without shots being fired as well.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:29 PM
This group should call themselves Rich White Ranchers Wealth Matters. It is much the same thing except nobody in their group has actually been shot.
 

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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:39 PM
quote:
quote:
You can ignore the backstory detailing the history and the tactics used by the feds or the waste of resources to revisit and upgrade their criminal sentences which sounds right out of a Soviet gulag or banana repbublic.


They culled deer on a National Wildlife Refuge then attempted to cover their criminal acts with arson.

You Right Wingers are a treasonous bunch Yo.

The Bundys have an entirely different agenda and I sincerely hope they are arrested. They are armed terrorists holding property of the United States Government and need to be dealt with swiftly and severely.




I think you are a little too worked up over this "poaching" incident. First of all , from what I have recently read, there were no poaching related charges or fines ever filed. Nobody went to jail for poaching. Hard to make this a case if there was no criminal act proven in a court of law. This poaching charge doesn't pass the smell test either as the family in question have former BLM employees saying that they practiced responsible land management. Did they shoot a deer not on their land? Maybe, but as a cattle farmer its hard to call it poaching when you are surrounded by grass fed beef and the gov wants to pretend you are stealing a deer carcass. Also, there is a documented pattern of BLM tactics practiced which forced out many ranch owners.

 

____________________

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:40 PM
As we speak Sean Hannity just touched down at a local airport and will have the latest tonite on Fox news.

 

____________________

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:48 PM
Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire.

the building was unoccupied for the holidays, it is not an unoccupied building.

 

____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:51 PM
quote:
I wonder if Trump will propose banning old white men from entering the United States.



That's his key voter demographic.

 

____________________
Hittin' The Web::Hugh Duty Memorial Giveaway has begun!

RIP Hugh Duty

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2976
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Status: Offline

  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:58 PM
quote:
Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire.

the building was unoccupied for the holidays, it is not an unoccupied building.


It was later acknowledged his testimony was not credible as he was both feuding with the family and had psychological issues .

 

____________________

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 12:59 PM
Let me see. So a group of armed white folks taking over a building is no real cause for concern because they have gripes. So please no confrontations. A 12 year old black kid with a toy gun in an open carry state is shot within 2 seconds of a police vehicle stopping. Oh it got it.

Drone strike these clowns.

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
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  posted on 1/4/2016 at 01:03 PM
quote:
quote:
I wonder if Trump will propose banning old white men from entering the United States.



That's his key voter demographic.


 

____________________

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5371
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Registered: 9/9/2011
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/4/2016 at 01:14 PM
quote:
quote:
Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire.

the building was unoccupied for the holidays, it is not an unoccupied building.


It was later acknowledged his testimony was not credible as he was both feuding with the family and had psychological issues .


all I can say is if the testimony and evidence was flawed, it should be easy to beat this legally on appeal. seems the people occupying the buildings time would be better spent raising money for a good appeals team.

 

____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4384
(4395 all sites)
Registered: 12/18/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/4/2016 at 02:07 PM
The Hammond's don't want the protesters/domestic yerrorists there.

The people of the town and county don't want them there either,.

The Hammond's went to prison peacefully.

Who are the protesters/domestic terrorists protesting for?

As long as these people are allowed to create armed camps with no repercussions, laws mean little. Sooner or later, there will be shots fired and people killed.

OriginalGoober, when did you decide that it is OK to disobey the law? I thought conservatives were all about abiding laws.

[Edited on 1/4/2016 by jkeller]

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8261
(8261 all sites)
Registered: 6/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/4/2016 at 02:29 PM
quote:
I think you are a little too worked up over this "poaching" incident. First of all , from what I have recently read, there were no poaching related charges or fines ever filed. Nobody went to jail for poaching. Hard to make this a case if there was no criminal act proven in a court of law. This poaching charge doesn't pass the smell test either as the family in question have former BLM employees saying that they practiced responsible land management. Did they shoot a deer not on their land? Maybe, but as a cattle farmer its hard to call it poaching when you are surrounded by grass fed beef and the gov wants to pretend you are stealing a deer carcass. Also, there is a documented pattern of BLM tactics practiced which forced out many ranch owners.


Hey Goober. At least one of the fires was set to cover up evidence of the culling. It was not a single deer. The poaching was done on a National Wildlife Preserve. The fires destroyed 140 acres.

The Bundy's want free land so they don't have to pay to "grass feed" the cattle they sell to Whole Foods.

Why in the world do you support these rich privileged ranchers? Why are you so willing to use your tax dollars to supplement their grazing fees? And now, why are you happy using your tax dollars to amass the forces it will take to disperse, arrest, and imprison these arrogant, rich, privileged ranchers?

This is welfare for rich folks.

 

____________________
Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.

Ralph Nader's Father


 
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