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Author: Subject: Muslim Prayer in the Pentagon

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 12:07 PM
I wonder why there is no controversy here? Follow the link for the full story...

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/pentagon-muslims-pray-day-protests/

At Pentagon, Muslims pray every day without protests

By Agence France-Presse
Saturday, August 21st, 2010 -- 8:43 am

But Air Force officer -- who asks not to be named -- tells AFP she worries how families of victims might see it

Without controversy or protests, Muslims kneel in prayer every day at a quiet Pentagon chapel, only steps away from where a hijacked airliner struck the building on September 11, 2001.

The tranquil atmosphere at the Pentagon is a stark contrast to the furor surrounding a planned mosque near Ground Zero in New York, with opponents arguing the proposed Islamic center is an insult to the memory of the 3,000 victims of the 9/11 attacks.

"I've been here almost four years and I've never head of any complaints," US Army spokesman George Wright said of the regular Muslim services.

Families of those killed in the attack on the Pentagon on 9/11 have not raised objections over the Islamic services, he said.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 12:15 PM
Because the U.S. is NOT filled with anti-Muslim bigots and the controversy over Ground Zero is not being caused by anti-Muslim bigotry but there are other reasons as has been discussed.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 10:00 PM
why should anyone object?

Freedom of religion extends to all faiths.

 

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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 10:11 PM
quote:
Because the U.S. is NOT filled with anti-Muslim bigots and the controversy over Ground Zero is not being caused by anti-Muslim bigotry but there are other reasons as has been discussed.


I firmly believe if you strip away all the 'reasonable' arguements and opposition to the project it still comes down to Muslim bigotry. If not, then people would understand that the actions of a few don't reflect the entire Muslim population and there would be no difference between the Muslim community center and a Christian one.

 

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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 10:24 PM
Why is it so hard for people to believe that it isn't soley about Bigotry? If the Muslim leaders truly expect the American people to believe that they only want to build the mosque in an effort to promote peace and healing; why hasn't one of their leaders stepped up and said; ok in the true sprit of healing and peace we should find another location. It's obvious that it's a divisive issue and it certainly isn't promoting peace or healing anything. Legal rights aside, nobody is arguing that point.








[Edited on 8/22/2010 by er1016]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 10:38 PM
objection to the mosque is the same thinking that got a Sihk killed in texas.

If one can't see the difference between Radical Islam Terrorism and mainstream Islam, then it is bigotry and ignorance.

and clearly don't give a hoot for the constitutional rights of freedom of religion and freedom assembly.


unless it's their own religion. sad.






[Edited on 8/22/2010 by spacemonkey]

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 10:47 PM
quote:
object to the mosque is the same thinking that got a Sihk killed in texas.

I know nothing about this; so I can't answer.

If one can't see the difference between Radical Islam Terrorism and mainstream Islam, then it is bigotry and ignorance.

personal opinion.

and clearly don't give a hoot for the constitutional rights of freedom of religion and freedom assembly. Constitutional rights isn't at issue. Those are a given.


unless it's their own religion. sad. My religion has nothing to do with this.

Still doesnt answer the question; If the Muslim leaders truly expect the American people to believe that they only want to build the mosque in an effort to promote peace and healing; why hasn't one of their leaders stepped up and said; ok in the true sprit of healing and peace we should find another location.




 

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  posted on 8/21/2010 at 10:54 PM
quote:
Still doesnt answer the question; If the Muslim leaders truly expect the American people to believe that they only want to build the mosque in an effort to promote peace and healing; why hasn't one of their leaders stepped up and said; ok in the true sprit of healing and peace we should find another location.





They should not have to, if we truly want to have freedom of religion.

There was a Sihk working in a store that was killed in Texas, local rednecks though he was a Muslim.
that kind of thinking. Emotional not rational.


This is how it is: In order to have true freedom, you have to put up with some things that might upset some people.



[Edited on 8/22/2010 by spacemonkey]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:19 AM
well said.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 10:58 AM
quote:
Why is it so hard for people to believe that it isn't soley about Bigotry?


They know it's primarily a location issue, but see it as another opportunity to try and denegrate political opponents.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 11:08 AM
quote:
quote:
Why is it so hard for people to believe that it isn't soley about Bigotry?


They know it's primarily a location issue,


This has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read.

I think one thing we all have to accept is that there are some concepts our individual brains are not capable of understanding. Racists and bigots obviously don't understand what it is about them that makes them racists or bigots, and will plead innocent for their entire lives, unless there is a spiritual or mental breakthrough of some sort. Just like me and trigonometry. It makes my head hurt to think about it, so I don't, and live without it. Others can't wrap their heads around the notion that other people's actions only affect them if they choose to allow them to. So they carry on as if the location of a building has any bearing whatsoever on their lives. And it does, because they want it to.

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]

 

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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 11:46 AM
quote:
quote:
Still doesnt answer the question; If the Muslim leaders truly expect the American people to believe that they only want to build the mosque in an effort to promote peace and healing; why hasn't one of their leaders stepped up and said; ok in the true sprit of healing and peace we should find another location.





They should not have to, if we truly want to have freedom of religion.



This is how it is: In order to have true freedom, you have to put up with some things that might upset some people.

They might not have to answer the question; however if that is the explanation you are putting forth you should have anticipated the question and have an answer. If you are truly sincere about wanting to promote peace and harmony you first have to understand and respect the culture in which you are working. And be willing to give a little in order to promote peace.. How can you expect tolerance and understanding when you aren’t willing to recuperate?

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by spacemonkey]

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 11:48 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Why is it so hard for people to believe that it isn't soley about Bigotry?


They know it's primarily a location issue,


This has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read.

I think one thing we all have to accept is that there are some concepts our individual brains are not capable of understanding. Racists and bigots obviously don't understand what it is about them that makes them racists or bigots, and will plead innocent for their entire lives, unless there is a spiritual or mental breakthrough of some sort. Just like me and trigonometry. It makes my head hurt to think about it, so I don't, and live without it. Others can't wrap their heads around the notion that other people's actions only affect them if they choose to allow them to. So they carry on as if the location of a building has any bearing whatsoever on their lives. And it does, because they want it to.

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]


It is a location issue and if it had happen at any other point in time rather than right before the midterm elections I would venture to guess that it would not be generating as much debate as it has. But given the current political climate it is being used as fodder by both sides. Just another way of distracting from the real issues…… One side doesn’t want to own up to their ineptness and the other don’t have any productive solutions to the real problems…

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 11:55 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Why is it so hard for people to believe that it isn't soley about Bigotry?


They know it's primarily a location issue,


This has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read.

I think one thing we all have to accept is that there are some concepts our individual brains are not capable of understanding. Racists and bigots obviously don't understand what it is about them that makes them racists or bigots, and will plead innocent for their entire lives, unless there is a spiritual or mental breakthrough of some sort. Just like me and trigonometry. It makes my head hurt to think about it, so I don't, and live without it. Others can't wrap their heads around the notion that other people's actions only affect them if they choose to allow them to. So they carry on as if the location of a building has any bearing whatsoever on their lives. And it does, because they want it to.

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]


It is a location issue and if it had happen at any other point in time rather than right before the midterm elections I would venture to guess that it would not be generating as much debate as it has. But given the current political climate it is being used as fodder by both sides. Just another way of distracting from the real issues…… One side doesn’t want to own up to their ineptness and the other don’t have any productive solutions to the real problems…


This is true. So the proper reaction is to ignore what is clearly a zoning issue in another city in another state, and end this discussion entirely. The only ones who even need to think about it are those who want to indulge their feelings of victimhood by allowing a building to dictate their state of mind. The rest of us don't even need to think about it, as it has zero effect on us.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:01 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Why is it so hard for people to believe that it isn't soley about Bigotry?


They know it's primarily a location issue,


This has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read.

I think one thing we all have to accept is that there are some concepts our individual brains are not capable of understanding. Racists and bigots obviously don't understand what it is about them that makes them racists or bigots, and will plead innocent for their entire lives, unless there is a spiritual or mental breakthrough of some sort. Just like me and trigonometry. It makes my head hurt to think about it, so I don't, and live without it. Others can't wrap their heads around the notion that other people's actions only affect them if they choose to allow them to. So they carry on as if the location of a building has any bearing whatsoever on their lives. And it does, because they want it to.

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]


It is a location issue and if it had happen at any other point in time rather than right before the midterm elections I would venture to guess that it would not be generating as much debate as it has. But given the current political climate it is being used as fodder by both sides. Just another way of distracting from the real issues…… One side doesn’t want to own up to their ineptness and the other don’t have any productive solutions to the real problems…


This is true. So the proper reaction is to ignore what is clearly a zoning issue in another city in another state, and end this discussion entirely. The only ones who even need to think about it are those who want to indulge their feelings of victimhood by allowing a building to dictate their state of mind. The rest of us don't even need to think about it, as it has zero effect on us.


True enough; but I think for most the point of no return is long gone. Not to mention the media and politicians aren't going to let it drop either. Hopefully I’m wrong....

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by er1016]

 

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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:14 PM
What is so hard to grasp about "Freedom of Religion" I thought it was one of the founding Ideologies of this country.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:14 PM
If bigotry has nothing to do with this project, then it wouldn't even be an issue. If it's just a location issue.....then why is it a location issue?

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:31 PM
quote:
If bigotry has nothing to do with this project, then it wouldn't even be an issue. If it's just a location issue.....then why is it a location issue?
quote:


The answer to the first part of your question is; simply because someone opposes the project doesn't make them a bigot. The is a percentage that are but to quantify all opposition as bigotry is simply not true.

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by er1016]

 

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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:37 PM
All I am saying is people who are against the mosque are expected to be tolerant and understanding. Why is it unreasonable to ask the same of the proponents?

 

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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:42 PM
quote:
I don't have a problem grasping the "freedom of religion". My problem is I asked a simple question and no one wants to answer it. All that's being said is people who are in opposition are bigots......that’s deflecting not an answer.


If it is simply an issue of freedom of religion; why is Nancy Pelosi calling for an investigation into the funding of the opposition? Isn't it just as irrelevant as people wanting a disclosure of the funding sources for the project?

 

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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:45 PM
quote:
I wonder why there is no controversy here? Follow the link for the full story...

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/pentagon-muslims-pray-day-protests/

At Pentagon, Muslims pray every day without protests

By Agence France-Presse
Saturday, August 21st, 2010 -- 8:43 am

But Air Force officer -- who asks not to be named -- tells AFP she worries how families of victims might see it

Without controversy or protests, Muslims kneel in prayer every day at a quiet Pentagon chapel, only steps away from where a hijacked airliner struck the building on September 11, 2001.

The tranquil atmosphere at the Pentagon is a stark contrast to the furor surrounding a planned mosque near Ground Zero in New York, with opponents arguing the proposed Islamic center is an insult to the memory of the 3,000 victims of the 9/11 attacks.

"I've been here almost four years and I've never head of any complaints," US Army spokesman George Wright said of the regular Muslim services.

Families of those killed in the attack on the Pentagon on 9/11 have not raised objections over the Islamic services, he said.


If the Pentagon had totally collapsed and burned to the ground, people might feel differently.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 12:58 PM
quote:
All I am saying is people who are against the mosque are expected to be tolerant and understanding. Why is it unreasonable to ask the same of the proponents?


No it is not unreasonable. New Yorkers have not healed yet. The mosque will cause additional pain and suffering to those who have lost people on that day. The worshippers who go there will face safety concerns by those who are angry and think all Muslims want to blow things up.

Even the word jihad has been stereotyped in the minds of almost all Americans who do not understand all the aspects of jihad. Once someone hears the word jihad, they automatically think oh no, they want to kill us. In some cases this might be true, but jihad itself begins with the individual striving to overcome his own deficiencies in knowledge and religious devotion, then inviting others to Islam, and IF attacked then retaliatory jihad is in order.

Osama believes the religion itself is under attack which warrants immediate aggressive jihad to wipe out other systems of belief including secular law but this is based on an advanced understanding of jihad that the regular people do not have. The short of it is, God's way or no way, God's laws or no laws. That is his burning desire. People will argue about Shariah law because it is not solely based on the Quran which means there could be flaws in it since the sunnah was subject to customs and traditions of peoples over time.

Ultimately, he is correct in thinking that God's laws are superior to mans and are the ones that should be followed. The only variation is in the interpretation of the laws.

When Jesus returns and God's kingdom does come here, God will put an end to secular law. Osama is just trying to do this now, and that's why most people do not understand him and are afraid of him.

Will God establish his laws via the methodology Osama has used? I don't think so, but then again, God uses his own methods to punish or destroy peoples, wind, water, earthquakes. That's what's in his arsenal and we have no defense against that when he unleashes his fury. Can you stop the hail?

Would God have taken down the World Trade Center? Possibly, but he would've used a hurricane.

I also know it has been written that he has spared cities if there was even one righteous person in them, for that person's sake, he would spare the city. Whomever took down the Towers did not know if there were any righteous people in those towers, if there was even one, then they have committed a great sin.

Which is why God says "vengeance is mine" because he knows what we do not. So we are not the ones who should be levying death on anybody, unless of course they attack you, then you can fight back to defend yourself.





[Edited on 8/22/2010 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 01:42 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Still doesnt answer the question; If the Muslim leaders truly expect the American people to believe that they only want to build the mosque in an effort to promote peace and healing; why hasn't one of their leaders stepped up and said; ok in the true sprit of healing and peace we should find another location.





They should not have to, if we truly want to have freedom of religion.



This is how it is: In order to have true freedom, you have to put up with some things that might upset some people.




They might not have to answer the question; however if that is the explanation you are putting forth you should have anticipated the question and have an answer. If you are truly sincere about wanting to promote peace and harmony you first have to understand and respect the culture in which you are working. And be willing to give a little in order to promote peace.. How can you expect tolerance and understanding when you aren’t willing to recuperate?



You are not asking for tolerance and understanding.

You are asking them to give up a freedom.

How tolerant is that of you??



 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 01:57 PM
quote:
quote:
If bigotry has nothing to do with this project, then it wouldn't even be an issue. If it's just a location issue.....then why is it a location issue?
quote:


The answer to the first part of your question is; simply because someone opposes the project doesn't make them a bigot. The is a percentage that are but to quantify all opposition as bigotry is simply not true.

[Edited on 8/22/2010 by er1016]


A question then.....what reason would someone oppose the project that doesn't have a foundation of it being a Muslim project? I honestly can't think of a single one. It's too close to ground zero....people need time to heal....it would be too painful....etc. When you get to the base answer, it's because it's a Muslim venture. If there were any other reasons the zoning board wouldn't have approved the project. People haven't objected to the bars and other stores in the area.......bottom line, it's Muslim.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/22/2010 at 02:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Still doesnt answer the question; If the Muslim leaders truly expect the American people to believe that they only want to build the mosque in an effort to promote peace and healing; why hasn't one of their leaders stepped up and said; ok in the true sprit of healing and peace we should find another location.





They should not have to, if we truly want to have freedom of religion.



This is how it is: In order to have true freedom, you have to put up with some things that might upset some people.




They might not have to answer the question; however if that is the explanation you are putting forth you should have anticipated the question and have an answer. If you are truly sincere about wanting to promote peace and harmony you first have to understand and respect the culture in which you are working. And be willing to give a little in order to promote peace.. How can you expect tolerance and understanding when you aren’t willing to recuperate?



You are not asking for tolerance and understanding.

You are asking them to give up a freedom.

How tolerant is that of you??






By asking someone to move their planed mosque to a different location is denying their freedom? If they were being told; you can’t practice your religion in this country that would be denying freedom of religion. Asking someone to pray on the other side of the street is hardly restricting their freedom. Prime case in point; children in schools are told you can’t have an official moment of prayer but you can have a moment of silence to reflect. Many see this as a restriction of freedom but it is accepted. It’s called compromise, that’s all I’m saying.

 

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