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Author: Subject: The Original Thanksgiving

Zen Peach





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  posted on 11/26/2010 at 05:46 AM
I have never heard this before. I thought Captn. John Smith and Pocohantas were in the version I heard about. Now I don't know what to think.

http://www.manataka.org/page269.html

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/26/2010 at 11:13 AM
gina, I think John Smith was in Virginia, and I've always thought the first Thanksgiving was in Massachusetts. But all I really knew was what I "learned" in school, with the friendly gathering to celebrate the harvest, and survival of "colonists," who I suppose could just as easily be called invaders. Here's one piece from your link. There is a whole lot more there. It will be interesting to do some more research to see how much of it is true. Is it possible that our history on this continent is one more of invasion, massacres, death, destruction, greed, pestilence, lies, dishonor, thievery, etc., than anything that could be called "American exceptional ism?"

quote:
THE

REAL

STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates



Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.


[Edited on 11/26/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/26/2010 at 03:19 PM
Mistakes, Lies & Misconceptions
about American Indian people

The Thanksgiving Myth

Let me begin by stating that thousands of years before the 'official'
Thanksgiving Day was proclaimed by Governor Winthrop of the
Massachussetts Bay Colony in 1637, North American Indigenous
people across the continent had celebrated seasons of Thanksgiving.
'Thanksgiving' is a very ancient concept to American Indian nations.
The big problem with the American Thanksgiving holiday is its false
association with American Indian people. The infamous 'Indians and
pilgrims' myth. It is good to celebrate Thanksgiving, to be thankful
for your blessings. It is not good to distort history, to falsely portray
the origin of this holiday and lie about the truth of its actual inception.
Here are some accurate historical facts about the true origin of this
American holiday that may interest you.........................................
'Thanksgiving' did not begin as a great loving relationship between the
pilgrims and the Wampanoag, Pequot and Narragansett people. In fact,
in October of 1621 when the 'pilgrim' survivors of their first winter in
Turtle Island sat down to share the first unofficial 'Thanksgiving' meal,
the Indians who were there were not even invited! There was no turkey,
squash, cranberry sauce or pumpkin pie. A few days before this alleged
feast took place, a company of 'pilgrims' led by Miles Standish actively
sought the head of a local Indian leader, and an 11 foot high wall was
erected around the entire Plymouth settlement for the very purpose of
keeping Indians out! Officially, the holiday we know as 'Thanksgiving'
actually came into existence in the year 1637. Governor Winthrop of the
Massachussetts Bay Colony proclaimed this first official day of Thanksgiving
and feasting to celebrate the return of the colony's men who had arrived
safely from what is now Mystic, Connecticut. They had gone there to
participate in the massacre of over 700 Pequot men, women and children,
and Mr. Winthrop decided to dedicate an official day of thanksgiving
complete with a feast to 'give thanks' for their great 'victory'....

As hard as it may be to conceive, this is the actual origin of our current
Thanksgiving Day holiday. Many American Indian people these days do
not observe this holiday, for obvious reasons. I see nothing wrong with
gathering with family to give thanks to our Creator for our blessings and
sharing a meal. I do, however, hope that Americans as a whole will one
day acknowledge the true origin of this holiday, and remember the pain,
loss, and agony of the Indigenous people who suffered at the hands of
the so-called 'pilgrims'. It is my hope that children's plays about 'the
first Thanksgiving', complete with Indians and pilgrims chumming at
the dinner table, will someday be a thing of the past. Why perpetuate
a lie? Let us face the truths of the past, and give thanks that we are
learning to love one another for the rich human diversity we share.

(Written by John Two-Hawks)

http://www.nativecircle.com/mlmThanksgivingmyth.html


 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2010 at 07:44 AM
And Gina and SCB are correct ,the myth taught in grade school is that just a myth...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2010 at 05:54 PM
Dayam....I didn't know about that....but I'm not surprised. Makes you wonder what other glorious tales of this country's history are lies.

 

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  posted on 11/28/2010 at 06:19 PM
Our schools are still teaching the big lie, and in churches and civic gatherings all over the country children perform skits and do crafts, all pertaining to the big lie.

I'm not going to Belize, but the more I learn about the history of this country, the more foolish I think we look when we try to tell others how to conduct themselves. Our country needs to let the rest of the world be, and have a serious dialog about how we got where we are, where we want to go, and how we are going to get their. Letting the "free market" and the quest for personal wealth dictate all these things hasn't worked. If we truly believe in justice, we have some accounting to do, as a nation, and as a a society.

 

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  posted on 11/28/2010 at 11:00 PM
quote:
Dayam....I didn't know about that....but I'm not surprised. Makes you wonder what other glorious tales of this country's history are lies.


It's kind of like Columbus discovered America, but people were already living here, so they ought to say he arrived in a new land, decided to screw Amerigo Vespucci who actually got here before he did (that's why our country is named America, to honor Americo Vespucci), and Columbus was part of the evil Templar Knights, the ones who have been searching for what Jesus buried years ago, which they believe gave him his power. Some of the digging under Temple Mount in Jerusalem is to try to find this item (some say it is a chalice, some say it is the Ark of the Covenant), but Muslim prophecy says they will not find it there. When they don't find it there, they will be looking elsewhere and eventually demolish the Kabaa in Saudi Arabia because it could be hidden under there.

That will set off a very large war because to demolish the holyh place that hundreds of millions of Muslims go to fulfill part of their required/obligatory pilgrimage for Islam, will cause them to rise up and nothing will stop them from going to Jerusalem to deal with the anti-Christ. Per Muslim prophecy, the anti-Christ is not allowed to enter the holy city of Makkah where the Kabaa is. He will not be able to get in there, but he will want to particularly when they don't find the Ark of the Covenant or Jesus's Chalice buried under Temple Mount.

History of the Kabaa:
The Ka`ba had first been constructed by the Prophet Adam. (of Adam and Eve). It was the first house built by man to worship Allah. Due to natural disasters, such as floods, fire, etc, the Kabaa was rebuilt by Prophet(s) Ibrahim, Ismail, and Muhammad (peace be upon them all). One of the pillars of Islam requires every capable Muslim to perform the Hajj pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime. Hajj involves pilgrims to walk seven times (Tawaf) around the Ka`ba in a counter-clockwise direction.



 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2010 at 11:49 PM
Yep there is a saying on the rez

"how did Columbus discover America when we were standing on the shore waving at him when he got here?"

 

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Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." -Henry Ford

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 12:27 AM
quote:
quote:
Yep there is a saying on the rez

"how did Columbus discover America when we were standing on the shore waving at him when he got here?"



You guys had a lousy P.R. department.


Yep we got the shaft..

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 01:59 AM
I don't think columbus ever set foot on mainland america. cuba and other carribean islands yes. did he torture, maim, enslave, kill, indiginous peoples of those places??, YES.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 02:13 AM
Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but how many people who think that Israel should give back land are ready to return their land to the American Indians? My guess is not many (if any)

And, this is not meant to diminish this thread - the atrocities the Native American;s endured are horrible. (I plead innocence - my ancestors were being tortured in Europe at the time)

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 04:18 AM
Interesting that the analogy equates Israel's taking of Palestinian lands with the way this country decimated the Native Americans.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 04:30 AM
quote:
Interesting that the analogy equates Israel's taking of Palestinian lands with the way this country decimated the Native Americans.


I think the history regarding Israel is much less clear cut than that involving the US and the Native Americans. An awful lot of people lay claim to that being "their" land; ownership over the centuries has shifted. Merely commenting that I don't hear anyone talking about giving their land back yet are quick to say that Israel should - and there is no dispute about how America was obtained.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 05:02 AM
quote:
I don't think columbus ever set foot on mainland america. cuba and other carribean islands yes. did he torture, maim, enslave, kill, indiginous peoples of those places??, YES.


Did torturing, maiming, enslaving and killimng exist in the Americas before Columbus rediscovered this part of the world??? Yes or no??

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 05:08 AM
Yeah, we know, Native Americans were vicious, bloodthirsty savages who killed and enslaved each other blah blah blah. Your point?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 05:25 AM
You live on Native American land right now, as we speak. What is the timeline for you giving it back to the appropriate tribe??

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 06:46 AM
quote:
quote:
I don't think columbus ever set foot on mainland america. cuba and other carribean islands yes. did he torture, maim, enslave, kill, indiginous peoples of those places??, YES.


Did torturing, maiming, enslaving and killimng exist in the Americas before Columbus rediscovered this part of the world??? Yes or no??
I dunno fletch, I wasnt living here yet.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 08:01 AM
quote:
You live on Native American land right now, as we speak. What is the timeline for you giving it back to the appropriate tribe??


Define Native American land. I know for a fact the land I live on used to be common hunting grounds. That would make it kind of hard to know who to give it to but for the record, the land we're living on has been in Johnny's family since the early 1800s. Nobody seems to have thrown the Native American's off the land and they owned it long before the trail of tears. So you tell me what the timeline would be and how one would go about finding an appropriate Native American to give it to.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 04:38 PM
quote:
quote:
Interesting that the analogy equates Israel's taking of Palestinian lands with the way this country decimated the Native Americans.


I think the history regarding Israel is much less clear cut than that involving the US and the Native Americans. An awful lot of people lay claim to that being "their" land; ownership over the centuries has shifted. Merely commenting that I don't hear anyone talking about giving their land back yet are quick to say that Israel should - and there is no dispute about how America was obtained.


Which brings up the topic of land 'ownership." Who on this planet has the right to "own" a piece of land, really? The native Americans knew you couldn't 'own" a piece of the Earth. The whole idea is really preposterous, and they knew that. Yet in our society, some of us "own" little pieces of the Earth, while others don't. Does it strike anyone else as funny that a human can really think they "own" a piece of a planet?

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 05:16 PM
I agree with SCB about the Native American's knowing you can't own the land...you can only occupy it for a while. I figure you can own the buildings on the property and people have figured out how to 'own' the mineral rights under the ground but in the grand scheme of things, we're not going to take any of it with us when we go.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 05:32 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Interesting that the analogy equates Israel's taking of Palestinian lands with the way this country decimated the Native Americans.


I think the history regarding Israel is much less clear cut than that involving the US and the Native Americans. An awful lot of people lay claim to that being "their" land; ownership over the centuries has shifted. Merely commenting that I don't hear anyone talking about giving their land back yet are quick to say that Israel should - and there is no dispute about how America was obtained.


Which brings up the topic of land 'ownership." Who on this planet has the right to "own" a piece of land, really? The native Americans knew you couldn't 'own" a piece of the Earth. The whole idea is really preposterous, and they knew that. Yet in our society, some of us "own" little pieces of the Earth, while others don't. Does it strike anyone else as funny that a human can really think they "own" a piece of a planet?


No. It does not. But then I am not Native American.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 06:23 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Interesting that the analogy equates Israel's taking of Palestinian lands with the way this country decimated the Native Americans.


I think the history regarding Israel is much less clear cut than that involving the US and the Native Americans. An awful lot of people lay claim to that being "their" land; ownership over the centuries has shifted. Merely commenting that I don't hear anyone talking about giving their land back yet are quick to say that Israel should - and there is no dispute about how America was obtained.


Which brings up the topic of land 'ownership." Who on this planet has the right to "own" a piece of land, really? The native Americans knew you couldn't 'own" a piece of the Earth. The whole idea is really preposterous, and they knew that. Yet in our society, some of us "own" little pieces of the Earth, while others don't. Does it strike anyone else as funny that a human can really think they "own" a piece of a planet?



The Native Americans were somewhat nomadic so land ownership was something unheard of. But if a rival tribe member hunted on their land, there would often be a violent reaction. They didn't own land per se, but they controlled the areas in which they lived.


Not all native Americans were nomadic. Some lived in towns that never moved. I've read a lot about Indian beliefs in my life, and never read where any thought you could own land. I'm also not so sure about the violent reaction to hunting parties, either. War parties, sure. But the Plains Indians, for sure, thought the white man's notion of owning land was ridiculous. The land owns itself, and only allows us to live on it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 06:57 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Interesting that the analogy equates Israel's taking of Palestinian lands with the way this country decimated the Native Americans.


I think the history regarding Israel is much less clear cut than that involving the US and the Native Americans. An awful lot of people lay claim to that being "their" land; ownership over the centuries has shifted. Merely commenting that I don't hear anyone talking about giving their land back yet are quick to say that Israel should - and there is no dispute about how America was obtained.


Which brings up the topic of land 'ownership." Who on this planet has the right to "own" a piece of land, really? The native Americans knew you couldn't 'own" a piece of the Earth. The whole idea is really preposterous, and they knew that. Yet in our society, some of us "own" little pieces of the Earth, while others don't. Does it strike anyone else as funny that a human can really think they "own" a piece of a planet?



The Native Americans were somewhat nomadic so land ownership was something unheard of. But if a rival tribe member hunted on their land, there would often be a violent reaction. They didn't own land per se, but they controlled the areas in which they lived.


Not all native Americans were nomadic. Some lived in towns that never moved. I've read a lot about Indian beliefs in my life, and never read where any thought you could own land. I'm also not so sure about the violent reaction to hunting parties, either. War parties, sure. But the Plains Indians, for sure, thought the white man's notion of owning land was ridiculous. The land owns itself, and only allows us to live on it.


It's definitely true that the Plains Indians did not have a concept of land ownership as the Western world does. Our concept of property ownership goes back to biblical times.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 07:00 PM
quote:
You live on Native American land right now, as we speak. What is the timeline for you giving it back to the appropriate tribe??


Can't. The people that originallly took it killed them all.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2010 at 07:08 PM
quote:
quote:
You live on Native American land right now, as we speak. What is the timeline for you giving it back to the appropriate tribe??


Can't. The people that originallly took it killed them all.


Good point.

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 
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