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Author: Subject: On this date 150 years ago ended the bloodiest conflict ever fought in the western hemishpere

True Peach





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  posted on 4/9/2015 at 11:36 AM
On this day, April 9, 1865, General Robert E. Lee, commander of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia, surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant, commanding general of the Union Army, at Appomattox Court House in Virginia.

The 1860s were were such a difficult period in our young nation's history, and even as we continue to grapple with some of the very same issues across this great land, it is hard to really understand what life was like at the time...not just the day-to-day life of "ordinary" Americans, but how the leaders of the time were some how able put the country back together. Makes some of today's political skirmishes seem trivial by comparison. The war itself may have been won on the battlefield, but the underlying issues that had triggered the conflict in the first place had yet to be resolved. What would be the fate of the planter class? Would federal power tame the might of the states? How far would be extended the protections of national citizenship? And what rights, if any, did freedom confer to the enslaved African Americans the war had emancipated? Things that seem so obvious (or not depending on your point of view, I guess) and/or are simply taken for granted now, were anything but then.

Anyway, the article at the link below is what got me thinking about this...it is an interesting read about the role Mainer Joshua Chamberlain played on April 9, 1865, the day the General Lee surrendered to General Grant...the picture it paints of the challenges that faced Chamberlain and his comtemporaries, and the compromises that were made in the interest of Reconstruction, are thought provoking, at least for me.

http://www.bowdoindailysun.com/2015/04/bowdoins-patrick-rael-on-joshua-cham berlain-and-appomattox/




[Edited on 4/9/2015 by gondicar]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 4/9/2015 at 01:04 PM
Speaking of the Civil War, this documentary is amazing and should be extra good in HD...

KEN BURNS’S 1990 MASTERPIECE “THE CIVIL WAR” RE-MASTERED TO ACHIEVE HIGHEST DEFINITION FOR NEW BROADCAST ON PBS

Arlington, VA (April 9, 2015) – As the country marks the 150th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln’s assassination and the end of the Civil War, PBS announced today that THE CIVIL WAR, the award-winning film produced and directed by Ken Burns that first aired in September 1990, will be rebroadcast over five consecutive nights September 7-11, 2015 at 9:00 p.m. ET (check local listings). Lincoln – the first U.S. President to be assassinated – was shot by John Wilkes Booth on Good Friday, April 14, 1865, and died the following morning, just six days after the Confederacy surrendered to the Union Army.

The broadcast, which coincides with the 25th anniversary of the original broadcast of THE CIVIL WAR, will present for the first time a newly restored high definition version. The restoration was done by Daniel J. White and supervised by Paul Barnes (lead editor of THE CIVIL WAR) of Ken Burns’s production company, Florentine Films, in association with the George Eastman House. Funding for the restoration was provided by Bank of America, PBS and The Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

 

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  posted on 4/9/2015 at 01:26 PM
Thanks for the post gondicar. You beat me to it!

I've felt for a long time that if people who want to understand what the heart and soul is of the United States of America, they should read about the Civil War. It encompasses the good, the bad, and the indifferent of what our country was prior to the war and what is today.

Not to derail the thread but it's kind of ironic that 70th anniversary of the end of WWII is this year too. Had the country not remained united, I believe the future world wars would have ended very differently.

 

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  posted on 4/9/2015 at 01:46 PM
I will note that brother TanDan knows a lot about the War Between the States (amongst other things I am sure.)

Or the War of Northern Aggression as some call it

I bring that up because I was born and raised in Ohio, never gave the Civil War much thought beyond whatever they taught us in Jr High on the subject...then I moved to the South.

I learned real quick that the topic of that war was still alive and kicking down here.

Just bringing that up in case there are those who never come across people from this side of the country that still keep that war and stuff surrounding it very high in their daily lives.

 

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  posted on 4/10/2015 at 11:12 AM
quote:
I will note that brother TanDan knows a lot about the War Between the States (amongst other things I am sure.)

Or the War of Northern Aggression as some call it

I bring that up because I was born and raised in Ohio, never gave the Civil War much thought beyond whatever they taught us in Jr High on the subject...then I moved to the South.

I learned real quick that the topic of that war was still alive and kicking down here.

Just bringing that up in case there are those who never come across people from this side of the country that still keep that war and stuff surrounding it very high in their daily lives.


I don't get that. Do most Southerners wish they were a separate but much weaker country with slavery still intact?

 

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  posted on 4/10/2015 at 05:26 PM
quote:
I've felt for a long time that if people who want to understand what the heart and soul is of the United States of America, they should read about the Civil War. It encompasses the good, the bad, and the indifferent of what our country was prior to the war and what is today.


Your statement reminded me of this piece I read in the NY Times a couple weeks ago. It talks about how the issues facing the nation after the Civil War are the same issues facing the nation today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/opinion/sunday/why-reconstruction-matters .html

 

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  posted on 4/11/2015 at 11:49 AM
quote:
Thanks for the post gondicar. You beat me to it!

I've felt for a long time that if people who want to understand what the heart and soul is of the United States of America, they should read about the Civil War. It encompasses the good, the bad, and the indifferent of what our country was prior to the war and what is today.

Not to derail the thread but it's kind of ironic that 70th anniversary of the end of WWII is this year too. Had the country not remained united, I believe the future world wars would have ended very differently.


We might not even have dared to wage war with only half a country of men to send. The future we will live through is effected by the Civil War.

 

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  posted on 4/11/2015 at 11:57 AM
quote:
quote:
I will note that brother TanDan knows a lot about the War Between the States (amongst other things I am sure.)

Or the War of Northern Aggression as some call it

I bring that up because I was born and raised in Ohio, never gave the Civil War much thought beyond whatever they taught us in Jr High on the subject...then I moved to the South.

I learned real quick that the topic of that war was still alive and kicking down here.

Just bringing that up in case there are those who never come across people from this side of the country that still keep that war and stuff surrounding it very high in their daily lives.


I don't get that. Do most Southerners wish they were a separate but much weaker country with slavery still intact?


It would have been better to respect the beliefs of both sides, and just have had a two state country, the Industrialized North and the South as farmland. Of course with evolution, the Midwest would have been progressive and in line with the North, and California and the west coast, well they have always done their own thing anyway.

As to slavery, I don't think the Negroes should have been shackled or beaten, they should have been given the opportunity to work on the land as farmers, gatherers of cotton, etc. That should have been the compromise to stop war in the first place. If they wanted to go up north and work in a factory, the companies in the north could have paid a fee to the plantation owners to acquire them, the same way today that foreign companies subsidize foreign workers, get them visas and work permits. The Indonesian laborers that work in Saudi Arabia.

There did not have to be a Civil War. The South should have been allowed to maintain it's culture, traditions, farmlands and workers, all that was needed was tweeking the working conditions of the slaves. What has freedom gotten them? WELFARE. It was wrong to liberate them in the manner that they were freed, just set loose with no way to take care of themselves. What did anyone think the outcome of that would be?

 

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  posted on 4/11/2015 at 12:14 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I will note that brother TanDan knows a lot about the War Between the States (amongst other things I am sure.)

Or the War of Northern Aggression as some call it

I bring that up because I was born and raised in Ohio, never gave the Civil War much thought beyond whatever they taught us in Jr High on the subject...then I moved to the South.

I learned real quick that the topic of that war was still alive and kicking down here.

Just bringing that up in case there are those who never come across people from this side of the country that still keep that war and stuff surrounding it very high in their daily lives.


I don't get that. Do most Southerners wish they were a separate but much weaker country with slavery still intact?


It would have been better to respect the beliefs of both sides, and just have had a two state country, the Industrialized North and the South as farmland. Of course with evolution, the Midwest would have been progressive and in line with the North, and California and the west coast, well they have always done their own thing anyway.

As to slavery, I don't think the Negroes should have been shackled or beaten, they should have been given the opportunity to work on the land as farmers, gatherers of cotton, etc. That should have been the compromise to stop war in the first place. If they wanted to go up north and work in a factory, the companies in the north could have paid a fee to the plantation owners to acquire them, the same way today that foreign companies subsidize foreign workers, get them visas and work permits. The Indonesian laborers that work in Saudi Arabia.

There did not have to be a Civil War. The South should have been allowed to maintain it's culture, traditions, farmlands and workers, all that was needed was tweeking the working conditions of the slaves. What has freedom gotten them? WELFARE. It was wrong to liberate them in the manner that they were freed, just set loose with no way to take care of themselves. What did anyone think the outcome of that would be?




What an offensive and moronic post. Your idiocy really has no limits.

 

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  posted on 4/11/2015 at 12:24 PM
Why is it offensive? I said the Negroes should have been able to live on the plantations and have a job working the farmland, in return for working they had housing and food. They needed better housing, the shacks needed to be more suitable housing, but other than that and the shackles, how is it different from people working on farms today?

Are the illegals who harvest the produce in California slaves? We call them migrants, but they have the same status as the slaves had except for the shackles. I say they ALL need/needed better living and working conditions. The south could have continued to feed America and clothe them with cotton, what do we have now? Outsourced food and clothes from Mexico, Indonesia and other counties, their workers are modern day slaves, we have lost jobs because we outsourced farming from the south which could have been maintained. The jobs that slaves who were liberated to the North had have been outsourced overseas, how did being emancipated help them in the long run? They had a little more freedom in the short term. Long Term it did not help our country. We liberated the Negroes, and then what have central and south americans working as slaves in fast food restaurants.

Wasn't slavery about quality of life issues?

Look at the above and really ask yourself if liberating the Negroes helped them. ALL that was needed was better living and working conditions to maintain America's farmlands. YES I know they were regarded as inferior beings so they were not educated. Well what about today's welfare class? Those liberated Negroes generations later after being freed still want someone to help take care of them, provide housing, health care, education. If the war had not happened, they would have homes in the south, jobs, families, children, and would not need welfare. They would get educated and raise themselves up to whatever they want to be.





[Edited on 4/11/2015 by gina]

 

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  posted on 4/11/2015 at 01:21 PM
I was down in New Orleans recently; went to a plantation. For a few seconds my wife and I were - this is such a romantic place. Then we went "holy **** " how would we feel if someone was at Auschwitz talking about romantic old time Germany before the War.

I also read an interesting thing about RE Lee. Seems when Lincoln offered him the Generalship of the North the main reason he turned it down wasn't his pro slavery feelings (he said he'd go against slavery to save the union); just that he couldn't raise a weapon against his fellow Virginians,

As we used to sing in public school "Two soldiers on their way; one wore blue and the other one Grey."

And RIP Levon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3JaosE-gZE

 

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  posted on 4/11/2015 at 09:09 PM
quote:
Why is it offensive? I said the Negroes should have been able to live on the plantations and have a job working the farmland, in return for working they had housing and food. They needed better housing, the shacks needed to be more suitable housing, but other than that and the shackles, how is it different from people working on farms today?

Are the illegals who harvest the produce in California slaves? We call them migrants, but they have the same status as the slaves had except for the shackles. I say they ALL need/needed better living and working conditions. The south could have continued to feed America and clothe them with cotton, what do we have now? Outsourced food and clothes from Mexico, Indonesia and other counties, their workers are modern day slaves, we have lost jobs because we outsourced farming from the south which could have been maintained. The jobs that slaves who were liberated to the North had have been outsourced overseas, how did being emancipated help them in the long run? They had a little more freedom in the short term. Long Term it did not help our country. We liberated the Negroes, and then what have central and south americans working as slaves in fast food restaurants.

Wasn't slavery about quality of life issues?

Look at the above and really ask yourself if liberating the Negroes helped them. ALL that was needed was better living and working conditions to maintain America's farmlands. YES I know they were regarded as inferior beings so they were not educated. Well what about today's welfare class? Those liberated Negroes generations later after being freed still want someone to help take care of them, provide housing, health care, education. If the war had not happened, they would have homes in the south, jobs, families, children, and would not need welfare. They would get educated and raise themselves up to whatever they want to be.





[Edited on 4/11/2015 by gina]


I wouldn't worry about the south. It will always have the SEC…

 

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  posted on 4/12/2015 at 03:15 PM
quote:
On this day, April 9, 1865, General Robert E. Lee, commander of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia, surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant, commanding general of the Union Army, at Appomattox Court House in Virginia.

The 1860s were were such a difficult period in our young nation's history, and even as we continue to grapple with some of the very same issues across this great land, it is hard to really understand what life was like at the time...not just the day-to-day life of "ordinary" Americans, but how the leaders of the time were some how able put the country back together. Makes some of today's political skirmishes seem trivial by comparison. The war itself may have been won on the battlefield, but the underlying issues that had triggered the conflict in the first place had yet to be resolved. What would be the fate of the planter class? Would federal power tame the might of the states? How far would be extended the protections of national citizenship? And what rights, if any, did freedom confer to the enslaved African Americans the war had emancipated? Things that seem so obvious (or not depending on your point of view, I guess) and/or are simply taken for granted now, were anything but then.

Anyway, the article at the link below is what got me thinking about this...it is an interesting read about the role Mainer Joshua Chamberlain played on April 9, 1865, the day the General Lee surrendered to General Grant...the picture it paints of the challenges that faced Chamberlain and his comtemporaries, and the compromises that were made in the interest of Reconstruction, are thought provoking, at least for me.

http://www.bowdoindailysun.com/2015/04/bowdoins-patrick-rael-on-joshua-cham berlain-and-appomattox/

[Edited on 4/9/2015 by gondicar]


Why not go back to the source that almost all books about the War of 1861-65 use. The Official Records.
Just set aside a lot of time for reading since the Army series is over 170 volumes of about 1100 pages each.
The data files of the scanned books take up 7 DVDs. Then there's the Naval series.

 

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  posted on 4/12/2015 at 03:29 PM
Forgot to add, this month my grandfather would be 160 years old. He was born in 1855, was 10 years old when the war ended, lived through reconstruction and so we had the records from the family about the war and it's aftermath to the south Georgia region.

 

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  posted on 4/12/2015 at 03:34 PM
quote:
Are the illegals who harvest the produce in California slaves? We call them migrants, but they have the same status as the slaves had except for the shackles.


They chose to come here, that's an option slaves in the Civil War South did not have.

 

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  posted on 4/13/2015 at 11:15 AM
quote:
quote:
Are the illegals who harvest the produce in California slaves? We call them migrants, but they have the same status as the slaves had except for the shackles.


They chose to come here, that's an option slaves in the Civil War South did not have.


Are we actually discussing the merits of slavery?

 

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  posted on 4/13/2015 at 06:54 PM
quote:
quote:
Are the illegals who harvest the produce in California slaves? We call them migrants, but they have the same status as the slaves had except for the shackles.


They chose to come here, that's an option slaves in the Civil War South did not have.


That is true.

 

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  posted on 4/13/2015 at 06:58 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Are the illegals who harvest the produce in California slaves? We call them migrants, but they have the same status as the slaves had except for the shackles.


They chose to come here, that's an option slaves in the Civil War South did not have.


Are we actually discussing the merits of slavery?


Slavery has many forms, it was more obvious in the south because slavery was defined that way, people were bought, sold, put to work for long hours with little reward. We emancipated them but their quality of lives are in many cases still oppressed. Equality will never exist n a capitalist system.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 4/14/2015 at 07:11 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Are the illegals who harvest the produce in California slaves? We call them migrants, but they have the same status as the slaves had except for the shackles.


They chose to come here, that's an option slaves in the Civil War South did not have.


Are we actually discussing the merits of slavery?

Not "we", just gina.

 

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  posted on 4/14/2015 at 08:59 AM
quote:
Equality will never exist n a capitalist system.

Equality can exist in a capitalist society. But it will not exist in a society where intolerance, prejudice, and racism is prevalent.

 

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  posted on 4/16/2015 at 06:28 PM
Bob, how can equality exist in a capitalist society when the very nature of capitalism is to promote competition and some people have more than others? Employers pay their workers as little as possible to generate the most profits they can for themselves. Therefore, the people living in that society are not equal, capitalism leads to classes, some have the most, and everyone else has less all the way down the line.

What is equal? Opportunity to become a fat cat, make shady business deals and end up on top of the heap? Even opportunity is not equal, the education offered in a public school vs. a private school differs in it's worth and value to employers. Someone going to Dartmouth College has only 12-15 classmates and gets personalized attention from their instructors, someone going to a state college has 25 or more people in their classes and has to figure out things for themselves. Upon graduation the high paying jobs go to the Ivy League graduates, along with an unspoken policy that the children of graduates will be granted admission should they apply to the school. Columbia does that and so does Harvard. If you are born poor, you have a lot more to overcome than someone born with privilege in the capitalist society.



[Edited on 4/16/2015 by gina]

 

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  posted on 4/20/2015 at 11:19 AM
quote:
Bob, how can equality exist in a capitalist society when the very nature of capitalism is to promote competition and some people have more than others? Employers pay their workers as little as possible to generate the most profits they can for themselves. Therefore, the people living in that society are not equal, capitalism leads to classes, some have the most, and everyone else has less all the way down the line.

What is equal? Opportunity to become a fat cat, make shady business deals and end up on top of the heap? Even opportunity is not equal, the education offered in a public school vs. a private school differs in it's worth and value to employers. Someone going to Dartmouth College has only 12-15 classmates and gets personalized attention from their instructors, someone going to a state college has 25 or more people in their classes and has to figure out things for themselves. Upon graduation the high paying jobs go to the Ivy League graduates, along with an unspoken policy that the children of graduates will be granted admission should they apply to the school. Columbia does that and so does Harvard. If you are born poor, you have a lot more to overcome than someone born with privilege in the capitalist society.



[Edited on 4/16/2015 by gina]


Equality under the law. Equality of opportunity. That's all it means and it's all a liberal society is charged with providing

 

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