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Author: Subject: Really?

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 03:33 PM
I watched this two or three times. Trying to ignore my first reaction, I attempted to give her the benefit of the doubt, thinking that this is just a HUGE gaff. I wonder why she didn't bring up this idea/concept when they were pushing so hard to get the healthcare bill passed?

Frankly, I can't see how anyone can watch this and honestly excuse her comments as gaffish or simply unplanned. Speaking before a crowd, her comments were certainly planned and premeditated. If these are Nancy Pelosi's real motives, ideas and opinions, then we have some serious problems.

I'd love to quit my job and follow my hobby with a view to developing my creative side. I'm more of a left-brained kind of person, so it would probably take a lifetime for me to develop a creative skill to use as a career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRY7Wvim8-8



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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:00 PM
Actually, I can see where she is coming from. Part of a much bigger picture, and should be taken in that context.

[Edited on 5/17/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:15 PM
quote:
Actually, I can see where she is coming from. Part of a much bigger picture, and should be taken in that context.

[Edited on 5/17/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]


I want to understand what you're saying here. What is this "bigger picture?" How can it be okay to encourage people to quit working, pursue their hobbies, and rest comfortably on the fact that working Americans are footing the bill for their healthcare? She is flat out encouraging people to quit working.

IMO, encouraging people to quit working - leading to fewer people to pay that bill - is just insanity.



Mike

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:18 PM
quote:
Actually, I can see where she is coming from. Part of a much bigger picture, and should be taken in that context.

[Edited on 5/17/2010 by SantaCruzBluz]


Not being a smart ass here, explain the bigger picture you see this being ok in or part of SCB.
It sounds like she is saying.....like some of us fear,....don't worry the government will take care of you. i see that as the wrong attitude.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:23 PM
Comes down to a simple matter of perspective, doesn't it?

Using taxpayer dollars to spread war and death throughout the world is not seen as a big deal at all to many.

Usually, the same people that could care less about that bristle at any notion at all of spending a lot less than we do on war and death in order to help out each other in our own country.

Perspective.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:35 PM
I don't know that she is telling people to quit their jobs and not work. There are many, many people in this country who only work at the job they hate because the job provides them with health insurance. I've already explained why I think the whole system is a cash cow for the insurance industry. In a progressive society, the health care system would be much like criminal justice or public utilities. It would be a basic function of our society, paid for by out collective wealth, how ever we decided to collect it. Nobody would have to work at something they hated because that was how they were able to feed the health care cash cow. People would be free to pursue occupations they were passionate about. That ultimately advances both the person and the society.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:38 PM
quote:
Comes down to a simple matter of perspective, doesn't it?

Using taxpayer dollars to spread war and death throughout the world is not seen as a big deal at all to many.

Usually, the same people that could care less about that bristle at any notion at all of spending a lot less than we do on war and death in order to help out each other in our own country.

Perspective.


That's funny because I hadn't even given "war and death" a thought when it comes to this topic; and that's strange, because there are several of us here who are very pro-death and pro-war!!! This subject has nothing to do with "death and war." Nice stab at a partisan response, though (at least that's how I read it). I see this as strictly an economic and jobs issue, again - having zip to do with war, and Nancy Pelosi encouraging people to be freeloaders, or at the very least, causing people to be disinclined to work.


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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:39 PM
quote:
I don't know that she is telling people to quit their jobs and not work. There are many, many people in this country who only work at the job they hate because the job provides them with health insurance. I've already explained why I think the whole system is a cash cow for the insurance industry. In a progressive society, the health care system would be much like criminal justice or public utilities. It would be a basic function of our society, paid for by out collective wealth, how ever we decided to collect it. Nobody would have to work at something they hated because that was how they were able to feed the health care cash cow. People would be free to pursue occupations they were passionate about. That ultimately advances both the person and the society.



If that wealth were truly collective, then I might be inclined to agree.



Mike

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:43 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't know that she is telling people to quit their jobs and not work. There are many, many people in this country who only work at the job they hate because the job provides them with health insurance. I've already explained why I think the whole system is a cash cow for the insurance industry. In a progressive society, the health care system would be much like criminal justice or public utilities. It would be a basic function of our society, paid for by out collective wealth, how ever we decided to collect it. Nobody would have to work at something they hated because that was how they were able to feed the health care cash cow. People would be free to pursue occupations they were passionate about. That ultimately advances both the person and the society.



If that wealth were truly collective, then I might be inclined to agree.



Mike


Then make it so. I think a whole lot of people we think are lazy just hate their jobs. If they were doing something they loved, they might be a different person.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 04:45 PM
I have nothing to do with it. I pay my fair share, and then some. The inference my comment was meant to relay is that our nation's "collective wealth" comes only from a portion of the population.

I would go a step further by suggesting that many people will never be able to work in a job that they truly love. Some people don't have the skills. I might want to be an astronaut, but I don't have the skills to do that. As well, society needs its ditch diggers, slaughter-house workers, janitors, etc... I have never met anyone who grew up wanting to pursue a career in one of those fields.


Mike

[Edited on 5/17/2010 by Mike]

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 05:00 PM
Wow. Its pretty obvious what she is alluding to...that coverage will be there if someone decides to pursue their dreams. That was part of the point of having universal healthcare. She isnt encouraging anyone to quit their jobs, she is saying that if they do they will have health care thanks to the bill.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 05:02 PM
quote:
Wow. Its pretty obvious what she is alluding to...that coverage will be there if someone decides to pursue their dreams. That was part of the point of having universal healthcare. She isnt encouraging anyone to quit their jobs, she is saying that if they do they will have health care thanks to the bill.


I guess there are several of us who see/hear it differently. I also say "Wow" when I listen to this, but for different reasons.



Mike

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 05:19 PM
quote:
quote:
Wow. Its pretty obvious what she is alluding to...that coverage will be there if someone decides to pursue their dreams. That was part of the point of having universal healthcare. She isnt encouraging anyone to quit their jobs, she is saying that if they do they will have health care thanks to the bill.


I guess there are several of us who see/hear it differently. I also say "Wow" when I listen to this, but for different reasons.



Mike


My "wow" was in regards to how easily some people can take what she said and make it into something entirely different than what she said.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 06:01 PM
This makes perfect sense to me ... considering the source. Pelosi is so disconnected from the reality of average America - or most things going on in America - that I'm sure she thinks this is a dandy option for lots of folks. Between living in political fantasy land within the beltway, globe trotting on govt jets, or hanging with fellow limousine liberals in Cali, its been a long time since she rubbed up against the conditions faced by most in this country.

The real lie is that her "vision" will never transpire. Long before we get to anything resembling a European-style universal care system, the country will be bankrupt. Or - God willing - we will have awakened from the delusions of entitlement thinking and charted a new course back to some common sense. The simple truth is that we can't afford to implement her Utopian system, and never will.

If she really wanted to assist the average person achieve their dreams, she'd help dismantle some of the voracious black-hole that is our own Federal govt. The dream of America is the opportunity to better one's self, not some long list of entitlement guarantees. The single greatest obstacle to re-igniting the creation of opportunity has now become our own govt.

But on Planet Pelosi, I'm sure they believe something far different.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 06:05 PM
quote:
The single greatest obstacle to re-igniting the creation of opportunity has now become our own govt.




Maybe on your planet. On mine things like poverty seem to play a factor as well.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 06:11 PM
It is a pro-entrepreneurial vision. People are unable to quit their jobs to pursue their dream because they may have a pre-existing condition (or just have a condition and quitting to pursue their dream would have stopped them in their tracks. The pre is redundant, LOL).

Working people will pay for their insurance. People have to work, and if they can start their own business doing what they love and not have to worry about losing insurance for their families, then what is the issue, Mike?

Being poor is not something people want, for the most part. Insurance is expensive and people will fight like mad to bring in enough money to insure their families are covered. There are people who will always try to game the system, but it is not the vast majority of the people I know, nor the vast majority of Americans, who will work their asses off for pittance, anyway.

As flawed as this health care bill is, it will still make us a stronger nation. People will learn if they are entrepreneurial or not real quick. The market is brutal and making money is not easy, ever. You are either busting ass for someone else or yourself, and for most, no Porsche's, either way. But you can have a decent life with the right structure in place, and take calculated risks to reach for the brass ring, as it were. I think that is a vision that needs to be embraced as good for all Americans. It is always about perception, I guess. This is a very Pro-Entrepreneur, Pro-Small Business policy.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 06:15 PM
quote:
quote:
Comes down to a simple matter of perspective, doesn't it?

Using taxpayer dollars to spread war and death throughout the world is not seen as a big deal at all to many.

Usually, the same people that could care less about that bristle at any notion at all of spending a lot less than we do on war and death in order to help out each other in our own country.

Perspective.


That's funny because I hadn't even given "war and death" a thought when it comes to this topic; and that's strange, because there are several of us here who are very pro-death and pro-war!!! This subject has nothing to do with "death and war." Nice stab at a partisan response, though (at least that's how I read it). I see this as strictly an economic and jobs issue, again - having zip to do with war, and Nancy Pelosi encouraging people to be freeloaders, or at the very least, causing people to be disinclined to work.


Mike

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Funny how the response is 'partisan' in your pov. How could the war spending not be considered when doing something positive for our own citizens. Do you realize how far behing the USA is when compared to the other industrialized nations when it comes to healthcare? Everyone is affected by both kinds of spending.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 06:19 PM
I agree that "pursuing your dream" doesn't necessarily mean a non income producing hobby. It can mean starting a business. Anything that encourages people to take chances to expand the economy is good as far as I am concerned.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 07:04 PM
quote:
quote:
The single greatest obstacle to re-igniting the creation of opportunity has now become our own govt.
Maybe on your planet. On mine things like poverty seem to play a factor as well.
The two go hand-in-hand SCB. Mountains of regulations and red-tape squash average people from enacting their dreams. Add to that a govt which stands first in line to gobble up available credit, and what chance does the little guy have of making it? Add to that a tax system that encourages consumption instead of savings and investment, and again, it's tough for the little guy to get started.

Sure enough, some still do. And I don't deny that success is still possible in America. But where the window of opportunity used to be wide, its now far more narrow.

Consider your thoughts from last week about having a school or training up in the mountains near you to take inner city kids and give them some construction training and job prep. What a great idea and I applaud your dream. But imagine the reality of making that happen...

Before the first nail is driven, you'd have such a stack of regulation to comply with, you'd be buried for years sorting through it all. Insurance would be astronomical. You'd probably have to have a nurse or health care professional on staff. You'd likely need a good relationship with some lawyers, because some kid with a splinter will inevitably have some parents wanting to sue. You'd likely have to prove an affirmative action and minority vendor plan is in place. You'd have to supply handicap access to everything. Psychological counseling would probably need to be available given the kids backgrounds, and if anyone injures themselves. Considering you can't discriminate based on gender, there's gotta be a mountain of gender equality conditions you'd have to comply with. Security would have to be considered, both as a safety measure and to protect school resources from disappearing. Nutritional experts would have to be involved to make sure the kids ate right. Are they staying overnight? Holy cow, can you imagine all the conditions you'd have to comply with for THAT! Yikes!

And these are only the few things I can think of off the top of my head. Being its CA, there's probably whole libraries filled with more regs and conditions than we could ever imagine.

I'm not saying that some of this isn't important. And we haven't even touched on things like tax status, or access to start-up capital. But it's sure become a lot harder to expand or start a business here than it used to be. The employment levels, and new business start-up levels, certainly reflect some of that.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 07:21 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wow. Its pretty obvious what she is alluding to...that coverage will be there if someone decides to pursue their dreams. That was part of the point of having universal healthcare. She isnt encouraging anyone to quit their jobs, she is saying that if they do they will have health care thanks to the bill.


I guess there are several of us who see/hear it differently. I also say "Wow" when I listen to this, but for different reasons.



Mike


My "wow" was in regards to how easily some people can take what she said and make it into something entirely different than what she said.


Like Death and War?

To Mike's point, how many people work at what they truly love? Not many, sad part of the life equation is that we make the best of what we have and go with it.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 07:23 PM
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This makes perfect sense to me ... considering the source. Pelosi is so disconnected from the reality of average America - or most things going on in America - that I'm sure she thinks this is a dandy option for lots of folks. Between living in political fantasy land within the beltway, globe trotting on govt jets, or hanging with fellow limousine liberals in Cali, its been a long time since she rubbed up against the conditions faced by most in this country.

The real lie is that her "vision" will never transpire. Long before we get to anything resembling a European-style universal care system, the country will be bankrupt. Or - God willing - we will have awakened from the delusions of entitlement thinking and charted a new course back to some common sense. The simple truth is that we can't afford to implement her Utopian system, and never will.

If she really wanted to assist the average person achieve their dreams, she'd help dismantle some of the voracious black-hole that is our own Federal govt. The dream of America is the opportunity to better one's self, not some long list of entitlement guarantees. The single greatest obstacle to re-igniting the creation of opportunity has now become our own govt.

But on Planet Pelosi, I'm sure they believe something far different.


I'm thinking she didn't make these comments at CPAC, prolly at a place that her views are embraced.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 07:36 PM
quote:
It is a pro-entrepreneurial vision. People are unable to quit their jobs to pursue their dream because they may have a pre-existing condition (or just have a condition and quitting to pursue their dream would have stopped them in their tracks. The pre is redundant, LOL).

Working people will pay for their insurance. People have to work, and if they can start their own business doing what they love and not have to worry about losing insurance for their families, then what is the issue, Mike?

Being poor is not something people want, for the most part. Insurance is expensive and people will fight like mad to bring in enough money to insure their families are covered. There are people who will always try to game the system, but it is not the vast majority of the people I know, nor the vast majority of Americans, who will work their asses off for pittance, anyway.

As flawed as this health care bill is, it will still make us a stronger nation. People will learn if they are entrepreneurial or not real quick. The market is brutal and making money is not easy, ever. You are either busting ass for someone else or yourself, and for most, no Porsche's, either way. But you can have a decent life with the right structure in place, and take calculated risks to reach for the brass ring, as it were. I think that is a vision that needs to be embraced as good for all Americans. It is always about perception, I guess. This is a very Pro-Entrepreneur, Pro-Small Business policy.



Extremely well said. Ive got my own small business right now and its not doing much mostly because Ive not pursued it due to time contraints, but my goal is to be able to retire in about 4-5 years and have this income to supplement me.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 07:38 PM
Musicians deserve to get medical treatment as much as the next guy but 99% of them can't afford insurance. I don't see how this bill will help. Too bad Canadian style single payer was 'off the table' from the start.
 

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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 08:46 PM
I think the key point Pelosi fails to mention is the cost. She makes it sound like care will be universal and free. It may be available, and certain restraints of the past may now be lifted, but that will be reflected in the costs - as they will do nothing but go up.

Just look at MA. Their plan has much in common with the new Obamacare structure. They now have the highest health costs in the nation.

So all those musicians may be able to get coverage. But affording it? That's another matter entirely.

 

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so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/17/2010 at 08:47 PM
quote:
quote:
Comes down to a simple matter of perspective, doesn't it?

Using taxpayer dollars to spread war and death throughout the world is not seen as a big deal at all to many.

Usually, the same people that could care less about that bristle at any notion at all of spending a lot less than we do on war and death in order to help out each other in our own country.

Perspective.


That's funny because I hadn't even given "war and death" a thought when it comes to this topic; and that's strange, because there are several of us here who are very pro-death and pro-war!!! This subject has nothing to do with "death and war." Nice stab at a partisan response, though (at least that's how I read it). I see this as strictly an economic and jobs issue, again - having zip to do with war, and Nancy Pelosi encouraging people to be freeloaders, or at the very least, causing people to be disinclined to work.


Mike


All I was saying is that it comes down to how people view how the government should spend taxpayer money. You said it yourself...you don't want to foot the bill for the healthcare of fellow citizens. I don't want to foot the bill for war and death. Perspective.

Besides, she was talking to musicians. Like they need motivation to avoid responsbility, anyway.

 

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