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World Class Peach





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  posted on 3/19/2013 at 08:40 AM
ask for voter ID. Of course this person is a VETERAN POLL WORKER who is supposed to be there to make sure voting is done properly. It kinda makes you think that they need to check all those people she claims she helped register to vote.
The Board of Elections is also investigating people who voted by absentee ballot that the dates shown on the vote were days before they were mailed out, people who had died before the ballots were mailed out, and in one case-someone who had moved to Florida (turns out that person had not yet registered in Fl and was eligible to do an AV).

Watch the video and count the number of times she admits to voting for other people.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/downtown/Poll-worker -accused-of-voter-fraud-in-Hamilton-County-speaks-out

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/19/2013 at 11:03 AM
Something else to check out--
http://www.scribd.com/doc/104449069/Complaint-Ohio-NVRA

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/19/2013 at 11:37 AM
quote:
ask for voter ID. Of course this person is a VETERAN POLL WORKER who is supposed to be there to make sure voting is done properly. It kinda makes you think that they need to check all those people she claims she helped register to vote.
The Board of Elections is also investigating people who voted by absentee ballot that the dates shown on the vote were days before they were mailed out, people who had died before the ballots were mailed out, and in one case-someone who had moved to Florida (turns out that person had not yet registered in Fl and was eligible to do an AV).

Watch the video and count the number of times she admits to voting for other people.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/downtown/Poll-worker -accused-of-voter-fraud-in-Hamilton-County-speaks-out



The scariest part is she doesn't think she did anything wrong. A POLL WORKER!!

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/20/2013 at 05:53 PM
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/20/2013 at 09:52 PM
How exactly would voter ID have stopped this? All of these instances seemed involve absentee ballots. They were caught because they voted both at the polls and absentee as well. Voter ID wouldn't have helped. I'm glad they caught these people and I hope they all get jail time, but only 19 questionable votes in a county doesn't seem like an epidemic to me.
 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 07:02 AM
quote:
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?


Of course there are instances of voter fraud. The question is how much. Nationwide it appears from about everything I've read that it's miniscule. Is it worth all the costs associated with implementing policies that in many cases will deny those entitled to vote that opportunity?

To directly address your statement, why is it that for the most part that it is Republican State lead Legislatures that are constantly seeking restrictive laws? It ceretainly couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the impacted potential voters usually vote for Democratic candidates? Voter ID is a parallel move used by GOP just as several states (again lead by GOP Legislators) have attempted to shift presidential elections from winner take all to outcome based upon district results. Bottom line - as the GOP continues to lose national elections, the party is looking for any & all ways to move the goal post.

What is interesting is that in states seeking voter id / suppression efforts, most of the states admit that there is little or no problem of fraud. If that is the case, why would funds be spent to implement restrictive policies when states budgets are as tight as they are?


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 11:07 AM
quote:
quote:
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?


Of course there are instances of voter fraud. The question is how much. Nationwide it appears from about everything I've read that it's miniscule. Is it worth all the costs associated with implementing policies that in many cases will deny those entitled to vote that opportunity?

To directly address your statement, why is it that for the most part that it is Republican State lead Legislatures that are constantly seeking restrictive laws? It ceretainly couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the impacted potential voters usually vote for Democratic candidates? Voter ID is a parallel move used by GOP just as several states (again lead by GOP Legislators) have attempted to shift presidential elections from winner take all to outcome based upon district results. Bottom line - as the GOP continues to lose national elections, the party is looking for any & all ways to move the goal post.

What is interesting is that in states seeking voter id / suppression efforts, most of the states admit that there is little or no problem of fraud. If that is the case, why would funds be spent to implement restrictive policies when states budgets are as tight as they are?




A better question to ask might be why do Democrats consistently oppose anti-fraud measures? Could it be because the majority of these fraudulent votes tend to go Democrat?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 11:27 AM
quote:
quote:
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?


Of course there are instances of voter fraud. The question is how much. Nationwide it appears from about everything I've read that it's miniscule.



Could be, but I bet the number of fraudulent votes cast easily outnumbers the number killed by assault weapons. Doesn't seem to faze the gun control nuts, though.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 11:32 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?


Of course there are instances of voter fraud. The question is how much. Nationwide it appears from about everything I've read that it's miniscule.



Could be, but I bet the number of fraudulent votes cast easily outnumbers the number killed by assault weapons. Doesn't seem to faze the gun control nuts, though.


Are you placing voter fraud and murder on the same level?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 11:42 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?


Of course there are instances of voter fraud. The question is how much. Nationwide it appears from about everything I've read that it's miniscule.



Could be, but I bet the number of fraudulent votes cast easily outnumbers the number killed by assault weapons. Doesn't seem to faze the gun control nuts, though.


Are you placing voter fraud and murder on the same level?


No. Just adding some context to the word "miniscule"

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 12:33 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?


Of course there are instances of voter fraud. The question is how much. Nationwide it appears from about everything I've read that it's miniscule. Is it worth all the costs associated with implementing policies that in many cases will deny those entitled to vote that opportunity?

To directly address your statement, why is it that for the most part that it is Republican State lead Legislatures that are constantly seeking restrictive laws? It ceretainly couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the impacted potential voters usually vote for Democratic candidates? Voter ID is a parallel move used by GOP just as several states (again lead by GOP Legislators) have attempted to shift presidential elections from winner take all to outcome based upon district results. Bottom line - as the GOP continues to lose national elections, the party is looking for any & all ways to move the goal post.

What is interesting is that in states seeking voter id / suppression efforts, most of the states admit that there is little or no problem of fraud. If that is the case, why would funds be spent to implement restrictive policies when states budgets are as tight as they are?




A better question to ask might be why do Democrats consistently oppose anti-fraud measures? Could it be because the majority of these fraudulent votes tend to go Democrat?


Not really - more of a counterintuitive response.

If there's a statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist. That is unless the real goal is not preventing fraud but instead preventing legitimate votes in order to bolster candidates with out of touch message and ideology. Do you really think these agendas of voter fraud are based upon good governance and controls or instead have an ulterior motive?

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 02:06 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wonder why I haven't seen any response from those who think voter fraud is a Republican myth?


Of course there are instances of voter fraud. The question is how much. Nationwide it appears from about everything I've read that it's miniscule. Is it worth all the costs associated with implementing policies that in many cases will deny those entitled to vote that opportunity?

To directly address your statement, why is it that for the most part that it is Republican State lead Legislatures that are constantly seeking restrictive laws? It ceretainly couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the impacted potential voters usually vote for Democratic candidates? Voter ID is a parallel move used by GOP just as several states (again lead by GOP Legislators) have attempted to shift presidential elections from winner take all to outcome based upon district results. Bottom line - as the GOP continues to lose national elections, the party is looking for any & all ways to move the goal post.

What is interesting is that in states seeking voter id / suppression efforts, most of the states admit that there is little or no problem of fraud. If that is the case, why would funds be spent to implement restrictive policies when states budgets are as tight as they are?




A better question to ask might be why do Democrats consistently oppose anti-fraud measures? Could it be because the majority of these fraudulent votes tend to go Democrat?


I don't think so. I think voter fraud works both ways. I also personally don't have a problem with voter ID either, although it seems to me that most voter fraud these days is not done at the voter booth anymore but rather it involves absentee ballets. (Interesting that the Republicans want you to have to show an ID to vote but think you shouldn't have to show one to buy guns with high capacity clips, but that's a different thread).

Here is an article involving GOP voter fraud, so you can see it does go both ways:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/25/gop-voter-fraud_n_1990104.html

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 04:22 PM
quote:
Is it worth all the costs associated with implementing policies that in many cases will deny those entitled to vote that opportunity?


Could you explain, in detail, how showing id would deny a registered voter his right to cast a vote.

Please, I'll be waiting with bated breath.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 05:10 PM
quote:
quote:
Is it worth all the costs associated with implementing policies that in many cases will deny those entitled to vote that opportunity?


Could you explain, in detail, how showing id would deny a registered voter his right to cast a vote.

Please, I'll be waiting with bated breath.


There are many many elderly & poor that may not have access to documentation to obtain Id's. It's not as simple a matter as going down to the local post office to buy stamps. Obtaining Id's in many states is a difficult task in itself. Do I expect you to agree with this...probably not, but that's OK.

The bigger question is if there's not a real problem, why do this? Do you believe there's a rampant fraud problem impacting elections across this country? Just look at Pennsylvania where those attempting to institute Id laws have admitted there is no real problem in that state. Below is just one of many articles on the Pennsylvania example, and this should supply you with more detail.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/pennsylvania-admits-it-n o-voter-fraud-problem/2012/07/24/gJQAHNVt6W_blog.html

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 07:16 PM
quote:
There are many many elderly & poor that may not have access to documentation to obtain Id's.


Then how do they function in most everyday aspects of life ? You have to show ID to do most things like open a bank account, cash a check , or sign up for government aid/programs, such as foodstamps AFDC for poor and Social Secutiry, Medicare, ect for the elderly.


I suppose all these elderly and poor folks without documentation walked to the polls. Ya have to have a license to drive and if you are too poor or too old to drive. I am sure you have to show some kind of ID to get a free or discounted public transportation pass from the cinty or county ?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 09:39 PM

Not really - more of a counter-intuitive response.

If there's a statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist. That is unless the real goal is not preventing fraud but instead preventing legitimate votes in order to bolster candidates with out of touch message and ideology. Do you really think these agendas of voter fraud are based upon good governance and controls or instead have an ulterior motive?


Your post doesn't make much sense. You say that even if a" statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist".

Sorry, but the problem does exits, even if there's a "insignificant number of occurrences". Voter fraud is still voter fraud. Every illegal vote cast is still an illegal vote and there have been incidents where a single vote carried an election. If they are Dem or GOP, they committed a crime, period.

A veteran poll worker that not only MONITORS THE POLLS FOR VOTER FRAUD, but also helped register voters for the election has been indited for voting at least twice and possibly six times. How likely is it that she "helped" others make sure that their "vote counted". How possible is it that she looked the other way when people she knew had voted earlier came back to vote again. Just how many more people could she have sent in absentee ballots for that didn't even know they voted.

Did you know that the PEW Charitable Trusts report that 24 million (one out of eight) voter registrations are
no longer valid, or significantly inaccurate.
1.8 million are deceased, 2.75 million are registered in two (or more) states, and here's a shocker 51 million eligible voters are not registered.

An "insignificant number of occurrences" spread out over several districts can sway how the state goes in the election. Don't say it can't because I know you've seen an entire state go for a candidate by just over 600 votes.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/21/2013 at 09:52 PM
I thought I'd add this. The poll worker has now been charged with fraudulent voting as far back as 2008.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/22/2013 at 07:55 AM
quote:
quote:
There are many many elderly & poor that may not have access to documentation to obtain Id's.


Then how do they function in most everyday aspects of life ? You have to show ID to do most things like open a bank account, cash a check , or sign up for government aid/programs, such as foodstamps AFDC for poor and Social Secutiry, Medicare, ect for the elderly.


I suppose all these elderly and poor folks without documentation walked to the polls. Ya have to have a license to drive and if you are too poor or too old to drive. I am sure you have to show some kind of ID to get a free or discounted public transportation pass from the cinty or county ?




I have seen accounts of elderly who didn't have a birth ctf in order to show residency in order to get license or voter id. It also was the case vice a versa. There is however a percentage of the population's citiizens that live on the fringes & outside what we consider the norm. There are ways to cash checks that don't involve photo ID or would allow alternate forms of ID. I believe some check cashing services may not require photo Id but would have to research this further. Also I believe there are exceptions granted at some banks. You are correct in that many services received are dependent upon Id.

The bigger question I raised is the degree or lack thereof voter fraud in this country and the need to implement policies that cost taxpayers millions of dollars. I'll stick to what I said in that it doesn't appear to be the problem that GOP Legislators have made it out to be. It is more geared at restricting votes when the party can't win elections. The Pennsylvania example referenced previously involving hundreds of thousands of voters says plenty. And this seems to be the case in other states.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/22/2013 at 08:06 AM
quote:
1. There have been no investigations of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties to not have direct personal knowledge on any such investigations or prosecutions in other states;

2. The parties are not aware of any incident of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania and do not have direct personal knowledge of in-person voter fraud elsewhere;

3. Respondents will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occured in Pennsylvania or elsewhere;

4. The sole rationale for the Photo ID law that will be introduced by respondents is that contained in Respondent's Amended answer to Interragatory 1, served June 7, 2012.

5. Respondents will not offer any evidence or argument that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absence of the Photo ID law.

6. Neither the Governor nor the Attorney General will testify at the hearing on this matter.

Signed

Patrick S. Cawley, Esq.
Senior Deputy Attorney General
Civil Litigation Section
Harrisburg, PA
Attorney for Respondents

Jennifer R. Clarke
Public Interest Law Center of Philadelphia
Philadelphia, PA
Attorney for Petitioners
http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/ApplewhiteStipulation.pdf




quote:
House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny) suggested that the House’s end game in passing the Voter ID law was to benefit the GOP politically.

“We are focused on making sure that we meet our obligations that we’ve talked about for years,” said Turzai in a speech to committee members Saturday. He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature.

“Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation – abortion facility regulations – in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

http://www.politicspa.com/turzai-voter-id-law-means-romney-can-win-pa/37153 /




In the spirit of the title of the thread, why did the Pennsylvania GOP go to such trouble to pass a law addressing an issue that didn't even exist by their own admission?


 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/22/2013 at 08:12 AM
quote:

Not really - more of a counter-intuitive response.

If there's a statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist. That is unless the real goal is not preventing fraud but instead preventing legitimate votes in order to bolster candidates with out of touch message and ideology. Do you really think these agendas of voter fraud are based upon good governance and controls or instead have an ulterior motive?


Your post doesn't make much sense. You say that even if a" statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist".

Sorry, but the problem does exits, even if there's a "insignificant number of occurrences". Voter fraud is still voter fraud. Every illegal vote cast is still an illegal vote and there have been incidents where a single vote carried an election. If they are Dem or GOP, they committed a crime, period.

A veteran poll worker that not only MONITORS THE POLLS FOR VOTER FRAUD, but also helped register voters for the election has been indited for voting at least twice and possibly six times. How likely is it that she "helped" others make sure that their "vote counted". How possible is it that she looked the other way when people she knew had voted earlier came back to vote again. Just how many more people could she have sent in absentee ballots for that didn't even know they voted.

Did you know that the PEW Charitable Trusts report that 24 million (one out of eight) voter registrations are
no longer valid, or significantly inaccurate.
1.8 million are deceased, 2.75 million are registered in two (or more) states, and here's a shocker 51 million eligible voters are not registered.

An "insignificant number of occurrences" spread out over several districts can sway how the state goes in the election. Don't say it can't because I know you've seen an entire state go for a candidate by just over 600 votes.


I stand ground on the quantification issue. You see insignficant as an absolute, and I see it as relative. We're just going to disagree on this matter. The millions & millions of dollars of taxpayer money being spent on implementing new policies could be used to serve the population in better ways. Was there enough fraud proven in any of the previous 5 or 6 presidential elections to sway the vote? This is not a hypothetical question. Pennsylvania with some of the most restrictive voter Id laws admitted that there was no real fraud problem. But that didn't stop them moving forward. Why do think that is? It's to win elections.

I think we as a nation have to be really careful not to disenfranchise voters of that right.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/22/2013 at 08:31 AM
quote:
and here's a shocker 51 million eligible voters are not registered.

This is a much bigger issue than either voter fraud or voter suppression, both of which are insignificant issues when compared to voter apathy. IMHO.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/22/2013 at 04:17 PM
quote:
quote:

Not really - more of a counter-intuitive response.

If there's a statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist. That is unless the real goal is not preventing fraud but instead preventing legitimate votes in order to bolster candidates with out of touch message and ideology. Do you really think these agendas of voter fraud are based upon good governance and controls or instead have an ulterior motive?


Your post doesn't make much sense. You say that even if a" statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist".

Sorry, but the problem does exits, even if there's a "insignificant number of occurrences". Voter fraud is still voter fraud. Every illegal vote cast is still an illegal vote and there have been incidents where a single vote carried an election. If they are Dem or GOP, they committed a crime, period.

A veteran poll worker that not only MONITORS THE POLLS FOR VOTER FRAUD, but also helped register voters for the election has been indited for voting at least twice and possibly six times. How likely is it that she "helped" others make sure that their "vote counted". How possible is it that she looked the other way when people she knew had voted earlier came back to vote again. Just how many more people could she have sent in absentee ballots for that didn't even know they voted.

Did you know that the PEW Charitable Trusts report that 24 million (one out of eight) voter registrations are
no longer valid, or significantly inaccurate.
1.8 million are deceased, 2.75 million are registered in two (or more) states, and here's a shocker 51 million eligible voters are not registered.

An "insignificant number of occurrences" spread out over several districts can sway how the state goes in the election. Don't say it can't because I know you've seen an entire state go for a candidate by just over 600 votes.


I stand ground on the quantification issue. You see insignificant as an absolute, and I see it as relative. We're just going to disagree on this matter. The millions & millions of dollars of taxpayer money being spent on implementing new policies could be used to serve the population in better ways. Was there enough fraud proven in any of the previous 5 or 6 presidential elections to sway the vote? This is not a hypothetical question. Pennsylvania with some of the most restrictive voter Id laws admitted that there was no real fraud problem. But that didn't stop them moving forward. Why do think that is? It's to win elections.

I think we as a nation have to be really careful not to disenfranchise voters of that right.


You're wrong. I see voter fraud as a crime, but obviously, you don't.
How much money was spent on "make every vote count" when Gore cried wolf? The entire election process was tied up for over a month, and the outcome was the same.
When someone votes more than once they take away the vote someone gave for the opposition. The woman in the video admitted to voting twice under her own name for Obama. That means she negated two votes that someone gave for Romney, instead of the one she was entitled to.

Again, I'm going to ask you how voter id disenfranchises voters. If you're elderly and don't have access to your original birth certificate, contact the Social Security Administration. They'll have proof of your birth or they wouldn't be paying out the checks. Check with the county health department where you were born. They can get you legal, certified, copies of your birth certificate. Of course if you're over 125 years old and born in a rural area I'm pretty sure that the local registrar knows who you are, or he can ask his parents, and get a federal dispensation.

 

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  posted on 3/22/2013 at 04:44 PM
quote:
The woman in the video admitted to voting twice under her own name for Obama. That means she negated two votes that someone gave for Romney, instead of the one she was entitled to.


Yes, and she was caught doing it, and probably (hopefully) will be doing jail time. The system worked, and most likely was caught before the vote was counted. But again I ask you - how would voter ID have worked in this case. She was a registered voter, so she would have had an ID. A voter ID would not have stopped this lady. Using this instance as a case for a voter ID requirement is like using a case of a kid shooting squirrels with a BB gun as a reason we need an assault weapons ban.

 

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  posted on 3/22/2013 at 04:50 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:

Not really - more of a counter-intuitive response.

If there's a statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist. That is unless the real goal is not preventing fraud but instead preventing legitimate votes in order to bolster candidates with out of touch message and ideology. Do you really think these agendas of voter fraud are based upon good governance and controls or instead have an ulterior motive?


Your post doesn't make much sense. You say that even if a" statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist".

Sorry, but the problem does exits, even if there's a "insignificant number of occurrences". Voter fraud is still voter fraud. Every illegal vote cast is still an illegal vote and there have been incidents where a single vote carried an election. If they are Dem or GOP, they committed a crime, period.

A veteran poll worker that not only MONITORS THE POLLS FOR VOTER FRAUD, but also helped register voters for the election has been indited for voting at least twice and possibly six times. How likely is it that she "helped" others make sure that their "vote counted". How possible is it that she looked the other way when people she knew had voted earlier came back to vote again. Just how many more people could she have sent in absentee ballots for that didn't even know they voted.

Did you know that the PEW Charitable Trusts report that 24 million (one out of eight) voter registrations are
no longer valid, or significantly inaccurate.
1.8 million are deceased, 2.75 million are registered in two (or more) states, and here's a shocker 51 million eligible voters are not registered.

An "insignificant number of occurrences" spread out over several districts can sway how the state goes in the election. Don't say it can't because I know you've seen an entire state go for a candidate by just over 600 votes.


I stand ground on the quantification issue. You see insignificant as an absolute, and I see it as relative. We're just going to disagree on this matter. The millions & millions of dollars of taxpayer money being spent on implementing new policies could be used to serve the population in better ways. Was there enough fraud proven in any of the previous 5 or 6 presidential elections to sway the vote? This is not a hypothetical question. Pennsylvania with some of the most restrictive voter Id laws admitted that there was no real fraud problem. But that didn't stop them moving forward. Why do think that is? It's to win elections.

I think we as a nation have to be really careful not to disenfranchise voters of that right.


You're wrong. I see voter fraud as a crime, but obviously, you don't.
How much money was spent on "make every vote count" when Gore cried wolf? The entire election process was tied up for over a month, and the outcome was the same.
When someone votes more than once they take away the vote someone gave for the opposition. The woman in the video admitted to voting twice under her own name for Obama. That means she negated two votes that someone gave for Romney, instead of the one she was entitled to.

Again, I'm going to ask you how voter id disenfranchises voters. If you're elderly and don't have access to your original birth certificate, contact the Social Security Administration. They'll have proof of your birth or they wouldn't be paying out the checks. Check with the county health department where you were born. They can get you legal, certified, copies of your birth certificate. Of course if you're over 125 years old and born in a rural area I'm pretty sure that the local registrar knows who you are, or he can ask his parents, and get a federal dispensation.


I'm wrong...hmmm...because you say I am. I don't think so. You don't possess ownership on "right nor wrong". Maybe your opinion & mine on this issue differ, but I wouldn't stoop to tell you you're wrong.

Nobody said voter fraud isn't a crime. It is. But the fact of the matter is that as it has been pointed out in several posts (see my previous posts & that of Bhawk which document the Pennsylvania case) is that it doesn't rise to the level of needing state legislation to control voting rights. Pennsylvania government officials implementing tight controls admit there is not a problem. Even though admission that there is not a problem, this is not good enough. There are those that insist it is, and argue on behalf of legislation. You may not, but I see it 1) as a cost benefit issue and 2) a means to impact election outcomes when the "home team' can't win.

Government data bases all over the country are not pristine - far from it. Agency systems don't always interface properly with other agency systems that should share data. Data bases that should have consistent information don't. This can easily lead to delays or denials of citizens getting documents as needed. This has caused problems - see Florida. The concept of obtaining birth ctf. may not be as simple as described.

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5451
(5450 all sites)
Registered: 4/18/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 3/22/2013 at 08:59 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Not really - more of a counter-intuitive response.

If there's a statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist. That is unless the real goal is not preventing fraud but instead preventing legitimate votes in order to bolster candidates with out of touch message and ideology. Do you really think these agendas of voter fraud are based upon good governance and controls or instead have an ulterior motive?


Your post doesn't make much sense. You say that even if a" statistically insignificant number of occurrences, why create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist".

Sorry, but the problem does exits, even if there's a "insignificant number of occurrences". Voter fraud is still voter fraud. Every illegal vote cast is still an illegal vote and there have been incidents where a single vote carried an election. If they are Dem or GOP, they committed a crime, period.

A veteran poll worker that not only MONITORS THE POLLS FOR VOTER FRAUD, but also helped register voters for the election has been indited for voting at least twice and possibly six times. How likely is it that she "helped" others make sure that their "vote counted". How possible is it that she looked the other way when people she knew had voted earlier came back to vote again. Just how many more people could she have sent in absentee ballots for that didn't even know they voted.

Did you know that the PEW Charitable Trusts report that 24 million (one out of eight) voter registrations are
no longer valid, or significantly inaccurate.
1.8 million are deceased, 2.75 million are registered in two (or more) states, and here's a shocker 51 million eligible voters are not registered.

An "insignificant number of occurrences" spread out over several districts can sway how the state goes in the election. Don't say it can't because I know you've seen an entire state go for a candidate by just over 600 votes.


I stand ground on the quantification issue. You see insignificant as an absolute, and I see it as relative. We're just going to disagree on this matter. The millions & millions of dollars of taxpayer money being spent on implementing new policies could be used to serve the population in better ways. Was there enough fraud proven in any of the previous 5 or 6 presidential elections to sway the vote? This is not a hypothetical question. Pennsylvania with some of the most restrictive voter Id laws admitted that there was no real fraud problem. But that didn't stop them moving forward. Why do think that is? It's to win elections.

I think we as a nation have to be really careful not to disenfranchise voters of that right.


You're wrong. I see voter fraud as a crime, but obviously, you don't.
How much money was spent on "make every vote count" when Gore cried wolf? The entire election process was tied up for over a month, and the outcome was the same.
When someone votes more than once they take away the vote someone gave for the opposition. The woman in the video admitted to voting twice under her own name for Obama. That means she negated two votes that someone gave for Romney, instead of the one she was entitled to.

Again, I'm going to ask you how voter id disenfranchises voters. If you're elderly and don't have access to your original birth certificate, contact the Social Security Administration. They'll have proof of your birth or they wouldn't be paying out the checks. Check with the county health department where you were born. They can get you legal, certified, copies of your birth certificate. Of course if you're over 125 years old and born in a rural area I'm pretty sure that the local registrar knows who you are, or he can ask his parents, and get a federal dispensation.


I'm wrong...hmmm...because you say I am. I don't think so. You don't possess ownership on "right nor wrong". Maybe your opinion & mine on this issue differ, but I wouldn't stoop to tell you you're wrong.

Nobody said voter fraud isn't a crime. It is. But the fact of the matter is that as it has been pointed out in several posts (see my previous posts & that of Bhawk which document the Pennsylvania case) is that it doesn't rise to the level of needing state legislation to control voting rights. Pennsylvania government officials implementing tight controls admit there is not a problem. Even though admission that there is not a problem, this is not good enough. There are those that insist it is, and argue on behalf of legislation. You may not, but I see it 1) as a cost benefit issue and 2) a means to impact election outcomes when the "home team' can't win.

Government data bases all over the country are not pristine - far from it. Agency systems don't always interface properly with other agency systems that should share data. Data bases that should have consistent information don't. This can easily lead to delays or denials of citizens getting documents as needed. This has caused problems - see Florida. The concept of obtaining birth ctf. may not be as simple as described.


Nope, you're still wrong, and wrong for why I say you're wrong.
The reason you're wrong is that I see the crime, I don't see the crime as an "insignificant". Are you saying you condone voter fraud until it gets to where it isn't an "insignificant" figure?
Why not do the same for someone who wants to purchase a firearm? Do a background check on them when they show up to vote. Make sure they haven't cast an absentee ballot, or voted in a different location. Fingerprint and run their SSN through the database, see if they are a felon or under any other classification that would place them as an ineligible voter. Since I have to do that to partake of my Constitutionally guaranteed right, don't you think that should be same for those wanting to vote? You know, make sure that they can actually cast a legal vote, once each election.

 

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