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Author: Subject: Time to repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns

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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 09:39 PM
Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 02:39 PM PST
What IS a well-regulated militia?

by DocChapFollow


The strongest argument for gun control is found in the 2nd amendment itself, which reads:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Read it again:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

What does "well regulated" mean? In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the U.S. Supreme Court stated that

the adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training.

What is the mechanism by which "proper discipline and training" is provided to members of this militia? How well disciplined was Adam Lanza? James Holmes? Jared Loughner? Cho Seung Hui?

Until this so-called militia is being adequately regulated, the purported right of the people to keep and bear arms MUST be infringed. If it is not regulated (or infringed upon), such a militia actually undermines and threatens the security of the state.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------
my note: By 2015 gun fatalities in the U.S. will exceed all traffic fatalities per year. Looks like our militia has not been regulated very well. We are not capable for many reasons so we all should lose the right. We need a citizen militia like we need more influenza strains. What a joke.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------
[Edited on 1/15/2013 by lovelead]

[Edited on 1/15/2013 by lovelead]

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 10:23 PM
I think if you want a serious dialogue, you need a more serious title.

My hope is that we move past the extreme on either end (whether it be "confiscate all guns" or "any change in laws on guns is a step towad Hitler's Germany!") and have some real talks about things like background checks and the loose nature of gun shows.

Many gun owners are in favor of some reasonable changes, and many proponents of changes in gun laws are not looking for all-out confiscation.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 10:34 PM
quote:
I think if you want a serious dialogue, you need a more serious title.

My hope is that we move past the extreme on either end (whether it be "confiscate all guns" or "any change in laws on guns is a step towad Hitler's Germany!") and have some real talks about things like background checks and the loose nature of gun shows.

Many gun owners are in favor of some reasonable changes, and many proponents of changes in gun laws are not looking for all-out confiscation.


The title is just fine with me and I thought about it before I wrote it. I am just looking for people to join a movement for repeal. Write your elected officials and tell them how you feel. There are a number of groups looking to do this.

We are past dialogue as far as I am concerned. America is incapable of being a responsibly armed country. I respect your reply and your right to it. Like the N.R.A. leadership I have no interest in compromise. Stop the slaughter. No more guns.

 

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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 10:38 PM
Scrap the 2nd Amendment first. The rest will come real easy after that.
 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 12:21 AM
quote:
I think if you want a serious dialogue, you need a more serious title.

My hope is that we move past the extreme on either end (whether it be "confiscate all guns" or "any change in laws on guns is a step towad Hitler's Germany!") and have some real talks about things like background checks and the loose nature of gun shows.

Many gun owners are in favor of some reasonable changes, and many proponents of changes in gun laws are not looking for all-out confiscation.



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By Max J. Castro Read Spanish Version
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“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Guns kill people. They lower the threshold separating rage from homicide. Absent a gun, a quarrel may result in a black eye and a few bruises. Bring a gun into the picture and the result can be much more deadly.

Given the multiple massacres of recent weeks -- and now that the Supreme Court has interpreted the Second Amendment to mean that there is an individual right to bear arms -- it’s time to pronounce this heresy: The Second Amendment is an anachronism and should be repealed.

That is an assertion that will not come out of the mouth of any politician of either party no matter the carnage inflicted by guns every day; such is the power and ferocity of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and its supporters across the nation. Most Americans would like to see tighter gun laws, but the gun loving minority is much more adamant and organized. That’s why the abolition of the Second Amendment will not happen any time soon, but then again there is the right to dream and the audacity of hope.

The “right” to bear arms is an American anomaly, another example of American exceptionalism gone wrong. It does not appear in the constitutions of other democratic states nor is it recognized as a universal human right.

In the context of 18th century America, in a world in which royal absolutism was the norm and republican government the rare exception, the amendment makes sense as a way to prevent a dictator or an oligarchy from monopolizing weapons and establishing tyranny. In twenty-first century America, the balance of power between the state and its citizens has little to do with the possession of weapons by the populace. The state has much more powerful weapons, including the ability to manipulate consent through the mass media.

In twenty-first century urban America, guns serve mostly to provide a false sense of security at the cost of countless tragedies and tens of thousands of senseless killings, many accidental. But the proliferation of guns not only contributes to a tremendous toll in the United States; they are also implicated in the ongoing drug wars in Mexico and other parts of Latin America.

Abolishing the Second Amendment doesn’t mean that no one would be allowed to possess a gun. It would mean that possession of a firearm would be not a right but a privilege given to those who have a need and the necessary training. Legally owning a gun should, at the very least, be as difficult as acquiring a driver’s license.

Restricting firearms won’t eliminate murder. People will always find means to kill. But surely it will reduce the number of homicides and suicides. There is a reason why those who commit mass murder in schools, offices, and civic centers use firearms rather than knives or axes. Guns are very efficient killing tools.

Given the political reality, the best we can hope for in the foreseeable future are small, incremental steps to regulate access to guns. But this is a very inadequate solution. Before the Supreme Court decision declaring Washington, D.C.’s gun ban unconstitutional, it seemed possible to tightly regulate guns through laws at the local and state level. No more. The Court dismissed the argument that the right to bear arms should be interpreted in the context of a well-regulated militia rather than as an individual and almost absolute right. The consequence of gun ownership as a right is, as we have seen over the last weeks and months, that any nut case easily can acquire an arsenal and undertake a killing spree.

Thus the Second Amendment is one of those issues, like torture and the death penalty, where only abolition will qualify this country for full membership in the society of civilized nations

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 12:01 PM
If we want to have a real conversation, we would not limit our discussion to guns. We would talk about how parents don't communicate with their kids, how people in general don't know who to communicate without violence, and why we are taking pills for every little thing wrong with us?

On a tangent, but I think the way the NFL has spun Ray Lewis as some hero, speaks volumes about our society. Compare Ray Lewis to Tim Tebow in terms of the treatment they have gotten from the press over the past few weeks/months/years. If I just landed from another planet, I would have thought Tim Tebow is the one who got away with murder. We also hold up people who rap about money, selling women, drug dealing and murder as heros of society. Kids want to grow up to be just like Snoop or whoever else.

We have much bigger issues that guns. We have a people problem.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 01:05 PM
X2 Jim! Very well stated.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 01:13 PM
quote:
If we want to have a real conversation, we would not limit our discussion to guns. We would talk about how parents don't communicate with their kids, how people in general don't know who to communicate without violence, and why we are taking pills for every little thing wrong with us?

On a tangent, but I think the way the NFL has spun Ray Lewis as some hero, speaks volumes about our society. Compare Ray Lewis to Tim Tebow in terms of the treatment they have gotten from the press over the past few weeks/months/years. If I just landed from another planet, I would have thought Tim Tebow is the one who got away with murder. We also hold up people who rap about money, selling women, drug dealing and murder as heros of society. Kids want to grow up to be just like Snoop or whoever else.

We have much bigger issues that guns. We have a people problem.


Very well stated.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 04:19 PM

pretty simple to make a blunderbuss, and quite an effective self defense weapon at close quarters. all a gun ban will do is force folks to get creative.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 04:50 PM
Okay

The poster brings up gun violence in America for reasoning to abolish the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all guns. Just what do they think will happen if authorities tried to do that ? Alot on unnecesary deaths (due to guns) when other options are available. Another problem besides medical and social issues is that our nations populace has become way too polorized over their particular policial affiliations than using common sense to resolve any kind of issue. Let's keep re-electing the same ol status quo in whats offered at the polls and expect anything different (sarcasm intended) it is very sad and very scary at the same time.

Like I've mentioned countless times already, focus on the "why" these tragedies occur and the "how" becomes accademic in the grand schemme of things. Afterall, it isn't normal, healthy, mostly law abiding citezens who commit these crimes.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 05:25 PM
very well said,Jim,Drumz,its easy to blame one thing or another for our problems w/o asking why.some people are so hell bent on getting rid of guns,why all of the sudden? There was over 500 homicides in Chicago last year alone,mostly from illegal guns who was screaming about the 2nd then?
 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 05:43 PM
Ronga, I think it has to do with the nature of some of the recent shootings. I know it sounds dark, but people are somewhat more hardened to the idea of shootings happening in areas with high crime rates, in troubled urban areas, of shootings happening during robberies.

Someone shooting his way into an elementary school in a placid suburb and executing a roomful of 6-year-olds hits people differently.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 05:47 PM
Again, I still argue that there are some common sense middle ground steps that can be taken, ones that plenty of gun owners support, that would make it tougher for criminals to easily get their hands on guns.

It won't eradicate crime - nothing will - and it won't end violence. However, I think the analogies to drunk driving laws are pretty good here. No one made liquor illegal. However, steps were taken to reduce the amount of drunk driving in our country. We changed laws and tightened up penalties, liquor stores have changed their policies, and schools do more to educate people about the dangers. It has worked. Drunk driving-related deaths and accidents have decreased.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 05:54 PM
There are whackos who on guns and there are whackos that own cars and there are whackos that own knives and there are whackos that own matches. Unfortunately getting rid of guns won't get rid of the whackos.

It's a complicated issue especially when most of what you hear and see are the extremists on both sides. It's an easy bet my son will be having or seeing this same kind of discussion 50 years from now.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 06:10 PM
quote:
Again, I still argue that there are some common sense middle ground steps that can be taken, ones that plenty of gun owners support, that would make it tougher for criminals to easily get their hands on guns.

It won't eradicate crime - nothing will - and it won't end violence. However, I think the analogies to drunk driving laws are pretty good here. No one made liquor illegal. However, steps were taken to reduce the amount of drunk driving in our country. We changed laws and tightened up penalties, liquor stores have changed their policies, and schools do more to educate people about the dangers. It has worked. Drunk driving-related deaths and accidents have decreased.


Education is the key. Seems way more people own guns than drink till they are unable to operate a vehicle safely. People who drink and drive show way more irresponsibility than most "legal" gun owners. I don't see how stricter laws will make it more difficult for criminals to aquire firearms. Just more "expensive". They have countless laws regarding drugs and we all know how that turned out. The majority of gun violence is done by criminals and a law prohibiting or making obtaining firearms more diifficult isn't gonna change that mindset. I also believe that politicians have their hands in certain people's pockets regarding weapons sales and trafficking. Just like with drugs. Untill our elected offiicials take and make a serious stand against abuses than whats the point.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 06:56 PM
Again well said Jim S.Until we get a handle on enforcement of existing laws no amount of new ones will matter.Look at drugs,hows that working?We already have strict gun laws in NY and still have some high per capita rates,
just not a fan of gov't taking anyone's rights be it guns, abortion,or 32 oz sodas

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 07:45 PM
Time to repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns

Sounds an awful lot like a Police state to me.....

No thank you.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 08:23 PM
quote:

pretty simple to make a blunderbuss, and quite an effective self defense weapon at close quarters. all a gun ban will do is force folks to get creative.


Yeah like fill up those red plastic 5 gallon gas cans, save their glass bottles and when the Blackwater militias come to your house, get creative! (send Little Johnny up in the attic push out that exhaust vent and toss a few!)

[Edited on 1/16/2013 by gina]

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 11:14 PM
quote:
Time to repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns

Sounds an awful lot like a Police state to me.....

No thank you.


Sounds like a civilized society like many other countries around the world. Stop with the 'police state' fear mongering non-sense. This is not Germany in 1939.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 11:21 PM
quote:
pretty simple to make a blunderbuss, and quite an effective self defense weapon at close quarters. all a gun ban will do is force folks to get creative.



To do what? Take on a tyranical government with the firepower only a super power can afford. Give your head a shake.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 01:02 AM
quote:
quote:
Time to repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns

Sounds an awful lot like a Police state to me.....

No thank you.


Sounds like a civilized society like many other countries around the world. Stop with the 'police state' fear mongering non-sense. This is not Germany in 1939.



Did you huff model glue as a teenager or what?

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 09:59 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Time to repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns

Sounds an awful lot like a Police state to me.....

No thank you.


Sounds like a civilized society like many other countries around the world. Stop with the 'police state' fear mongering non-sense. This is not Germany in 1939.



Did you huff model glue as a teenager or what?


No I did not take drugs.
Do you always make personal attacks when you disagree with someone's opinion? Try voicing your opinion on the subject and adding to the debate. You might actually be respected.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 12:58 PM
Dont know and hope to keep it that way due to your ignorant opinions.
What the obamaination is trying to do with my gun rights is a travesty.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 04:57 PM
quote:
Dont know and hope to keep it that way due to your ignorant opinions.
What the obamaination is trying to do with my gun rights is a travesty.



EXACTLY!
I might add have you heard anything about 30,000 drones nationwide by the year 2018?And no this is not right wing conspiracy theory.IT IS FACT!Check into it.And did you hear Obama when he first became prez talking about we need a NATIONAL CITIZEN POLICE FORCE as big and powerful as the military?THIS IS FACT AS WELL! And no matter how anyone here wants to spin it.IT IS WHAT IT IS!
I know there are some that'll clean Obama's butt after he craps till the end of time.They are in love with the guy no matter what.So before ya start slinging all this fairy land fantasy sh*t about takin all the guns & living in a state of bliss.I suggest ya do your homework.
And one more note.For you to say there is no threat of a police state.I once more might ask.DID YOU HUFF MODEL GLUE AS A TEENAGER?Cause ya damn sure ain't thinkin straight.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 05:01 PM
quote:
quote:
Time to repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns

Sounds an awful lot like a Police state to me.....

No thank you.


Sounds like a civilized society like many other countries around the world. Stop with the 'police state' fear mongering non-sense. This is not Germany in 1939.


Nonsense?....The USA in 1941. Ask a surviving American CITIZEN of Japanese ancestry how that worked out.

 

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