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Author: Subject: Fed provides data on its lending during the financial crisis

Universal Peach





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  posted on 12/2/2010 at 08:24 AM
Fed Data Show Firms on the Brink

By LUCA DI LEO And MAYA JACKSON RANDALL

WASHINGTON—Goldman Sachs Group Inc., General Electric Co. and the European Central Bank were among the big names that came to the Federal Reserve for help during the financial crisis.

The Federal Reserve today lifted the curtain on the long-awaited details of its emergency lending program during the financial crisis. David Reilly, Jon Hilsenrath & Dennis Berman discuss some of the surprising findings.

The U.S. central bank on Wednesday disclosed details of some $3.3 trillion in loans made to financial firms, companies and foreign central banks during the crisis. In posting the data on its website, the Fed was complying with the Dodd-Frank financial-regulation law passed in July, which, among other things, aims to boost transparency at the U.S. central bank.

The data showed Goldman Sachs used an emergency overnight loan program from the Fed 84 times for a total of nearly $600 billion. Announced in March 2008, the Primary Dealer Credit Facility was used 212 times by Morgan Stanley between March 2008 and March 2009, indicating how close Wall Street's second largest investment bank came to the brink of collapse during the crisis.

Fed officials said it is the biggest release of crisis lending data that a central bank has ever undertaken. The $3.3 trillion figure refers to the sum total of lending at each facility's peak. The data cover all the Fed's emergency lending programs during the crisis except for banks that borrowed from the central bank's discount window, which remains confidential. The files give information on more than 21,000 transactions from December 2007 to July 2010.
Fed Emergency Lending

The Fed said it has made no credit losses on the programs that have been wound down, thanks to better financial conditions, and it doesn't expect losses on the few remaining ones.

In December 2007, the Fed started a series of unprecedented programs aimed at dealing with the credit crunch, as signs grew of severe distress in global financial markets. The central bank first created the Term Auction Facility, or TAF, which allowed banks to bid for loans without the stigma associated with the Fed's discount window, the traditional way to obtain overnight emergency loans.

The data provided insights about how major U.S. commercial and investment banks relied on the special funding programs in the depths of the crisis. Citigroup Inc. used the TAF 26 times; MetLife Inc. unit MetLife Bank used it 19 times; and Bank of America Corp. tapped into the facility 15 times. J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. used TAF only seven times. The last TAF auction was held March 8, 2010.

When financial markets deteriorated after the collapse of Bear Stearns Cos., the Fed created the Primary Dealer Credit Facility, which provided overnight loans to investment banks, a privilege previously reserved for more tightly regulated commercial banks.

When Lehman Brothers failed Sept. 15, 2008, borrowers started to line up for the PDCF. That day, the single-biggest loan went to Barclays Capital, the investment bank of U.K. lender Barclays PLC that eventually bought a big piece of Lehman out of bankruptcy. Several foreign banks benefited from the program, including Deutsche Bank, BNP Paribas and UBS.

The Fed has been accused of being more concerned with bailing out troubled Wall Street financial firms than cutting the unemployment rate, but Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has countered the bailouts were needed to avoid a wider economic collapse.

"Perhaps most surprising is the huge sum that went to bail out foreign private banks and corporations," said Sen. Bernie Sanders (Ind., Vt.), who sponsored the amendment to the Dodd-Frank law forcing the disclosures.

Thanks to Mr. Sanders, who has been leading the fight to make the Fed more transparent, the Government Accountability Office will conduct an audit of the Fed's emergency actions going back to the start of the crisis in 2007.

The Fed and major Wall Street players defended the crisis lending actions in remarks Wednesday. Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher said the central bank "stepped into the breach" in its role as a lender of last resort.

"We took an enormous amount of risk with the people's money," Mr. Fisher said, speaking at a community forum in Killeen, Texas. But the crisis lending programs are now all closed, he said, "and we didn't lose a dime, and in fact we made money on every one of them."

Goldman Sachs also used another Fed facility that loaned Treasury securities to certain investment banks for one month in return for pledged collateral. Goldman used the Term Securities Lending Facility 52 times, Citigroup used it 65 times, and Morgan Stanley used it 34 times. TSLF was closed on Feb. 1, 2010.

In October 2008, the Fed created the Commercial Paper Funding Facility to help companies who had trouble obtaining short-term loans called commercial paper.

The data release showed borrowers ranging from General Electric to Chrysler Financial Services, American International Group Inc. and GMAC LLC tapped the facility during the depths of the financial crisis.

Companies outside the traditional banking world also sold commercial paper. Apart from banks, the Fed also bought short-term debt from McDonalds Corp., Verizon Communications Inc., Harley-Davidson Inc., and state-owned Korea Development Bank.

Investors gradually became willing to lend to companies that rely on this type of funding to pay their employees and landlords and to stock inventory. Their need for such funds has fallen, and many have found more attractive rates in the longer-term corporate-bond market. The CPFF stopped making loans Feb. 1.

Some of the largest players in the bond market, such as Allianz SE's Pacific Investment Management Co., also used the Fed's programs. California-based Pimco borrowed $7.1 billion from the Fed's Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility, or TALF. Launched March 2009, the program was designed to bring back to life the asset-backed securities market, which funded a substantial share of consumer credit and small business loans.

Details provided on the Fed website include the borrower's name, the amount borrowed, the date the credit was extended, the interest rate charged, information about collateral and other relevant credit terms. Similar information is given for Fed loans to foreign central banks via the dollar liquidity swap lines.

The ECB used this facility 271 times from December 2007, with loans picking up again this year following Europe's debt crisis, in a reminder that the effects of the financial crisis are still being felt.
—Bob Sechler and Anusha Shrivastava contributed to this article.



Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704594804575648740948074042.h tml#ixzz16xbA3ZBr

 
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Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 10:20 AM
Senator Bernie Sanders raises some interesting questions about the Fed's actions and potential conflicts of interests with their lending practices during the financial crisis:

Sen. Bernie Sanders
Independent U.S. Senator from Vermont
Posted: December 2, 2010 12:43
A Real Jaw Dropper at the Federal Reserve

At a Senate Budget Committee hearing in 2009, I asked Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke to tell the American people the names of the financial institutions that received an unprecedented backdoor bailout from the Federal Reserve, how much they received, and the exact terms of this assistance. He refused. A year and a half later, as a result of an amendment that I was able to include in the Wall Street reform bill, we have begun to lift the veil of secrecy at the Fed, and the American people now have this information.

It is unfortunate that it took this long, and it is a shame that the biggest banks in America and Mr. Bernanke fought to keep this secret from the American public every step of the way. But, the details on this bailout are now on the Federal Reserve's website, and this is a major victory for the American taxpayer and for transparency in government.

Importantly, my amendment also required the Government Accountability Office to conduct a top-to-bottom audit of all of the emergency lending the Fed provided during the financial crisis to be completed on July 21, 2011, which will take a hard look at all of the potential conflicts of interest that took place with respect to this bailout. So, in many respects, details that the Fed was forced to divulge on Wednesday about the $3.3 trillion in emergency loans that until now were totally kept from public scrutiny, marked the beginning, not the end, of lifting the veil of secrecy at the Fed.

After years of stonewalling by the Fed, the American people are finally learning the incredible and jaw-dropping details of the Fed's multi-trillion-dollar bailout of Wall Street and corporate America. As a result of this disclosure, other members of Congress and I will be taking a very extensive look at all aspects of how the Federal Reserve functions and how we can make our financial institutions more responsive to the needs of ordinary Americans and small businesses.

What have we learned so far from the disclosure of more than 21,000 transactions? We have learned that the $700 billion Wall Street bailout signed into law by President George W. Bush turned out to be pocket change compared to the trillions and trillions of dollars in near-zero interest loans and other financial arrangements the Federal Reserve doled out to every major financial institution in this country. Among those are Goldman Sachs, which received nearly $600 billion; Morgan Stanley, which received nearly $2 trillion; Citigroup, which received $1.8 trillion; Bear Stearns, which received nearly $1 trillion, and Merrill Lynch, which received some $1.5 trillion in short term loans from the Fed.

We also learned that the Fed's multi-trillion bailout was not limited to Wall Street and big banks, but that some of the largest corporations in this country also received a very substantial bailout. Among those are General Electric, McDonald's, Caterpillar, Harley Davidson, Toyota and Verizon.

Perhaps most surprising is the huge sum that went to bail out foreign private banks and corporations including two European megabanks -- Deutsche Bank and Credit Suisse -- which were the largest beneficiaries of the Fed's purchase of mortgage-backed securities.

Deutsche Bank, a German lender, sold the Fed more than $290 billion worth of mortgage securities. Credit Suisse, a Swiss bank, sold the Fed more than $287 billion in mortgage bonds.

Has the Federal Reserve of the United States become the central bank of the world?

The Fed said that this bailout was necessary to prevent the world economy from going over a cliff. But three years after the start of the recession, millions of Americans remain unemployed and have lost their homes, life savings and ability to send their kids to college. Meanwhile, big banks and corporations have returned to making huge profits and paying their executives record-breaking compensation packages as if the financial crisis they started never happened.

What this disclosure tells us, among many other things, is that despite this huge taxpayer bailout, the Fed did not make the appropriate demands on these institutions necessary to rebuild our economy and protect the needs of ordinary Americans.

For example, at a time when big banks have nearly a trillion dollars in excess reserves parked at the Fed, the Fed did not require these institutions to increase lending to small- and medium-sized businesses as a condition of the bailout.

At a time when large corporations are more profitable than ever, the Fed did not demand that corporations that received this backdoor bailout create jobs and expand the economy once they returned to profitability.

I intend to investigate whether these secret Fed loans, in some cases, turned out to be direct corporate welfare to big banks that used these loans not to reinvest in the economy but rather to lend back to the federal government at a higher rate of interest by purchasing Treasury Securities. Instead of using this money to reinvest in the productive economy, I suspect a large portion of these near-zero interest loans were used to buy Treasury Securities at a higher interest rate providing free money to some of the largest financial institutions in this country. That is something that we have got to closely examine.

At a time when Wall Street executives are now making more money than before the financial crisis, how many big banks that paid back TARP funds in 2009 to avoid limits on executive compensation received no-strings-attached loans from the Federal Reserve?

At a time when millions of Americans are paying outrageously high credit card interest rates, why didn't the Fed require credit card issuers to lower interest rates as a condition of the bailout?

The four largest banks in this country (Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Wells Fargo, and Citigroup) issue half of all mortgages in this country. We now know that these banks received hundreds of billions from the Fed. How many Americans could have remained in their homes, if the Fed required these bailed-out banks to reduce mortgage payments as a condition of receiving these secret loans?

We have begun to lift the veil of secrecy at one of most important agencies in our government. What we are seeing is the incredible power of a small number of people who have incredible conflicts of interest getting incredible help from the taxpayers of this country while ignoring the needs of the people.


 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 10:28 AM
So while we thought we were just bailing out the banking bastards in this country, we were actually bailing out banks around the world?

quote:
I intend to investigate whether these secret Fed loans, in some cases, turned out to be direct corporate welfare to big banks that used these loans not to reinvest in the economy but rather to lend back to the federal government at a higher rate of interest by purchasing Treasury Securities. Instead of using this money to reinvest in the productive economy, I suspect a large portion of these near-zero interest loans were used to buy Treasury Securities at a higher interest rate providing free money to some of the largest financial institutions in this country. That is something that we have got to closely examine.


Good for Bernie Sanders. I'm looking forward even more to the wikileaks banking installment.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 10:51 AM
Banks and a number of corporations it would appear. $3.3 Trillion dollars all without any oversight, or, from what he suggests, any strings attached. I find it amazing that the general public seems to care very little about this but has been very vocal about, and rightly so, the TARP program.
 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 10:53 AM
They refused to provide any information until forced to by Congress. Now we know why.

 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:00 AM
And here's some more info:

Cross Section of Rich Invested With the Fed
By SEWELL CHAN and BEN PROTESS
Published: December 2, 2010

WASHINGTON — One investor, Kenneth H. Dahlberg, is a World War II flying ace who, as a volunteer in President Richard M. Nixon’s re-election campaign, was a minor figure in the Watergate scandal.

J. Christopher Flowers, a Wall Street financier, was among those who took part in the Fed's emergency lending program.

Another investor, Magalen O. Bryant, runs a horse farm in Virginia and is active in steeplechase racing circles. A third, Ward W. Woods, is the chairman of the nonprofit organization that runs the Bronx Zoo.

They were among scores of wealthy but lesser-known investors in an emergency lending program the Federal Reserve announced in November 2008, three weeks after President Obama’s election, to support the market for student, auto, credit card and small-business loans.

The investors, whose identities were disclosed as part of a trove of 21,000 records released on Wednesday at the direction of Congress, are a cross-section of America’s wealthy — investors who, in the midst of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, heard about an opportunity and weighed the risk.

The list, not surprisingly, includes famous Wall Street financiers like J. Christopher Flowers, John A. Paulson and Julian Robertson, demonstrating the extent to which the Fed relied on fast-moving hedge funds to keep credit flowing through the markets.

There were also institutional investors like the Ford Foundation and the pension plan for Major League Baseball. And there were wealthy businessmen like the computer executive Michael S. Dell and the home builder Bruce E. Toll.

Investors like Mr. Dell are identified in the Fed’s data because they owned or were part of a group that owned a “material” stake in a company or a fund that received funding from the Fed. They may not have been involved in the decision to borrow from the Fed. Through the program, known as the Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility, or TALF, the investors helped keep markets for consumer loans from seizing up by steadily buying securities. About $71 billion was lent by the Fed out of the $200 billion available. The program, which began in March 2009, ended June 30, 2010; two-thirds of the loans have been repaid early. The remaining ones come due as late as 2015. The Fed has said it does not expect to lose any money in the program.

The investors put up their own money in return for Fed financing that was then plowed into the markets for securitized loans — bundles of credit card or auto dealership debt and student loans. The investors shouldered the risk that the loan packages could lose value and be worth less than the amount they had borrowed from the Fed.

Ordinarily, bundles of loans of this type are not difficult to sell, but after Lehman went bankrupt in September 2008, the market for such debt suddenly froze. The point of the program was to keep money moving through the markets while having investors, not the Fed, bear the risk.

Mr. Dahlberg was one such investor. The newly disclosed records show he was an investor in Broad Creek Partners, which borrowed $28.1 million from the Fed, through TALF, to purchase a portion of a security issued by GE Capital, the financing arm of General Electric. The security was backed by subprime credit card loans. To obtain the loan, Broad Creek pledged as collateral the market value of the security, $30.5 million.

Nearly all of some two dozen TALF investors contacted on Thursday declined to comment or did not respond to messages.

One who did agree to talk was Dov C. Schlein, a former president of the Republic Bank of New York, who estimated that he made a healthy profit, but not a killing.

“Realistically, if you were an early investor you could net 10 percent,” he said. “If you came in much later when the program looked to be successful, then the return dropped to 8, 7, 6, 5 percent.”

Mr. Schlein said he told fellow investors that they should be prepared for their names to become public at some point.

“I told anyone who invested in it at the time that if you’re not prepared for that information to be disclosed, you should not invest,” he said.

Mr. Schlein said he was by no means certain of making money; if unemployment had skyrocketed to 12 percent, for example, he would have expected to lose from huge defaults.

Indeed, when Mr. Schlein told students in his finance class at Baruch College, his alma mater, about the Fed program, some deemed it too risky. A year later, a new group of students said it was a shrewd gamble.

“They said, ‘You got a gift from the Fed,’ ” Mr. Schlein recalled.

Mr. Schlein was an investor in a fund that received 19 loans, totaling $260.9 million, to purchase securities backed by credit card, auto and student loans.

Another investor, Jeffrey R. Krinsk, estimated that he made a profit of about 13 percent, or more than $300,000 on his investment of roughly $2 million, in less than 18 months. “The risk being assumed by investors was generally far less than the risk that was perceived by commentators who hadn’t taken the time to look through the extensive documentation associated with the program,” said Mr. Krinsk, a plaintiffs’ lawyer in San Diego. “It was actually less esoteric, less risky, than other investments I’ve made.”

Many of the investors in the program had backgrounds in finance, including Stephen Partridge-Hicks, who is credited with creating the market for structured investment vehicles, and Robert F. Corvino, who is a director of the CME Group, a major options and futures marketplace.

Many of the financiers, the records show, teamed up, like Jay M. Twery, Walt K. Weissman and M. Blair Wellensiek, who work at Tradelink Holdings, a Chicago trading firm.

Some financiers show up in the Fed data because of their ownership in companies that sought funds from the Fed. In one instance, Mr. Paulson and Mr. Flowers, the financiers, formed OneWest Bank, the successor to the collapsed lender IndyMac, which borrowed from the Fed. Mr. Dell’s investment firm, MSD Capital, is an investor in the bank as well.

Records show that Ms. Bryant, the steeplechase enthusiast, was an investor in Belstar Credit Fund, which obtained 22 loans in amounts ranging from $2.5 million to $75.2 million. Belstar used the loans to purchase securities backed by credit card and auto loans, mortgages and small-business loans. When reached by phone, she declined to comment.

Mr. Woods, who is chairman of the Wildlife Conservation Society, which runs the Bronx Zoo, and a former chief executive of Bessemer Securities, was an investor in the Nebris Corporation, which borrowed $10.2 million to purchase a security backed by student loans. He did not respond to messages left with his associates.

Mr. Dahlberg, a decorated aviator, became prominent early in the Watergate scandal because his name was on a check deposited in an account controlled by one of the burglars. Mr. Dahlberg, who was not accused of any wrongdoing in the scandal and is now a venture capitalist, did not return phone calls Thursday.

Mr. Schlein, the New York investor, said he felt he was helping out the Fed at a critical moment. “The program was well thought-out,” he said. “I thought it was an exceptional program.”

But he also said there was a downside potential. “The risk was that the economy was going to fall off a cliff,” he said.

Sewell Chan reported from Washington and Ben Protess from New York. Jo Craven McGinty contributed reporting from New York.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:19 AM
While millions lose their jobs, homes, spouses....

I'm not watching TV these days, but I would imagine people all over the country are royally pissed about all the revelations coming out in recent weeks and months. It appears that both corporate and government are being exposed again and again as worthless buffoons whose only real ability is to make themselves wealthier.

I'm going to keep stacking firewood and settle in for a nice, long ride. This should all be interesting to watch. Dec. 21, 2012 just two years away, and all the signs falling into place.

 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:25 AM
quote:
$3.3 Trillion dollars all without any oversight, or, from what he suggests, any strings attached.


Sounds like how we've spent money in Iraq.

 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:26 AM
quote:
So while we thought we were just bailing out the banking bastards in this country, we were actually bailing out banks around the world?


And phone company bastards, and car company bastards and…well, you get the point.

This is a pretty good link:

http://bailout.propublica.org/list/index

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:37 AM
quote:
quote:
While millions lose their jobs, homes, spouses....

I'm not watching TV these days, but I would imagine people all over the country are royally pissed about all the revelations coming out in recent weeks and months. It appears that both corporate and government are being exposed again and again as worthless buffoons whose only real ability is to make themselves wealthier.

I'm going to keep stacking firewood and settle in for a nice, long ride. This should all be interesting to watch. Dec. 21, 2012 just two years away, and all the signs falling into place.


SCB...did gina log in as you?


Charlie, I discuss issues here in the context they are presented, and only really think about them this way during the time I'm reading and posting on this website. I've thrown enough out there to know very few here have the same world view I have, so I don't get into it much. But I believe everything happens exactly the way it is supposed to in each of our lives. No matter what happens, it is for our growth and development, and was the best possible outcome based on our choices. I believe there is far more going on than we see with our eyes, or our mind's eye.

The events that are playing out now have been forecast, and are part of a perfect plan. I expect to see the economy continue to dive, because we are going through a fundamental change on the planet. We are leaving behind the old ways, but they are not going easily. This is the dawning of the Age of Aguarius. There will be changes some of us can't even imagine right now, and as you can see, they are already taking place. There re millions and millions of people all over the planet tuning into what is taking place, and you won't see it reported on TV. There is a reason so many Americans are sitting around idle, with no work to do. They are re-evaluating their lives, their choices, their future, all part of the plan. We each came into this life with certain things we wanted to achieve, and for many on the planet right now, it was to be a part of this monumental time of change and expansion in human development. In the midst of chaos, wonderful things are happening. People are finding their true calling. People are drawing closer together as they find themselves needing help, and needing to help. People are relearning the very old ways, many of which have sustained us throughout our history. Simple things like sharing, bartering, creating with our hands, noticing the other life forms around us, and taking time to go inside and get to know ourselves.

So while I discuss world and national events, that is more a less a diversion for me. To me, the real action is going on in a way that you just won't see much about on TV. I see it happening around me on a daily basis, and then what I read about in world events just shows me that it is going on on a world wide scale. Breaking down of the old, for the rebuilding of the new. I bet in 20 years there won't even be a Federal Reserve.

 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:38 AM
quote:
quote:
So while we thought we were just bailing out the banking bastards in this country, we were actually bailing out banks around the world?


And phone company bastards, and car company bastards and…well, you get the point.

This is a pretty good link:

http://bailout.propublica.org/list/index


I should have said "bastards around the world."

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:41 AM
quote:
quote:
So while we thought we were just bailing out the banking bastards in this country, we were actually bailing out banks around the world?


And phone company bastards, and car company bastards and…well, you get the point.

This is a pretty good link:

http://bailout.propublica.org/list/index
Scumbags all, Jim...

We sold a kickass TALF hedge fund...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:49 AM
quote:
quote:
So while we thought we were just bailing out the banking bastards in this country, we were actually bailing out banks around the world?


And phone company bastards, and car company bastards and…well, you get the point.

This is a pretty good link:

http://bailout.propublica.org/list/index


Now come one, jim. I scrolled WAY down that list, way over a hundred names, and almost every one of them has the words, bank, financial, mortgage, or loan in the name. It is a list of banks, financial institutions, and mortgage and loans companies. The same bastards that didn't do the paperwork, and are putting millions of Americans out of their homes, is borrowing money from them at the same time.

Heads are going to roll and buildings are going to burn over this sh*t, you wait and see. That old term "he's gone postal" will be replaced with "he's gone foreclosure."

 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 11:50 AM
quote:
Scumbags all, Jim...

We sold a kickass TALF hedge fund...




I wish we did. We are not as nimble as you big folks that took the bailout money!!!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 01:38 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
While millions lose their jobs, homes, spouses....

I'm not watching TV these days, but I would imagine people all over the country are royally pissed about all the revelations coming out in recent weeks and months. It appears that both corporate and government are being exposed again and again as worthless buffoons whose only real ability is to make themselves wealthier.

I'm going to keep stacking firewood and settle in for a nice, long ride. This should all be interesting to watch. Dec. 21, 2012 just two years away, and all the signs falling into place.


SCB...did gina log in as you?


Charlie, I discuss issues here in the context they are presented, and only really think about them this way during the time I'm reading and posting on this website. I've thrown enough out there to know very few here have the same world view I have, so I don't get into it much. But I believe everything happens exactly the way it is supposed to in each of our lives. No matter what happens, it is for our growth and development, and was the best possible outcome based on our choices. I believe there is far more going on than we see with our eyes, or our mind's eye.

The events that are playing out now have been forecast, and are part of a perfect plan. I expect to see the economy continue to dive, because we are going through a fundamental change on the planet. We are leaving behind the old ways, but they are not going easily. This is the dawning of the Age of Aguarius. There will be changes some of us can't even imagine right now, and as you can see, they are already taking place. There re millions and millions of people all over the planet tuning into what is taking place, and you won't see it reported on TV. There is a reason so many Americans are sitting around idle, with no work to do. They are re-evaluating their lives, their choices, their future, all part of the plan. We each came into this life with certain things we wanted to achieve, and for many on the planet right now, it was to be a part of this monumental time of change and expansion in human development. In the midst of chaos, wonderful things are happening. People are finding their true calling. People are drawing closer together as they find themselves needing help, and needing to help. People are relearning the very old ways, many of which have sustained us throughout our history. Simple things like sharing, bartering, creating with our hands, noticing the other life forms around us, and taking time to go inside and get to know ourselves.

So while I discuss world and national events, that is more a less a diversion for me. To me, the real action is going on in a way that you just won't see much about on TV. I see it happening around me on a daily basis, and then what I read about in world events just shows me that it is going on on a world wide scale. Breaking down of the old, for the rebuilding of the new. I bet in 20 years there won't even be a Federal Reserve.


Oh, I agree. I was just busting on ya, SCB.


No worries.

Even stuff like being able to spend time with your folks, splitting wood for the fire you are all warming yourselves by, having the time to do cool stuff with your dog, all this because the economy sucks and you're out of a job. But is it all bad? Hell, no.

quote:
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...

 

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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 02:13 PM
quote:
Heads are going to roll and buildings are going to burn over this sh*t, you wait and see. That old term "he's gone postal" will be replaced with "he's gone foreclosure."


I like that, well not the reality of it, but I did think it was funny. This horse has been beaten, but I think there is plenty of blame to go around including the consumer and borrower. Yes, the banks have blame on their hands, but then again, so did the people who made $30k a year and bought a $500,000 home with no money down…then took out more money to pay for something they did not need. There was plenty of greed and now there is plenty of blame. It was a circular firing squad.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 02:19 PM

It was a circular firing squad.


LMAO, true, so true....

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 02:28 PM
quote:
quote:
Heads are going to roll and buildings are going to burn over this sh*t, you wait and see. That old term "he's gone postal" will be replaced with "he's gone foreclosure."


I like that, well not the reality of it, but I did think it was funny. This horse has been beaten, but I think there is plenty of blame to go around including the consumer and borrower. Yes, the banks have blame on their hands, but then again, so did the people who made $30k a year and bought a $500,000 home with no money down…then took out more money to pay for something they did not need. There was plenty of greed and now there is plenty of blame. It was a circular firing squad.


There may be plenty of blame, jim, but certain parties are still wealthy and other parties don't have homes or jobs anymore. At some point, it isn't going to matter who is to blame. Pissed off people usually don't blame themselves. It is quite easy to see why they might be mad at a bank.

 

____________________


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 02:30 PM
quote:
Pissed off people usually don't blame themselves.


Accountability went out the window a long time ago, for institutions and individuals.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/3/2010 at 02:33 PM
quote:
quote:
Pissed off people usually don't blame themselves.


Accountability went out the window a long time ago, for institutions and individuals.


That's very true, and goes to the root of most of the problems we face.

 

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