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Author: Subject: Why did ABB do Mtn Jam?

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/19/2014 at 02:37 PM
Here's the Herbie Mann "There Is a Mountain." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmpYaTOoc-o

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/19/2014 at 03:04 PM
I did ask Alan Paul on Twitter. He said he presumed the ABB got the idea from Herbie Mann, but that nobody he interviewed had an answer on how Mountain Jam came to be.

 

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  posted on 3/19/2014 at 03:18 PM
Here's Herbie's soporific version of IMOER:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR9FZxiA-x0


 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/19/2014 at 03:40 PM
The GD just hinted at the theme of "There Is A Mountain", the ABB pretty much played through Donovan's entire song structure before launching into their "jam" portion and building on the various sections. I think that's where the crux lies.


Another informative post from Captain Obvious!

[Edited on 3/19/2014 by chiliD]

 
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Peach Bud



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  posted on 3/19/2014 at 08:22 PM
quote:
I did ask Alan Paul on Twitter. He said he presumed the ABB got the idea from Herbie Mann, but that nobody he interviewed had an answer on how Mountain Jam came to be.


If my theory is correct (i.e. that Duane picked it up when he was playing sessions with the same produced/engineer that recorded Herbie Mann's version), then that makes sense... Because only he would know, and he is sadly unavailable.

quote:
I think it was inspired by jazz and the idea of taking a melody and expanding on it...much in the way John Coltrane took My Favorite Things and made it what it is today in the jamband and jazz scene.


...Not to derail this tread but goldtop is onto something here......




Yep, my Herbie Mann theory fits that... Duane was just starting to get into jazz, so listening to Herbie Mann would be pretty likely... especially since Herbie later sat in on the ABB Central Park concert and Duane later played on Herbie's "Push Push" album.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/19/2014 at 08:47 PM
The ABB was doing Mountain Jam by early May of '69. I think that's too soon for a producer to be involved. "Windows Open" was done by Joel Dorn and Adrian Barber, who did the ABB's first album, but it was recorded in September '69.

 

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  posted on 3/20/2014 at 08:07 AM
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My father likes jazz, I never really took to it. One Sunday, he and my mother were over for dinner and I had some ABB in the CD player on background. Halfway through Mountain Jam, he asks me who it was and says, "This is great". My father and I have absolutely no musical crossover and for him to say that at that point in my life was a validation I didn't realize would mean so much to me until he said it.


Interesting. My father is an Opera/Classical music guy; never cared for R&R. I was always playing the ABB and it was the only music I listened to that he liked. He really liked Jessica and the ending of it on WTW. It had a strong classical influence.

 

Peach Bud



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  posted on 3/26/2014 at 01:09 PM
quote:
The ABB was doing Mountain Jam by early May of '69. I think that's too soon for a producer to be involved. "Windows Open" was done by Joel Dorn and Adrian Barber, who did the ABB's first album, but it was recorded in September '69.


"Windows Opened" is a red herring... Herbie Mann recorded "There is a Mountain" on September 21, 1967 for "String Album." WAY before May of '69. Tom Dowd was the engineer.

So the link is not Joel Dorn and Adrian Barber, it is Tom Dowd.

Duane played on sessions that were engineered and/or produced by Tom Dowd at least 6 times between the date Dowd recorded "There is a Mountain" with Herbie Mann (September, '67) and May '69. That included multiple sessions each with Wilson Pickett, King Curtis, and Arethea Franklin, some of which were in the same NYC studio (the Atlantic studio) where Dowd recorded Mann's "Mountain". (FYI, this information comes from http://www.jazzdisco.org/atlantic-records/discography-1968/)

When Marley says May '69 is too soon for a produced to have been involved in "Mountain Jam" that may be right, at least from a recording perspective, i.e. I doubt Dowd attempted to record "Mountain" with the ABB.

But I do think that it is pretty likely, or at least possible, that the man who recorded Mann's "Mountain" would have shared it with Duane at some point... They were in the studio together a LOT in-between the time Mann recorded "Mountain" and the time the ABB started doing MJ. And that was during the period when Duane was getting more into jazz.

I can't find ANY link between Donovan and the ABB, other than the chance that the ABB might have head "mountain" on the radio. It seems much more likely to me that a musician who is getting into jazz would pick up a song from a producer/engineer that he has a close relationship with, especially since that producer/engineer recorded the song in question.

Also worth noting that 2 years after the fact (summer of 1971) Herbie Mann sat in with the ABB in Central Park and played with them on Mountain Jam. Now maybe the book "Skydog" is correct, and Mann just happened to be in his apartment and just happened to enjoy the music he was hearing, and decided to walk on down and join the band... That's a nice story, but it seems more likely that Dowd may have introduced Herbie and Duane sometime before that... Its nice to think he just wandered over, but (close your ears kids) usually these things are arranged in advance.

Anyway, we will never know for sure... Duane is sadly dead, so is Herbie, so is Dowd.

For what it's worth, Jaimoe (at a book signing for "One Way Out") was asked and said that he though Twiggs suggested it.

 

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  posted on 7/31/2018 at 01:27 PM
^ Bump for DOVETAIL

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2018 at 09:34 AM
A great thread.
I’m listening to the 68 Dead show-a tremendous show
Listening closely there’s no doubt that Alligator jam veers to the Mountain and to the jam.The jam is different but the foundation is there.

Way way cool.

[Edited on 8/1/2018 by dadof2]

 

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  posted on 8/1/2018 at 10:03 AM
i never this acknowledged but this came out in 68. Since the bros loved jazz, one could assume they heard this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17aS5RkcjV0

 

Peach Bud



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  posted on 8/4/2018 at 09:04 AM
What I do know first hand is that Gregory once told me that the song was brought to ABB by Duane.
As Gregg told me, when Duane one day suggested doing the song to the group and met with protests over doing a Donovan cover, he responded with “No, not the whole song. I think just the hook riff and melody would make a great launching point for an instrumental jam.”
ABB gave it a try and liked the results.
It always cracked me up that the younger whipper snappers in the crew had no idea that the song was based on a 60’s cover or even who Donovan is. LOL
Warren’s tech, Brian Farmer, was one of those and he always laughed at the lyrics.
He and I started doing little hand-jive routines on the side of the stage of mountains that appear and disappear, and of butterflies and caterpillars crawling on garden gates, whenever the song was played.
Brian loved it and always broke out in laughter whenever it got played.
He would often have me recite the lyrics to new crew folk who had no idea what the song was about.


[Edited on 8/4/2018 by DavedK]

 

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  posted on 8/8/2018 at 09:45 AM
quote:
What I do know first hand is that Gregory once told me that the song was brought to ABB by Duane.
As Gregg told me, when Duane one day suggested doing the song to the group and met with protests over doing a Donovan cover, he responded with “No, not the whole song. I think just the hook riff and melody would make a great launching point for an instrumental jam.”
ABB gave it a try and liked the results.
It always cracked me up that the younger whipper snappers in the crew had no idea that the song was based on a 60’s cover or even who Donovan is. LOL
Warren’s tech, Brian Farmer, was one of those and he always laughed at the lyrics.
He and I started doing little hand-jive routines on the side of the stage of mountains that appear and disappear, and of butterflies and caterpillars crawling on garden gates, whenever the song was played.
Brian loved it and always broke out in laughter whenever it got played.
He would often have me recite the lyrics to new crew folk who had no idea what the song was about.


[Edited on 8/4/2018 by DavedK]


Haha that's funny. Thanks for sharing that information. I do know that despite the claims of how the Allmans got the idea from Mountain Jam from the dead, according to people who were close to the band from the early days, this did not happen.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2018 at 07:57 PM
quote:
i never this acknowledged but this came out in 68. Since the bros loved jazz, one could assume they heard this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17aS5RkcjV0



Wow!! This is interesting! Recorded in 1967 and released in 1968.


My guess is that Duane heard this and used it as a blueprint for the jam.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2018 at 08:29 PM
The guitar playing is really good! -- Ivan Jones could really play
All 3 of these versions came out in 1968 -- this one, Herbie Mann's version, and Donovan's
agreed that this is way way cool

 

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