Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2    3    4  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Don't shoot the messenger...

A Peach Supreme





Posts: 2772
(2772 all sites)
Registered: 10/2/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:04 AM
1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

3. Glock: The original point and click interface.

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

8. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.

9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

10. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and liberals.

15. Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety.

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

17. 911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

19. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer.

20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

22. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

23. Enforce the "gun control laws" we have, don't make more.

24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

26. "...A government of the people, by the people, for the people..."

 

____________________
Y'all are brutalizin' me!

 
Replies:

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3142
(3143 all sites)
Registered: 11/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:06 AM
If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

One might say that the respective outcomes are just a tad bit different.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29948
(30044 all sites)
Registered: 1/26/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:17 AM
Watching the debate last night and they asked Edwards about this.

He said the right to bear arms is garrenteed by the constitution.
But depending on where you live different control might be
needed. NYC and Montana have different needs.

Basically you have a right to bear arms, but
you don't need a AK-47 to hunt deer.

It was an assault rifle that was used to kill all those
folks in DC during the sniper spree last year.

A shotgun is a good home defense weapon.
it will stop the intruder and summon the police
with the noise. Don't need real accurate aim.

I have a friend that works as a bartender and he has
a permit for a concealed weapon because he
closes and carries large sums of money to deposit
at the band on his way home. That is appropriate.

But Assault weapons and armor peircing rounds.
I hope the World has not come to that necessity.

Peace
John

[Edited on 1/23/2004 by johnwott]

 

____________________
People Can you Feel It?

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 19427
(20205 all sites)
Registered: 3/13/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:21 AM
quote:
He said the right to bear arms is garrenteed by the constitution


what about the right to arm bears?

 

____________________
you know there just ain't no telling

what a satisfied girl will do.

 
E-Mail User

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3142
(3143 all sites)
Registered: 11/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:26 AM
Well said JohnWott.
 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2772
(2772 all sites)
Registered: 10/2/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:41 AM
I totally agree with that. Makes perfect sense.

Check this out - I think I'm doing this next weekend.

http://www.site59.com/bng/index.html?in_hpclick=beefnguns

[Edited on 1/23/2004 by RonnieDobbs]

 

____________________
Y'all are brutalizin' me!

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6443
(8688 all sites)
Registered: 12/12/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:52 AM
I'm not big into guns, but that looks like fun.

 

____________________
This one goes to eleven...

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 19963
(20161 all sites)
Registered: 11/28/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 11:53 AM
Now that would be something to do in our spare time at the Beacon
 
E-Mail User

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2772
(2772 all sites)
Registered: 10/2/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 01:14 PM
quote:
I'm not big into guns, but that looks like fun.




I've never even actually shot a gun, but I'm always open to new experiences. This seems like a fun way to go about it.

 

____________________
Y'all are brutalizin' me!

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1136
(1157 all sites)
Registered: 8/31/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 02:21 PM
Great list there Ronnie. I would only change one word in the whole list.
quote:
23. Enforce the "gun control laws" we have, don't make more.
I'd change "Enforce" to "Repeal" and the list would be perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Every time this subject comes up (Which I'm glad it did again, thanks Ronnie) someone says something along the lines of "You don't need an assault weapon to hunt deer." While the statement is basically true, it totally ignores the fact that hunting had nothing to do with the formulation of the 2nd Amendment. You don't need a cannon to hunt deer either, but back in the day of the Founders if someone wanted one, they were legally entitled to have one if they could afford it. If someone could afford to own a Gatling gun in the mid 1800's, their right to do so was protected by the 2nd Amendment. Either of those two examples could be analagous to today's assault rifles. What's changed? The Constitution? No. What's changed in my view is that there aren't enough people left in this country like Ronnie, who has never even fired a gun but still obvioulsy recognizes his right to own and bear one against criminals and/or a government that threatens his safety or way of life.

Too many people are selective about the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments that they support or are willing to fight for. There's an immediate and deafening uproar if the 1st, 4th or 5th Amendments are abridged, but 20,000 laws of gun control is fine and dandy, even if it does go directly against what the Founders intended for the 2nd Amendment.

I remember one time maybe a year or so ago when someone around here opined that he thought the derivitive of the word "liberal" was liberty and the derivitive of the word "conservative" was to conserve and that he didn't see any liberty or conservation in either of the two major parties. I do see such though. I see liberals attempting to liberate themselves, and in the process, all of us, from the constraints of the original intenet of the Constitution, and I see *true* conservatives trying to conserve that original intent. And before anyone jumps up to say, "Yeah, well Bush & Co. sure aren't conserving it with the Patriot Act!", forget about it. Bush is not a *true* conservative.

Anyone care to explain why the 1st Amendment should be more vociferously protected than the 2nd? This ought to be interesting.

Tom S.

 

____________________
"Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves." Eric Hoffer

 
E-Mail User

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29948
(30044 all sites)
Registered: 1/26/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 02:45 PM
quote:


Every time this subject comes up (Which I'm glad it did again, thanks Ronnie) someone says something along the lines of "You don't need an assault weapon to hunt deer." While the statement is basically true, it totally ignores the fact that hunting had nothing to do with the formulation of the 2nd Amendment. You don't need a cannon to hunt deer either, but back in the day of the Founders if someone wanted one, they were legally entitled to have one if they could afford it. If someone could afford to own a Gatling gun in the mid 1800's, their right to do so was protected by the 2nd Amendment. Either of those two examples could be analagous to today's assault rifles. What's changed? The Constitution?


society has changed. As has the constitution.

We are not the Frontier society we were in 1787.

we have State and local Police forces now that were missing
then for our protection.

You don't need an AK-47 unless you are thinking of armed insurrection.

If you are, good luck. You'll need it.

Peace
John


[Edited on 1/23/2004 by johnwott]

 

____________________
People Can you Feel It?

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3142
(3143 all sites)
Registered: 11/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 03:17 PM
Anyone care to explain why the 1st Amendment should be more vociferously protected than the 2nd?

The 2nd Amendment speaks of a well regulated milita. We have progressed from the Minutemen to the National Guard. It would be different if we had a culture akin to Switzerland. Every male is in the demobilized militia until they are in their 40s. Thus they keep their military class weaponry in their homes so as to mobilize quickly. Incidents are nearly unheard of. I cannot see the residents of South Central, the Bronx or even Beverly Hills for that matter possessing this same sense of discipline and restraint.

As JohnWott says, times change. The Constitution is a brilliant document, the oldest one still in use. But it was written in a time when most people lived on farms, it was ok to enslave a man, and women could not vote. I do not think the Founding Fathers were quite anticipating 13 year olds toting Streetsweepers in the projects.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 19467
(19481 all sites)
Registered: 6/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 03:44 PM
quote:
we have State and local Police forces now that were missing
then for our protection.


You are accosted on the street, ripped off, beaten, and raped. What the hell does the cops have to do with that before and during the event?

quote:
We are not the Frontier society we were in 1787.


What sweet little neighborhood do you live in?? There are neighborhoods right now that have a higher per capita gun shooting rate than Dodge City at its worst in the Old West.

quote:
You don't need an AK-47 unless you are thinking of armed insurrection.


Never trust a government that would disarm its people. "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."

When the communist totaliotarian Soviet Government sent troops into the Baltic States of Estonia etc in 1989 to take over three countries that were never a part of Russia except by force, one of the first things that Gorbachev did was demand that the population turn in their weapons immediately.

All this talk about Ashcroft and "big Brother" and oppressive government, but if the US government does ever get over-powering and out of hand those of you that are unarmed will have no choice but to bend over and take it up the a$$ because you will have no options.

Linnie, good one.

DH


 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 19467
(19481 all sites)
Registered: 6/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 03:47 PM
quote:
I do not think the Founding Fathers were quite anticipating 13 year olds toting Streetsweepers in the projects.


In the old west 13 year olds were encouraged to learn how to fire and use guns, especially the Mormons. Kids in the country do the same right now outside of the cities. Why aren't they shooting each other like crazy?

Oh my goodness, please don't bring up the personal responsibility thingy.

D

 

____________________

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1136
(1157 all sites)
Registered: 8/31/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 04:21 PM
quote:
society has changed. As has the constitution.
With all due respect John, this is not an answer. The Consitution is what defines this society. And how has the Constitution changed anyway? More amendments? Did the 2nd Amendment get repealed and I just missed it? And I'd be real interested to see who can describe what any amendment was intended to do. Were they intended to give unlimited power to the federal government? That kind of thing. Please be specific as to the extent to which the Constitution either granted or limited the powers of the fed, whichever it did. And if you get that right, then juxtapose that against your stand on the 2nd Amendment. If you understand the document you will be easily tripped up every time if you believe that gun control is Constitutional according to the Founder's interpretations. Since they wrote it, I prefer to go by their interpretations, not a bunch of do-gooders who see nothing wrong with weakening it.

Tom S.

 

____________________
"Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves." Eric Hoffer

 
E-Mail User

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3142
(3143 all sites)
Registered: 11/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 04:36 PM
Kids in the country do the same right now outside of the cities. Why aren't they shooting each other like crazy?

They do. Jonesboro and Columbine.

Furthermore, you are proving John and I's point. We are no longer a rural, agrarian country. We are are an ubanized/surburbanized nation of people packed a lot closer together than were those back in the day.

Nobody is suggesting a total prohibition on all firearms. But people should not have access to AK-47s and M-16s. If you want to defend your home, use a shotgun.

I am all for personal responsibility. But the fact of the matter is most people are not responsible enough to own an AK.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 19467
(19481 all sites)
Registered: 6/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 04:45 PM
Jonesboro and Columbine, two cases, I could have sworn those were suburban schools. How you ever been out in the country? Ever??

More people are killed by knives and baseball bats then assault rifles. Let's ban those as well. I could make a pipe bomb with a large box of stick matches. Molotov with gasoline.


Once again, a news flash, say it with me, guns are inanimate objects. They do not pick themselves up and take themselves out into the street and shoot anything. Personal responsibility, God Forbid!


DH

 

____________________

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3142
(3143 all sites)
Registered: 11/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 05:16 PM
Jonesboro and Columbine, two cases, I could have sworn those were suburban schools. How you ever been out in the country? Ever??

I repeat: The vast majority of people do not live in the country.

More people are killed by knives and baseball bats then assault rifles. Let's ban those as well.

I'd like to see some stats to back that up. One has a much better chance of avoiding or surviving a fight with a knife or bat than with a gun.


I could make a pipe bomb with a large box of stick matches. Molotov with gasoline


Which explains the numerous caes in the news of people being killed and banks being robbed with pipe bombs and molotov cocktails.




[Edited on 1/23/2004 by KnownRider]

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29948
(30044 all sites)
Registered: 1/26/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 05:34 PM
The constitution does change, By amendments and by supreme court intrepretations of it.
Part of its beauty is its ability to change with the times.

Our 4th amendment rights have been weakened by court ruling and idiotic laws
like the patriot act. Those that want their assault rifles seem
less concerned about that.

Society is defined by more than just the constitution.

The Constitution only frames the federal government and federal law.

States have the right to make their own laws (including gun control laws)
If they don't infringe on constitutional law.

If ya don't like a state law, then hire a lawyer and take it to the Court.

Personally I think the Federal government is too strong and overbearing.
I would like to see more authority shifted back to the states.

Peace
John

 

____________________
People Can you Feel It?

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29948
(30044 all sites)
Registered: 1/26/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 05:39 PM
quote:


What sweet little neighborhood do you live in?? There are neighborhoods right now that have a higher per capita gun shooting rate than Dodge City at its worst in the Old West.




So how is this an arguement against gun control?

I'd say we need stronger control.

I live in DC. We need to get these guns off the street.

Or would you just arm everyone and let the meanest and most ruthless
control the streets?

I don't want to live in THAT town.

Peace
John

 

____________________
People Can you Feel It?

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 19467
(19481 all sites)
Registered: 6/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 05:44 PM
http://billstclair.com/ferran/batviolence.html

 

____________________

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8042
(8056 all sites)
Registered: 1/20/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 07:45 PM
I don't like the idea that crazy psychopaths are able to acquire guns. Why not do a mental health check, as well as age and past criminal record to give out a gun permit.
I totally agree with John about the assault rifles No need for them for any reason whatsoever unless you're a druglord or gangster trying to take over an area of town. I would hate to be a law abiding citizen living under the repression of some gang leader because it's his territory.

 

____________________
"The two most important things in life are to find God and Love - everything else can wait"-George Harrison
"Whatever happiness is in the world has arisen from a wish for the welfare of others; whatever misery there is has arisen from indulging self"

 
E-Mail User

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29713
(29846 all sites)
Registered: 12/13/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 07:57 PM
I agree with Tom S. Repeal all the gun laws. Every man, woman and child for themselves....probably take less than a generation before our rising population problems will be over...

 

____________________
Your neighborhood brewery and tap house - yes! we're now open! Like us on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/FranklinStreetBrewing

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20685
(20770 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 09:34 PM
quote:
I agree with Tom S. Repeal all the gun laws. Every man, woman and child for themselves....probably take less than a generation before our rising population problems will be over...



Surely there's some kind of reasonable line between restrictive and unnecessary gun laws and the problems we've got right now. Is that an absurd proposition? The Constitution says people have a right to bear arms; is it crazy to suggest that allowing people to have guns but not certain kinds violates that? I don't know. At the moment, I see no good reason to support gun licenses, but conservatives don't generally seem to like it. I've seen Derek and others argue that letting people use guns will teach them to use them responsibly. Wouldn't that be a step in the right direction?

quote:
Never trust a government that would disarm its people.

Interesting, if (as usual) it strikes me as a bit paranoid. Of course, several of the reasons in Ronnie's post struck me as paranoid too. But I don't think this really applies here since the CITIZENS are the ones pushing for the disarming.

[Edited on 1/24/2004 by Marley]

 

____________________
http://www.tylersmusicroom.org

 
E-Mail User

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2221
(2232 all sites)
Registered: 2/3/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/23/2004 at 10:36 PM
quote:
I agree with Tom S. Repeal all the gun laws. Every man, woman and child for themselves....probably take less than a generation before our rising population problems will be over...

It would be like Battle Royale but on a much larger scale.

[Edited on 1/24/2004 by The_Newt]

 

____________________
Language is a virus from outer space.

 
E-Mail User
<<  1    2    3    4  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software

Privacy | Terms of Service | Report Infringement | Personal Data Management | Contact Us
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com