Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Court rules for gun rights, strikes Chicago handgun ban

World Class Peach





Posts: 5822
(5827 all sites)
Registered: 7/4/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 09:23 AM
I have to admit i never thought this would happen but i am really happy it did...

Court rules for gun rights, strikes Chicago handgun ban

In another dramatic victory for firearm owners, the Supreme Court has ruled unconstitutional Chicago, Illinois' 28-year-old strict ban on handgun ownership, a potentially far-reaching case over the ability of state and local governments to enforce limits on weapons.

A 5-4 conservative majority of justices on Monday reiterated its two-year-old conclusion the Constitution gives individuals equal or greater power than states on the issue of possession of certain firearms for self-protection.

"It cannot be doubted that the right to bear arms was regarded as a substantive guarantee, not a prohibition that could be ignored so long as states legislated in an evenhanded manner," wrote Justice Samuel Alito.

The court grounded that right in the due process section of the 14th Amendment. The justices, however, said local jurisdictions still retain the flexibility to preserve some "reasonable" gun-control measures currently in place nationwide.

In dissent, Justice Stephen Breyer predicated far-reaching implications. "Incorporating the right," he wrote, "may change the law in many of the 50 states. Read in the majority's favor, the historical evidence" for the decision "is at most ambiguous."

He was supported by Justices John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor.
Post by: CNN Supreme Court Producer Bill Mears
Filed under: Latest news ē Supreme Court

 

____________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the
Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." -Henry Ford

 
Visit User's Homepage
Replies:

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4772
(4786 all sites)
Registered: 12/5/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 09:31 AM
It isn't like it was actually working anyway, might as well overturn it so otherwise law abiding people aren't breaking the law.

 

____________________
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all". John Maynard Keynes

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 23558
(24060 all sites)
Registered: 1/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 09:46 AM
quote:
It isn't like it was actually working anyway, might as well overturn it so otherwise law abiding people aren't breaking the law.
WORD

As said before, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Maybe now the law abiding general public can arm and defend themselves and criminals might give more thought and pause to victimizing at random.

 

____________________

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13877
(13931 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 09:48 AM
Hey! Them cannabis laws ain't workin' too good, either! Howzabout yankin' them babies!

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 09:51 AM
quote:
I'm not so sure the families of the dozens and dozens of people killed by gun violence in Chicago every single weekend of the summer share your pleasure.


Therein lies the problem. Itís not gun violence. Itís people violence. And just because you make guns illegal, doesnít cut down on the violence from criminal gun ownership. You made the point yourself when talking about the gun violence in Chicago every weekend, where currently they have stringent laws. You think those folks are law abiding gun owners that carry on with violence every weekend? It reminds me of when I lived in Washington DC. All guns were illegal, yet it was the murder capital of the US in the mid-90s, and I can assure you, people were not killing each other with bats.

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 10:08 AM
quote:
So if there's a law on the books, and people are still breaking it, it should be removed. Got it.


Cannabis? Alcohol?

[Edited on 7/1/2010 by jim]

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8384
(8385 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 10:15 AM
The gentleman behind this case - 76 year old Otis McDonald - was on local radio here in Charlotte the other day. You can hear the interview from the following link, its currently about halfway down the page...

http://www.wbt.com/larson/index.aspx

The guy makes a persuasive case for why the police can't ensure his safety in his own home, why laws banning guns have served only to help the criminals, and how he hopes they will now think twice before trying to break into his home again.

The really amazing thing is that this came down to a 5/4 vote in the Supreme Court. The dissent revealed the sad state of affairs on the Court, as it was based entirely on the feelings and emotions of these so-called judges, not on actual laws or the Constitution itself. Its sad that we even had to come to the point of bringing a case like this before the Court, but thank goodness that some common sense still prevails.

Thank you Otis McDonald!

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4772
(4786 all sites)
Registered: 12/5/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 10:20 AM
quote:
Hey! Them cannabis laws ain't workin' too good, either! Howzabout yankin' them babies!


+1

 

____________________
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all". John Maynard Keynes

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4772
(4786 all sites)
Registered: 12/5/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 10:23 AM
quote:
So if there's a law on the books, and people are still breaking it, it should be removed. Got it.


People who otherwise are law abiding, have a right to arm and defend themselves. It was an absurd law to begin with, and obviously the Supreme court agrees. How to address the root cause of the murders of which 90% are gang related, is the real question.

 

____________________
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all". John Maynard Keynes

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 10:27 AM
quote:
The guy makes a persuasive case for why the police can't ensure his safety in his own home, why laws banning guns have served only to help the criminals, and how he hopes they will now think twice before trying to break into his home again.



I have not had a chance to listen, but just from the above post, it reminds me of the case that set precedence in DC for a ban on guns. In that case, two invaders with guns violently and brutally attacked a woman, gang raping her for hours, even though she had called the police twice. Also, in that case it was ruled that the police are not bound legally to protect you in your home. How ironic that the same city which says it canít protect its citizens also prevents those same citizens from protecting themselves.

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11437
(11442 all sites)
Registered: 8/21/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 10:42 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm not so sure the families of the dozens and dozens of people killed by gun violence in Chicago every single weekend of the summer share your pleasure.


Therein lies the problem. Itís not gun violence. Itís people violence. And just because you make guns illegal, doesnít cut down on the violence from criminal gun ownership. You made the point yourself when talking about the gun violence in Chicago every weekend, where currently they have stringent laws. You think those folks are law abiding gun owners that carry on with violence every weekend? It reminds me of when I lived in Washington DC. All guns were illegal, yet it was the murder capital of the US in the mid-90s, and I can assure you, people were not killing each other with bats.


The above logic only works if you assume things can never get worse than current levels of violence. I think the same thing when I hear people saying the stimulus is not working because unemployment remains at 10%. It is possible that w/o the stimulus, things could have gotten exponentially worse, say 25% unemployment.

Call me a pessimist, but things can always be worse. It does not mean you give up when things are merely bad.

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8384
(8385 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 10:58 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm not so sure the families of the dozens and dozens of people killed by gun violence in Chicago every single weekend of the summer share your pleasure.


Therein lies the problem. Itís not gun violence. Itís people violence. And just because you make guns illegal, doesnít cut down on the violence from criminal gun ownership. You made the point yourself when talking about the gun violence in Chicago every weekend, where currently they have stringent laws. You think those folks are law abiding gun owners that carry on with violence every weekend? It reminds me of when I lived in Washington DC. All guns were illegal, yet it was the murder capital of the US in the mid-90s, and I can assure you, people were not killing each other with bats.


The above logic only works if you assume things can never get worse than current levels of violence. I think the same thing when I hear people saying the stimulus is not working because unemployment remains at 10%. It is possible that w/o the stimulus, things could have gotten exponentially worse, say 25% unemployment.

Call me a pessimist, but things can always be worse. It does not mean you give up when things are merely bad.
But if things get worse - and I assume you're refering to the criminal use of violence - isn't that more of a reason to ensure law-abiding citizens have the right of protecting themselves?

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20943
(20942 all sites)
Registered: 6/15/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 11:08 AM
quote:
So if there's a law on the books, and people are still breaking it, it should be removed. Got it.


Good police work is the key to controlling violence, not bans. New York City over the last 15 years is a good example.

 

____________________

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11437
(11442 all sites)
Registered: 8/21/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 11:12 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm not so sure the families of the dozens and dozens of people killed by gun violence in Chicago every single weekend of the summer share your pleasure.


Therein lies the problem. Itís not gun violence. Itís people violence. And just because you make guns illegal, doesnít cut down on the violence from criminal gun ownership. You made the point yourself when talking about the gun violence in Chicago every weekend, where currently they have stringent laws. You think those folks are law abiding gun owners that carry on with violence every weekend? It reminds me of when I lived in Washington DC. All guns were illegal, yet it was the murder capital of the US in the mid-90s, and I can assure you, people were not killing each other with bats.


The above logic only works if you assume things can never get worse than current levels of violence. I think the same thing when I hear people saying the stimulus is not working because unemployment remains at 10%. It is possible that w/o the stimulus, things could have gotten exponentially worse, say 25% unemployment.

Call me a pessimist, but things can always be worse. It does not mean you give up when things are merely bad.
But if things get worse - and I assume you're refering to the criminal use of violence - isn't that more of a reason to ensure law-abiding citizens have the right of protecting themselves?


A lot of the gun violence is perpetrated by the once law-abiding. A spurned lover or some kid screwing around w/ dad's gun, or some fool who fires into the air on the 4th of July. I don't know what the answer is, or what is reasonable, but it makes me sick every time some innocent is cut down. The cowboy who rides to the rescue happens, but so do lightning strikes.

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8384
(8385 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 12:01 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
So if there's a law on the books, and people are still breaking it, it should be removed. Got it.
Good police work is the key to controlling violence, not bans. New York City over the last 15 years is a good example.
Yes, good police work combined with the strictest gun laws in the nation.

How do you all think the Chicago PD feels about the Supreme Court's decision?
With swelling budget deficits at every level of govt, our future is likely one of decreased police resources and manpower. The ability of the law abiding to counter violence directed toward them and their property looks to be more necessary in the future, unfortunate as that prospect appears.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 82650
(83009 all sites)
Registered: 4/16/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 12:30 PM
quote:
Everyone has the right to protect themselves. But unless you're living in Kandahar or Gaza, you don't need a gun for protection. Anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves; you're not in any way safer with a gun in your house or on your hip. You cite these single examples of someone defending themselves against a home invasion, or the failure of the police to respond in that single incident in DC 15 years ago. Do I even need to point out that for each one of these incidents, there are hundreds if not thousands of other occurrences in which one citizen exercising his 2nd Amendment right ends up in the death of other innocent civilians? I guess 25 or 50 deaths in Chicago every weekend is just the cost of doing business for the gun-clinging crowd. But at least some guy 2000 miles away from the South Side can still enjoy their false sense of security knowing that they have that pistol under their pillow.


X2

Not to self: Stay out of Chicago.

 

____________________
RIP Cindy Fischer
RIP Hugh Duty
RIP John Ott

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 12:31 PM
quote:
They now ill have thousands of untrained vigilantes to help them do their job.


Why do you assume law abiding gun owners are untrained (I am referring to being trained with a gun and not in police work), and that all lawful gun owners will all of a sudden become a de facto police force? I own guns, and I donít go out and patrol the streets, nor do most law abiding gun owners.

quote:
But unless you're living in Kandahar or Gaza, you don't need a gun for protection.


But in the next breath you mention the warzone that are the streets of Chicago where there are 25 or 50 deaths a weekend. That sounds like more than Kandhar or Gaza in a weekend. And speaking of Gaza, you want to see gun control. Look who throws rocks and look who has weapons. Now that is gun control.

I am also curious with regard to the stat abotu weekends in Chicago. Do you happen to know how many of these deaths are the result of illegal weapons and/or how much is due to gang violence, as opposed to what Brock mentioned? At the end of the day, we can make guns illegal, but itís not going to get rid of the behavioral/people problem. I feel like Archie Bunker when saying this, but people will still kill each other without guns. Does a gun make it more efficient? Yes. I donít think we will ever see eye to eye on this, but I firmly believe that if you outlaw guns, it wonít change a thing. Just look at the most recent stats in NYC, a city where they have very stringent gun laws. Murders are up this year and more people have been shot this year. I donít view that as a gun thing. I view that as people being fíed up thing. I feel that blaming the gun is lifting the responsibility from the individual. Should we outlaw booze because of drunk drivers?

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8384
(8385 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 12:35 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
So if there's a law on the books, and people are still breaking it, it should be removed. Got it.
Good police work is the key to controlling violence, not bans. New York City over the last 15 years is a good example.
Yes, good police work combined with the strictest gun laws in the nation.

How do you all think the Chicago PD feels about the Supreme Court's decision?
With swelling budget deficits at every level of govt, our future is likely one of decreased police resources and manpower. The ability of the law abiding to counter violence directed toward them and their property looks to be more necessary in the future, unfortunate as that prospect appears.
Ah yes, the "Road Warrior" defense. I'm not buying it.
You should listen to the interview with Otis McDonald. Not exactly a road warrior. Perhaps your attitude would change if your home was broken into multiple times, or you were the victim of criminal gun violence, as he has been.

There's another way to address this. How about automatic life in prison for any criminal who brings a gun into any criminal event, whether its used or not? How about the death penalty for any criminal who discharges their gun during the commission of a crime? Obviously, bringing a gun along to commit a crime is an act of premeditated violence. They felt strongly enough about achieving their aims that taking another's life was potentially part of the plan. How about making the penalties for criminal acts while possessing of a gun utterly draconian so that few would risk it?

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 12:50 PM
quote:
There's another way to address this. How about automatic life in prison for any criminal who brings a gun into any criminal event, whether its used or not? How about the death penalty for any criminal who discharges their gun during the commission of a crime? Obviously, bringing a gun along to commit a crime is an act of premeditated violence. They felt strongly enough about achieving their aims that taking another's life was potentially part of the plan. How about making the penalties for criminal acts while possessing of a gun utterly draconian so that few would risk it?


Unfortunately, I donít think that would deter people either. Perhaps it would deter future violence from that individual, but I donít think it would deter other people. I think we have to remember the type of people that are willing to take another personís life for their own gain. They donít give a hoot if they land in prison for life. In some circles, life in prison gets you respect, and it makes you cool.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9121
(25070 all sites)
Registered: 10/30/2010
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 01:21 PM
I can recognize a threat, and I know how to shoot all types of firearms. I enjoy shooting for recreation, too. I have a carry permit, and frequently do so. I'm not apologizing to anyone.

 

____________________

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5822
(5827 all sites)
Registered: 7/4/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 01:39 PM
quote:
So if there's a law on the books, and people are still breaking it, it should be removed. Got it.


The supreme court says they(chicago) had no right to make that law making it invalid point being the second ammendment is more important than and has precedence over state law.. which is the way it was intended the court got it right..

 

____________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the

Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." -Henry Ford

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 01:47 PM
quote:
Part of police training is when to recognize a threat and when to fire or not fire a gun.





I think that is part of the problem Otie. Many people who own guns, even law abiding people, are not trained properly, and they have seen too many movies, and/or are just plain careless or stupid. My brother actually sells live fire tactical training systems to special ops, swat teams, police forces, etc. I went and tried the system last year. They can recreate the stress of a situation by making the room hotter or colder, they have police rollers going in the room with sirens blaring, people on the screen yelling and screaming at you, they can pump in fog and mist, etc. The only thing they canít do is recreate smell. In this case, the training is not really about recognizing a threat, itís about how to deal with the stress of the situation. I think recognizing a threat is the relatively easy part, what happens next is the hard part. After taking part in this exercise, I realized that most people have no idea what cops go through, particularly in a gunfight. Or they have no idea what the stress would be if someone broke into their home and threatened their life. Most NYPD gunfights happen within a 7 foot range, which is where we stood when firing at the screen. That is close, but itís also really difficult to hit a target from that range when the stress of the moment is upon you.

That is why if you really want to protect yourself in your home, use a shotgun. Psychologically, its unnerving for an intruder to hear a round sliding into the chamber (they might just run after that), and second, if you miss, you get some shot in your wall. If you use a .357 and miss, you shoot the wall, and your neighbor in the house next door. You see, I am a safety conscience gun owner!!

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5822
(5827 all sites)
Registered: 7/4/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 01:47 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
So if there's a law on the books, and people are still breaking it, it should be removed. Got it.
Good police work is the key to controlling violence, not bans. New York City over the last 15 years is a good example.
Yes, good police work combined with the strictest gun laws in the nation.

How do you all think the Chicago PD feels about the Supreme Court's decision?
With swelling budget deficits at every level of govt, our future is likely one of decreased police resources and manpower. The ability of the law abiding to counter violence directed toward them and their property looks to be more necessary in the future, unfortunate as that prospect appears.


Ah yes, the "Road Warrior" defense. I'm not buying it.


You don't buy anything unless it is a copy of Kumbye ya, you really are clueless to the rest of the country and only speak about your backyard well if it was not such a cesspool of violence and crime this subject would not even come up.. If for one min. you really think a person with a gun is not in a good position to protect themselves from a home invader try invading someones house who has a gun, let me know how that works out for you...

 

____________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the

Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." -Henry Ford

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29713
(29846 all sites)
Registered: 12/13/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 02:29 PM
The problem I have (well, one of them anyway) with having a gun to protect my house is that I have a 9 year old daughter. I'd want that gun stored in a safe place - unloaded and in a safe. Certainly wouldn't want my daughter to get a hold of the gun...there's waaaay too many accidents out there.

So, the gun's nice and safe in a safe. My home is then broken into. Even if it only takes me a few minutes to run to the safe and load the gun ***bam*** I'm dead and my house is robbed anyway...not much of a deterrent, really...

 

____________________
Your neighborhood brewery and tap house - yes! we're now open! Like us on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/FranklinStreetBrewing

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6441
(8686 all sites)
Registered: 12/12/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2010 at 02:35 PM
quote:
The problem I have (well, one of them anyway) with having a gun to protect my house is that I have a 9 year old daughter. I'd want that gun stored in a safe place - unloaded and in a safe. Certainly wouldn't want my daughter to get a hold of the gun...there's waaaay too many accidents out there.

So, the gun's nice and safe in a safe. My home is then broken into. Even if it only takes me a few minutes to run to the safe and load the gun ***bam*** I'm dead and my house is robbed anyway...not much of a deterrent, really...
You have to keep it loaded but locked in a gunsafe beside your bed. At least that's what my nutso friend does.

 

____________________
This one goes to eleven...

 
<<  1    2  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software

Privacy | Terms of Service | Report Infringement | Personal Data Management | Contact Us
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com