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Author: Subject: Who Has More Disposable Income?

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 11/22/2010 at 05:19 PM
Just heard this on local radio. I won't vouch for the numerical accuracy, as I'd like to see it verified from a more reputable source. But its interesting none the less....

quote:
In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year

Tonight's stunning financial piece de resistance comes from Wyatt Emerich of The Cleveland Current. In what is sure to inspire some serious ire among all those who once believed Ronald Reagan that it was the USSR that was the "Evil Empire", Emmerich analyzes disposable income and economic benefits among several key income classes and comes to the stunning (and verifiable) conclusion that "a one-parent family of three making $14,500 a year (minimum wage) has more disposable income than a family making $60,000 a year." And that excludes benefits from Supplemental Security Income disability checks. America is now a country which punishes those middle-class people who not only try to work hard, but avoid scamming the system. Not surprisingly, it is not only the richest and most audacious thieves that prosper - it is also the penny scammers at the very bottom of the economic ladder that rip off the middle class each and every day, courtesy of the world's most generous entitlement system. Perhaps if Reagan were alive today, he would wish to modify the object of his once legendary remark.

From Emmerich:



Stunning? Just do it yourself.

quote:
Almost all welfare programs have Web sites where you can call up "benefits calculators." Just plug in your income and family size and, presto, your benefits are automatically calculated.

The chart is quite revealing. A one-parent family of three making $14,500 a year (minimum wage) has more disposable income than a family making $60,000 a year.
And if that wasn't enough, here is one that will blow your mind:

quote:
If the family provider works only one week a month at minimum wage, he or she makes 92 percent as much as a provider grossing $60,000 a year.
Ever wonder why Obama was so focused on health reform? It is so those who have no interest or ability in working, make as much as representatives of America's once exalted, and now merely endangered, middle class.

quote:
First of all, working one week a month, saves big-time on child care. But the real big-ticket item is Medicaid, which has minimal deductibles and co-pays. By working only one week a month at a minimum wage job, a provider is able to get total medical coverage for next to nothing.

Compare this to the family provider making $60,000 a year. A typical Mississippi family coverage would cost around $12,000, adding deductibles and co-pays adds an additional $4,500 or so to the bill. That's a huge hit.

There is a reason why a full time worker may not be too excited to learn there is little to show for doing the "right thing."

quote:
The full-time $60,000-a-year job is going to be much more demanding than working one week a month at minimum wage. Presumably, the low-income parent will have more energy to attend to the various stresses of managing a household.
It gets even scarier if one assumes a little dishonesty is thrown in the equation.

quote:
If the one-week-a-month worker maintains an unreported cash-only job on the side, the deal gets better than a regular $60,000-a-year job. In this scenario, you maintain a reportable, payroll deductible, low-income job for federal tax purposes. This allows you to easily establish your qualification for all these welfare programs. Then your black-market job gives you additional cash without interfering with your benefits. Some economists estimate there is one trillion in unreported income each year in the United States.

This really got me thinking. Just how much money could I get if I set out to deliberately scam the system? I soon realized that getting a low-paying minimum wage job would set the stage for far more welfare benefits than you could earn in a real job, if you were willing to cheat. Even if you didn't cheat, you could do almost as well working one week a month at minimum wage than busting a gut at a $60,000-a-year job.

Now where it gets plainly out of control is if one throws in Supplemental Security Income.

quote:
SSI pays $8,088 per year for each "disabled" family member. A person can be deemed "disabled" if thy are totally lacking in the cultural and educational skills needed to be employable in the workforce.

If you add $24,262 a year for three disability checks, the lowest paid welfare family would now have far more take-home income than the $60,000-a-year family.

Best of all: being on welfare does not judge you if you are stupid enough not to take drugs all day, every day to make some sense out of this Mephistophelian tragicomedy known as living in the USA:

quote:
Most private workplaces require drug testing, but there is no drug testing to get welfare checks.
Alas, on America's way to to communist welfare, it has long since surpassed such bastions of capitalism as China:

quote:
The welfare system in communist China is far stingier. Those people have to work to eat.
We have been writing for over a year, how the very top of America's social order steals from the middle class each and every day. Now we finally know that the very bottom of the entitlement food chain also makes out like a bandit compared to that idiot American who actually works and pays their taxes. One can only also hope that in addition to seeing their disposable income be eaten away by a kleptocratic entitlement state, that the disappearing middle class is also selling off its weaponry. Because if it isn't, and if it finally decides it has had enough, the outcome will not be surprising at all: it will be the same old that has occurred in virtually every revolution in the history of the world to date.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitlement-america-head-household-making- minimum-wage-has-more-disposable-income-family-mak



 
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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/22/2010 at 05:34 PM
Two points on this spectacular failure of an article: the Cleveland Current is actually Cleveland, Mississippi, which I find kind of funny. Also, the author seems to suggest that food stamps, medicare and rent subsidies et al somehow qualify as disposable income, when in fact an economic layman like myself understands enough to know that is not the case.

On it's face, this is a laughable notion, one that can be debunked by taking even 10 seconds to consider the author's methodology (or lack thereof). But hey, why not just post a bunch of outrageous lies and then hedge your bets with a bogus disclaimer at the top? Sorry but if you're posting this, you're vouching for it, unless you posted it to have a shared laugh at the insane suggestion that people on welfare have cash to burn, and the even more fantastically insane implication that we'd be better served if people who are out of work simply starved to death, as they do in China.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2010 at 05:37 PM
quote:
Two points on this spectacular failure of an article: the Cleveland Current is actually Cleveland, Mississippi, which I find kind of funny. Also, the author seems to suggest that food stamps, medicare and rent subsidies et al somehow qualify as disposable income, when in fact an economic layman like myself understands enough to know that is not the case.

On it's face, this is a laughable notion, one that can be debunked by taking even 10 seconds to consider the author's methodology (or lack thereof). But hey, why not just post a bunch of outrageous lies and then hedge your bets with a bogus disclaimer at the top? Sorry but if you're posting this, you're vouching for it, unless you posted it to have a shared laugh at the insane suggestion that people on welfare have cash to burn, and the even more fantastically insane implication that we'd be better served if people who are out of work simply starved to death, as they do in China.


So, WTF is your point? Did you make one?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/22/2010 at 06:21 PM
quote:
quote:
Two points on this spectacular failure of an article: the Cleveland Current is actually Cleveland, Mississippi, which I find kind of funny. Also, the author seems to suggest that food stamps, medicare and rent subsidies et al somehow qualify as disposable income, when in fact an economic layman like myself understands enough to know that is not the case.

On it's face, this is a laughable notion, one that can be debunked by taking even 10 seconds to consider the author's methodology (or lack thereof). But hey, why not just post a bunch of outrageous lies and then hedge your bets with a bogus disclaimer at the top? Sorry but if you're posting this, you're vouching for it, unless you posted it to have a shared laugh at the insane suggestion that people on welfare have cash to burn, and the even more fantastically insane implication that we'd be better served if people who are out of work simply starved to death, as they do in China.


So, WTF is your point? Did you make one?


Yes, my point is that it's a stupid article based on a false premise, seeking to trick people into ignoring the very real plight of poverty in this country, written by a racist from a podunk town with either no grasp on economics, or a very firm grasp on penning heinous screeds based purely on lies.

 

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  posted on 11/22/2010 at 06:45 PM
I love the way they count intangibes for the minimum wage earner......subtract the taxes and see what's left. I'll take the 60K over minimum wage any time. Cool how the chart is trying to make poverty wages seem good.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2010 at 07:49 PM
quote:
Medicaid is not disposable income. Neither is the school lunch program unless you have kids in school.
I think that's real flaw Otie. Calling this stuff "disposable income" abuses the definition of that term. Perhaps better said; services provided or afforded. Also left unsaid is whether that person with the $60k job has health care insurance from their employer. If so, that's probably another $6-8k+/yr on their side of the ledger.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 09:01 AM
quote:
written by a racist from a podunk town


How do you know the person is a racist, because they are from a Podunk town in MS? Are all people from podunk towns racists?


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 09:53 AM
And here I though multiple ids were declared a no-no these days.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 09:59 AM
Wow.

This article is just, well, absolutely, positively, unquestionably, without a doubt...

...one way of looking at it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:01 PM
If you subtract the figures in red from the amount of income for all of them there's no way there's enough disposable money left for the first two incomes to even pay to park much less raise two kids. It's a very slanted bit of information trying to show that we really don't have poor people in this country with the added benefit of turning the higher wage earners against people who don't make as much. It's about creating new 'victims' and I don't see much reason for it.

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:07 PM
child labor.

it's what our country needs. look at kids these days, walking around aimlessly, twittering and tweeting each other.

put em to work, 16 hours a day, so we don't have to import everything.

that's one grumpy man's opinion.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:12 PM
quote:
If you subtract the figures in red from the amount of income for all of them there's no way there's enough disposable money left for the first two incomes to even pay to park much less raise two kids. It's a very slanted bit of information trying to show that we really don't have poor people in this country with the added benefit of turning the higher wage earners against people who don't make as much. It's about creating new 'victims' and I don't see much reason for it.
Politicians already have their hands full pandering to one set of victims, let's not encourage competition for top honors in victimhood.

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:22 PM
Having spent time in Mississippi, I frankly find it sickening that someone would make the case that someone making $60,000 a year is in worse shape than someone working one week a month for minimum wage. Talk about trying to start a class warfare. This is the same kind of stupid sh*t, like that quiz on economics that proved liberals are dumber than rocks, that people will be arguing over while our entire economy goes down toilet.

If this is true, then we should be hearing soon about all the people in Mississippi making $60,000 a year asking for big cuts in pay. So they'll have more disposable income.

What the f*ck is "disposable" income anyway? Money that you throw away?

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:23 PM
quote:
If this is true, then we should be hearing soon about all the people in Mississippi making $60,000 a year asking for big cuts in pay. So they'll have more disposable income.


I'd bet all those folks on minimum wage living high on that hog would trade places with the $60k a year guy in a heartbeat.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:33 PM
What the chart isn't taking into consideration are the tax breaks people earning more money have availabe. They have mortgage interest they can deduct to name one. Someone making minimum wage probably isn't going to own a house. I just love it when people make stupid points with wrong figures.

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:40 PM
It's the point they are trying to make that I find so offensive. I honestly look forward to the day when those who never get their hands dirty are standing on the side of the road with signs that say "Anything Helps." Many, many Americans have had it very easy at the expense of those who do the real work in this country. The working class has put up with it for a long time, because they get a few scraps and an occasional trip to Disney World. But if the managers keep coming up with silly sh*t like this, they risk biting the hand that feeds them. Mark my words, the very ones trying to stir up the pissed off, out of work, everyday Americans with this kind of crazy stuff is going to regret getting them riled up.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:44 PM
quote:
It's the point they are trying to make that I find so offensive. I honestly look forward to the day when those who never get their hands dirty are standing on the side of the road with signs that say "Anything Helps." Many, many Americans have had it very easy at the expense of those who do the real work in this country. The working class has put up with it for a long time, because they get a few scraps and an occasional trip to Disney World. But if the managers keep coming up with silly sh*t like this, they risk biting the hand that feeds them. Mark my words, the very ones trying to stir up the pissed off, out of work, everyday Americans with this kind of crazy stuff is going to regret getting them riled up.


So, how much did you pay in taxes this year compared to the people who don't get their hands dirty?

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:46 PM
quote:
child labor.

it's what our country needs. look at kids these days, walking around aimlessly, twittering and tweeting each other.

put em to work, 16 hours a day, so we don't have to import everything.

that's one grumpy man's opinion.

As a grandfather of five young boys I have to tell you.....your idea makes a lot of sense to me.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:49 PM
quote:
quote:
written by a racist from a podunk town


How do you know the person is a racist, because they are from a Podunk town in MS? Are all people from podunk towns racists?




The real question would be toward his/her own grasp on economics. It is glaringly rudimentary at best.

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 12:56 PM
quote:
quote:
It's the point they are trying to make that I find so offensive. I honestly look forward to the day when those who never get their hands dirty are standing on the side of the road with signs that say "Anything Helps." Many, many Americans have had it very easy at the expense of those who do the real work in this country. The working class has put up with it for a long time, because they get a few scraps and an occasional trip to Disney World. But if the managers keep coming up with silly sh*t like this, they risk biting the hand that feeds them. Mark my words, the very ones trying to stir up the pissed off, out of work, everyday Americans with this kind of crazy stuff is going to regret getting them riled up.


So, how much did you pay in taxes this year compared to the people who don't get their hands dirty?


None. I stopped paying federal income tax in 2005. I live on the black market economy, and have never taken a penny in any kind of government assistance. I pay sales tax. If the government ever asks me to appear in court to explain why I will no longer pay a tax on my labor, I'll be happy to do so.

Who the f*ck are you, asking me how much tax I pay, anyway? How much do you pay, Woods, on the income you earn watching the grass grow? Drawing a paycheck when there is no work to do is sort of like welfare, isn't it? How do you feel about that?

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 01:04 PM
quote:
None. I stopped paying federal income tax in 2005. If the government ever asks me to appear in court to explain why I will no longer pay a tax on my labor, I'll be happy to do so.


What explanation would you give the court or an IRS agemt if they asked you?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 01:17 PM
quote:
quote:
None. I stopped paying federal income tax in 2005. If the government ever asks me to appear in court to explain why I will no longer pay a tax on my labor, I'll be happy to do so.


What explanation would you give the court or an IRS agemt if they asked you?




The same I've given here. I spent nearly 40 years paying tax on my labor, money that could I have used far better than the government has. In the meantime, my industry has been destroyed by the same interests that are destroying all working class jobs in this country. I'm not paying any more. They got all they are getting from me. It's that simple. In return, I don't apply for any government assistance, much of which I am eligible for. They can keep the money I already gave them, and we'll call it even.

 

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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 01:23 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
None. I stopped paying federal income tax in 2005. If the government ever asks me to appear in court to explain why I will no longer pay a tax on my labor, I'll be happy to do so.


What explanation would you give the court or an IRS agemt if they asked you?




The same I've given here. I spent nearly 40 years paying tax on my labor, money that could I have used far better than the government has. In the meantime, my industry has been destroyed by the same interests that are destroying all working class jobs in this country. I'm not paying any more. They got all they are getting from me. It's that simple. In return, I don't apply for any government assistance, much of which I am eligible for. They can keep the money I already gave them, and we'll call it even.


Works for me. I was just curious.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 01:38 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
It's the point they are trying to make that I find so offensive. I honestly look forward to the day when those who never get their hands dirty are standing on the side of the road with signs that say "Anything Helps." Many, many Americans have had it very easy at the expense of those who do the real work in this country. The working class has put up with it for a long time, because they get a few scraps and an occasional trip to Disney World. But if the managers keep coming up with silly sh*t like this, they risk biting the hand that feeds them. Mark my words, the very ones trying to stir up the pissed off, out of work, everyday Americans with this kind of crazy stuff is going to regret getting them riled up.


So, how much did you pay in taxes this year compared to the people who don't get their hands dirty?


None. I stopped paying federal income tax in 2005. I live on the black market economy, and have never taken a penny in any kind of government assistance. I pay sales tax. If the government ever asks me to appear in court to explain why I will no longer pay a tax on my labor, I'll be happy to do so.

Who the f*ck are you, asking me how much tax I pay, anyway? How much do you pay, Woods, on the income you earn watching the grass grow? Drawing a paycheck when there is no work to do is sort of like welfare, isn't it? How do you feel about that?




I can't see any grass from where I sit. And, you make a lot of assumptions regarding how much work I do. I feel fine.

It's a valid question, being that I am a net payer to the system.

And you pretty much answered more than I expected. Kind of have a hard time keepin your mouth shut?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/23/2010 at 01:39 PM
quote:
quote:
If this is true, then we should be hearing soon about all the people in Mississippi making $60,000 a year asking for big cuts in pay. So they'll have more disposable income.


I'd bet all those folks on minimum wage living high on that hog would trade places with the $60k a year guy in a heartbeat.


X2 - dead on.

 

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