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Author: Subject: Brigitte Gabriel and American Congress for Truth

Zen Peach





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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 07:46 AM
Is anyone familar with this woman?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel

Here's a pretty powerful 45 minute interview with her done in 2004, and it's a real eye opener from someone who grew up in the Arab world as a Christian and has been through hell and come back.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3928169851397891989#

Her organization, American Congress for Truth (ACT)

http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/welcome-to-act-for-america

[Edited on 8/24/2010 by BigDaveOnBass]

[Edited on 8/24/2010 by BigDaveOnBass]

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 01:06 PM
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 02:34 PM
Luke, we all know how much you hate Muslims. We got it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 02:52 PM
quote:
Luke, we all know how much you hate Muslims. We got it.
I don't think Ms. Gabriel hates Muslims as much as she hates jihad and jihadists. As a person who has lived through and survived terrorism as she has, her words carry a fair amount of credibility, IMO.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 02:58 PM
quote:
quote:
Luke, we all know how much you hate Muslims. We got it.
I don't think Ms. Gabriel hates Muslims as much as she hates jihad and jihadists. As a person who has lived through and survived terrorism as she has, her words carry a fair amount of credibility, IMO.


I don't think so, myself. I've heard her before, and from the Wiki article...

quote:
Gabriel is critical of Islam and believes that "the degraded state of Arab societies is caused by Islam",[1] and that Arab Muslims are "lagging behind" because of social and religious values.[2] She considers "Islamic terrorists" simply as devout followers of Islam,[5] following an example set by Muhammad's behavior.


quote:
Gabriel also used to tell audiences that Hizbullah was the group that terrorised her family for the seven years between 1975 and 1982. She stopped making this claim after people objected, pointing out that Hizbullah was formed after she left Lebanon, as a direct result of the Israeli invasion and occupation of 1982.[11]




quote:
"The difference, my friends, between Israel and the Arab world is the difference between civilization and barbarism. It's the difference between good and evil [applause].... this is what we're witnessing in the Arabic world, They have no SOUL !, they are dead set on killing and destruction. And in the name of something they call "Allah" which is very different from the God we believe....[applause] because our God is the God of love."



I'd say she's got a problem with Muslims as a whole.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 03:05 PM
quote:
I'd say she's got a problem with Muslims as a whole.
Having "a problem" with Muslims isn't necessarily the same as hating them. She's a Lebanese Christian. Doesn't that go against the teachings of Christ?

Matthew 5:44
but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 03:08 PM
Dave, I'm reading the things she has said. Calling the entire Arab world barbarians is a show of love?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 03:13 PM
quote:
Dave, I'm reading the things she has said. Calling the entire Arab world barbarians is a show of love?
I don't see the word "hate" in there.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 03:21 PM
I'm listening to the interview Dave linked to right now. Wow, that's quite a set of experiences she had growing up.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 03:23 PM
I'm reading a lot of other things she has said, and for the things she has experienced that give her credibility, there's holes in that credibility.

She sounds to me no different than the Muslim extremists who say vile things about Jews.

Apparently, she once said...

quote:
"Every practicing Muslim is a radical Muslim.


OK, she didn't say hate. Does she have to?

Besides, I was originally referring to Luke.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 06:25 PM
Simple question - in the paradises known as Muslim-run countries, what happens to Muslims who choose to convert to another religion??

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2010 at 06:35 PM
quote:
Simple question - in the paradises known as Muslim-run countries, what happens to Muslims who choose to convert to another religion??


Why does it matter? Are you planning on moving to one of them?

 

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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 09:12 AM
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 10:43 AM
quote:
quote:
Simple question - in the paradises known as Muslim-run countries, what happens to Muslims who choose to convert to another religion??
Why does it matter? Are you planning on moving to one of them?
I think it does matter. If you renounce Islam, you are killed in a very degrading way.

The big problem with these countries is they don't recognize that, as human beings, we have basic human rights to live life on our own terms and worship as we see fit. Bhawk mentioned earlier that Brigitte Gabriel called the Arab world "barbarians." The religious oppression that occurs under Shariah law in these countries IS barbaric...and that makes those who participate in it barbarians. I don't believe ALL Muslims are barbarians, but the brutality that is displayed under Shariah law is deplorable, and there should be some sort of law preventing murder and acts of brutality. Of course, I doubt we'll ever see that in the middle east. They don't know any different.

 

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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 11:00 AM
quote:
quote:
Simple question - in the paradises known as Muslim-run countries, what happens to Muslims who choose to convert to another religion??


Why does it matter? Are you planning on moving to one of them?


It certainly doesn't matter to a guy like Derek who has supported spending American blood and money to create one of those countries.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 11:11 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Simple question - in the paradises known as Muslim-run countries, what happens to Muslims who choose to convert to another religion??
Why does it matter? Are you planning on moving to one of them?
I think it does matter. If you renounce Islam, you are killed in a very degrading way.

The big problem with these countries is they don't recognize that, as human beings, we have basic human rights to live life on our own terms and worship as we see fit. Bhawk mentioned earlier that Brigitte Gabriel called the Arab world "barbarians." The religious oppression that occurs under Shariah law in these countries IS barbaric...and that makes those who participate in it barbarians. I don't believe ALL Muslims are barbarians, but the brutality that is displayed under Shariah law is deplorable, and there should be some sort of law preventing murder and acts of brutality. Of course, I doubt we'll ever see that in the middle east. They don't know any different.


The only thing is that I don't see Brigitte Gabriel being as specific as you are.

Take this map of the Muslim World...



Dark green - Islamic State: Adopted Islam as the ideological foundation for their political institution.
Light green - State Religion: Religious body or creed officially endorsed by the state.
Blue - Secular State: Officially neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religions.
Orange - No Declaration: No announcement formally or officially.

Then a map of countries with different levels of Sharia law...



Point being, it is reckless, IMO, to make the kind of blanket statements Gabriel does. The world is not that simple. Hell, a lot of the time I make reckless statements about conservatives when "discussing" things here, and I'm wrong about doing that too.

[Edited on 8/25/2010 by Bhawk]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 11:18 AM
quote:


The big problem with these countries is they don't recognize that, as human beings, we have basic human rights to live life on our own terms and worship as we see fit.


Lots of people don't recognize that right. Right here in this country. And just a few generations ago, Christians forced their religion on the indigenous peoples, while murdering them as part of the package. I'd say Islam is about 120 years behind Christianity. That gives them lots of time to catch up. It will take a lot of murdering, plundering, and enslavement to do it. But when God is on your side, anything is possible.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 11:37 AM
quote:
I think it does matter. If you renounce Islam, you are killed in a very degrading way.


Ok, this isnt happening here in America so Im not sure why this particular tangent is being entertained. If its just a thing about hating Muslims, lets get that out in the open so we all know where we stand.

quote:
The big problem with these countries is they don't recognize that, as human beings, we have basic human rights to live life on our own terms and worship as we see fit. Bhawk mentioned earlier that Brigitte Gabriel called the Arab world "barbarians." The religious oppression that occurs under Shariah law in these countries IS barbaric...and that makes those who participate in it barbarians.


Well the problem with people like Gabriel is that she cant differentiate between mainstream Muslims that are by and large good people and the radical freaks that are the problem.

quote:
I don't believe ALL Muslims are barbarians, but the brutality that is displayed under Shariah law is deplorable, and there should be some sort of law preventing murder and acts of brutality. Of course, I doubt we'll ever see that in the middle east. They don't know any different.


Well the reality is that no matter how horrible WE think it is, the people that willingly live under Sharia rule are going to have to be the ones to change things should they want them changed. Its not our job to go around inflicting Christianity on others and decrying their religious choices, especially considering the astronomical body count that Christianity is responsible for.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 11:53 AM
quote:

Well the problem with people like Gabriel is that she cant differentiate between mainstream Muslims that are by and large good people and the radical freaks that are the problem.



"And just a few generations ago, Christians forced their religion on the indigenous peoples, while murdering them as part of the package."


"....especially considering the astronomical body count that Christianity is responsible for."

It sounds like the impication is that Christains and Christianity are fundamentally different than Muslims and Islam. Or are you applying a different standard?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 12:13 PM
quote:
quote:
I think it does matter. If you renounce Islam, you are killed in a very degrading way.
Ok, this isnt happening here in America so Im not sure why this particular tangent is being entertained. If its just a thing about hating Muslims, lets get that out in the open so we all know where we stand.
Of course it's not happening here. I wasn't talking about America. I'm talking about the middle east.

 

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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 12:54 PM
It hasn't happened here in at least a hundred years.

One thing Christians seem to forget is that the rest of the world knows that they think they have an "in" with God that the rest of us don't have. Christians think they are all going to Heaven, to live at God's right hand, singing His praises for all eternity, while the rest of us burn forever and ever in Hell.

And since I'm "bashing" Christianity, I might as well point out that every single "humanitarian" mission that Christians go on is a proselytizing mission, whether they want to admit it or not. I've been in meetings before mission trips and other functions, where it was discussed that we won't say anything at all about Jesus...we'll just let what we are doing be our "testimony." Christians want to see their religion spread from one end of this earth to the other, and they are working to do that. Because they think it is the right thing to do, they are blind to how it comes off to people who don't believe what they believe, and never will.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 01:10 PM
quote:
quote:
It hasn't happened here in at least a hundred years.

One thing Christians seem to forget is that the rest of the world knows that they think they have an "in" with God that the rest of us don't have. Christians think they are all going to Heaven, to live at God's right hand, singing His praises for all eternity, while the rest of us burn forever and ever in Hell.

And since I'm "bashing" Christianity, I might as well point out that every single "humanitarian" mission that Christians go on is a proselytizing mission, whether they want to admit it or not. I've been in meetings before mission trips and other functions, where it was discussed that we won't say anything at all about Jesus...we'll just let what we are doing be our "testimony." Christians want to see their religion spread from one end of this earth to the other, and they are working to do that. Because they think it is the right thing to do, they are blind to how it comes off to people who don't believe what they believe, and never will.


Your belief that Christians think they have an "in" with God and are all going to heaven is both stereotyping and wrong. Where I will grant that there are some people who believe that in every religion, to paint an entire faith with that brush is just flat out inaccurate.


Are you a Christian, John? You obviously don't know what the religion is based on. Show me where I'm wrong.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 01:35 PM
quote:
It hasn't happened here in at least a hundred years.

One thing Christians seem to forget is that the rest of the world knows that they think they have an "in" with God that the rest of us don't have. Christians think they are all going to Heaven, to live at God's right hand, singing His praises for all eternity, while the rest of us burn forever and ever in Hell.

And since I'm "bashing" Christianity, I might as well point out that every single "humanitarian" mission that Christians go on is a proselytizing mission, whether they want to admit it or not. I've been in meetings before mission trips and other functions, where it was discussed that we won't say anything at all about Jesus...we'll just let what we are doing be our "testimony." Christians want to see their religion spread from one end of this earth to the other, and they are working to do that. Because they think it is the right thing to do, they are blind to how it comes off to people who don't believe what they believe, and never will.
Well, that may be true, to a degree, but if they reject the message of Jesus, we aren't going to kill them for it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 01:50 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It hasn't happened here in at least a hundred years.

One thing Christians seem to forget is that the rest of the world knows that they think they have an "in" with God that the rest of us don't have. Christians think they are all going to Heaven, to live at God's right hand, singing His praises for all eternity, while the rest of us burn forever and ever in Hell.

And since I'm "bashing" Christianity, I might as well point out that every single "humanitarian" mission that Christians go on is a proselytizing mission, whether they want to admit it or not. I've been in meetings before mission trips and other functions, where it was discussed that we won't say anything at all about Jesus...we'll just let what we are doing be our "testimony." Christians want to see their religion spread from one end of this earth to the other, and they are working to do that. Because they think it is the right thing to do, they are blind to how it comes off to people who don't believe what they believe, and never will.


Your belief that Christians think they have an "in" with God and are all going to heaven is both stereotyping and wrong. Where I will grant that there are some people who believe that in every religion, to paint an entire faith with that brush is just flat out inaccurate.


Are you a Christian, John? You obviously don't know what the religion is based on. Show me where I'm wrong.


Yes I am a Christian. The Christians that I know would reject what you say. Please show me where that is taught or believed. As I said, individuals may believe that, but it is not what any Christian religion teaches.


You've obviously never been to an evangelical church. You're in way over your head here, John. Exactly what is your religion based on? If it is not salvation through, Jesus Christ, you aren't a Christian.

Btw, many Christians don't consider Catholics to be Christians at all.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2010 at 02:01 PM
WHich really goes hand in hand with this post:

quote:
quote:

Well the problem with people like Gabriel is that she cant differentiate between mainstream Muslims that are by and large good people and the radical freaks that are the problem.



"And just a few generations ago, Christians forced their religion on the indigenous peoples, while murdering them as part of the package."


"....especially considering the astronomical body count that Christianity is responsible for."

It sounds like the impication is that Christains and Christianity are fundamentally different than Muslims and Islam. Or are you applying a different standard?


 

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