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Author: Subject: How to help

World Class Peach





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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 04:11 PM

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 04:13 PM
Wow, you spend time to write out a thoughtful post on how to help California attenuate part of the drought and al you get is a blank entry. OK, I'll just do it again.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 04:51 PM
Southern California is near the ocean, right?
Southern California gets a lot of sunlight, right?
Southern California has several abandoned military bases, right?
So why doesn't California put those areas to good use to alleviate their drought conditions and re-supply the aquifer that's being drawn down on a daily basis?
At least one city has done something about it and treats its' wastewater to a point of drinkable quality and pumps it back into the aquifer.
The state, and larger communities could do the following.
Use the abandoned air bases and naval stations with their large areas of level ground to take salt water and generate fresh water.
The water could be used in their municipal systems as that it would be basically distilled water. The same type of system to generate fresh water from salt water could also generate fresh water from sewage and waste water from manufacturing plants. All water used would be re-cycled, continuously, with any extra being pumped back into the aquifer.

Think of how this could be done without using any fossil fuel to treat the water. Can't think of any? Why not? I'm sure there are a few old hippy types here who remember some of the ways we were going to change the world and not do things as all the old fuddy duddys did before us.

Do any of you remember SOLAR COOKERS? Yep. The way we tried to get third world countries to heat homes and cook food that would help keep them from cutting down rain forests and burning that old nasty coal can help do all that.

First, build long, wide troughs out of waterproof material (using re-cycled plastics would help) about a foot deep.
Build a high, sloping framework over the troughs that hold panes of glass (no Plexiglas, it goes foggy after a few years of exposure to sunlight) that end up into gutter type drain.
Erect solar cookers at intervals along each trough (outside the actual building) with insulated lines that would circulate the hot fluid from the solar cooker to the troughs.
The sun heats up the fluid in the cooker to as much as 300 degrees F. The hot fluid circulates through the water to the cooker by using one way valves.
The heated water (not boiling) steams up into the structure and condenses on the cooler glass panels, rolling down the surface to the gutter below. The gutter is slightly higher at the center point and lowest at each end so the condensate flows to the ends for collection.
So far, you have fresh water and the only fossil fuel used was to run the pumps to draw sea water to the area and to pump the fresh water to the municipal supply.

Please note: Sewage would quite probably need to be run through two different evaporators to insure best quality.
Also, by using a durable liner in the evaporators, minerals left over from the sea water can be gathered and solld to help defray costs.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 05:45 PM
quote:
Southern California is near the ocean, right?
Southern California gets a lot of sunlight, right?
Southern California has several abandoned military bases, right?
So why doesn't California put those areas to good use to alleviate their drought conditions and re-supply the aquifer that's being drawn down on a daily basis?
At least one city has done something about it and treats its' wastewater to a point of drinkable quality and pumps it back into the aquifer.
The state, and larger communities could do the following.
Use the abandoned air bases and naval stations with their large areas of level ground to take salt water and generate fresh water.
The water could be used in their municipal systems as that it would be basically distilled water. The same type of system to generate fresh water from salt water could also generate fresh water from sewage and waste water from manufacturing plants. All water used would be re-cycled, continuously, with any extra being pumped back into the aquifer.

Think of how this could be done without using any fossil fuel to treat the water. Can't think of any? Why not? I'm sure there are a few old hippy types here who remember some of the ways we were going to change the world and not do things as all the old fuddy duddys did before us.

Do any of you remember SOLAR COOKERS? Yep. The way we tried to get third world countries to heat homes and cook food that would help keep them from cutting down rain forests and burning that old nasty coal can help do all that.

First, build long, wide troughs out of waterproof material (using re-cycled plastics would help) about a foot deep.
Build a high, sloping framework over the troughs that hold panes of glass (no Plexiglas, it goes foggy after a few years of exposure to sunlight) that end up into gutter type drain.
Erect solar cookers at intervals along each trough (outside the actual building) with insulated lines that would circulate the hot fluid from the solar cooker to the troughs.
The sun heats up the fluid in the cooker to as much as 300 degrees F. The hot fluid circulates through the water to the cooker by using one way valves.
The heated water (not boiling) steams up into the structure and condenses on the cooler glass panels, rolling down the surface to the gutter below. The gutter is slightly higher at the center point and lowest at each end so the condensate flows to the ends for collection.
So far, you have fresh water and the only fossil fuel used was to run the pumps to draw sea water to the area and to pump the fresh water to the municipal supply.

Please note: Sewage would quite probably need to be run through two different evaporators to insure best quality.
Also, by using a durable liner in the evaporators, minerals left over from the sea water can be gathered and solld to help defray costs.
Those things are already being done.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 07:01 PM
.
Those things are already being done.


Didn't find anything on that while doing the research. Where are they using the solar cookers?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 08:59 PM
quote:
Southern California is near the ocean, right?
Southern California gets a lot of sunlight, right?
Southern California has several abandoned military bases, right?
So why doesn't California put those areas to good use to alleviate their drought conditions and re-supply the aquifer that's being drawn down on a daily basis?
At least one city has done something about it and treats its' wastewater to a point of drinkable quality and pumps it back into the aquifer.
The state, and larger communities could do the following.
Use the abandoned air bases and naval stations with their large areas of level ground to take salt water and generate fresh water.
The water could be used in their municipal systems as that it would be basically distilled water. The same type of system to generate fresh water from salt water could also generate fresh water from sewage and waste water from manufacturing plants. All water used would be re-cycled, continuously, with any extra being pumped back into the aquifer.

Think of how this could be done without using any fossil fuel to treat the water. Can't think of any? Why not? I'm sure there are a few old hippy types here who remember some of the ways we were going to change the world and not do things as all the old fuddy duddys did before us.

Do any of you remember SOLAR COOKERS? Yep. The way we tried to get third world countries to heat homes and cook food that would help keep them from cutting down rain forests and burning that old nasty coal can help do all that.

First, build long, wide troughs out of waterproof material (using re-cycled plastics would help) about a foot deep.
Build a high, sloping framework over the troughs that hold panes of glass (no Plexiglas, it goes foggy after a few years of exposure to sunlight) that end up into gutter type drain.
Erect solar cookers at intervals along each trough (outside the actual building) with insulated lines that would circulate the hot fluid from the solar cooker to the troughs.
The sun heats up the fluid in the cooker to as much as 300 degrees F. The hot fluid circulates through the water to the cooker by using one way valves.
The heated water (not boiling) steams up into the structure and condenses on the cooler glass panels, rolling down the surface to the gutter below. The gutter is slightly higher at the center point and lowest at each end so the condensate flows to the ends for collection.
So far, you have fresh water and the only fossil fuel used was to run the pumps to draw sea water to the area and to pump the fresh water to the municipal supply.

Please note: Sewage would quite probably need to be run through two different evaporators to insure best quality.
Also, by using a durable liner in the evaporators, minerals left over from the sea water can be gathered and solld to help defray costs.


Good ideas, but who would build them using what money? As soon as someone proposes something of this nature, politicians will be sure to come in and screw it all up.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 09:38 PM
quote:
.
Those things are already being done.


Didn't find anything on that while doing the research. Where are they using the solar cookers?

Call Jerry Brown!

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2015 at 09:39 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/california-drought/tapping-pacific-desalin ation-plant-hopes-make-ocean-drinkable-n373706
 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2015 at 08:08 PM
quote:
quote:
.
Those things are already being done.


Didn't find anything on that while doing the research. Where are they using the solar cookers?

Call Jerry Brown!


What would you like me to call him? Probably not what I'd want to, I guess.

The problem with the desalination plants as stated in the article is that they use large amounts on energy (3kWh per cubic meter on the low side, over 5 kWh per cubic meter on the high side) , not to mention money, for a relatively small return. It would almost be as cheap, and carbon neutral, to boil seawater and then run it through a chilling tower.

The method I described doesn't use any outside energy except to run the pumps, and that could be dismissed if a large solar cooker was hooked to a small power generator. Better yet, have the motors run on DC and use bi-metal thermo-couples to generate the dc power from the heat coming from the pipes carrying the heated fluid.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2015 at 08:18 PM
http://dinnerinabottle.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA

[Edited on 8/19/2015 by LeglizHemp]

 

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Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/19/2015 at 06:25 PM
California has water problems eh? Leave it to the California government to make it worse:

LA 'black ball' reservoir rollout potential 'disaster' in the making, say experts
By Hollie McKay - Published August 19, 2015 - FoxNews.com

LA's scheme to cover a reservoir under 96 million "shade balls" may not be all it is touted to be, experts told FoxNews.com, with some critics going so far as to refer to the plan as a "potential disaster."

The city made national headlines last week when Mayor Eric Garcetti and Department of Water officials dumped $34.5 million worth of the tiny, black plastic balls into the city's 175-acre Van Norman Complex reservoir in the Sylmar section. Garcetti said the balls would create a surface layer that would block 300 million gallons from evaporating amid the state's crippling drought and save taxpayers $250 million.

Experts differed over the best color for the tiny plastic balls, with one telling FoxNews.com they should have been white and another saying a chrome color would be optimal. But all agreed that the worst color for the job is the one LA chose.

"Black spheres resting in the hot sun will form a thermal blanket speeding evaporation as well as providing a huge amount of new surface area for the hot water to breed bacteria," said Matt MacLeod, founder of the California biotech firm Modern Moon Farms. "Disaster. It’s going to be a bacterial nightmare.”

"It’s going to be a bacterial nightmare.”

- Matt MacLeod, Modern Moon Farms

Any color covering will help stop wind-driven evaporation, said Robert Shibatani. principal hydrologist for the Sacramento-based environmental consultant The Shibitani Group. But when it comes to the hot summer sun sucking water out of the reservoir, color is everything, he said.

"Ideally you would want a chrome surface," he said. "The worst would be matte black, which has a reflectivity close to zero."

Biologist Nathan Krekula, a professor of health science at Bryant & Stratton College in Milwaukee, said black balls will absorb heat, transfer it to the water and cause evaporation. And he agreed with MacLeod that the heat will prove hospitable to bacteria.

Los Angeles City Councilman Mitch Englander, Mayor Eric Garcetti (wearing a yellow tie) and LADWP workers deposit the final installment of 96 million shade balls into the Los Angeles Reservoir. (Art Mochizuki, LADWP)

"Bacteria required a few things to grow a dark, warm and moist environment," he said. "The balls will give them the perfect environment to live in.

"What works in backyard fish pond does not always transfer to large scale system such as this, Krekula added. "Keeping the balls clean when covered in bacteria and mold slime will be a monumental task."

Dennis Santiago, a risk analyst for Torrance-based Total Bank Solutions, suspects the real goal for the black-ball cover is to avoid steep Environmental Protection Agency fines. The federal agency's "Long-Term 2 Enhanced Surface Water Treatment Rule," announced in 2006, would require public and private water utilities to spend billions to cover open-air reservoirs that hold treated water to prevent contamination. Officials in several districts around the nation have balked at the EPA mandate, notably in New York, where lawmakers are fighting to block a $1.6 billion concrete cover the EPA has ordered built over a Yonkers reservoir.

“This is not about evaporation," Santiago said. "The water savings spin is purely political. What the black balls are really about is that [Los Angeles] needs to stay in-compliance with an EPA requirement to place a physical cover over potable water reservoirs.”

Garcetti's office did note that the ball covering provides a "cost-effective investment that brings the LA Reservoir into compliance with new federal water quality mandates," but its emphasis on blocking evaporation was the clear focus at the event. Los Angeles Department of Water spokesman Albert Rodriguez told FoxNews.com the city has plenty of time to get in compliance with the EPA.

While this latest shade ball initiative continues to generate publicity, it is not the first time Los Angeles utilized the concept. After high levels of bromate, a potentially carcinogenic chemical, were found in the Silver Lake and Ivanhoe reservoirs in 2008, the Department of Water deployed the balls.

Sydney Chase, president of XavierC, one of the shade ball supply companies behind the project, said the color is a result of pure black carbon being added to the high density polyethylene plastic to take in ultra-violet rays and subsequently stop sunlight from penetrating the plastic. Any other color would have required dyes, said Rodriguez, which could have then leached into the water while the carbon black does not.





 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2015 at 12:27 PM
That would be funny if it wasn't so stupid.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2015 at 03:50 PM
quote:
That would be funny if it wasn't so stupid.
The only thing "stupid" is two fools giving credibility to an opinion piece[of sh!t] from fox news.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2015 at 07:58 PM
quote:
quote:
That would be funny if it wasn't so stupid.
The only thing "stupid" is two fools giving credibility to an opinion piece[of sh!t] from fox news.

__________________________________________________________________________

Not an opinion piece dumba$$.

The same LA government fiasco was reported by The LA Times and The A/P.

You still can't tell the difference between fact reporting and opinion. Pity.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2015 at 09:25 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
That would be funny if it wasn't so stupid.
The only thing "stupid" is two fools giving credibility to an opinion piece[of sh!t] from fox news.

__________________________________________________________________________

Not an opinion piece dumba$$.

The same LA government fiasco was reported by The LA Times and The A/P.

You still can't tell the difference between fact reporting and opinion. Pity.

LA times?, post it . you will only find stories like this at fox news, the news outlet of brain dead trailer trash. [like yourself]

[Edited on 8/21/2015 by pops42]

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2015 at 09:43 PM
pops, even you can learn a new skill... if you try real hard:

Internet Searching For Dummies
http://www.amazon.com/Internet-Searching-Dummies-Brad-Hill/dp/0764504789

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2015 at 11:04 PM
quote:
pops, even you can learn a new skill... if you try real hard:

Internet Searching For Dummies
http://www.amazon.com/Internet-Searching-Dummies-Brad-Hill/dp/0764504789

why don't you take YOUR own advice, you lazy dipsh!t.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2015 at 12:02 AM
quote:

You still can't tell the difference between fact reporting and opinion. Pity.




That may be the funniest and most ironic thing I have seen posted here.......

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2015 at 09:11 AM
The irony comes in the fact that the people in California refuse recognize let alone admit the reasons for their water problems.

Much of California’s water problems are the result of actions, or inaction, by environmental extremists and liberal politicians.

Crying Global Warming doesn’t fill the lakes and rivers.


 
 


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