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Author: Subject: which one is the assault weapon?

World Class Peach





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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 09:43 AM
Ok here is a chance to choose which of these three guns is the assault weapon, using what you understand from reading and the media ...



 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 09:54 AM
I thought that determination was supposed to be based on function, not looks?

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 11:18 AM
quote:
I thought that determination was supposed to be based on function, not looks?

I believe that is exactly Ryde's point. For some reason the term "assault weapon" has come to mean any gun that looks scary. That term actually has no meaning. To accurately describe a weapon the term single-shot, semi-automatic, or automatic should be used, along with some description of caliber and/or magazine capacity to further define it. Saying "assault weapon" is like saying "boogeyman". Sounds scary but doesn't mean a thing.

 

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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 11:29 AM
quote:
I thought that determination was supposed to be based on function, not looks?


On that we can agree it should indeed be based on fuction not what it looks like BUT the bottom two would be classed as assault weapons because they have pistol grip, and sliding or folding stocks, and detachable magazines with over 10 capacity and a flash hider BUT!!!!! they are all the same weapon 22's the top one is a stock ruger 10/22 the middle is the same gun with different furniture and the bottom one is a smith and wesson AR 22 all shoot the same bullet 22 cal. and all are semi automatic yet 2 of them would be banned yet they all do exactly the same thing in the same manner! this is what gun owners are pissed off about, people are making laws that do not know **** about guns!

having a pistol grip,or folding stock, or a flash hider does not mean nothing it is all looks has nothing to do with fuction of the bullet coming out of the barrel.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 11:57 AM

I'm not sure why it is relevant, but I'll play based on my limited knowledge. The two on top appear to be semi-automatic, with the one in the middle having a banana clip allowing for fewer manual reloads in a given time period. If there is a fully automatic weapon among them, I'd guess the one on the bottom. is this your point? That it looks the scariest? But I do understand the point that Bob explained. All guns can be "assault" weapons, of course. But the unhelpful characterization of these guns doesn't change the fact that the technology is beyond what is healthy in a civil public domain in 2013. Yes, there will always be mentally ill people, there will always be bad intentions and rage, and there always be those that act on them. But if there are laws in place to help mitigate the opportunities for those that act on deadly intentions, in advance or in a rage, or if there are laws in place that make it more difficult or reduce one's likelihood to carry out those intentions on a large number of people b/f others can intervene, then let's get them in place. If responsible gun owners can still own guns and maintain their 2nd amendment rights, why not? If your argument is that the laws already exist, or that they won't work, then let's get them written better, let's get them enforced better. Let's at least try; worst case scenario, more inconvenience for lawful gun owners and just as much gun violence?? It's worth a try. And maybe the gun violence would have gotten worse if we didn't, so even no apparent improvement in the statistics in 20 years, would be an improvement in reality. What's the downside?

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 12:52 PM
quote:
quote:
I thought that determination was supposed to be based on function, not looks?

I believe that is exactly Ryde's point. For some reason the term "assault weapon" has come to mean any gun that looks scary. That term actually has no meaning. To accurately describe a weapon the term single-shot, semi-automatic, or automatic should be used, along with some description of caliber and/or magazine capacity to further define it. Saying "assault weapon" is like saying "boogeyman". Sounds scary but doesn't mean a thing.

Well said Bob.

Somewhat lost in most of the public discussion is any consideration of caliber. All the guns shown here shoot a relatively small round; essentially a .22 caliber. The one on the bottom shoots a .223 at much higher velocity than the two above, but it's still a relatively small round. Most .223 rounds are 55 grain in weight, though they can go up to the high 70's.

Common 9mm loads are twice that size and more (124 & 147 grain). 45 ACP loads are normally more than 4x the size (230 grain). The full-sized 9mm handgun, which outnumber the "assault" rifles by probably 50:1, have magazines in the high teens (17, 19). 45's vary more in capacity depending upon design, but can get into the low teens. The point is that most handguns carry a load that can inflict much more damage than these "assault" rifles which so many want to focus on.

The issue that keeps getting coming to the surface is the high-capacity magazines of the AR/AK type rifles, like the one in the lower picture. These typically can hold up to 30 rounds. Some have made 60, 90, and 100 round magazines, but these are generally gimmicky devices with low reliability (I've seen similar gimmick huge magazine options for some handguns too).

If some madman is planning a spree killing, they can get easily just as much destructive firepower with handguns as they do with a rifle. More if they carry two. And if they practice magazine changes, the issue of 10, 15, or 30 rounds is a minor one if they face no opposition. If someone is prepared, a mag change should be no more than 3-4 seconds max.

None of this tries to justify anything about what these idiots have done. However, when you see so much focused on the "assault" style rifle, perspective should be considered. They are not used in anything near the majority of gun-related murders. They are not vastly more destructive than handguns (in many ways less so). And someone who develops a plan to commit mass murder can achieve their aim, with equal or greater firepower, just as easily with handguns as with these rifles.

If the pubic allows this to become about one type of weapon - the assault rifle - instead of the people problem it really is, then all this effort is just a waste of time.

 

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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 02:08 PM
quote:
all are semi automatic yet 2 of them would be banned yet they all do exactly the same thing in the same manner!

I can tell by looking that this isn't exactly true...the two on the bottom have much bigger magazines than the one on the top (plus the one in the middle has a scope and barrel mounted bipod and grip which enhances, or at least changes, its functionality to some degree), so they may all do the same thing but they clearly don't all operate in exactly the same manner, at least as equipped as shown above. Not these details matter too much in terms of your overall point, but since we have been debating nuances of language and what words mean in certain contexts, I just point it out in the interest of accuracy.

quote:
this is what gun owners are pissed off about, people are making laws that do not know **** about guns!

I agree that lawmakers responsible for making these laws should be more educated about guns in general (FWIW many are pretty well educated about them, and not just the NRA-backed ones either). The NRA and other gun advocate groups should see this as an opportunity.

The old assault weapons ban was criticized for (among other things) being too vague and based too much on looks. If a new ban moves forward and actually gets as far as a vote, my hope would be that it would be much more specific and based on function rather than form.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 03:37 PM
quote:
quote:
all are semi automatic yet 2 of them would be banned yet they all do exactly the same thing in the same manner!

I can tell by looking that this isn't exactly true...the two on the bottom have much bigger magazines than the one on the top (plus the one in the middle has a scope and barrel mounted bipod and grip which enhances, or at least changes, its functionality to some degree), so they may all do the same thing but they clearly don't all operate in exactly the same manner, at least as equipped as shown above.

The Ruger 10/22 in the top picture has - I believe - the same magazine options as the other two. It just doesn't have a magazine attached in that picture. Historically they have come with 10-round mags, but many accessory manufacturers have made larger ones for years. Recently, Ruger has finally come out with their own higher capacity magazine for the 10/22.

Since most mass murders with rifles have occurred in confined places at relatively close range (+/- 100 ft), the concept of scopes or stability devices as an aid is pretty much a non-issue. Though perhaps an un-magnified red dot sight would be usable in such circumstances. Unless someone wants to re-create Whitman's shootings from the UT tower, big scopes would probably be more useless than not.

BTW - the Ruger 10/22 may be the single best rifle one could buy for all-round purposes. Easy to shoot, cheap ammo, and tons of accessories.

 

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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 04:29 PM
I've got the target version of the 10/22 and it's a terrific rifle to shoot. i have some 30 round mags for it just like I have for my mini-14 and AR-15, but the 10/22 can shoot all day for $10. I rarely ever take the other two out of my gunsafe but I feel better knowing that they are there.
 

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  posted on 1/14/2013 at 07:42 PM
FOLKS THEY ARE ALL 22LR GUNS THERE IS NO 223 OR 5.56 HERE THEY ARE ALL SEMI AUTO 22'S the ruger has been made since 1964 almost 50 years and now it is a assault weapon? the idiots making these laws have no clue what the hell they are talking about.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 09:38 AM
quote:
FOLKS THEY ARE ALL 22LR GUNS THERE IS NO 223 OR 5.56 HERE THEY ARE ALL SEMI AUTO 22'S the ruger has been made since 1964 almost 50 years and now it is a assault weapon? the idiots making these laws have no clue what the hell they are talking about.


See today's news about the bullsh!t gun legislation NY passed in the middle of the night yesterday.

Totally clueless but all the soccer moms feel better today.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 10:06 AM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
FOLKS THEY ARE ALL 22LR GUNS THERE IS NO 223 OR 5.56 HERE THEY ARE ALL SEMI AUTO 22'S the ruger has been made since 1964 almost 50 years and now it is a assault weapon? the idiots making these laws have no clue what the hell they are talking about.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



See today's news about the bullsh!t gun legislation NY passed in the middle of the night yesterday.

Totally clueless but all the soccer moms feel better today.


ďItís not about people who use a shotgun to hunt. Itís about high-capacity magazines, and thatís what the bill addresses,Ē Gov. Cuomo said.

If I hear one more person mention hunting, I might very well vomit. Its not about hunting; never has been, never will be. When people twist the 2nd Amendment to make it about hunting, they effectively cut all non-hunters out of the equation, which lessens the size of the opposition, by cutting out those who own guns for other purposes (self-defense). It also gives them grounds to limit guns and gun-types based on hunting applications. Dumb ass Cuomo doesn't realize that a shotgun may be the best "assault weapon" you can own for home protection.



 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 01:16 PM
This is why it is so hard to even have a discussion about this. He didn't say anything about hunting and the 2nd amendment, but that's right where you jumped.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 02:01 PM
quote:
This is why it is so hard to even have a discussion about this. He didn't say anything about hunting and the 2nd amendment, but that's right where you jumped.


He did in his state of the state speech last week saying no one needs an "assault weapon" to kill a deer.

Douche bag doesn't know that an AR is the perfect rifle for hunting coyotes and feral pigs, also good for other varmints like woodchucks and rabbits.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2013 at 02:17 PM

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 01:12 AM
So just how many of ya'll would turn over your AR-15,etc =(IF)= one day an all out ban on them were declared.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 01:00 PM
This 'assult weapon' issue is being presented by ignorant persons with the intent to disarm and limit the freedoms of American citizens. It is nothing more than another liberal/communist attack on the rights, liberty, and freedoms of law abiding American citizens

 

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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 08:59 PM
another thing people fail to realize is .. that every gun out there today was at one time a military weapon , as they were fazed out and replaced with the next better gun the civilians got to buy the old ones and the AR platform is the next hunting rifle it is easy to work on , impervious to weather, you can drop it in the mud and it will still work, so what is not to like most all of this uproar is about how it looks.... as far as magazines if they make 10 rounders the norm then people will just reload more it will solve nothing NOTHING!

 

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  posted on 1/16/2013 at 09:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
FOLKS THEY ARE ALL 22LR GUNS THERE IS NO 223 OR 5.56 HERE THEY ARE ALL SEMI AUTO 22'S the ruger has been made since 1964 almost 50 years and now it is a assault weapon? the idiots making these laws have no clue what the hell they are talking about.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



See today's news about the bullsh!t gun legislation NY passed in the middle of the night yesterday.

Totally clueless but all the soccer moms feel better today.


ďItís not about people who use a shotgun to hunt. Itís about high-capacity magazines, and thatís what the bill addresses,Ē Gov. Cuomo said.

If I hear one more person mention hunting, I might very well vomit. Its not about hunting; never has been, never will be. When people twist the 2nd Amendment to make it about hunting, they effectively cut all non-hunters out of the equation, which lessens the size of the opposition, by cutting out those who own guns for other purposes (self-defense). It also gives them grounds to limit guns and gun-types based on hunting applications. Dumb ass Cuomo doesn't realize that a shotgun may be the best "assault weapon" you can own for home protection.





And you don't need double O buck to stop someone. It is not necessary to cut someone in half to stop them. A nice 4 inch hole in the gut will stop them!

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2013 at 12:47 PM
quote:
quote:
This is why it is so hard to even have a discussion about this. He didn't say anything about hunting and the 2nd amendment, but that's right where you jumped.


He did in his state of the state speech last week saying no one needs an "assault weapon" to kill a deer.

Douche bag doesn't know that an AR is the perfect rifle for hunting coyotes and feral pigs, also good for other varmints like woodchucks and rabbits and nefarious characters in the NFL thread.



 

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  posted on 1/18/2013 at 01:59 PM
you can take my catapult when you pry it from my cold dead fingers


 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2013 at 02:40 PM
A semi-automatic for hunting deer? That just doesn't sound very sporting to me.

On my one and only deer hunting trip with my dad, he left me in a tree stand with a Winchester 30/30. As I recall, you could load several bullets in the chamber, but you had to use the cocking handle/lever for each new round. Well, I saw a deer - missed with the first shot so I cocked and fired about three more.

When my dad and several of his buds showed up (expecting to find me with a deer) - they were a little perturbed that I had created so much noise and fired so many bullets. I'll never forget dad's words: "if you can't drop that buck with one shot, you should stay the hell out of the woods!".

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2013 at 03:01 PM
agreed.

hunting is a fairly primitive thing to do, been going on since there's been man and animals.

to me, and I'm being slightly facetious, use a knife or a spear or a rock or a slingshot.

that's hunting.

I never understood the "sport" in sitting in a tree after you've put out deer scent and deer licks and waiting for a deer to walk by. Chase him, see how that works.

or those ridiculous duck and turkey calls. Guy gets all camouflaged, brings his thermos of hot chocolate, hides behind a tree and blows that stupid thing 'til a turkey walks by and blows it away with a shotgun.

nice job.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/18/2013 at 03:03 PM
quote:
or those ridiculous duck and turkey calls. Guy gets all camouflaged, brings his thermos of hot chocolate, hides behind a tree and blows that stupid thing 'til a turkey walks by and blows it away with a shotgun.


Hot chocolate?? Not any of the hunters I know.

 

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  posted on 1/19/2013 at 12:39 AM
quote:
quote:
or those ridiculous duck and turkey calls. Guy gets all camouflaged, brings his thermos of hot chocolate, hides behind a tree and blows that stupid thing 'til a turkey walks by and blows it away with a shotgun.


Hot chocolate?? Not any of the hunters I know.


It might be warm as it comes out of the thermos, it might even have some chocolate in it, but you will not find anyone sitting in a turkey blind, or deer stand, drinking it. Hell, I don't know of any hunters that would carry anything other than water to their stand or blind. Well, maybe a few duck hunters.

 

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