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Author: Subject: MP3 Detection

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 03:39 PM
I've wondered about this for a while, how to do it, etc. Here's a start. I know of one person 'round these parts, although only a sporadic visitor, that boasts a large ABB collection due in large part to MP3 collection.

This sites provides some pointers for IDing MP3 sources using EAC.

http://www.audiohub.org/get/fa/fa.htm
http://www.audiohub.org/get/fa/sa.htm


Much going on both personally and with work, so B&Ps/Freebies are, by necessity, a low priority. Hope everyone has a pleasant and safe holiday season.

Ron

[Edited on 12/9/2003 by RonB]

 
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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 07:01 PM
Thanks for the links Ron.
Some people convert their MP3's into FLAC/SHN.

 

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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 07:04 PM
mp3's suck.

any format that deletes data in compression stinks.

with that being said, i do have about 1,500 mp3's from the Napster heyday....but i would never trade them.

 

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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 07:18 PM
MP3 is probablyy the greatest tech innovation in the last 10 years. Saying that, it sucks that MP3 pollute the trading pool.

quote:
Some people convert their MP3's into FLAC/SHN.


You have to be clueless to re-convert back into SHN and then pretend that it was never an MP3.... Trading MP3s as long as you clearly tell people that they are MP3 is fine to me. This usually DOES NOT happen. Then the copies start to circulate that have been MP3'ed and degrade the trading quality of the show being traded.

People who are not sure should understand that MP3 is a lossy format meaning that part of the quality is lost in the MP3 conversion process. Can everyone tell: maybe not. However it ruins a perfect file, which CANNOT be restored ever to its original form......

My rule is: MP3 for your personal use only. Trade AUDIO/SHN or FLAC

 

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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 07:23 PM
amen Brother Billy!!

you're liable to get hung up by your toenails for trading MP3's, or flacs that used to be MP3's

 

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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 07:46 PM
Guys, explain SHN. I'm a newbie at trading. I'm just starting out. I've got The Mule Show from 10/16/03 coming. My guy said it's SHN but I don't know what that means.
 

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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 08:03 PM
Hey 67,welcome.It's good to know this straight away.You'll be able to collect more tunes this way.
Shn is short for a program called Shorten.It makes a wav(music) file into a data file.The reason it's good is that the shn files can then be traded without the worry of a less than perfect extraction.Each person decodes the shn for themselves,ending up with an exact copy of the original wav file.

You need to go here http://etree.org/ and download mkwACT in the top right hand corner.Read the instructions there thoroughly,they'll tell you what to do with your shns.

 

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  posted on 12/9/2003 at 09:04 PM
To add info to what bigeasy said:

quote:
Hey 67,welcome.It's good to know this straight away.You'll be able to collect more tunes this way.
Shn is short for a program called Shorten.It makes a wav(music) file into a data file.The reason it's good is that the shn files can then be traded without the worry of a less than perfect extraction.Each person decodes the shn for themselves,ending up with an exact copy of the original wav file.

You need to go here http://etree.org/ and download mkwACT in the top right hand corner.Read the instructions there thoroughly,they'll tell you what to do with your shns.


SHN are data files which are compressed, but none of the file has been eliminated. Also it is about 40% smaller than a WAV file, thus saving space and size. The great thing about SHN is that you can verify if the SHN file has been corrupted.

You do this by clicking on the MD5 checksum file that should come along with all SHN files.

You also need to get either a small Shorten or MKW utility program to decode your files into WAV files (thus becoming Audio files).

PS WinAmp3 plays SHNs with the plug-in.

Hope this was helpful to you.

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 12:05 AM
For those who have not made the jump to Nero, some fantastic souls developed plugins for it, and you can burn cd's directly from the files, .shn or .flac, without having to inflate them to your hard drive first with mkwACT. It's incredibly fast, and I've only encountered two or three shows that it hasn't worked with. In those cases I've had to use mkwACT. It's great since I don't have to clutter my hard drive with both files, and makes it a charm to burn shows straight from my archive discs.

Now, here's a little b&p action to celebrate the near end of school for the semester...

For 3 folks:

Cream 10/15/67 in shorten format. This show is the best Cream boot I've heard yet, and Clapton is on fire! The show is 2 discs: case covers, and other show info included with the music data. For those not familiar with trading .shns, I'll be sending you data files that you have to convert to wav/cd yourself.

PM me for details, and let me know if you're sending Japanese Fujis or Taiwan discs so I can get a head start on burning.

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 12:20 AM
Jereman is on the mark when he says the Cream show is top quality. I grabbed it myself a few days back, and my PC has been smoking ever since from the heat of the jams. A 20 minute Spoonful that will melt you in your chair. Great offer.

Ron

EDIT MOD....here's some info on the show:

CREAM: LIVE AT THE GRANDE BALLROOM
Detroit, Michigan, Sunday 15th October 1967


These were Cream's last dates on their '67 US tour. Detroit was a great music
town with a burgeoning Rock scene. Russ Gibb's Grande Ballroom was the
key venue. It was a popular venue with many touring bands. Cream among
them. Russ took an early gamble with Cream - it was his first major overseas
act and he got them pretty cheap. Cream returned in December '67 and June
'68.

On arrival in the USA, Cream were a blues band developing into a full blown
Rock band. At the Fillmore the demands of the audience drew them into
longer and longer improvisations. The earlier stretching of songs like
"Spoonful" and "I'm So Glad" became fully blown jams. By their appearance
here, the improvisation had become de-rigeur with them stretching each other
to the hilt. Their sound was fully mature with the dual Marshall stacks at
"overwhelming" volume, but not at extreme overload, and Ginger at maximum
fitness.

Not only were the songs extended but so had the set. In this era 45 minutes
was considered a 'full' set while 60 minutes was 'long'. With only one support
band at the Grande Ballroom on these nights they played around a 2 hour set!
What you hear on these two CD's is the complete (not incomplete as I
originally believed) recording of their Sunday night set. It was an early start
(6.00pm) "no age limit" show so they really turned it on - time & energy,
weren't an issue as shown by Clapton's comment before "Stepping Out": "We
haven't finished yet".

While it is one set, as evidenced by the missing of. the initial note of
"Spoonful" after the tape change, it is a typical 2 set arrangement that they
developed in England, evolved at the Fillmore and probably refined at their
extended stay at the Psychadelic Supermarket in Boston. While that Boston
gig was not particularly enjoyable they had plenty of jammin' time.
This show captures them at, perhaps, not their individual technical peak but at
their group peak. There is not a dull moment in this show with Baker ensuring
that Clapton never slides into his blues noodling mode and Bruce providing
endless harmonic suggestions. And Eric glueing it together, over rampaging
bass and drums, with his seemless blending of licks just pouring out of his
bottomless blues bag.

While Clapton's playing is not as refined as in the '68 recordings it is more
then compensated for by his high aggression, powerful use of very controlled
feedback and the stunning use of the 'woman tone' at extreme high volume,
"NSU" in particular. We also hear extensive use of the tremelo arm during the
group intro on "Toad" and a short passage during the "Sweet Wine" jam
(around the 5 minute mark - the crunch at the end of this passage is the
locking back of the arm), which is reminiscent of the 'feedback' outtake from
the 'Fresh Cream' sessions.

Baker and Bruce are just in outstanding improvisation mode. While the bass
was under recorded, the remastering has made it quite clear and physically
present. We hear Jack at full tilt as the dual counter-pointing lead guitarist with
his voice magnificently defined and regularly overloading the mike.

The clarity of the drums, especially the snare and cymbals, allows us to really
hear what Baker could do in this extreme volume environment. The superb
tuning of the kit and the magnificent sound of it just cuts through - that Leedy
snare is just unbelievable. To put it simply - they don't make drum kits like that
any more and no one plays 'em like that, not even the man himself these
days.

Turn it Down to Deafening!

[Edited on 12/10/2003 by RonB]

 
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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 06:34 AM
I'll be #1 for the cream show.
Thanks.

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 07:03 AM
This show sounds great !!
I'll take the # 2 spot !!
PMOTW

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 07:13 AM
Hey it pays to be up somewhat early, I'd love to take the #3 spot, Thanks!
 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 07:21 AM
Is there a nero plugin for FLAC?

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 07:48 AM
BigEasy, Billy_Kain, Thanks I appreciate the info!!!
 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 07:57 AM
Newt, the download page is here: http://neroplugins.cd-rw.org/ . It's a list of pretty much all of the plugins available for Nero.

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 11:49 AM
wow thanks!
Will these work with any version of Nero or just the new one?

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 02:21 PM
I have a question regarding the software I now use to burn discs. I have Windows Media Player which I believe stores music in an MP3 format when I burn to the hard drive, but it does some sort of conversion before transfering the music on to a disc. Should I look for different burning software or is this ok? Am I losing quality when I burn to the hard drive and then extract to disc? Thanks for any help.

DISCLAIMER!!: I just bought the computer within the last month, so please don't be alarmed if I traded with you in the past, the discs weren't burnt in this way, usually a stand alone burner or my brothers 'puter.

Peace,
Josh

 

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  posted on 12/10/2003 at 05:52 PM
Windows Media Player is inferior in every way to pretty much any other software out there...

For ripping purposes download EAC- Exact Audio Copy- and follow the set up instructions from the links from the homepage for ripping music without compression. Never convert music you are trading to MP3- folks have been found in the woods with a bullet hole in the head for messing with the quality of the trading pool. This is serious business. If you're lucky your CD burner is supported by EAC and you can use that to burn your discs as well. Also it's best to avoid copying discs, you should be actually ripping uncompressed to the hard drive first. As bad as ripping to MP3 is burning disc to disc and/or track at once. I knew a guy that ended up swimming with the fishes for those infractions.
I use Nero for burning, which is shareware, and I know the trial didn't used to expire, although that may have changed with later releases. If you use it and like it, of course you should buy it. It's a great program.

 

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  posted on 12/11/2003 at 04:50 PM
Josh,

Check out this thread for info on setting up EAC

http://www.allmanbrothers.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&fi le=viewthread&tid=10411

 
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  posted on 12/12/2003 at 02:33 PM
What are folks' thoughts about LAME? I know some high-end techies who are involved in studio editing as an avocation. These guys have astonishing gear and cost is no object to them when it comes to computer and music technology. If anyone would be worried about audio loss, these guys would. But they tell me LAME is way different from the rest. It is the best, by far, mp3 compression format available. It also happens to be freeware.

They say a music file extracted from a commercial reference CD with EAC and compressed with LAME cannot be distinguished from the original in the studio by ear. Whatever marginal loss their studio editing gear shows is irrelevant since it's outside the range of human hearing anyway. I've done the sound test with them and I can't disagree. I'm not advocating anything here, just reporting what I've experienced and wondering what others' experience might be.

I can certainly understand the concern about corrupting the trading pool, but I don't think a blanket condemnation of mp3 can be justified technically.
Bob

 

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  posted on 12/12/2003 at 02:35 PM
a briefing on what LAME does would be nice. Whenever i install EAC i get confused about that. it seems like you don't need it.

hey, thanks for the link to the nero plugins!

 

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  posted on 12/12/2003 at 03:26 PM
The issue is that every time you convert to mp3, you lose info. Even when you blow it back up to wav. Lame may sound great direct from the commercial reference material, but you keep taking away information everytime it's converted. So eventually the recording starts to sound "swishy" because the compression keeps eliminating info, regardless of whether that is the intent or not. If traders keep compressing and uncompressing their music in mp3 then we end up with no quality down the line. So the best way to make sure that the "swish" stays out of the trading pool is to keep mp3's out.
I don't care if folks convert to mp3 for their own use, but for trades lossless is the way to go, then I can have better chances of receiving quality. Lame, like any mp3 format, is only going to sound good for a generation or two, then the degradation starts to affect the recording. That's why folks insist on lossless compression.

 

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  posted on 12/12/2003 at 10:35 PM
Is info lost when a SHN/Flac is converted to a wav?

 

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  posted on 12/13/2003 at 12:30 AM
Newt,

No, nothing is lost. Some folks think it's geeky, but if you can get SHNs or FLACs directly from the taper, it's the same as you having his master WAVs when you decode. Cool sh*t in my book. AND, if those SHNs/FLACs get passed along, then each person in the line also has the pristine WAVs. This is case on SHN or FLAC vines, where each person decodes to WAV from the CD, then passes the CD onto the next person. Or, each person can copy the encoded files to their drive (like any data file) so they'll have the compressed files for archiving if they choose.

Ron

[Edited on 12/13/2003 by RonB]

 
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